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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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You know what I really wonder, though? Not even the NPCs can be gay. Nowhere in all the galaxy have I ever seen an indication from background NPCs that they might prefer a lap dance from someone who isn't a woman - or that they be wanting to be chatted up by the lady in the Mandalorian armour, rather than the sleazy wanna-be smuggler who just dragged himself out of the latrine. That takes an outstanding amount of effort and forethought, I say.

 

If nothing else, when Bioware said "gays don't exist in Star Wars" they meant it.

 

There is a human female and twi'lek female dancing together on Tatooine.

 

Not sure if that counts.

 

Most NPCs seem neutral as far as sexuality goes....can't tell either way.

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There is a human female and twi'lek female dancing together on Tatooine.

 

Not sure if that counts.

 

Most NPCs seem neutral as far as sexuality goes....can't tell either way.

 

I was just trying to be vaguely on-topic P:

 

Are they both dancing girls? Because I'm not sure if being paid to pretend you're lesbians really counts...

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You know what I really wonder, though? Not even the NPCs can be gay. Nowhere in all the galaxy have I ever seen an indication from background NPCs that they might prefer a lap dance from someone who isn't a woman - or that they be wanting to be chatted up by the lady in the Mandalorian armour, rather than the sleazy wanna-be smuggler who just dragged himself out of the latrine. That takes an outstanding amount of effort and forethought, I say.

 

To be entirely honest, that takes no effort or forethought at all. If you don't identify with homosexuality, it is easy to not include it when crafting a story -- just as if you are homosexual, the lack of it in story seems glaring.

Edited by Likomg
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And that was such a grand dream, back in the summer, to increase communication to the community. A grand dream that lasted all of two weeks, before the crushing weight of apathy grasped a hold of reality and they drowned together.

 

As the Community Team are going to back to work on the 7th at the earliest, what does everyone expect them to be commenting on? I suspect they are going to pop into the numerous Hutt Cartel threads and tell people that "magical" things are coming, hold the hands of the people wanting hood toggles, continue to ignore those on the APAC servers and give us a patronising "Happy New Year" message.

 

You know what I really wonder, though? Not even the NPCs can be gay. Nowhere in all the galaxy have I ever seen an indication from background NPCs that they might prefer a lap dance from someone who isn't a woman - or that they be wanting to be chatted up by the lady in the Mandalorian armour, rather than the sleazy wanna-be smuggler who just dragged himself out of the latrine. That takes an outstanding amount of effort and forethought, I say.

 

If nothing else, when Bioware said "gays don't exist in Star Wars" they meant it.

 

I was going to write quite frank, but since that will have a david copperfield within no time, I'm swallowing my tongue and pride.

But Tatile, I agree with you. The "no gays in star wars" line was so hurtful, especially because it was very clearly meant and he was chuckling too. Since, they've done some good marketing speak, but not actually done anything whatsoever. I don't believe that SGRs have been worked on at all. Nothing in the story that I've seen so far points me to believe that (SI on Alderaan atm, though haven't played in a couple of weeks now). Perhaps they did think that some characters would not be OGR interested, but the story is pretty damn biased towards males interested in OGR. It's quite bothersome that my male SI gets flirts with at least one female quest giver on every planet (the SI was romance light I read on several wikis). Why put it in my face all the time, why BW:A. Why?!

 

I don't expect the community team to say anything useful here, if they'll say anything at all it's most likely the c/p response we get in PMs. "We have no new information at this time."

 

My sub runs out this week. I'll see if as a prefered player I can post every now and then. Otherwise you won't hear from me. Do feel free to PM me now if you like to stay in touch elsewhere. I'm taking the fight away from BW:A and to the entire industry. I could use some help from local advocacy groups all over Europe, to cosign. It'll take a couple of months to write a good initiative, but it'll be worth it.

 

As far as RotHC goes. If it had SGR in it, we would have heard by now. There's no indication that it will be. They've been releasing bits of info on the forums, there could be another drop of a WZ or FP, but even the bloggers admit that's wishful thinking on their part and could also very well not happen. As far as story goes, we have the details of it already. Faction story, big sized planet, datacrons, there'll come some world boss (if they didn't speak of that one yet, that will be the surprise), heroics, dailies. It's not a light content patch, but imo it's still a content patch, and not an expansion. Either way, if it had new companions or more romance options (ie SGR and maybe some more female OGR) then we'd likely have heard. That is after all a major reason to pre-order this expansion.

