Sorry if I go off on this, but getting tired of that lack of news about crafting.

So far here is what we know:

- Companions will not need gear in 4.0.

- All FPs / Ops will be buffed.

- Crafting in Conquests is destroyed.

- Min / Max is going away (I think) due to mastery. If 'mastery' was not part of EA's notices, then please delete this statement....

So to summarize, crafting looks like it is gutted and a shell of its existence on 'life support' that is it currently in 4.0.

If I am mistaken, would love for someone from EA to correct me.

Here is the problem as well - during the PAX Twitch broadcast, crafting was raised enough times even Eric mentioned it as future news coming. We are down to about 40 days to launch and not a peep. In fact the only news that exists about crafting comes from people effectively "playing minecraft" or "bitcoining" on something they are not supposed to do nor discuss on the forums if you get the euphemisms I just mentioned. So I am left thinking this news is correct and BW doesn't want to crafting revolt that will likely happen when it goes 'official'.

Again - if I am mistaken, I would love for someone from EA to correct me.

Yes - crafting is one of those OCD things that is typically an afterthought in the minds of developers. Honestly it doesn't have to be, but that is the direction BW took in development for whatever reason. So my question is why bother with it if you don't want to do it and remove it from the game if that is what you ultimately want? That is what it feels like the end-game that BW is targeting for in terms of crafting.

Finally - If I am mistaken, I would love for someone from EA to correct me.

Blak

Sorry if I go off on this, but getting tired of that lack of news about crafting.

 

So far here is what we know:

- Companions will not need gear in 4.0.

- All FPs / Ops will be buffed.

- Crafting in Conquests is destroyed.

- Min / Max is going away (I think) due to mastery. If 'mastery' was not part of EA's notices, then please delete this statement....

 

So to summarize, crafting looks like it is gutted and a shell of its existence on 'life support' that is it currently in 4.0.

 

If I am mistaken, would love for someone from EA to correct me.

 

Here is the problem as well - during the PAX Twitch broadcast, crafting was raised enough times even Eric mentioned it as future news coming. We are down to about 40 days to launch and not a peep. In fact the only news that exists about crafting comes from people effectively "playing minecraft" or "bitcoining" on something they are not supposed to do nor discuss on the forums if you get the euphemisms I just mentioned. So I am left thinking this news is correct and BW doesn't want to crafting revolt that will likely happen when it goes 'official'.

 

Again - if I am mistaken, I would love for someone from EA to correct me.

 

Yes - crafting is one of those OCD things that is typically an afterthought in the minds of developers. Honestly it doesn't have to be, but that is the direction BW took in development for whatever reason. So my question is why bother with it if you don't want to do it and remove it from the game if that is what you ultimately want? That is what it feels like the end-game that BW is targeting for in terms of crafting.

 

Finally - If I am mistaken, I would love for someone from EA to correct me.

 

Blak

FPs and OPs changes are still fuzzy as to the EXACT impact they will have. Just for example: It was made clear that the SOR HMFPs were designed with a minimum requirement of rating 178 gear in mind. And while after many months groups proved it could be done, it took perfect execution to do so. So if FP/OPs bolster only gets a character to the minimum requirement to participate, most players are going to need better gear to actually be successful. My point is these markets might not be as decimated as you think

Crafting in Conquests being curtailed is a good thing. The system was HORRIBLY broken and anyone who claims otherwise is just plain wrong. So that gravy train is gone, adapt and move on.

How does mastery affect min/max one scintilla? All mastery does is take the four "main stat" and put them under a single umbrella. Is there currently a min/max formula for a specific class that "required" main stat not intended for the class (i.e. was there a min/max reason for a slinger to use aim instead of cunning, or a shadow to use strength instead of willpower)? Even if there is/was, how many players actually took advantage of it? And how much of an advantage was it? If it were significant I'm sure a LOT more players would know about it and be using it. The intent of Mastery is to help new players; it eliminates the "accidental" use of the incorrect main stat because there will be no incorrect main stat anymore.

And if you are talking about the consolidation of surge into crit and crit being moved to a tertiary stat, well that will probably help min/max not hurt it. One less stat to consider means more allocated points in other stats.

All that being said, I agree it is time for an announcement regarding the crafting system so we can put all this speculation to rest.

FPs and OPs changes are still fuzzy as to the EXACT impact they will have. Just for example: It was made clear that the SOR HMFPs were designed with a minimum requirement of rating 178 gear in mind. And while after many months groups proved it could be done, it took perfect execution to do so. So if FP/OPs bolster only gets a character to the minimum requirement to participate, most players are going to need better gear to actually be successful. My point is these markets might not be as decimated as you think

 

Crafting in Conquests being curtailed is a good thing. The system was HORRIBLY broken and anyone who claims otherwise is just plain wrong. So that gravy train is gone, adapt and move on.

