If you haven't played through the expansion yet and you don't want to spoil anything, stop reading here.

I'm sure other people have done it as well but nonetheless I wanted to express my dissatisfaction with how story and quests were handled in the XPac. All in all, it was something of a letdown for me. When I bought Shadow of Revan, I was under the impression the quest system would be similar to what Bioware did in Rise of the Hutt Cartel (one major Republic storyline, one major Empire storyline, small number of side quests and daily quests from a terminal), with the addition of one class story quest for each class. I was fine with that and was looking forward to the experience. Then when I reached lvl60 on both sides I found out that:

ISSUE NUMBER ONE:

I was really disheartened by this as this, to me, removes the uniqueness from both factions. The only saving grace is that short, 5 minute class story quest, which overall doesn't compensate for the issue brought up in the spoiler tag.

ISSUE NUMBER TWO:

Then I also found out that conversations from side quests were removed entirely from the game. This is a major issue for me because one of the reasons I so thoroughly enjoyed leveling is that quests were interactive and enveloping, even the most insignificant side quests. You could choose an answer and see the response of the quest giver. Now it's just a single line of dialogue and a text box pops up. How is this different from WoW, GW2 or other traditional text box quest MMOs? Please, I want the interactive side quests back, they added so much depth to the game. These new quest types are just bland, considering that most of the time I can't even listen to their full dialogue because my healer companion casts something and his dialogue interrupts the NPC's.

ISSUE NUMBER THREE:

You have to hunt down daily quests individually? I hated that on Ilum and Belsavis as well and I was glad Black Hole and Section X did away with them. Daily quests are the only type that don't need NPC quest givers, so just stick them on a terminal for convenience's sake, instead of scattering them around the planet. On Rishi the daily quests are scattered all over the place. So how do you balance story and daily quest terminals? Just look at what you did on Oricon, the first time you're doing the quests, you receive them from an NPC with interactive conversation, then they turn into daily quests you can grab from a terminal. Oricon has been, IMO, the best designed daily planet so far, and daily planets in the future should follow that design.

Anyways, I'm hoping Bioware will learn from this and go back to the previous quest design, because for me, at least, this expansion was not as good as it could have been.

I am Barack Obama, and I endorse this post!

I emphatically agree wit h your post.

I agree!

I had some fun, but overall I felt this was an inferior expansion to RotHC, largely because of your reasons 1-2, which surprised me as Empire and Republic joining forces to fight a returned Revan had way more potential for an interesting story line than some Huts doing some environmentally destructive mining.

As the side quests used to be implemented, they were mainly stitched together using stock vo class responses, with maybe 1 unique response per dialogue choice. All they have done is removed the cinematic camera and made the interaction between your character and the quest giver into ambient banter.

It's a streamlining of side quests, and I personally think it improves the flow of game-play by not pulling you into the cinematic camera so often. I actually hope they go back and give the 1-50 planets a scrub over using this new approach. It also gives a greater emphasis to the class and planet quest arcs.

As for daily quests, they really should put those onto a quest terminal once you've completed the quest from the npc at least once.

As the side quests used to be implemented, they were mainly stitched together using stock vo class responses, with maybe 1 unique response per dialogue choice. All they have done is removed the cinematic camera and made the interaction between your character and the quest giver into ambient banter.

 

It's a streamlining of side quests, and I personally think it improves the flow of game-play by not pulling you into the cinematic camera so often. I actually hope they go back and give the 1-50 planets a scrub over using this new approach. It also adds a greater emphasis to the class and planet quest arcs.

Some of them, mostly yes, but many of them were more unique then you give them credit for. Besides, listening to several lines of interactive dialogue is more interesting and gives better context for the quest to come, and even if all of the dialogues were as empty and generic as you say, the (perhaps poor) illusion of player interaction, player purpose, and context, is better than no illusion at all.

