Bioware, upon buying my Manaan stronghold I was so disappointed. Not only at the fact that you gave us very little rooms, but the fact that you made so many parts of the stronghold map that could've easily been part of the stronghold that we can't even get to without finding glitches. You could've easily made at least 2 more rooms.

As I explore this stronghold I have discovered how lazy its become. I'm sorry but I was really crushed when i saw this. For example, image 1 could've been so easy to turn into parts of the actual map. All you had to do was extend this missing path and that literally increases the size of the stronghold by 1/3rd of its current size. You promised us a stronghold, not half a stronghold. Even the Coruscant stronghold (a freaking apartment) has more rooms than this junk.

Picture thread one: You can tell they got lazy when they had two years to do this. Sorry for being honest Bioware (if you're even reading this).

http://imgur.com/a/G2u3n

http://imgur.com/a/p9J1e

http://imgur.com/a/uIot4

As you can see by these images, we could've had access to a whole bunch of the submarine portion of the stronghold, but as you can see from the first picture in this list, Bioware decided not to connect the path. WHY? Did Bioware think it was useless? As you can see, I'm literally walking on it. It's flat land that can easily have hooks added to it and included in the stronghold, SO WHY ISN'T IT? I have been waiting so freaking long for this stronghold, and get slapped in the face and robbed instead. Many people feel this way. There are dozens of posts on this forum since the day the Manaan stronghold came out, describing how disappointing the stronghold is, mainly because its lack of content. This is literally such an easy fix. Bioware, just connect these paths and add hooks. It's that freaking simple. No hooks will be destroyed in the process, and customers will be satisfied. All you have to do is spend 30mins to an hour of your precious time just making this pathway legitimate. It will not only help the hook problem, but it also gives us more views and more places to enjoy and place our hooks. Why not do it? This needs to happen. I can guarantee you that many people will be happier with this stronghold if this was an accessible part of it.

Also, why are there hooks up here?? You literally can't even place on these unless you glitch up here. Useless stronghold.

http://imgur.com/a/bmOOP

Once again, no offense, but this had to be said Bioware. Please give us what we want for once.

-PS: If you patch this glitch I will be ticked off because its the only thing that makes the stronghold worth using.

I completely agree, the stronghold is tiny and needs more rooms. it sad to see so much wasted potential. When I first imaged what a Manaan stronghold would look like. I didn't think it would be just a reskin of the landing area of the planet just with a garden and underwater room. (granted, what I was imaging was a bit out of question) The fact that there could have been more rooms breaks my little fan boy heart. hope bioware sees this thread.

P.S. I kind of wanted a zakuul stronghold

The fact that there could have been more rooms breaks my little fan boy heart. hope bioware sees this thread.

Not only could there have been more rooms, its the fact that they purposefully didn't include them when they were already there that really upsets me. Literally all they had to do was make the path in the first image connect with the entrance. Boom, a stronghold that is almost 1/3 bigger.

It's stuff like this that makes me upset, because this wasn't some looped animation out the west window. They really made that! and it looked cool!

If they had made an arch through the starship wall it could've been an expanded courtyard!!!!

Even worse is that they had the subs rendered... three of them... in one area... and couldn't make one a taxi. And they had to decide features about the terminal to enter/exit. That's part of the design process- make the terminal so people can enter exit. And they had custom ones before (Nar Shaddaa taxi). So they ACTIVELY said, "Nope. No submarines in reach, not even as a panel to enter/exit. Only in the distance, rendered through a murky teal-ish window. Anyway, brown panel it is- lets not reskin the shaddaa taxi!" :mad:

I really think this is what happens when you have closed PTS. It's become very apparent that the right kind of players are not testing this stuff, because I can't believe NO ONE who really enjoys strongholds ( or someone who isn't just a diehard conquester that throws basic chairs and junkers lights to reach 100%) pointed out these issues on PTS. PTS needs to be accessible to all so feedback is from a more diverse group of player, not people that bioware likes. At the very least, there needs to be a public period before things come out. I can't imagine that bioware couldn't have remedied some of these stronghold issues if they heard about them in PTS phase.

