It's no secret that I'm not thrilled about some of the artistic choices made for the Rishi stronghold. I know some like it, and that's awesome. I sincerely wish them a lot of fun decorating it. I do think there has been a disconnect between stronghold enthusiasts and the production team though. I'm not talking about aesthetics or personal taste in how one decorates, but in some things that I consider fundamental regardless of a decorator's tastes.

Mock buildings and sections seem to be a new trend in stronghold designs of late. Manaan is a prime example of a stronghold having a lot of visible space that players can't access. Rishi is another one. If we can't go inside a building or room, it doesn't need to be in the design. Filler buildings are just frustrating. I think things like a proper building, that has flexibility to serve a multitude of purposes is a fairly basic thing that should be included in every stronghold. It doesn't matter what function a decorator chooses to give the building, it should exist.

The shortage of ceiling hooks is another trend that seems to be guiding the dev team. We spend hours decorating our strongholds, not being able to properly light them is frustrating and annoying. There are some lights that go on floors or walls and actually illuminate an area, but there are many that do not produce any light at all. Additionally, most of the lamps and wall lights that do produce lights are pretty pricey and can be difficult to get your hands on.

The hooks and their layouts often mean vast amounts of wasted space in a stronghold. With the change in how strongholds effect conquest I really don't see why there aren't just hooks everywhere. Are you guys charged per hook, or does one hook take an entire day to lay down? I don't understand the current logic being applied when you guys are placing hooks. I'm willing to believe there's some underlying difficulty in their creation, but it would be nice if we had a better understanding of why hooks are placed the way they are.

Additionally, the radius of movement on the hooks needs to be increased dramatically. It's super annoying when you can't move a deco to the edge of a large or centerpiece hook. There are some really awesome decos that don't get used as often or as creatively as they could be because they just can't be moved enough to make them look good on the available hooks.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but I think there needs to be a better understanding between players and the development team when it comes to the topic of strongholds and decorating. I love messing around with decorations and creating the perfect atmosphere for a stronghold. I want to spend time and money on that aspect of the game, but the last three strongholds produced have been a little disappointing and limiting when it comes to the flexibility of decorating them.

I agree that the disconnect between devs and players on stronghold issues has become a problem.

1. Seconding the wish for better hook placements, more ceiling and wall hooks; more versatility with decos to place on those hooks.

2. Also seconding the statement about inaccessible buildings. On Manaan most of what you see outside cannot be accessed. It's the same on Rishi. Include the buildings or don't, but don't use them as set dressing. I much prefer strongholds like Yavin and Tatooine, where everything my character can walk past can be accessed.

3. Go back to designing strongholds specifically as strongholds, instead of simply re-using pieces of Ops and flashpoints. The Umbara train was just the train from the flashpoint and the Rishi stronghold is just the Reavers, recycled.

Tatooine, the homeworld apartments, Yavin and Nar Shaddaa seem a lot better designed than the more recent flashpoints because they obviously were created custom as strongholds and aren't just recycled out of the box from somewhere else.

4. Go back to designing strongholds that can be more versatile. Every stronghold has elements that are specific to that environment - sand on Tatooine; foliage on Yavin 4. But one has some versatility with them. You can make your Tatooine a posh hotel or a run-down gangsters' hideout depending on how you decorate it.

But with the train and Rishi, the environment is so strongly set that it limits what people can do with it. Like on Umbara there's so much cargo and so many things attached to the walls and ceilings that there isn't much one can do other than the mobile base.

Same thing with Rishi, there's so much specificity to the design that IMHO it's hard for players to do something that isn't run-down. If they'd made Rishi with the cantina building and some of the cottages, players could have either made them neat and clean or run-down with the help of decorations and personnel. If there had been a proper building players could decide if that was going to be a home, a hotel, a brothel, a prison, or decided not to unlock it at all.

It's even more /facepalm ,when you see them place large wall hook in Rishi on top of or under that neon sign, but then where hooks actually could and should be is just empty.