 

How does mastery affect min/max one scintilla? All mastery does is take the four "main stat" and put them under a single umbrella. Is there currently a min/max formula for a specific class that "required" main stat not intended for the class (i.e. was there a min/max reason for a slinger to use aim instead of cunning, or a shadow to use strength instead of willpower)? Even if there is/was, how many players actually took advantage of it? And how much of an advantage was it? If it were significant I'm sure a LOT more players would know about it and be using it. The intent of Mastery is to help new players; it eliminates the "accidental" use of the incorrect main stat because there will be no incorrect main stat anymore.

 

And if you are talking about the consolidation of surge into crit and crit being moved to a tertiary stat, well that will probably help min/max not hurt it. One less stat to consider means more allocated points in other stats.

 

All that being said, I agree it is time for an announcement regarding the crafting system so we can put all this speculation to rest.

I agree with everything you said here EXCEPT the part about Conquest Crafting.

And I'm not wrong!

Seriously though, go take a look at the thread about Conqust changes that Bio started over in General, and you'll see many well reasoned and polite posts explaining the damage that this change in particular will cause. There are many valid and well considered points being made there.

I agree with everything you said here EXCEPT the part about Conquest Crafting.

 

And I'm not wrong!

 

Seriously though, go take a look at the thread about Conqust changes that Bio started over in General, and you'll see many well reasoned and polite posts explaining the damage that this change in particular will cause. There are many valid and well considered points being made there.

The fact that conquering a planet was a matter of (pre)crafting instead of actually doing something that has at least a little similarity with something I'd call a conquest activity certainly kept ME from participating all this time.

Well there is lots of "missing" information before 4.0 hits, they are in the middle of announcing class changes (they have only done knight/warrior so far) but we still need information on:

1) crafting changes

2) gear changes (what exactly is being changed)

3) revision to the vanilia 1-50 game

3) smuggler/agent changes

4) trooper/bounty hunter changes

5) consular/inquisitor changes

somehow this information will have to come in the next 4 weeks with a bit of information overload and I don't think they are really that interested in answering questions as out of 40+ pages about companions after the last stream only about 25 pages got looked at and only about 60% of those questions were answered.

With all this in mind I think that its an absolute waste of time that the devs are posting class story summarys when there is plenty of information out there on these subject (wiki enteries or even youtube walkthroughs). In some ways we are probably better on un-official sites where we can talk about data-mined information.

............... So I am left thinking this news is correct and BW doesn't want to crafting revolt that will likely happen when it goes 'official'.

 

 

This begs the question as to why EA/BW would invest time and capital to make changes that they know would casue a "revolt" among existing customers. Yet it does seem that is what may welll happen. Perhaps per psandak's opinion that most players do not craft, you can conclude that EA/BW does not care about such a small segment of it's (expendable) player base.

One though has to look at the lack of official crafting information in the context of the entirety of upcoming changes with respect to which there is also little to no information. One could conclude that the silence about crafting is part of an overwhelming pattern with respect to the changes that will be part of the expansion.

It is not clear to me in any way what EA/BW is thinking or planning. Perhaps we will see an outpouring of information and advertising over the month before expansion launch. Keep the fever pitch from the pre expansion hype from peaking to early. Perhaps we will see little to nothing or a half hearted push.

Buy some popcorn and sit back and enjoy the show. IMO the reaction to the expansion will likely be more interesting and compelling than the expansion itself which will likely water down what now existis and produce limited new content firmly fixed on rails that will be doled out in dribs and drabs over the next year.

I can't imagine anyone heavily into crafting that isn't at least apprehensive about 4.0, given what is and is not known at the moment.

Companions no longer needing stat based gear means less leveling and end-game stat items sold, even a small impact to augment kits and augment sales.

May slightly increase dye sales given the only reason to gear a companion will be for looks.

Merged stats means less need for multiple stat specific modifications, specifically with the combination of cheap / free / easy legacy gear (e.g. one Mastery set for level 35 or 65 works for any class).

May impact augments as well since one legacy gear set with Mastery modifications and augments would cover every class (outside of tanks).

More bolstered content (e.g. 50-65 HM FPs & SM Ops + many new tactical FPs) means less need for gear at upper levels / entry 65 (why buy crafted items when everything is bolstered and provides gear as a reward?).

Do I feel crafting will die with 4.0? No.