 

To clean up some of what I wrote earlier. It's really put a damper on my experience of Star Wars period. Up to about a month ago I'd purchased every new EU SW literature that came out ever since EP2, the movie that really got me into reading SW books since I'd bought the novelisation when it came out. I don't even want to read Star Wars anymore at this point in time. Everything about it reminds me of what the franchise denies me; equal treatment, dignity and respect. The fact that the literature and movies weren't very inclusive was something I could deal with, up until I experienced this game and the way BW, EA, LucasArts and now Disney are treating the LGBTQ community. It's completely unacceptable, and I'm at present unable to seperate the reality of our struggle here and the SW franchise in general. Karen Traviss (the author who added the gay Mandelorians) is also no longer writing for SW, none of the other authors have picked up on it since she left a couple of years ago either, so this will most likely be the only reference to LGBTQ people in the Star Wars IP. And with Disney making EPVII to EPIX for sure now, this part of EU literature is likely to be pushed out of the canon, as rumours persist on the movies taking a different turn than EU literature. We are at present most likely being erased from the SW Galaxy. Disney has never been inclusive in any of its productions, be it movies, games or television. ABC has done the odd character (like the murderer in Desperate Housewives) that really did more harm than any good. Yes, as a division Disney Parks treats their LGBTQ employees with respect, but honestly, if they didn't they wouldn't have had anybody working for them. That's the cold reality folks. That doesn't make me biased to any of these companies, I'm even a shareholder of the Paris themepark. But I don't consume Disney entertainment because it excludes me actively. And I no longer enjoy Star Wars since SWTOR. I'll continue to support BW Edmonton for now, I like the DA franchise a lot. I also have the literature of DA, which is also inclusive. Yes folks, SGR in DA books as well (written by none other than saint David Gaider). But as far as SW and SWTOR go, this is the end of the line for me.

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Thank you for that Fabiyun *hugs* I know it doesn't mean much, but I'm sorry for what Bioware has put you through.

 

If you need any help for your campaign, drop me a PM or something. I have an as of yet largely unused tumblr account for contacts and writings :)

 

Also, I would totally jump at the chance to write for video games or something even if I would probably be crap at it, but I promise I'd never be as exclusive or as terrible as the majority of the current writers in the industry.

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I haven't (and probably won't) pre-order Makeb, since I just started an Agent who probably won't get to fifty until after it comes out, and I figure I'll just play her until I see what all the planet has to offer. I'll probably get it eventually, since I like soloing but want to see the endgame flashpoint stories and--

 

Wait that wasn't on-topic at all, let's try that again.

 

I've got one foot in the same boat as many of the posters here. I have several characters I've made (over the course of many years, and rather painstakingly, because I have a lot of trouble coming up with new characters), and I am rapidly running out of ones who fit into classes I want to play and are straight. Heck, the Agent I just started is a character I made specifically so I could play the class before SGRs get added! Once she's done, if cathar isn't out so I can see whether my asexual agent would be one, I won't have any characters left to play. If SGRs aren't out with Makeb, that might give me another small chunk of playtime with the few characters I have so far (assuming they also give us more character slots by then), but if it's not out by then...

 

Gosh, there is a whole awful lot determining how much I'll be playing the coming months, and nearly all of it comes back to whether we have SGRs. I don't think I realized just how much the lack of it will stop me after I'm done with my Agent until writing this just now. I mean, I have a few pansexual characters, but without knowing which companions will be available for SGRs, I can't play them, either...what if they give me an SGR that character would prefer over their OGR? What if they add flirting with questgivers, too? If I play a character that would flirt with anything that has something resembling two legs (and anything that doesn't), I run a high risk of missing out on potentially rather amusing flirts. I play this game like a single-player RPG--I don't PvP, I almost never touch space missions, I don't raid, I tried doing dailies to save up some credits but quickly lost interest--without as much variation as absolutely possible in class and planet stories, playing alts (as I so dearly enjoy) grows rapidly stale. SGRs will allow me both variation in some story elements, and allow for more alts to be played (and more character slots to be bought, I will shell out a ridiculous amount for character slots above almost anything else).