Dromund Kaas and Coruscant actually have more hooks inside than you can put decos in it. It just comes down to them being lazy and doing minimal effort to get through to next patch or expansion. Plus it doesn't help that we have ****** community manager, who doesn't really play game and uses dev cheats to get everything.

It's even more /facepalm ,when you see them place large wall hook in Rishi on top of or under that neon sign, but then where hooks actually could and should be is just empty.

 

Dromund Kaas and Coruscant actually have more hooks inside than you can put decos in it. It just comes down to them being lazy and doing minimal effort to get through to next patch or expansion. Plus it doesn't help that we have ****** community manager, who doesn't really play game and uses dev cheats to get everything.

I understand your frustrations and how dev cheats could come off as a further example of the disconnect, but I think this thread has a better chance of being seen and addressed if we try not to use pointed comments. Lol, that being said, I definitely wanted to get my hands on that code he used, lol!It was probably not the wisest move on his part to let that slip on a livestream.

I'm hoping that we'll get to have an actual open dialogue and help both the devs and players attain a better understanding of what players want and what the devs can produce. I also think that the PTS was a very good move on their part, but that they should perhaps gather more player opinions and feedback before getting a stronghold to that point. It gives them a better foundation to build on, and would hopefully lead to needing fewer changes once the stronghold is on the PTS.

3. Go back to designing strongholds specifically as strongholds, instead of simply re-using pieces of Ops and flashpoints. The Umbara train was just the train from the flashpoint and the Rishi stronghold is just the Reavers, recycled.

 

Tatooine, the homeworld apartments, Yavin and Nar Shaddaa seem a lot better designed than the more recent flashpoints because they obviously were created custom as strongholds and aren't just recycled out of the box from somewhere else.

I think part of it has to do with resource allocation. If an area designer can take something that exists already, like the Reaver area and turn it into a new Rishi stronghold, and we get more strongholds because of that, then more power to them.

If they could take the Copero area, remove alot of the outside decorations, keep the inner base but remove alot of those decorations, maybe open a house or five in the market area, and then put down some sensible hooks, i would be subbed for life.

I do agree that Manaan is the worst designed stronghold so far because it lacks the ability for the player to enter half of the visible space

I think part of it has to do with resource allocation. If an area designer can take something that exists already, like the Reaver area and turn it into a new Rishi stronghold, and we get more strongholds because of that, then more power to them.

 

If they could take the Copero area, remove alot of the outside decorations, keep the inner base but remove alot of those decorations, maybe open a house or five in the market area, and then put down some sensible hooks, i would be subbed for life.

 

I do agree that Manaan is the worst designed stronghold so far because it lacks the ability for the player to enter half of the visible space

I'd personally rather have quality over quantity, IMHO. I'd rather have them work really hard on a more custom SH that has hooks that work and is interesting to explore than to slap a SH label on a flashpoint fragment with very heavy theming, even if that means there's one SH a year instead of two.

With Copero my fear is that they'd take the most open area, which is the droid yard and warehouse, and call that our 'stronghold.' I could see using the market and landing pad as the entrance, but I'd rather see that market doorway lead to an actual house and grounds. If they're bent on recycling elements, there are plenty of beautiful houses, buildings and courtyards in Makeb that could possibly be pressed into use for a Copero stronghold.

I feel that the key moving forward is for the players to be very specific as to what elements of a plane tthey like and would like to see implemented. I don't mind recycling resources, but if that is the method going forward I think there are ways of doing it that will be more appealing to more people. Copero is a fantastic example of what they could do with already existing resources. I'm not going to lie, I've spent hours exploring in there. I've made it up onto the walls and all the way to one of the gazebos. They could use all the waterfall, hot springs, streams and bridges. The buildings could be made into one large residence or whatever instead of what seem in the fp to be apartments. There are big open areas in the town that could serve as gardens, outdoor bars, even training areas if that's what a player prefers.

