I was going to make a long, wordy post but instead I'm going to make this shorter. There are many raiders who are supporting the endgame community and training players- trying to keep people in game and without them, I'd have immediately have stopped playing after hitting a referral link in November instead of falling to inevitability and what ended up being my final straw, learning a new role in a HM wasn't a bad note today and was the one bright spot.

Instead of rewards and bonuses for clearing content with new players which haven't cleared it, per legacy- it's all on them. They put so much effort in and certainly aren't cheering the new gearing system where you can get 252 drops from an SM boss easier than Soa. They get the blame for the Ossus grind the 'devs' are responsible for, the botched gearing system pitting PvP against PvE which is Bioware's fault alone.

The endgame community as a whole has kept this game alive and my point is those who run Ops deserve better than to get blamed for the state and direction of the game and the constant dev issues. You give Bioware a pass every time you do that.

Addendum: You may not have my stuff. It will be useless in 6.0 or vanish with my characters when the game dies first.

They get the blame for the Ossus grind the 'devs' are responsible for, the botched gearing system pitting PvP against PvE which is Bioware's fault alone.

 

The endgame community as a whole has kept this game alive and my point is those who run Ops deserve better than to get blamed for the state and direction of the game and the constant dev issues. You give Bioware a pass every time you do that.

.

Here's the thing. At various times pvp players have been blamed for unpopular changes made to the game, and at other times solo/casual players have also been blamed for unpopular changes made to the game. All of those changes should also have been put squarely on Bioware's shoulders. It does indeed suck that your group is now the target of ire, and they do deserve better, just like the pvpers deserved better and the solo/casual players deserved better. People need to accept that the developers are the ones making all of the decisions and they need to put the blame where it belongs.

However, it's not just the endgame community keeping this game alive. They are undoubtedly a big part of it, but just a part. Singling them out only continues the trend of fragmenting our community.

I feel your pain and sorry that you (like many of us) now find the game boring and just an endless grindfest for no real reason, I agree with all you say except

The endgame community as a whole has kept this game alive

I would guess its the casual players who make up the vast majority of the player base left in the game who are keeping this alive, its not the content played by any person that is relevant its cash coming in.

Many like me have limited time to play but lots of spare cash (I work hard and run my own business), what does my son want for prezzys? a skate board? X box games? nope he wants in game items for the platforms he plays and that is what keeps the fringe games like this going.

Easy really, put limited resources on a stable platform = low cost, refresh the shop window (CM) and keep a steady flow of folding coming in for little to no effort.

in the immortal words of Metallica - Sad but true.

Be safe

I agree with you, Ops players do deserve more. But they are not the only players who deserve more. The entire playerbase no matter what niche they tend to belong in deserve better.

PVP players deserve better.

Ops players deserve better.

FP players deserve better.

Storymode players deserve better.

GSF players deserve better.

The game has beeen neglected particularly over the last 2 years, and there's not one part of the game that hasn't regressed thanks to poor mismanagement and/or apathy on BW's behalf.

I would guess its the casual players who make up the vast majority of the player base left in the game who are keeping this alive, its not the content played by any person that is relevant its cash coming in.

Many like me have limited time to play but lots of spare cash (I work hard and run my own business), what does my son want for prezzys? a skate board? X box games? nope he wants in game items for the platforms he plays and that is what keeps the fringe games like this going.

Easy really, put limited resources on a stable platform = low cost, refresh the shop window (CM) and keep a steady flow of folding coming in for little to no effort.

in the immortal words of Metallica - Sad but true.

Bleh. Stop trying to make me uninstall.

Here's the thing. At various times pvp players have been blamed for unpopular changes made to the game, and at other times solo/casual players have also been blamed for unpopular changes made to the game. All of those changes should also have been put squarely on Bioware's shoulders. It does indeed suck that your group is now the target of ire, and they do deserve better, just like the pvpers deserved better and the solo/casual players deserved better. People need to accept that the developers are the ones making all of the decisions and they need to put the blame where it belongs.

 

However, it's not just the endgame community keeping this game alive. They are undoubtedly a big part of it, but just a part. Singling them out only continues the trend of fragmenting our community.