Edited by AllisonBerryman
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Happy New Year guys!

 

There is one other spot of hope I still have. I don't know if it'll help you guys though. There isn't much I can say or do.

 

However, I remember a key point: GLAAD.

 

Remember, GLAAD said that they were going to pursue the matter early next year. I doubt they'll just let it drop, and they aren't the type to give random lip service. So I'll be writing them back on the 8th if we don't hear anything.

 

I still think they are going to talk about SGRs on the 7th. Now that the pre-order is going to be done on the 7th for...<sigh> the majority, then I would expect them to go, "Surprise! SGRs!" That's just sneaky enough to where I could see them doing it in a heartbeat. Get the majority to pre-order Makeb, which includes the haters and trolls. Then wait for Joveth Gonzales to come back on the 7th. Once that is done, then I think that they will have the audacity to reveal SGRs. That's my thoughts on it anyways.

 

You guys be safe. Try not to drink too much; I'm going to have two glasses of Bailey's. Anymore and it's going to be ugly.

 

PS: I have been getting your PMs Fab. You just have this odd timing to where I don't get them unless I first wake up or so tired I'm crosseyed and have to lay down.

 

**hugs**

Edited by natashina
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Can't tell if trolling...but a funny idea nonetheless. Although they didn't allow full nudity in Dragon Age, and that was a M rated game.

 

If wanted something more adult, I could do faaaaaaaar better than ToR. :p

 

Hey, Happy New Year to you! Thanks for the support. :D

 

Edit: I thought about the cupcake idea and I was thinking just, "SGRs for ToR!" Short and quick. We'd have to make sure we sent it to BW:Austin HQ. Maybe the cake could be the layered rainbow colors I've seen. Barring that, just some pink and blue icing.

 

Is it bad that I'm starting to think that this isn't a horrible idea?

Edited by natashina
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Heya, folks. Welcome to 2013.

 

I've been thinking and I've decided to encourage people to start this year off with simple positive action. I've just visited the Support Form to drop off a note regarding this matter and I heartily suggest everyone else do the same.

 

I suggest a nice, polite but precise note to make it clear what you want from this. Let's not start 2013 off angry.

 

Here's the message I sent. Feel free to adjust it as you see fit.

 

-----

Hello, and Happy New Year!

 

I'm writing on the matter of the continued silence regarding Same Gender Relationship Arcs (SGRAs) and Same Gender [Flirt] Prompts (SGFPs) for non-companion NPCs. As you're no doubt aware this has been a matter of considerable concern for many aspects of the player base including the LGBTI community, it's allies and its detractors.

 

Every one of those players is eagerly awaiting an update (for good or ill) regarding this matter. The final official statement we've had on this matter was the Guild Summit back in March 2012, at which point we were informed the feature would be coming 'this year'. As that was LAST year I feel it fair to ask for an update, and will be respectfully asking other people who support this feature to do the same.

 

For the record I am in favour of SGRAs and have been waiting (and subscribing) since launch for this feature.

 

Many events have happened within Bioware: Austin, including staffing changes and the launch of Free to Play, which may have caused a delay in the development of SGRAs and SGFPs. As a community, however, we have heard nothing official either way (I am not including the comments made by your PvP lead as this is not his area, rendering his musings on the matter pure deniable speculation). The Community Team has told us there is 'no news' on the matter but as you can no doubt understand we have no idea if that means the feature is still on schedule (unlikely at best, considering it is now 2013), has been delayed or has been cancelled completely.

 

While we understand the development team doesn't wish to release spoilers we are primarily after information regarding the status of this feature - information which has, until now, been impossible to get.

 

Please, start 2013 off right with an update on this feature. We have been waiting a long time for it.

 

Yours,

Kioma

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Oh and Zandilar? Make sure you update your SGRA FAQ link. The one you've got isn't up to date. The current one has the Hall Hood tweets, the info about Disney, the videos to both Daniel Erickson's quote about SGRs as well as Gabe's comment. It also has the info about the ratings for both here in the US and the PEGI for ToR.