What the devs should avoid is using the dark, limited areas. A warehouse provides a lot less flexibility of purpose than the city area. The same goes for the ruiins, though they are beautiful. A bunch of crumbling ruins can really only be set up as so many things. Ideally, if Copero was ever made into a stronghold, it would have the city parts and then a section of the ruins. I think both areas have their appeal and could be utilized together.

Anyway, Copero, as far as I know, is not on the table for a stronghold. I hope they decide to do it one day. I think it would provide a lot of versatility. In the meantime, I do hope that the strongholds that are plannedd have more to offer for more players. A Zakuulan palace could prove to be exceptional in this area, especially if there is a back and forth between the team and the players.

For Zakuul they have two residences seen in the game that could ostensibly be turned into strongholds with recycled elements. There's Kaliyo's apartment, to which they could perhaps add a few extra rooms. That has been requested for a while.

The palace where Vaylin's party happens could also just be given over mostly as-is, maybe without the basements - and there are grounds and gardens outside too.

For Zakuul they have two residences seen in the game that could ostensibly be turned into strongholds with recycled elements. There's Kaliyo's apartment, to which they could perhaps add a few extra rooms. That has been requested for a while.

 

The palace where Vaylin's party happens could also just be given over mostly as-is, maybe without the basements - and there are grounds and gardens outside too.

Lol, I could actually make use of the beast pens because I like the animal mounts, but I wouldn't want to see too much of the SH devoted to that area.

Lol, I could actually make use of the beast pens because I like the animal mounts, but I wouldn't want to see too much of the SH devoted to that area.

LOL I do hear that, my characters have a menagerie by now, but those beast pens are so dark and bleak and sad IMHO. I'd want to turn them all out into a nice green pasture and let them play. They're all over the place in my Tatooine and Yavin SHs because they have so much free space. In Zakuul I'd probably have the beasties roaming the gardens.

I do think if they release the Zakuul palace as a SH they should let you buy Bergola and her friends as companions, if you saved them.

I'd really like to know for sure when/if Zakuul is coming. It's been rumored for a long time. I think that's a stronghold where we definitely need to have a back and forth dialogue before it comes out. Personally, I'd prefer the palace, because I think it would be more versatile than an apartment. I think every stronghold should be designed in a way that it enable to players to take the themes and mood in several different directions. The easiest way to accomplish this is to put less built in ambience and leave it to the decorators to create themselves.

Whether people want to make a home or not, I believe every stronghold should have a building with several rooms. To me, that's sort of fundamental in a stronghold. I also think they should steer away from gimmicks and look more to quality. Gimmicks can certainly be added to strongholds, and be fun, but they should not take from the basic elements of strongholds. This is all my opinion, but I believe if they stick to a basic guideline of what a stronghold is, then add the gimmicks on top of that, they're more likely to receive a positive reaction from more players.

Reposted from the General Discussion Forum.

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I had a thought just now about how the Developers could address the demands for different fortresses - Kit Homes.

From basic/modest, to mid-range, to upmarket, extensive and luxury models. On either Coruscant or Drumond Kaas you'd go to a 'housing' instance where you do could do a walk through each kit home seeing how they look on the inside and how the decoration hooks were arranged. Then exiting, you go to a panel, make a choice of layout and planet location, and spend your credits. There would be a range of planets beyond the currently available. Each kit home would sit in its own unique instance that was adapted from the landscape of the planet chosen. So, nestled amongst the mountains on Odessan (with a handy exit to the Alliance base), on a beach with a waterfall nearby on Rakata Prime/Rishi/Copero, other locations on other planets. The ability to choose a kit home size and planet would satisfy the most avid roleplayer, decorator, fanatic.

Reposted from the General Discussion Forum.

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I had a thought just now about how the Developers could address the demands for different fortresses - Kit Homes.