Manaan has a lot of great elements to it, but a lot missed opportunities as well. Hopefully bioware will take our stuff under advisement and maybe put new suggestions into it in an upcoming patch to make manaan better. At the very least, PLEASE take this information with them when designing the next stronghold.

They should ask the testers (if they had any) why they approved of this stronghold. Anyone that actually does decorating in this game would see flaws instantly. The placement of the starship hook, the design of the entry pad, the few rooms, the design of the rooms using hooks, the bad options for lightning.....the list goes on.

And finally what bugs me the most, the stronghold could have been awesome, more then awesome if they actually used the area that is already there and the rooms within the sealed building.

I spent six weeks to get my Yavin stronghold right and I really looked foward to a lot of work with Manaan. I placed three decorations, removed them and deactivated the stronghold.

Perhaps they will react when their new Manaan cartel market items will not sell since barely nobody cares about the unfinished stronghold.

It is unfortunate and perhaps a bit sloppy that they have left those inaccessible elements in the stronghold. It is however well big enough, not everyone likes these huge fortresses that we have so many of already.

Indeed! I'd love even smaller stronghold's but with good hooks.

It is unfortunate and a bit sloppy that they have left those inaccessible elements in the stronghold. It is however well big enough, not everyone likes these huge fortresses that we have so many of already. Hook placement could be better though.

I agree.

It is unfortunate and a bit sloppy that they have left those inaccessible elements in the stronghold. It is however well big enough, not everyone likes these huge fortresses that we have so many of already. Hook placement could be better though.

This is true. However, if they're going to make the purchase price the same as the huge fortresses, it darned well better be as big as the huge fortresses.

As it stands, this stronghold is NOT worth 2.5 million credits/2500cc for initial purchase, and the expansions are NOT worth the prices they put on them, either.

And finally what bugs me the most, the stronghold could have been awesome, more then awesome if they actually used the area that is already there and the rooms within the sealed building

Literally all they had to do was copy/paste the already present hallway and extend it into the sealed buildings and make rooms.

Not only that, they could've effortlessly made that archway shown in image 1, giving a huge expansion to what we have now.

People may argue that sure, the stronghold is big enough. Sure its big--however its not big enough for the price i paid for it. 70-80% of the stronghold is outside too. i'd rather be limited to inside rooms rather than one giant outside one; one that, for a majority, is useless apart from the outside fountains. How hard is it to add like two or three rooms? Who would decline an extra three rooms? You can't get 100% in this stronghold without filling every single BS hook there is, causing it to look trashy. An extra 2-3 rooms would fix this issue and people would be happy. If people want a small stronghold then they can choose not to unlock it or they can cry themselves all the way back to Coruscant or Dromund Kaas

I want what I paid for--something I barely get in this game.

Excellent work proving that Manaan's development was suddenly cut and the SH was just pushed out the door unfinished.

If only you saw how much more there actually is that is unfinished

Maybe i'll show you some time; or perhaps i'll update this thread later with more screenshots.

(Assuming I don't get banned from forums or anything for showing this)

Your name makes me giggle

"Slayer of the Square Trapezoid" hahahahaha

I'm kind of mixed on the new stronghold.

I don't really mind spending 8 million for what is already there. I can easily rake in that money within a week of selling prefabs on the GTN. It doesn't bother me.

What bothers me slightly is that the SH feels slightly incomplete and that the hook placement can be completely missing any serious logic. One example is the penthouse/rooftop garden area. There is a large gap between the medium floor hook and the narrow floor hook in the corners. There'd easily be room for a large floor hook there. Why can't the medium hook be turned into a large hook to place the Manaan office set there?

There are some pretty wide open spaces in the rooftop garden that can't really be decorated. It makes getting a "warm" and "full" feeling pretty difficult. Even the potted plants I have up there seem wide apart from the walls.

Secondly, there should be one or two more rooms. They can be small, but I'm missing something to make it click in that SH. It seems to be a very straightforward SH without anything to discover. The biggest part is the entrance. The lower underwater areas are very small. The upstairs area doesn't contain a single small room. It's just one big room.

