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RIP craft / economy


MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
01.22.2015 , 09:33 PM | #281
Quote:
The thing is, is that the people who whinge about this aren't crafters. They are leeches, to be fair here. They are the ones who buy things like midlithe crystals at about 4k credits, and then resell them for 90k credits. This is worse than nerfing the slot machines. So, what needs to be done is the leeches who mark up prices need to stop, and support those who spend credits either running missions or using the slot machines, by not buying materials, and resell them at uber-high prices.
The problem with your theory is that one can only mark up the prices in this economy that much if someone has stupidly listed it way below market value.

Generally that doesn't happen and there is very little buying and reselling occurring in the midlithe market as your example pertained to.

Well I would say there WASN'T because once they stopped the slots many people bought up to re-list higher but that's more of these rare things that happen as opposed to something that is a regular occurrence.

Avinler's Avatar


Avinler
01.22.2015 , 09:55 PM | #282
Quote: Originally Posted by comestbest View Post
crafting should have nothing to do with a slot machine.


their fix corrected the issue. now if you want resources put in the hard work and run crewskills.
There's no such thing as "hard work" in SWTOR. Companion missions might feel different, but it's all just click + RNG = crafting mats. The user interface being a mirror versus a menu is just a UI difference. Would you feel differently if they had rolled out "Companion Flash Missions" that only take 10 seconds and provided the same end results as the slot machine?

There's nothing inherently superior about the existing mission skills versus the slot machine, both are zero effort time investments to gain crafting materials.
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Draqsko's Avatar


Draqsko
01.22.2015 , 10:57 PM | #283
Quote: Originally Posted by Avinler View Post
There's no such thing as "hard work" in SWTOR. Companion missions might feel different, but it's all just click + RNG = crafting mats. The user interface being a mirror versus a menu is just a UI difference. Would you feel differently if they had rolled out "Companion Flash Missions" that only take 10 seconds and provided the same end results as the slot machine?

There's nothing inherently superior about the existing mission skills versus the slot machine, both are zero effort time investments to gain crafting materials.
Thank heavens there's another crafter out there that doesn't think that crafting is hard work.

I don't know where all these people get how hard they worked to level up their crafting skills and how many millions they spent. I did it while leveling up my alts, and if you do the training right the costs aren't much at all.

And per your original critique, they could have easily fixed it by putting a lockout on the slot machine similar to the one for crafting nodes (not a random chance one though, more like pull X number of times), and rebalancing the jawa scrap that's dropped to a sliding scale like the rep chips. That would have fixed both the cost advantage and the time advantage the original iteration of the machine had over crew missions.

But let's be honest people, there's no inherent difference between the slot machine or running crew missions for mats, in both cases you are clicking buttons. The only method that even moderately approaches work is gathering from nodes on planets.

OddballEasyEight's Avatar


OddballEasyEight
01.24.2015 , 12:21 PM | #284
Quote: Originally Posted by Avinler View Post
There's no such thing as "hard work" in SWTOR. Companion missions might feel different, but it's all just click + RNG = crafting mats. The user interface being a mirror versus a menu is just a UI difference. Would you feel differently if they had rolled out "Companion Flash Missions" that only take 10 seconds and provided the same end results as the slot machine?

There's nothing inherently superior about the existing mission skills versus the slot machine, both are zero effort time investments to gain crafting materials.
Yup... I'm doing "hard work" right now by running 4 characters with 6 companions out on missions while reading this.

And I also spent an hour or so earlier doing "hard work" by leveling up treasure hunting on another character while running through the forged alliances flashpoints.

I'm all sweaty from all this "hard work"
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SirTwist's Avatar


SirTwist
01.24.2015 , 04:01 PM | #285
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
The problem with your theory is that one can only mark up the prices in this economy that much if someone has stupidly listed it way below market value.

Generally that doesn't happen and there is very little buying and reselling occurring in the midlithe market as your example pertained to.

Well I would say there WASN'T because once they stopped the slots many people bought up to re-list higher but that's more of these rare things that happen as opposed to something that is a regular occurrence.
There has been market gouging for a long time. I saw, with my own eyes, where someone had posted midlithe crystals for 90k a piece. The most should have been 3k a piece. Here's why. The rich mission, or if you crit on a bountiful, runs between 3k and 4k. You get, out of the mission, at least 2 crystals, with the most I've seen, is about 6. Now, let's do some math. 1 mission, 2 crystals, should run you between 1.5k and 2k a crystal. So, to sell on the GTN. it should be listed between 2k and 3k per crystal. That would be more than enough to cover the cost of the mission, and enough of a profit to matter. Price gouging at 90k a piece is overkill. And this is not the only case I know of, but the one I know most about. I have seen other materials that were set to 1 billion credits for one item. And most people playing the game does not have that many credits. Listing for that much is outrageous.

Getting back to my original point, I say that adding more nodes, and making the respawn rate much faster, to both Rishi and Yavin 4 will make things a lot better and add to the economy of the game, instead of the credit sellers and price gougers.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.24.2015 , 04:56 PM | #286
Quote: Originally Posted by SirTwist View Post
The most should have been 3k a piece. Here's why. The rich mission, or if you crit on a bountiful, runs between 3k and 4k. You get, out of the mission, at least 2 crystals, with the most I've seen, is about 6. Now, let's do some math. 1 mission, 2 crystals, should run you between 1.5k and 2k a crystal.
With a full affection companion, a crit happens 20% of the time, which translates to an average of 5 missions to get a crit.