 

From basic/modest, to mid-range, to upmarket, extensive and luxury models. On either Coruscant or Drumond Kaas you'd go to a 'housing' instance where you do could do a walk through each kit home seeing how they look on the inside and how the decoration hooks were arranged. Then exiting, you go to a panel, make a choice of layout and planet location, and spend your credits. There would be a range of planets beyond the currently available. Each kit home would sit in its own unique instance that was adapted from the landscape of the planet chosen. So, nestled amongst the mountains on Odessan (with a handy exit to the Alliance base), on a beach with a waterfall nearby on Rakata Prime/Rishi/Copero, other locations on other planets. The ability to choose a kit home size and planet would satisfy the most avid roleplayer, decorator, fanatic.

I think this is an absolutely brilliant idea! I really hope that the dev team see this and looks into whether or not it could be implemented. I think the flexibility it would offer is something that the strongholds in this game desperately need. I love the strongholds, but the one size fits all approach just doesn't seem to be working well these days.

Reposted from the General Discussion Forum.

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I had a thought just now about how the Developers could address the demands for different fortresses - Kit Homes.

 

From basic/modest, to mid-range, to upmarket, extensive and luxury models. On either Coruscant or Drumond Kaas you'd go to a 'housing' instance where you do could do a walk through each kit home seeing how they look on the inside and how the decoration hooks were arranged. Then exiting, you go to a panel, make a choice of layout and planet location, and spend your credits. There would be a range of planets beyond the currently available. Each kit home would sit in its own unique instance that was adapted from the landscape of the planet chosen. So, nestled amongst the mountains on Odessan (with a handy exit to the Alliance base), on a beach with a waterfall nearby on Rakata Prime/Rishi/Copero, other locations on other planets. The ability to choose a kit home size and planet would satisfy the most avid roleplayer, decorator, fanatic.

this is very similar to an idea i had back in 2016 regarding designing your own stronghold. like yours you would pick from a set number of maps from a planet, each with its own structure hooks and such. you would then buy the structures for those structure hooks, like warehouses, different planet unique buildings and such. you could even turn a structure hook into a a decoration hook, like a starship or centerpiece one. after the purchase of the stronghold and all, then you could get in and decorate.

heres a link to that blog post from august 2016

I would suggest they remove the hooks. In SWG we had free form decorating and there was a couple quests we could do that gave us more freedom to decorate

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Shui_-_Pitch

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Shui_-_Roll

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Master_of_Force_Shui

You did have a limit (based on the type of house/etc and whether or not you did the extra collections) of how many items could be placed.

Fountains could be placed in the ceilings and if turned correctly you could make a shower, I did that quite a few times.

The only catch is sometimes this decorating can be confusing to those just figuring it out but you would have better decorating and items are not limited to what type of hook or whether it is on the floor, wall or ceilings, and you were able to place items on the tables.

You could also place armor on table or item you created to use as a display case.

I have suggested this since strongholds were introduced as I believe this would give people more freedom to decorate. Sure we will have some that will not be very good but is it really any different than people just placing all chairs in one room.

https://www.google.com/search?q=swg+decorating&rlz=1C1OPRA_enUS523US528&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqqfrJ37rcAhVNM6wKHT7DDqAQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=947

I agree with most of the comments. I was extremely disappointed with the Umbara train stronghold and also disappointed with Manaan to a lesser degree. When I saw "junkyard Rishi", my heart just sank.

Fortunately, the devs did a lot of work changing the Rishi SH based on player feedback. Sure, it's not everything we asked for, but we had to know that would be the case. It was, however, a large change that undoubtedly took a lot of effort and proved that they're listening.

More proof came from other posts -- they've said that they wished they could have made even more changes, and they said that they'll be looking at a future stronghold that offers more of a "cantina" setting.

There are also more awesome decorations and decoration-only packs coming in the near future.

This is enough to counter a great deal of the skepticism and cynicism that I built up during the Manaan/Umbara months.