Do I feel general crafting profitability and viability as a major side activity for some of us may suffer a bit? Yes.

Just ruminating here, but I wonder what may happen with the "craftable operations gear" market?

It wouldn't be a stretch to guess that 4.0 will introduce not only a new tier of craftable gear that can be learned at the trainer, but at least one new tier of craftable operations gear.

Plus, I would also be very surprised if the devs change the bugxploifeature of learning other's end-game schematics (meaning this tier of crafting wouldn't be restricted to raiders).

So long as the devs don't do anything stupid like a "downbolster" for level 65 HM Flashpoints and operations, the higher tier of gear will still be quite desirable. Since the vast majority of players desperately need to overgear end-game content -- it's possible that this market may thrive.

Time will tell.

Just ruminating here, but I wonder what may happen with the "craftable operations gear" market?

 

It wouldn't be a stretch to guess that 4.0 will introduce not only a new tier of craftable gear that can be learned at the trainer, but at least one new tier of craftable operations gear.

 

Plus, I would also be very surprised if the devs change the bugxploifeature of learning other's end-game schematics (meaning this tier of crafting wouldn't be restricted to raiders).

 

So long as the devs don't do anything stupid like a "downbolster" for level 65 HM Flashpoints and operations, the higher tier of gear will still be quite desirable. Since the vast majority of players desperately need to overgear end-game content -- it's possible that this market may thrive.

 

Time will tell.

Operations level crafted gear would be desirable, but if past history is any indication (absent the idiocy of being able to RE PVP gear for stabalizers in 1.x), the materials required will be highly limited such that the total number of items able to be crafted will be low.

I'd also see the market quickly devalue items to the point where finished goods (absent stuff like relics) would be priced at or below the materials as under-cutters scramble to use crits (Crafting X,Y,Z - Free with your mats) and volume to earn credits.

Credit to be made for sure - but a bit of a different market, mentality and playstyle I imagine from those with large alt crafting legacies using missions and basic crew skill crafted items to earn credits.

Operations level crafted gear would be desirable, but if past history is any indication (absent the idiocy of being able to RE PVP gear for stabalizers in 1.x), the materials required will be highly limited such that the total number of items able to be crafted will be low.

Well, you know, according to (ahem) ""rumors"" , end-game crafting materials will have other avenues to obtain.

I'm not terribly optimistic about this being a super viable crafting opportunity, however.

@TheWookiee

You are assuming that some who do not craft now will suddenly jump in because it is "easier". My experience tells me that the number of players who do in fact do that, will be FAR smaller than you think; No matter how easy a crafting system is, the overwhelming majority of players do not bother because it is "still too hard." They believe it is either too time consuming, too expensive or both.

I think back to playing EQ1 where every character could learn every crafting profession and 95% of materials were bought from vendors to level, and 75% of monetary investment was returned when you sold the crafted item to a vendor. And yet, I had a BOOMING food and drink business. I could sit at an oven or a still for an hour or two and make enough food and drink to sell to last a month. And yet there were only ever a handful of competitors in those markets. Why would that be the case? That general lack of interest in crafting has permeated every MMO I have ever played.

@Asbalana,

I do not think EA/BW believes us to be "expendable." I know I am about to contradict myself but IMO these implied changes are intended to increase crafting, not gut it. Crafting is a significant credit sink:

- the missions being run

- the training of schematics

- the need to RE to get better schematics

- the sale of every item on the GTN

all take credits out of the system

@DawnAskham,

The legacy gear effect you speak could be happening right now (granted to a lesser extent), and yet I know players with multiples of the same class/spec and yet they run ops over and over and over to gear each up individually. Why do you think they do so when they could just as easily drop their item modifications into a legacy gear set?

Sorry if I go off on this, but getting tired of that lack of news about crafting.

 

So far here is what we know:

- Companions will not need gear in 4.0.

- All FPs / Ops will be buffed.

- Crafting in Conquests is destroyed.

- Min / Max is going away (I think) due to mastery. If 'mastery' was not part of EA's notices, then please delete this statement....

 

So to summarize, crafting looks like it is gutted and a shell of its existence on 'life support' that is it currently in 4.0.

 

If I am mistaken, would love for someone from EA to correct me.

 

Here is the problem as well - during the PAX Twitch broadcast, crafting was raised enough times even Eric mentioned it as future news coming. We are down to about 40 days to launch and not a peep. In fact the only news that exists about crafting comes from people effectively "playing minecraft" or "bitcoining" on something they are not supposed to do nor discuss on the forums if you get the euphemisms I just mentioned. So I am left thinking this news is correct and BW doesn't want to crafting revolt that will likely happen when it goes 'official'.