Oh boy, I agree with all this, especially that last part. Because a common thought among all these persecuted groups is "we're the ones that's keeping this game alive." Like you'd think they'd have some critical thinking to notice that the people outside their bubble are saying the same thing and that their argument for primacy is completely subjective.

Yes, OP, you deserve better, and no you aren't solely keeping this game alive. Keep your ego in check.

I don't understand that this grind is our ops players fault? This is purely for the solo players who cries for the BiS gear that THEY DON'T NEED. Pvp players doesn't need BiS gear(pvp exusulcive gear) , casuals doesn't need BiS gear, role players doesn't need BiS gear. And they shouldn't get the BiS gear. You should only get the BiS gear via nightmare. That's it.

One of the reason this game is going under since the start, they never ever ever listened to the raid community. They listened the pvp ers and destroyed the classes. They listened the casuals and dumbed down all of the game. I mean people even making forums that asking how can the heroics 4 is not soloable. Da'h its H4! (BTW it's totally soloable). They listened the Story driven mmo ers and killed the story. (mess with 3rd faction, pokemon componions, eternal empire nonsense). Except for raider community everyone has a voice.

NiM raids has to be highest gear and reward possible in every game. Even if it means there is only %1 of player base is getting the rewards.

There should be exulsive reward for ranked pvp as well. You should always try to target otoku. These people will grind, make content, stream, make guides, and will increase the population of the game in the end. That the flavour of the month players.

I don't understand that this grind is our ops players fault? This is purely for the solo players who cries for the BiS gear that THEY DON'T NEED.

I'd rather put the blame where it ought to be placed, on BW. Don't blame the players for 5.0+, let's not be shortsighted and petty. I never understand this perspective by some players.

BW would love us to have discussions solely blaming one group of player or another for the unfavorable changes they make for the game so they can avoid all responsibility for their poor decisions.

I'd rather put the blame where it ought to be placed, on BW. Don't blame the players for 5.0+, let's not be shortsighted and petty. I never understand this perspective by some players.

 

BW would love us to have discussions solely blaming one group of player or another for the unfavorable changes they make for the game so they can avoid all responsibility for their poor decisions.

I second this opinion

I agree with you, Ops players do deserve more. But they are not the only players who deserve more. The entire playerbase no matter what niche they tend to belong in deserve better.

 

PVP players deserve better.

 

Ops players deserve better.

 

FP players deserve better.

 

Storymode players deserve better.

 

GSF players deserve better.

 

The game has beeen neglected particularly over the last 2 years, and there's not one part of the game that hasn't regressed thanks to poor mismanagement and/or apathy on BW's behalf.

All of the above

I'd rather put the blame where it ought to be placed, on BW. Don't blame the players for 5.0+, let's not be shortsighted and petty. I never understand this perspective by some players.

 

BW would love us to have discussions solely blaming one group of player or another for the unfavorable changes they make for the game so they can avoid all responsibility for their poor decisions.

Theyve been doing it since the game launched because they refuse to communicate themselves. If they let the community fight each other it deflects the blame for their piss poor decisions that have nothing to with other parts of the community

I'd rather put the blame where it ought to be placed, on BW. Don't blame the players for 5.0+, let's not be shortsighted and petty. I never understand this perspective by some players.

 

BW would love us to have discussions solely blaming one group of player or another for the unfavorable changes they make for the game so they can avoid all responsibility for their poor decisions.

I do. You said it - they're short-sighted and petty. That explains their perspective. They're also overwhelmingly convinced of their own importance to the game survival and equally convinced of everyone else's unimportance. Not just raiders, every niche says the same thing.

It's less clear, however, that it's BW's poor community management skills that's to blame for other players' inability to think and reflect dispassionately. I think I would blame their spotty education, not their videogame company.

They're also overwhelmingly convinced of their own importance to the game survival and equally convinced of everyone else's unimportance. Not just raiders, every niche says the same thing.

Yeah that's true. Used to be young players/kids said stuff like this but anymore it seems common for adults to think this way. I could excuse someone if they are a child, because children tend to have this selfish mentality but for adults to carry on this way makes me think we as people are regressing intellectually.