I of course disagree that it is an improvement, and would be dismayed if they converted previous quests to this form. I don't think the seconds this new system saves for the people who would be space barring through the convos to get to kill X monsters a few seconds faster anyway is worth the real, tangible reducing of quality and fun that comes to those of us who actually like listening to the dialogue, attempting to immerse ourselves in the world and our character, and getting to choose what our character says.

Imagine all the cool story lines that would be totally destroyed by this change.... Bye bye flirtatious rivalry with Thana Vesh, you are now a text box.

And another thing, as the OP stated, voiced and interactive dialogue is what sets this game apart from others like WoW, and, when you start reducing the amount of it in your content, said content becomes less and less unique and more and more like WoW and others. WoW already has a lot of things that it beats SWTOR at.... voiced and interactive conversations is one thing SWTOR has over WoW.... reducing and/or taking that away makes this game considerably less valuable in the MMO market.

Some of them, mostly yes, but many of them were more unique then you give them credit for. Besides, listening to several lines of interactive dialogue is more interesting and gives better context for the quest to come, and even if all of the dialogues were as empty and generic as you say, the (perhaps poor) illusion of player interaction, player purpose, and context, is better than no illusion at all.

 

I of course disagree that it is an improvement. I don't think the seconds this new system saves for the people who would be space barring through the convos to get to kill X monsters a few seconds faster is worth the real, tangible reducing of quality and fun that comes to those of us who actually like listening to the dialogue, attempting to immerse ourselves in the world and our character, and getting choosing what our character says.

 

And another thing, as the OP stated, voiced and interactive dialogue is what sets this game apart from others like WoW, and, when you start reducing the amount of it in your content, said content becomes less and less unique and more and more like WoW and others. WoW already has a lot of things that it beats SWTOR at.... voiced and interactive conversations is one thing SWTOR has over WoW.... reducing and/or taking that away makes this game considerably less valuable in the MMO market.

Fair point.

Losing the interactivity, even if it's sometimes an illusion is the main downside of this approach.

I'm not one to space bar through dialogue, but I find sitting through awkward stitched together cut-scenes with talking heads tedious, especially when it's an inconsequential side quest. Maybe we could still have the dialogue wheel, but not pull the player into the cinematic camera.

Mate, do you really, REALLY believe, that they can once again make immersive storyline, voice-over dialogues and separate quests, with barely fraction of old team and financial support, being on life support as long as players are still willing to buy CC? Dont get me wrong, i love the game, i was with it since main game early access, but right now its a husk of what the game was. And any expectations, that it would return to former glory are just unrealistic dreams, unfortunately...

PS.

Proper term for it would be: Game got EA'ed.

Mate, do you really, REALLY believe, that they can once again make immersive storyline, voice-over dialogues and separate quests, with barely fraction of old team and financial support, being on life support as long as players are still willing to buy CC? Dont get me wrong, i love the game, i was with it since main game early access, but right now its a husk of what the game was. And any expectations, that it would return to former glory are just unrealistic dreams, unfortunately...

 

PS.

Proper term for it would be: Game got EA'ed.

Dreams they may be, but my beliefs or non-beliefs about the capability of Bioware don't really factor in to what I said,as all I was doing was expressing how the reduction in interactive voiced quests negatively effected my enjoyment of the game. The nature of that effect doesn't have anything to do with my belief in Bioware's capability; whether I believe they had the power to implement interactive voiced side quests or not is irrelevant, the reduction of my enjoyment of the content remains the same.

ISSUE NUMBER TWO:

 

Then I also found out that conversations from side quests were removed entirely from the game. This is a major issue for me because one of the reasons I so thoroughly enjoyed leveling is that quests were interactive and enveloping, even the most insignificant side quests. You could choose an answer and see the response of the quest giver. Now it's just a single line of dialogue and a text box pops up. How is this different from WoW, GW2 or other traditional text box quest MMOs? Please, I want the interactive side quests back, they added so much depth to the game. These new quest types are just bland, considering that most of the time I can't even listen to their full dialogue because my healer companion casts something and his dialogue interrupts the NPC's.