Dust to Diamond - 3755 cr ea x 5 missions = 18775 cr total / 2 Midlithe = 9,387 per purple
The Long Way There - 3890 ea x 5 missions = 19450 cr total / 3 Midlithe = 6,483 per purple

This cost can be offset by vendoring the blues. Hiridu Crystal sells for 165 each. The 10 missions above would return a combined 74 blues, which would vendor for 12,210.

This would bring the total cost for 5 purples (running the above two missions 5 times each) to 26015, and the per-purple cost down to 5203 each.

Note that I'm not excusing someone selling for 90k each -- that is grossly overpriced.

But you should certainly stop saying foolish things like this:
Quote: Originally Posted by SirTwist View Post
So, to sell on the GTN. it should be listed between 2k and 3k per crystal. That would be more than enough to cover the cost of the mission, and enough of a profit to matter.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
01.24.2015 , 06:23 PM | #287
My question is: did anyone buy those crystals at 90k each? Sellers can post at any price they wish, but if no one buys at those high prices who cares? If someone or a number of someones did buy at 90k each then maybe those prices are not as outrageous as we think (and yes I think that is an outrageous price). But as sellers we do occasionally desire to push the upper limit of an item's price range. And the only way to do so is to try. If we fail to sell, all we have lost is 24 hours and we learn something.
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Draqsko's Avatar


Draqsko
01.24.2015 , 07:23 PM | #288
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
My question is: did anyone buy those crystals at 90k each? Sellers can post at any price they wish, but if no one buys at those high prices who cares? If someone or a number of someones did buy at 90k each then maybe those prices are not as outrageous as we think (and yes I think that is an outrageous price). But as sellers we do occasionally desire to push the upper limit of an item's price range. And the only way to do so is to try. If we fail to sell, all we have lost is 24 hours and we learn something.
But you are neglecting what is really happening on alot of servers, collusion and cornering of the market. If you do not have any other options for your immediate need, you are forced to pay those prices on the GTN, or don't craft while you wait for mats to come in.

In a competitive market, you are right, someone will compete, undercut, and make the sale. It's no longer a competitive market and the vast majority of players know it they've just been swallowing the bitter cup to the dregs because they have no other choice.

The introduction of the slot machine gave them that choice, it gave them a taste of freedom from the GTN gouging, it let the genie out of the bottle that it doesn't have to be like it is now. GTN traders should make note of this because you can't get the genie back in, the demands for alternate means of gathering and crafting will increase if the ridiculous prices continue.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
01.24.2015 , 07:56 PM | #289
Quote: Originally Posted by Draqsko View Post
If you do not have any other options for your immediate need, you are forced to pay those prices on the GTN, or don't craft while you wait for mats to come in.
Failure to plan is a plan for failure. Yes, those sellers are banking on buyers who fail to plan. Is that the sellers' fault?

Furthermore, the smart buyer should see those prices, check the pricing of the item they want to craft in the first place, and then buy the (definitely cheaper) finished crafted good instead. Why craft something with outrageously expensive materials when you can buy the finished good for less? Even the chance to crit an extra does not balance the scales.

Quote: Originally Posted by Draqsko View Post
But you are neglecting what is really happening on alot of servers, collusion and cornering of the market.
You really believe that don't you? The average "market" has a large number of participants. There is NO WAY IN HELL even a handful of them could corner that market for more than a day. The conspiracy to collude you are suggesting is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain. Might a buyer get unlucky and "need" something from the GTN on a day when someone or a small group tries to corner a market? Absolutely. But all that buyer has to do is wait. If that buyer is too impatient, again is that the sellers' fault? Again those sellers are probably banking on buyers "needing" those items. The question is does that buyer REALLY need that item right that second? probably not.
The Ortzid Legacy on The Harbinger
Car'beerd (Guardian) Dalkery (Scoundrel) Blairnah (Sage) Daellia (Merc) and 11 other characters
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eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
01.24.2015 , 08:24 PM | #290
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
My question is: did anyone buy those crystals at 90k each? Sellers can post at any price they wish, but if no one buys at those high prices who cares? If someone or a number of someones did buy at 90k each then maybe those prices are not as outrageous as we think (and yes I think that is an outrageous price). But as sellers we do occasionally desire to push the upper limit of an item's price range. And the only way to do so is to try. If we fail to sell, all we have lost is 24 hours and we learn something.
While I probably wouldn't buy Midlithe at 90k per, I bought plenty at 40K-45K (and a few stacks at < 6K last week). I was selling dyes (which only use one Midlithe) at 150K-200K for a while. I run my own missions and could easily find them cheaper than 90k, but if I had a Level 500 Artificer and wanted a specific dye, the 11K price for the schematic and 100K for mats would have been cheaper than buying many finished products.

OFC, this was never going to last forever, I'm not upset that the market was disrupted, but I am upset at how clumsily it was handled.
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