For TL;DR's read last paragraph and next post.

 

Now, I am fairly new to MMO’s. I dabbled with WoW (trial to 20 and played a bunch of bg’s) and in the SWGEMU and a little bit of Guild Wars. I used to be an avid xbox fps player. Yes, Call of Duty, Halo, etc. The thing is with pvp in MMO’s is that the whole system is flawed. It seriously hurts the new guy. If a company wanted to attract new players into an MMO, they seriously need to rework the system. There’s so much wasted potential by the current system MMO’s follow.

 

 

My main issue lies with gear. Now, I understand why the concept is in place: to reward people who spend more time playing. But that seriously makes no sense. So the new guy on the block, who just hits 50, or just hits max level in any other MMO is at a serious disadvantage as compared to those who were already there. The time it would take for them to get that gear would be LONGER because it would be harder to earn the prerequisites against all the geared out players (to get valor and dailies in a sense). The concept of the MMO should be reward, I agree with that. But that is the concept of every single game on the market. You don’t need to keep people spending hours and hours farming commendations in order to keep them playing. Look at freaking FPS games.

 

 

This leads me to my main point. In FPS games, all “classes” are balanced but it’s SKILL that allows the longstanding players to win. Developers work insanely hard to balance out all the guns and give everyone an equal chance to make it to the top of the kills list, an equal chance at MVP ( you get the idea). Yet who tends to win those? The noob? No. The casual? Maybe, since he has an equal shot. The veteran? F$#$ yes. And the reason is because of skill. After playing and playing against players with equal opportunities, the veteran naturally develops more skill over time.

 

I want a company to revolutionize MMO’s. Why force the player to go through such a torturous and demoralizing (not to mention insanely long) process just to get on equal footing in GEAR (not SKILL) as one who had been there longer. The reality is, the person that has been there longer will naturally have MORE skill than the one that just hits 50. Compound the fact that they are not only BETTER at the game but also with the fact that their gear gives them a 50% boost in HP and insane boost in dmg and the new guy has almost no shot. Why penalize the new guy? How is he supposed to get better if he just gets bumrushed all the time?

 

 

It really doesn’t make sense and the numbers prove it. The number of people playing FPS games is booming because of the fair and equal playing field it provides. It’s FUN that way! MMO’s should provide the same thing and I don’t see why they don’t. That’s what made WZ’s so freaking fun during beta weekends and during the first week of early access before people started getting geared up. Why spend so much time making classes equal when it’s just those who have better gear win?

 

 

TL;DR. go back and read last paragraph. PVP should be based off SKILL not GEAR.

Edited January 25, 2012 by KOTOR-LOVER

Some things you can do to make the player feel rewarded instead of giving them an insanely unfair advantage:

 

1. Something FPS games make the player feel very good about is showing XP gains per kill (e.g. COD). That way, the player KNOWS they got the kill and it makes them feel good about themselves.

 

2. Reward legacy points per kill and display it on the screen when they get the kill ^.

 

3. Reward valor per kill.

 

4. Reward commendations per kill.

 

5. Make gear aesthetic in PVP but still be of competitive use in PVE. The better you get, the crazier looking your gear gets without the insanely unfair stat boost.

 

6. Reward cool new animations if certain achievements are unlocked (30 kills 0 deaths, kill every member of the opposing team twice, get 15 killing blows, etc.)

 

7. REWARD SOMETHING for those achievements^. Make more medals!

 

.... the options are limitless. Gear is the downfall of all MMO PVP. I remember when everybody loved PVP in the beginning when gear wasn't the issue and all stats were bolstered equally and no one got expertise bonuses and everybody LOVED it. I know I did because the player that won was BETTER, not more geared.

Edited January 25, 2012 by KOTOR-LOVER

This thread is different btw because it provides plausible replacements to provide the player with that rewarding feeling. Check the second post.

After reading that, I now offer a revised TLDR for your consideration...

 

TLDR: Guild Wars 2 FTW.

 

Edited January 25, 2012 by Jebi

Yes can't wait for guild wars 2.

 

And look at my signature.

But I want to play STAR WARS!

You said it yourself. You have never played MMOs. Thats it.