What I'm missing is two things: A submarine hangar in the lower levels and a dome-room with a full ceiling that can see the ocean. In my opinion, Manaan should have some more underwater areas. A small, glass-ceiling hallway that leads to a submarine hangar or something for a total unlock of 1 million credits. Add some hooks for plants and personnel in that hallway. The sides are full of fish and algae. And if you pay very close attention to the distant ocean, you might even be able to spot the Progenitor as a slight easter egg. The canon approach is that Revan saved her, after all.

Finally, the hallway connects to a small submarine hangar. It doesn't have to be much. A small area with some diving suits on the walls, an exit hatch on the far end, and a submarine resting in a water filled area in front of that hatch. A few small, medium and large hooks, and a good ceiling hook to place a dim light.

In my opinion, Manaan should do something more with the idea of "underwater base" than just a single "big room" divided by four doors. I was looking forward to make Manaan my mercenary's company building and add a living quarter for him, my Jedi knight and my smuggler. All the while, the smuggler and Jedi knight use the underwater areas as labs and archaelogical bases. Right now, I can't really do that. My Jedi has one small downstairs flat and there's a secret lab on the other side. My smuggler doesn't even have a room, there is no "storage area", and not even a submarine hangar to decorate as the unloading bay. The entrance and the penthouse is really all you're getting...

Your name makes me giggle

 

"Slayer of the Square Trapezoid" hahahahaha

Lol i was hoping some people would get it

This is true. However, if they're going to make the purchase price the same as the huge fortresses, it darned well better be as big as the huge fortresses.

 

As it stands, this stronghold is NOT worth 2.5 million credits/2500cc for initial purchase, and the expansions are NOT worth the prices they put on them, either.

When Strongholds arrived in game, 2.5 million credits was much more significant than it is today. Obviously, players can opt to use Cartel Coins instead, but it's important for strongholds to be somewhat of a credit sink in the game.

I'm not overly critical about this new SH. Other players put more importance on this aspect than me, and I respect that. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future, after hearing the feedback, they make some changes. They usually add hooks later to every SH and perhaps they'll include access to some of the areas we can't go to right now. Keep in mind that they just increased the active SH limit to 6, so they may be keeping a close eye on overall performance as players add Manaan. If no real problems arise from the increased SH limit, maybe they have plans to "Open up" those areas (and add hooks) later.

They are asking for feedback. Give it to them.

Also, why are there hooks up here?? You literally can't even place on these unless you glitch up here. Useless stronghold.

http://imgur.com/a/bmOOP

 

Once again, no offense, but this had to be said Bioware. Please give us what we want for once.

-PS: If you patch this glitch I will be ticked off because its the only thing that makes the stronghold worth using.

You can place decos on those spots without glitching up there. Stand directly UNDER the hookpoint. That's how I placed decos there. You might need to get your mouse on the panel from a slight angle but under the hookpoint you can place decos on those spots.

You can place decos on those spots without glitching up there. Stand directly UNDER the hookpoint. That's how I placed decos there. You might need to get your mouse on the panel from a slight angle but under the hookpoint you can place decos on those spots.

It's useless though...

I have been waiting so freaking long for this stronghold, and get slapped in the face and robbed instead. Many people feel this way.

Ahaaa! I knew someone would write that stupid sentence. I don't know in which of the Manaan threads I predicted it, but honestly, it was an easy guess. Many people have swollen faces from all the slaps BW always gives them.

Please give us what we want for once.

Yeah, really, Bioware. Give them what they want for once. It's not that anyone ever asked for a Manaan stronghold and you gave them one. Give them something they want! Maybe a Manaan stronghold or so. It's your last chance to give your promise and provide a Manaan stronghold. If you don't offer a Manaan stronghold immediately, then. Listen up! And tell Keith.

Seriously: Ungrateful player is ungrateful. I like that the SH is small. In fact, it's still too big for my taste. The smaller, the faster the loading times. I'd be fine with a two room summer cottage as a SH. I thus completely disagree with the OP.