 

Again - if I am mistaken, I would love for someone from EA to correct me.

 

Yes - crafting is one of those OCD things that is typically an afterthought in the minds of developers. Honestly it doesn't have to be, but that is the direction BW took in development for whatever reason. So my question is why bother with it if you don't want to do it and remove it from the game if that is what you ultimately want? That is what it feels like the end-game that BW is targeting for in terms of crafting.

 

Finally - If I am mistaken, I would love for someone from EA to correct me.

 

Blak

some other things about companions I saw in the forum

We won't be forgetting things like the relationships you have built with your Companions

Some keen eyed viewers noticed this as a part of our Livestream last night, that is why I made the switch in reference from affection

Influence in simple terms, is affection under a different name. There were some system reasons why we made the name change but ultimately it functions in largely the same way. We will likely talk more about Influence when we talk about your Character's Alliance.

Will companion bonuses still affect crafting?

No they will not. Now all Companions will simply just be better at Crew Skills the higher their Influence is.

Level and Presence. What Presence does is increase damage, healing output, and total health of your Companions

Will be able to meet and/or recruit companions that don't belong in our class?

Yes.

What happens to my existing Companions in KotFE?

When Fallen Empire launches, all of your existing Companions remain accessible to you outside of the story Chapters. In the KotFE story there is a specific cast of characters that is a part of that ongoing storyline.

 

May slightly increase dye sales given the only reason to gear a companion will be for looks.

I don't see this mattering much either way.

When KFE hits I will work on finding the right look for my preferred companion(s) and then look for a dye module to get the color(s) that I want.

As it is now, though, I will try to set up my preferred companion(s) with some moddable gear, get a look that I like, and then consider the color(s) and my options there.

So for me there's no real difference, and I figure that most players will be the same.

They will look to get their favorite companions just so, while others will remain on the sidelines for the most part and thus any investment in their appearance(s) is going to be seen as largely wasted money.

With the upcoming changes to companion roles, it may even lead to there being less demand for dyes; Rather than worrying about getting their healer and favorite tank and DPS companions made up just so, they will only be looking at a single companion to make up just right since that single companion will be able to do all of the jobs.

Just ruminating here, but I wonder what may happen with the "craftable operations gear" market?

 

It wouldn't be a stretch to guess that 4.0 will introduce not only a new tier of craftable gear that can be learned at the trainer, but at least one new tier of craftable operations gear.

 

Plus, I would also be very surprised if the devs change the bugxploifeature of learning other's end-game schematics (meaning this tier of crafting wouldn't be restricted to raiders).

 

So long as the devs don't do anything stupid like a "downbolster" for level 65 HM Flashpoints and operations, the higher tier of gear will still be quite desirable. Since the vast majority of players desperately need to overgear end-game content -- it's possible that this market may thrive.

 

Time will tell.

I'm not certain on this myself.

That top tier gear will ideally have to be what drops from the HM/NIM operations - seems the idea is to have all operations of a similar "difficulty" so no one operation rewards different gear than others.

Next Bioware traditionally doesn't allow us to RE top end gear so ideally we could assume no RE on the drops from the HM ops? At least the set bonus gear anyway.

It all comes down to what the top tier craftable gear is and how it relates to what you can get from drops/GF.

The way they are making it sound is by doing SM ops via GF you'll gear up for HM really quickly ( a gear drop from the GF and tailored drops from the bosses - this is assumption though and I'm only working off how I interpret the blog ).

Top end craftable gear will most likely compete with this gear so if it's far easier in 4.0 to get entry HM gear than it is now you can see a hit to this market too albeit a minor hit since many people will still just buy up the gear rather than do the content if they have the cash ( especially with the conquest money sink gone ).

As for min/maxing ... seems like it won't overly matter as much any more as it used to.

One thing I did note from reading some of the supposed leaked information or the Q&A on dulfy's site is a distinct lack of accuracy information ... where was all the accuracy mods etc.?

I am guessing only a really small portion of the information is up about this which is why I always laugh at people who base their anti 4.0 arguments on mined data ... it's just sooo lacking right now.

@TheWookiee

 

You are assuming that some who do not craft now will suddenly jump in because it is "easier". My experience tells me that the number of players who do in fact do that, will be FAR smaller than you think; No matter how easy a crafting system is, the overwhelming majority of players do not bother because it is "still too hard." They believe it is either too time consuming, too expensive or both.