 

ISSUE NUMBER THREE:

 

You have to hunt down daily quests individually? I hated that on Ilum and Belsavis as well and I was glad Black Hole and Section X did away with them. Daily quests are the only type that don't need NPC quest givers, so just stick them on a terminal for convenience's sake, instead of scattering them around the planet. On Rishi the daily quests are scattered all over the place. So how do you balance story and daily quest terminals? Just look at what you did on Oricon, the first time you're doing the quests, you receive them from an NPC with interactive conversation, then they turn into daily quests you can grab from a terminal. Oricon has been, IMO, the best designed daily planet so far, and daily planets in the future should follow that design.

 

Anyways, I'm hoping Bioware will learn from this and go back to the previous quest design, because for me, at least, this expansion was not as good as it could have been.

I think on first play-through of Oricon, the style of quest giving was pretty much spot on. Subsequent [Daily] / [Weekly] quests available via the terminal is fine. Equally said though, I actually enjoy having the interaction with an individual quest giver in the form of the "text box" and short dialogue, although that could indeed be improved by having the conversation wheel introduced in some form and without pulling into a cut-scene every single time. It's not totally different to the data-pad quests we've had in the past on previous planets like Balmorra etc, just a little bit more immersive without being intrusive.

Although, it could definitely be improved by having the daily quest terminal in terms of ease of access I think I actually prefer individual quest givers. What I would like to see is some form of a [Weekly] introduced for Rishi that encompasses all of the individual daily quests available. Something that actually gives me a reason to keep going back, because although small, it's aesthetically pleasing

"Game got EA'ed"

x1000

EA does not release expansions, they release new games. Insofar as crew, resources, the game made over 300 million the past two years. That is not insignificant.

Completely and entirely agree. This expac could have been great but they failed on so many parts.

Flashpoint leading into expac. Brilliant idea both for marketing and player enjoyment.

Return of Revan. Very cool. Who doesn't love Revan.

Even the NPC's were cool. Theron Shan and the sith lady were both great characters. Wookie with droid was awesome too.

Rishi was an interesting planet with a great vibe. Yavin not so much but was still good.

Opening scene on starship was entertaining, humorous and exciting. (jedi knights was anyway)

However the whole expansion after that just didn't feel immersive like swtor always has been for me. I think the new way they handle side quests is the reason why. The world's always felt so alive with all these people to talk to and now outside the main quest it feels lifeless.

The return of Revan should have hands down been better than the hutt cartel but instead I felt like I was phoning it in while playing. Didn't really feel like I was overly involved.

Well done EA. One small step (backward) for EA, one giant facepalm for man kind

Looks like EA hasn't learned that in order to make money you need to spend money. Budget slashed should we expect more of this for the future?

I'm kind of convinced that the EA folks know more about business than you, or anybody else here. Of course, you can always prove me wrong by starting your own multi-billion software company.

Well done EA. One small step (backward) for EA, one giant facepalm for man kind

Because mankind, as a whole, cares enough to do even a microscopic facepalm. Yep. Totally.

EA does not release expansions, they release new games. Insofar as crew, resources, the game made over 300 million the past two years. That is not insignificant.

Yep, EA has never released any expansion for any game, ever. Not once. And they never will.

Oh wait... Hyperbole! Yay!

Though, I don't recall hyperbole ever making a decent argument for anything, but it's the run of the mill style of argument among "gamers".

Bottom line: bring a factual, rational argument and not constantly the same old ridiculous whine about EA being basically worse than Hitler. It's getting boring and only shows that "gamers" are nothing else but a bunch of b****y little girls.

Heck, I'm still trying to figure out what a "gamer" supposedly is, because I'm not quite sure how consuming a mass produced form of mainstream entertainment makes one "elite" or "special" in any way to warrant such ridiculous self-labeling.

Though, I don't recall hyperbole ever making a decent argument for anything, but it's the run of the mill style of argument among "gamers".

 

Same goes for sarcastic mockery.

That said, did chuckle at your post.

Yep, EA has never released any expansion for any game, ever. Not once. And they never will.

Sports games:

Madden X , no expansion just a new game

Fifa X, no expansion just a new game.