If people want a small stronghold then they can choose not to unlock it or they can cry themselves all the way back to Coruscant or Dromund Kaas

 

I want what I paid for--something I barely get in this game.

I think the biggest problem is that it is so obvious that the stronghold could have been so much better. I mean the areas are ACTUALLY THERE, even if we only can view them from a window.

That is why I really would like to know the DEVs thoughts about this stronghold. They can fix this stronghold by opening up the unavailable areas and create more rooms making it enjoyable for those that actually make it a challenge to decorate.

Perhaps it was pushed because sales wanted to earn money from the cartel packs containing decorations, I do not know but there sure is something fishy with this situatiuon.

Perhaps it was pushed because sales wanted to earn money from the cartel packs containing decorations, I do not know but there sure is something fishy with this situatiuon.

I find your use of pun.... disturbing:csw_vader:

I love this game, appreciate the work the devs do, and I'm not normally one to complain so, having been somewhat critical of the Iokath storyline when that came out, I feel a bit bad about now also criticising the Manaan stronghold. I've loved all the strongholds up till now, and didn't mind whether they were large or small, because I could be sure one or other of my characters' lifestyles would fit with whatever was on offer. But I'm very disappointed with the Manaan one. It may be fine for those who simply want to fill their stronghold with decorations for conquest purposes, but I buy strongholds for my characters to live in and my first shock was to discover that I got no rooms at all for my initial outlay. It's all very pretty, but a sprawling outdoor area suits a large, luxury dwelling, not a tiny house with fewer rooms than a Dromund Kaas or Coruscant apartment.

I had been looking forward to another stronghold coming out because I'd long felt that my sorcerer had no business still living on Dromund Kaas when he was the Alliance commander (and had actually said to Acina that it was a long time since he'd last been there). But the Manaan one isn't suited to being a dwelling at all: the upstairs room is more like an enormous open-plan office - it could easily have been split into two; the downstairs room, while looking very attractive with its glass floor, has very few useful hooks for furniture and lighting; and what I'd initially assumed was four small rooms leading off it (which I would have considered perfect for my purposes - bedrooms for my sorcerer and his closest companions), turned out to be two rooms, each with a double set of doors. Additionally, there's a great shortage of large standard hook arrangements indoors, where you can put things like lounge suites and have people standing near to them. I also discovered there are no low-level medium or large wall hooks, so when I tried placing one of my GTN wall terminals, I discovered that, even at its lowest setting, its screen was above my character's head so, realistically, he wouldn't have been able to see what he was trying to buy. So I'll have to fork out for a free standing one. That is if I even bother to continue furnishing this stronghold. I'm thinking I may well just leave him in his apartment until the Zakuul SH comes out, and hope that one's better thought out than this one.

As previous posters have said, the issues with this stronghold could nearly all be remedied simply by making the rest of it accessible (and moving the Starship hook, or providing a way up to it). It really does look like this was originally supposed to be a much larger affair, and that someone decreed it should be released in a half-finished state: everything about its aesthetics says it was intended to be a grand, palatial dwelling, but instead it's a 3-room apartment with an office on top.

I love this game, appreciate the work the devs do, and I'm not normally one to complain so, having been somewhat critical of the Iokath storyline when that came out, I feel a bit bad about now also criticising the Manaan stronghold. I've loved all the strongholds up till now, and didn't mind whether they were large or small, because I could be sure one or other of my characters' lifestyles would fit with whatever was on offer. But I'm very disappointed with the Manaan one. It may be fine for those who simply want to fill their stronghold with decorations for conquest purposes, but I buy strongholds for my characters to live in and my first shock was to discover that I got no rooms at all for my initial outlay. It's all very pretty, but a sprawling outdoor area suits a large, luxury dwelling, not a tiny house with fewer rooms than a Dromund Kaas or Coruscant apartment.