I'd rather put the blame where it ought to be placed, on BW. Don't blame the players for 5.0+, let's not be shortsighted and petty. I never understand this perspective by some players.

If only we had been nicer Lhancelot...if only we were kinder...it's our fault, not theirs...we set the tone and we're the reason we can't have nice things. Bioware resents us...we need to apologize, all of us do, for being mean to them...

When i first started posting here, I was nice about things. Years of neglect, being ignored despite having valid points, and utter lack of communication brought on the sarcastic jerk.

Its telling that I've gotten 2 responses from musco... both times when I was bring a sarcastic jerk. Never once have i heard anything from them when i was trying to be constructive. Then they apparently get all hurt when that neglect leads to insults of sarcasm.

When i first started posting here, I was nice about things. Years of neglect, being ignored despite having valid points, and utter lack of communication brought on the sarcastic jerk.

 

Its telling that I've gotten 2 responses from musco... both times when I was bring a sarcastic jerk. Never once have i heard anything from them when i was trying to be constructive. Then they apparently get all hurt when that neglect leads to insults of sarcasm.

I was 100% being sarcastic They've failed at communication since they launched the game. It's always promised to be better, but it never is. The thing is, we'd probably accept many of the crappy things they do (CXP) if we knew some of the reasoning behind such craptastic choices...it's a bed they've made for themselves...they get to lay in it.

I agree with you, Ops players do deserve more. But they are not the only players who deserve more. The entire playerbase no matter what niche they tend to belong in deserve better.

 

PVP players deserve better.

 

Ops players deserve better.

 

FP players deserve better.

 

Storymode players deserve better.

 

GSF players deserve better.

 

The game has beeen neglected particularly over the last 2 years, and there's not one part of the game that hasn't regressed thanks to poor mismanagement and/or apathy on BW's behalf.

This.

This.

First time Casirabit agreed with me, ever! I need to SS this.

First time Casirabit agreed with me, ever! I need to SS this.

It was bound to happen once but don't let it go to your head. (lol)

I'm of the opinion that the post-5.0 Keith-era has been better for SWTOR than the 4.0 to 5.0 Ben Irving era.

Call it what you will, but game feels "less bad" to me these days. That said, it doesn't mean I like RNG gear boxes, slot locked mods, endless bugs, and grinds for no reason (was fun at first, but quickly got old).

Nor does it mean that I'm not tired of the current class meta. Personally, I feel this game needs more classes and/or specs. Give me a reason to do the same content again and again, over and over, by giving me something new/different to play. Why can't there be a 3rd Sith Warrior (jugg, mara) subclass? etc.

It doesn't matter wether you need it or not.

It's end gear.

Players want it.

End of 'fing story.

you technically don't need 248's, you don't need 236/240 augs.

But it is ingame, so players got full 248 sets with 240 augs.

Ontop of that; you put the 252/258's behind an idiotic grind, forcing your playerbase to do the exact same thing over and over for months...

well done.... well done... players are leaving everyday, they just have had enough.

You had your ''main'' Devs working on ''Anthem'' for 6 years...

It's a p.o.s.

Anthem is a joke.

bye bye Biofail.

Everybody can want anything. You have to work for it tough. I can't talk about for every NiM raider but in our opinion, getting the BiS gear via dailies, or even via hm ops like 4.0 is insult.

And the problem is making gear the same for everything means everyone should be able to get it.

I.e. how would the NiM crowd feel if the only way to get the BiS raid gear was PvP?

And of course the problem if they don't make gear the same for everything, people that have gotten used to only needing one set per class per role will be unhappy.

The devs have locked themselves in a nice closet where they are not going to be able to make anyone happy.

I'm of the opinion that the post-5.0 Keith-era has been better for SWTOR than the 4.0 to 5.0 Ben Irving era.

 

Call it what you will, but game feels "less bad" to me these days. That said, it doesn't mean I like RNG gear boxes, slot locked mods, endless bugs, and grinds for no reason (was fun at first, but quickly got old).

To each their own. I'm of the opinion that things have gone from bad to worse under Keith and feels "more bad" than ever.

(Once this referral click is used up I might re-sub just to chat on the boards. I'm weak )