Wait, I see you moving the goalposts because those are sports and not MMOs

ME 1

ME 2

ME 3

Granted, they did release a DLC for ME3 because the ending was so terribad I guess they felt guilty.

Wait, I see you're moving the goalposts again because ME was single-player and not a MMO

Sims

I think we've been down this road before.

But please continue with the snark and not provide any counterpoint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Effect_2

developed by BioWare and published by Electronic Arts.

And of course ME 3.

I agree with point 1. A lot more could've been done with that especially for individual classes. At the same time I do have to say the story is far superior to the RothC story.

I do not agree with point 2. I do like the conversations in quests but honestly, I don't need em for dailies. At the same time I do have to say they could've balanced it out by doing better in point 1.

Point 3 is a bit double for me. Variation is good and we already have so many dailies it really doesn't bother me. I think that between ilum, black hole, cz, section x, oricon and yaving, you have enough dailies that are totally easy to collect.

The one thing that would make things better there would be a quick travel point in the cantina. That would help.

its because tehy are running out of the pre made Content on wich they are basing this F2P model on ...

just dream with me, a sub only swtor getting a Major Expansion called Shadow.of.Revan, including all the Content

that was spread out over the last two years in mini expansions and pay to win stuff ... an Expansion as big as the

original game at release, with all the stuff we know from cartell market present in the game as raid/quest/craft reward, with a Karma and armor type system still in place to restrict access to certain classes and playtypes ...

ofc, this Expansion was planed and even created before the game was released back in the days, but instead of

finishing it, they went f2p ... molding what they have into some shape that People will always accept for 17euros

but its pathetic and heartless ... makeb, oricron, manaan or rishi are all looking great, but are so small and empty ...

(manaan is a joke, while I like the manaan style the most of all what I have seen in the game)

and then teh new caracters like T.Shan or the Wookie ... maybe ones planed as companions for both types of Players, but what are they doing now ... selling their starter outfits for real bucks on the cartell market ...

in the german Version the new Content that is voiced has all the original voice acters from when the game was released, while I remember that I encountered bits of conversation earlier where my Jedi was talking with a different voice all of a sudden ... since tahts not Happening anymore I guess they are not producing new content,

not even using the already existing totally neutral conversation Options or Alien language with sub-text ...

regards

@Issue2

Those side quests are mostly dailies, and they have been only available in terminals since Makeb I guess. So actually players that praise immersion gained more immersion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Effect_2

 

developed by BioWare and published by Electronic Arts.

 

And of course ME 3.

You can read right?

Bioware was not owned by EA by the time the original Mass Effect was both developed and released.

As such...

ME 1

ME 2

ME 3

ME 1 -- as you call it -- shouldn't be in that list.

@Issue2

 

Those side quests are mostly dailies, and they have been only available in terminals since Makeb I guess. So actually players that praise immersion gained more immersion.

That's the Glass half full approach I guess. But there were other quests, mainly on Rishi, that weren't dailies yet still did the text box approach.

Meanwhile, on Makeb, there was the best of both worlds: Terminals for Dailies for the players who want easy collection, and voiced, interactive side quests for those who wanted that.

So, while we got a minor improvement in the dailies (albeit slight, as listening to one line and reading a text box isn't that much better than reading a text box, and the dailies themselves are not spread out, not having the advantage of the Terminal), we did get a significant reduction as there are just less side quests than on Makeb, and those that are there boring in comparison, with no interactive dialogue.

 

I do not agree with point 2. I do like the conversations in quests but honestly, I don't need em for dailies. At the same time I do have to say they could've balanced it out by doing better in point 1.

 

What about Makeb, where there were both? Conversations for side quests, terminal/text box for dailies.

I'm kind of convinced that the EA folks know more about business than you, or anybody else here. Of course, you can always prove me wrong by starting your own multi-billion software company..

That's why Dragon Age 2 was such a success - less money - yeah - right. Though in EAs favor they did learn something and gave DA Inquisition a much larger budget and more time.