 

I had been looking forward to another stronghold coming out because I'd long felt that my sorcerer had no business still living on Dromund Kaas when he was the Alliance commander (and had actually said to Acina that it was a long time since he'd last been there). But the Manaan one isn't suited to being a dwelling at all: the upstairs room is more like an enormous open-plan office - it could easily have been split into two; the downstairs room, while looking very attractive with its glass floor, has very few useful hooks for furniture and lighting; and what I'd initially assumed was four small rooms leading off it (which I would have considered perfect for my purposes - bedrooms for my sorcerer and his closest companions), turned out to be two rooms, each with a double set of doors. Additionally, there's a great shortage of large standard hook arrangements indoors, where you can put things like lounge suites and have people standing near to them. I also discovered there are no low-level medium or large wall hooks, so when I tried placing one of my GTN wall terminals, I discovered that, even at its lowest setting, its screen was above my character's head so, realistically, he wouldn't have been able to see what he was trying to buy. So I'll have to fork out for a free standing one. That is if I even bother to continue furnishing this stronghold. I'm thinking I may well just leave him in his apartment until the Zakuul SH comes out, and hope that one's better thought out than this one.

 

As previous posters have said, the issues with this stronghold could nearly all be remedied simply by making the rest of it accessible (and moving the Starship hook, or providing a way up to it). It really does look like this was originally supposed to be a much larger affair, and that someone decreed it should be released in a half-finished state: everything about its aesthetics says it was intended to be a grand, palatial dwelling, but instead it's a 3-room apartment with an office on top.

I agree with what others have said.

I am pretty good at decorating these Strongholds but it was impossible to decorate the Manaan stronghold well and get it to 100%. In order to get it to 100% I had to make my SH overcrowded. I've never had this issue in any of the strongholds and I have all of them.

Manaan Stronghold issues and suggestions for improvement:

These are my overall issues/solutions. Next I'll mention some specific places in the SH that need addressing.

Issues

1. Too many open areas with no hooks, preventing us from spreading out decorations more and having more flexibility

2. Too few rooms, which makes it impossible to decorate this stronghold and not have it look crowded.

3. Many green hooks side by side that should be narrow blue to give us more flexibility

4. Proportion of outside to interior doesn't make sense especially since there are clearly other areas that exist already.

5. Location of SH exit is poorly placed.

Solutions

1. Add more hooks preferably blue square or purple to give us more options.

2. We need at least two more rooms to make the interior seem appropriate. I do like the idea oh a hangar area off to the side where the ship hook is currently placed.

3. Convert all those green hook pairs to narrow blue bars for more options.

4. Again give us access to more of the already rendered stronghold especially the interior.

5. Get our feedback on where best to put that SH exit.

Round platform at entry

This area definitely needs more hooks it looks like it has room for more purples probably four more to fill in the current gaps. At the very least a square blue or two in the gaps between the purples would add more flexibility.

Fountain areas along middle

There are tons of green squares all down the inside of the two rows of fountains. While that does give us lots of hooks it'd be better if those very blue narrows all along so that we have options to be benches along there or convert them to green squares.

Also we need the same amount of green squares on the outside of those fountains so we can place things on that side of the fountain. For example I'd like to have groups of NPCs along the inside area heading towards the doorway and some on the outer area of the fountain.

Underwater side rooms

In my opinion these two rooms are too small. But I understand that'd be much harder to change than to give us more interior regions elsewhere that have already been rendered. But it would be nice to at least get better hooks in there. Instead of so many green square give us blue squares all around the big centerpiece so we have more options of how to place things. Also I don't really understand how these rooms as small as they are warrant a centerpiece. That seems like a waste.

Underwater main room

We need more floor hooks here and again more of those green ones need to be at least blue narrow if not blue square. Also opposite the elevator we need a purple hook in place of those blue ones to give us a bit more options. I wanted to put a desk there but couldn't.

Upstairs "garden" room

Again this room needs way more hooks. Give us blue squares all around the center area and in place of the row of green squares give us blue narrow hooks. Down in the center area give us blue narrows next to the blue squares for more options.

Bugs:

1. The ceiling hooks in the underwater rooms aren't ceiling hooks they are wall hooks

2. If you reset one of these side rooms it resets the entire Stronghold