You wouldn't even need an influx of new crafters, existing crafters alone have a much smaller variety of options to craft in 4.0 based on information at hand. That is going to boost supply significantly ( or call it competition, whatever ) and if anything I see demand dropping, not increasing, over what we have now.

I do not think EA/BW believes us to be "expendable." I know I am about to contradict myself but IMO these implied changes are intended to increase crafting, not gut it.

Really? What information supplied so far leads you to the conclusion they want to increase crafting? Everything I see will have the opposing effect so I'm curious how you came to that conclusion?

I agree that we need more unique items to craft, such as new orange mod-able gear sets that would make synthweaving and armormech not such a complete waste of time to learn (the only reason to even level them is for the advanced augments, nothing else), but I can also see EA deciding not to add any of that stuff because financially they profit more when we buy outfits and unique crystals, etc. from the GTN (e.g. cartel coins). Sadly, of course. I have all the skills maxed and wish I could craft more interesting and varied items.

My referral link for friends> http://www.swtor.com/r/kYkKg9

There's no news about crafting because Bioware knows the existing playerbase will hate the news when it arrives. So they are putting it off as long as possible. No other explanation fits.

I can think of one off the top of my head. Bioware wants to save crafting change details for last because the details will kill demand for some mats and spike demand for others.

I can think of one off the top of my head. Bioware wants to save crafting change details for last because the details will kill demand for some mats and spike demand for others.

That can be a double edged sword though because if they leave it too late you'll get the influx of "But i just spent millions on X and now you've made it basically useless" so I'm of the opinion they should announce things sooner than later to avoid anyone being out of pocket so to speak.

It may come at the expense of people hoarding/planning things now to get an edge with 4.0 but so be it, at least no one will be blatantly punished per se.

I know I for one wouldn't want to buy a couple of stacks of mats @ 1K each per mat only to find it's going to obsolete in a weeks times and my best bet is vendoring it back at 50 creds per mat or worse spending actual time gathering mats.

I know for most of us we wouldn't evne blink at 200k but we shouldn't justge everything by our own wealth because I'm sure there are a ton of players who find 200k a big deal.

I have just started again on a new server, to level a little slower and post 4.0 use the companions I want to use rather than the companions I have to use, but when it comes to crafting I don't know whether I should bother or not as I don't know how anything is going to work.

I think that the "specific" companion bonues are being removed for a more generic bonuses (probably like treek and HK-51) so does that mean I should just pick whatever seems to suit? even if I chose all gathering skills are they going to make any of the material obsolete and therefore make my time gathering them obsolete?

If Bioware wanted to "save" spoilers or big information until closer to release why didn't they start the blogs like this:-

1-60 stuff

1) how story 1-50 will be reworked (general information like speed, how side quests will work)

2) Information on companion changes (gearwise and rolewise)

3) Gear changes (what stats are being combined etc)

4) crafting changes (inc companion bonuses)

5) Flashpoint and Ops changes

None of this would be spoilers and would not affect anything about KoTFE

Then you can start being more spoilery and start taking about things like:

1) companions and other companion information relating to KoTFE

2)Class changes

3) anything else you can think of

This to me would have made much more sense and clearer in structure that what we have got from Bioware as I said if you want to keep spoilers to a minimum then this should be the only logical way to go ie talk about changes to the existing game then talk about KoTFE closer to the time as it just leaves people in limbo in terms of should we wait to level new characters until after 4.0 or not.

I've been stockpiling credits, and basic coms across all my toons. I don't even know if credits or coms are going to be good in 4.0, they are making so many changes most of them for the better imo but still I don't think anything off the table. Anyway if crafting is no longer viable for profit or they take away all my hard won purple recepies I have for all four skill stats I'll be able to play for quite a while before calling it quits using coms and credits stokcpiled.

On one hand, I think that most of us who post in this forum are in the same place; enough credits and comms to last for years. On the other hand, it does not look like there is enough new content in the expansion to draw on them. unless there are CM items that you want to buy on the GTN for credits.

Just saw this on reddit: (This guy's idea is gold)

It's for this reason that I look forward to unannounced streamlining of crafting materials in 4.0 so that there is only one material type for each grade.

If BWa can reduce four primary stats into one stat.

They certainly have the power to reduce multiple types per grade into one per grade.

Would reduce the amount of work this guy's spreadsheet requires: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T0lsh0J5Xuvpklg3mxWuPMbYr4QnhucYKbgF16jIco8/edit#gid=1540987119

image (if for some reason you can't open google docs): http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5744/21026477935_0c232a8408_b.jpg

Notice how in certain columns, there are 2 or up to 3 materials per grade. That's incredibly unnecessary.