 

This is not an FPS game. MMOs are games where you invest far more time.

The rewards takes longer and often are more rewarding.

 

In Battlefield 3 I sure dont get the same gear as the others when Im high rank compared to new ones, so even modern FPS out there have a "leveling" and "gear" system in place.

 

Again, you have never played MMOs and your utter post is just, nonsense.

 

Grind harder and Good luck

While ill agree that his post was way too long to just say "gear grind is lame";

 

hes not wrong.

 

coming from the opposite end of his spectrum, i've played MMO's for pvp since DAoC (and sadly, I have never been as happy with pvp as i was in DAoC).

 

there are numerous reasons why DAoC is regarded by nearly all who were around to play it as the pinnacle of MMO-pvp:

 

1.) Community. If 8 people saw 8 of their own and 8 enemies going at it, they waited until the enemy recovered rather than "jumping in the fray." PVP had plenty of trash talk, but the engagement was polite. Relic raids and keep defense required interguild relationships to work.

 

2.) 3 factions: population imbalance constantly self corrected by having 2 underdogs gang up on the dominant faction.

 

3.) Gear. The maximum level of gear, until TOA (widely regarded as the death of the game), was easily obtainable within a month or less if friends chipped in. To hold you over, you were provided with excellent lvl50 class quest gear until then.

 

....and there are lots of other reasons, including great open world, the utter lack of arena and endgame pve content (balance therefore wasnt withheld in the name of pve).

 

tldr: dismissing a guy for disliking a gear based pvp system based on his "lack off mmo experience" is ridiculous, when some of the most succesful pvp models had a equal gearing system in place.

 

gear has the upside of giving hardcore players (myself included) something to look forward too, and worked nicely in that regard in wow, rift, and WAR; but in all 3 of those games, it also served to alienate new pvp'rs, who were forced to go through grinds just to achieve a medium level of competitiveness; further, it reduces the excitement found in real pvp by overpowering those of us with too much free time and ultimately doesnt accomplish much other than making bads able to global noobs.

Firstly, this is an MMO.

 

Secondly, your comparison to FPS games is flawed. Have you even played an FPS recently? They are bigger grinds than MMO's man! For the love of god, do some research - BF3 and MW will show you that a moderate skilled player vs. a fresh account will have the advantaged based on perks and weapon mods available alone.

Agree, all those people who say "but..but its an mmo" are pretty dense. PvP is broken by giving out super gear to people who play all day. I don't need to prove anything, just log in to starwars and que solo. You'll get rolled by some clown battlemaster and not due to any skill.

 

Everyone on the same level = fun competitive games

The random snowflake all super powered = kid in basement thinking hes important for killing people who cant possibly win.

Firstly the difference between tiers is quite small and really is just ore of an epeen boost nothing really to worry about, your concern is that this is putting a recently dinged 50 at a huge disadvantage when in reality the disadvantage is quite small, there is a whole pvp set exactly for entry to pvp it doesnt require mercenary commendations it doesnt require luck for drops and it gives a lot of expertise. While this wont bring you into the exact same amount of gear as a battlemaster fully geared (which Im not sure exists yet anyway) you will be in a very competative position regardless. The best part is this gear can be bought before level 50 and is available near your class trainer on courascant, allowing you to flaunt the skills you picked up in your vast mmo experience.

 

MMO's tend to be about the long haul and really for most of them you should be planning for max level early enough that is really the key difference to an fps in an fps you start ready for killing but an MMO you have to ramp up to the competative fighting (via leveling and whatnot)

Edited January 25, 2012 by Vellnias

To much crowd control......nuff said.....

This is what's wrong with PvP firstly. And needs to be fixed.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gTtupyI68M&t=0m31s

I'm paying for a game. I want the field to be level from the start. That is all. In MW, the better player (i.e. more skilled) will beat the guy that just starts 9 times out of 10 even with the starting weapons. That's naturally how player versus player combat works. If Bioware wants to copy other MMO's flawed systems then whatever, I'll do the grind. But it's not enjoyable. I think they should use their creative talents to come up with something new and innovative to reward the players with something other than giving them an unfair advantage over players who haven't been there as long.