 

Look for it as "Heart of a Jedi" in my signature.

 

The More You Know! :D

 

 

By the way, I think we need to see more of our versions of the part of the sig that Kioma and I are using. :p I changed mine to EA because Disney really isn't going to have an impact on ToR for quite some time. EA, on the other hand...

 

 

Edit: I just now remembered that I had done a CSR ticket when I started emailing. I think I sent it out on the 8th or the 9th. Should I send out another one?

 

This is a great idea and it couldn't hurt. I do feel tonight isn't probably the best time for some posters. I know a few of them are going to be drinking this evening and I'm sure the anger and frustration would be harder to control tonight. I guess everyone should go for it over the next day or so. I'll be writing the press tomorrow. Ugh, tomorrow is going to be busy in the house cleaning and emailing departments.

 

Oh well, it's for the greater good. ;)

Edited by natashina
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Last post for a bit. I wanted to share this with you guys.

 

This is from George Takei via Facebook. I think we all need the morale boost.

 

I'm trying to go into 2013 on a positive note. I know I'm not a miracle worker, but I want to try to help you all do the same.

 

George Takei

 

At the end of each year, I look back and am amazed at how many unexpected gifts life continues to bring, even for someone who has lived as many years as I have. I truly never know what to expect, but that keeps me young at heart and still filled with wonderment. Have a happy and safe celebration tonight, and may you all live long and prosper. Here's to a great 2013.

 

Here's to fighting for equality, although for a different tale.

 

We're standing up for what we believe in, even if it's for A Galaxy Far Far Away.

Edited by natashina
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Whoooooooo, happy new years everyone. Just here for hugs and kisses and to show my continued support for this. Keep fighting the good fight, up with love, down with bigotry!

 

Also, up with rum, hehe, possibly down since I am drinking it.

 

^.^

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There's fan fiction and fan art for that. People come to Bioware games for their excellently written stories and characters.

 

You have to be careful if you're posting it on the site though. I don't know how often the mods go in to the Fan Art/Fiction section, but they seem to be relatively relaxed over there, possibly because those boards aren't high traffic areas, like General.

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I just hear comments of discrimination, when a lot of it seems to be people wanting the sexy yuri/yaoi fantasy in their head, and using words such as discrimation to try to fight for what they want.

 

What, and only straights get to fantasize about sex with drop dead gorgeous people? That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

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Happy New Year, everyone! Here's to hoping for a brighter future, and less of the darkness that brought our hearts to new lows! Hahaha! I play Lightside Siths, so I can get away with levity and kindness! Anyway, keep the faith! Our work will see fruitiousness! Love and hugs all around, or handshakes and toasts where close proximity is not desired.
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You have to be careful if you're posting it on the site though. I don't know how often the mods go in to the Fan Art/Fiction section, but they seem to be relatively relaxed over there, possibly because those boards aren't high traffic areas, like General.

 

Hah, that's what other sites are for. In fact there are site just for posting adult content like that.

 

Happy New Years, hopefully this year ends up better than the last.

Edited by Revanchis
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Yep happy new year everyone!

 

Maybe these links have already been posted but wanted to put it here:

 

http://www.mmomeltingpot.com/2012/12/where-did-swtors-same-gender-romances-go/

 

http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2012/12/bioware-leaves-fans-in-the-dark-about-same-gender-relationships.html

 

I don't mind waiting for this content, I understand perfectly that there's higher priorities right now. But BioWare's ostrich approach on this is just :eek:

Edited by RevansSoul
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If anyone lives near BW:Austin... I'd make them myself, but I don't think Bioware has an England branch (also gel food colouring is probably expensive from Lakeland and stuff.)

 

Does Bioware have an England branch?

 

Well customer service for TOR worldwide is at Bioware Ireland, but afaik nothing in England. Still, jut find a bakery near Austin and get them to make/deliver them.

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Well customer service for TOR worldwide is at Bioware Ireland, but afaik nothing in England. Still, jut find a bakery near Austin and get them to make/deliver them.

 

I asked Ms. Berryman anyway, but I'm going to have to guess that international requests for rainbow cakes would be quite expensive.