When I last toured it, after the first big round of changes, I thought... "Well, a lot of people did request a smuggler's or bounty hunter's den; this fits the bill and I can work with it." I made my Umbara SH into a "Holiday train", so I'm going to turn Rishi into a "Halloween haunt". That way, I won't have to redecorate my other strongholds when I invite guests for holiday-themed social events.

With any luck, they won't charge extra for a Guild version of the Rishi SH, so we can afford to switch from Coruscant and DK, opening up more social options.

I agree with most of the comments. I was extremely disappointed with the Umbara train stronghold and also disappointed with Manaan to a lesser degree. When I saw "junkyard Rishi", my heart just sank.

 

Fortunately, the devs did a lot of work changing the Rishi SH based on player feedback. Sure, it's not everything we asked for, but we had to know that would be the case. It was, however, a large change that undoubtedly took a lot of effort and proved that they're listening.

 

More proof came from other posts -- they've said that they wished they could have made even more changes, and they said that they'll be looking at a future stronghold that offers more of a "cantina" setting.

 

There are also more awesome decorations and decoration-only packs coming in the near future.

 

This is enough to counter a great deal of the skepticism and cynicism that I built up during the Manaan/Umbara months.

 

When I last toured it, after the first big round of changes, I thought... "Well, a lot of people did request a smuggler's or bounty hunter's den; this fits the bill and I can work with it." I made my Umbara SH into a "Holiday train", so I'm going to turn Rishi into a "Halloween haunt". That way, I won't have to redecorate my other strongholds when I invite guests for holiday-themed social events.

 

With any luck, they won't charge extra for a Guild version of the Rishi SH, so we can afford to switch from Coruscant and DK, opening up more social options.

I think at this point Rishis is probably not going to see any drastic changes. I do hope they make adjustments to one of the current buildings but it's like not going to be anything groundbreaking. I don't have a problem with a pirate town, but I think if they'd chosen an area more akin to the initial landing zone the same feel could be accomplished whilte retaining the versatility for players to take the SH in a different direction if those had chosen to. But Rishi is what it is and any changes they make before the release are not going to fundamentally change it.

My hope with this thread is that the devs see it and engage stronghold enthusiasts before they nail down the designs of future strongholds. My personal belief is that a stronghold should be basic enough in design that it leaves it to the player to choose the mood of the place, and doesn't pigeon-hole an aesthetic. So while Rishi did spur me to make the post, it's not about Rishi, but about strongholds in general. The greater versatility a stronghold has the greater appeal it will have as well.

I agree with everything you guys said, but there is one thing I would like to add: It doesn't matter how versatile a stronghold is if we can't decorate it.

The availability of decorations has long been an issue, especially as Strongholds get added more frequently and people have to choose between ditching some locations or spreading out their decorations amongst all the different strongholds available. Decorations from older packs and even some newer ones can be expensive, and I've found many times that certain kinds of decorations I once felt to have in abundance are becoming scarce due to the sheer number of strongholds that exist.

Of course, I'm not just sitting around making no effort to expand my options and I don't mind working with limitations, but sometimes it can be disheartening to find old favorites of yours almost inaccessible due to the high GTN prices or absence from the GTN entirely due to their rarity.

It's especially painful when this happens with minor-yet-useful decorations like small chairs and other such decorations best used in large quantities. Worse is when you find a decoration meant to be cheap or humble for the price of Tulak Horde's lightsaber. Not that underworld or humble themes should be easier for decorators to work with - I understand WHY a rare item is rare, even if in the lore of the game it's nothing significant - but it still hurts to see a broken table be worth every credit you have.

In short, I think the attainability of decorations sorely needs to be increased, so I hope the devs keep going in that direction. The consolidation of Cartel rep vendors, the increasing accessibility of things like Cartel certificates, and the addition of more decorations that can be obtained through crafting and in-game things like reputation vendors and PVP are not unwelcome and have not gone unnoticed.