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First, just let me say that I wasn't aware that Bioware had two seperate development teams, so I'll clarify my comment to disregard everything Bioware if SGR isn't in the Expansion Patch: I'll never touch anything by Bioware-Austin again and scrutinize anything by Bioware-Edmonton before purchase because of their association with Bioware-Austin. Of course, how many US based developers have ever seemed to consider including LGBT's in their works? I'll admit that it can be a bit challenging to find even in games by Japanese developers (and since I'm big on RPG's, namely JRPG's since there are enough US companies for the distinction now, I don't know much about European developers), but when they are included they tend to be either good guys or background chars rather than villains. Even if most of the dating sims no longer have the homosexual branch path, just specific chars or harem, you have to get ones that are specifically homosexual to see anything like that. I don't personally mind since I'm not interested in seeing detailed yaoi content (I don't mind it being referenced and implied), but when RPing there are times when I'm going to RP a char that isn't straight, it just comes naturally to me to create ones like that at times. Although, I've had ideas for a few games and all of the ones with romance there are more than just OGR and SGR romance paths, there are also some possibilities for Triads or more (and frequently with open char possibilities for them as well), but you have to manage more than just the main chars relationship with the others, which sorta makes me think of Sakura Wars V (Sakura Wars: So Long My Love for those who don't know that it's the fifth Sakura Wars game) and I started coming up with them years before I heard of it to pre-order it.

 

Wow, that was a bit of a wandering rant, and I can't even make multiple paragraphs out of it without splitting up connected ideas. The people in Freefall (webcomic link: Freefall, sorry, I can't remember the planet's name right off hand) should probably be glad that their quirky robots don't have the degree of 'idea association' that I have.

 

As for the OGR for a male Inquisitor (if I read the shorthand right)..........I didn't hit a single flirt response on Drumand Kaas with mine, and I just recently got my ship. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that his legacy is all going Light Side. I'm not sure if that alters anything, but after he hit Light I there hasn't been anything even close to a flirt response available that I've been able to spot (not that he would've been inclined to flirt with any of the female quest givers on Drumand Kaas, as there was a decided lack of non-stuck-up-Sith female quest givers) so either there is a story difference between playing Light Side or Dark Side (which you've run afoul of) or else I missed a quest giver on Drumand Kaas, and since I didn't do all of the 'group advised' quests (I hate trying to hunt down others to join my group, and when I'm working them in the wee hours when there's hardly anyone online I just don't have the patience for it.) you might be able to talk me into going back there and giving you some 'deep fried goodness' (I love that casting quote from Grandia II, which just put me in the mood to possibly play it again some, good thing I have a backwards compatible PS3) support to complete them. My primary char (and the only one I'm playing until I finish the Chapter 2 class quests) is also named Razmoudah, if you find me online.

 

 

Also, I would totally jump at the chance to write for video games or something even if I would probably be crap at it, but I promise I'd never be as exclusive or as terrible as the majority of the current writers in the industry.

 

I'm not sure where you're from, but you're excluding Gust, Compile Heart, Idea Factory, and Nippon Ichi Software. If you're in the US all of their titles have been published by NISA (Nippon Ichi Software America), and at present I'm hard pressed to come up with writers or authors anywhere that are better than the ones they have. And yes, there has been the occasional reference to bi- or homosexual characters (Are the homosexual's really as 'happy' as the slang for them implies? They seem to get treated like **** an awful lot and I've heard rumors that they have the same relationship problems as heterosexuals.), as heroes, allies of heroes, significant background chars, and villains. I'm hard pressed to find a better balanced overall representation anywhere.

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And apparently my newly updated sig isn't showing yet. I'll admit that I just copied someone else's sig, but it's the first time where I couldn't come up with my own waying of saying it and it said something I wanted to say.

 

*edit: I just tried doing a quick edit to my sig to make it colored and now it says it is too long. I can have only four lines (which is all it is in the sig editor), so I can't even save it with a color because it thinks the sig is too long when it'd fit just fine.

 

**edit: Well, I dropped the empty line between the two parts (which let me add a color) and I was even able to make both parts different colors. I'd have to say that although I'm not perfectly happy with the results (I'd rather have the empty line back, though I think I'd keep the two colors) they are at least tolerable for my own variant on the sig.

Edited by Razmoudah
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