You can double up and have 6 extra seconds (3 from old pvp and 3 from new pvp sets) instead of a pve set bonus. Do you think this would be worth it for pve? the gain from cunning pve 72's is not worth the extra damage from 1 set bonus i do not think, but what about 2 set bonuses? it would make energy regen a little harder but is it worth it?

You can double up and have 6 extra seconds (3 from old pvp and 3 from new pvp sets) instead of a pve set bonus. Do you think this would be worth it for pve? the gain from cunning pve 72's is not worth the extra damage from 1 set bonus i do not think, but what about 2 set bonuses? it would make energy regen a little harder but is it worth it?

 

Have you tested this? Did your orbital tick 5 times (2 2-pc pvp bonus) instead of 4 (1 2-pc pvp bonus)?

I will test it when i get the gear. I just need to farm the comms but right now its a hypothetical.

 

edit: i do no that the bonus from the new pvp set as i have 1 piece does not add onto the bonus of the other

Edited April 30, 2013 by CoppertheBeagle

I can confirm that it does, at least for smugglers (though it shouldn't be different for agents):

http://www.torparse.com/l/201725

 

As far as I see it, it's worth it to go for double added Flyby/Orbital ticks. Energy regen will only really be very, very slightly harder; the thing with the 2-piece PvE bonus is that it never really added much at all, and the only thing making it harder being without it is simply the fact that it's something you got used to .

 

Edit: And in terms of "Worth it when it comes to the cunning loss?"; if it's worth sacrificing the 4-piece bonus to get one extra tick (which is what seems to be the word on the forums, and what I've been going by for a while), then I'd say it's worth doing the same to the 2-piece for another.

Edited April 30, 2013 by diadox

Have played around with this slightly as i have the EWH 2 pc and the new partisan 2 pc set bonuses, imo it is definitely worth it if you are running full MM as you will have an up time of 33% on your orb strike, with it lasting 15 seconds and having a cool down of 45. The loss in main stat is minimal and almost unnoticed as it is barely a loss of about 30 bonus damage.

Can't believe I didn't think of this earlier.. working on the comms right now

a follow up question, would this make it worthwhile to take 1 point out of either the top of the marksman tree or out of the crit chance in the lethality tree to boost up the aoe damage in the middle tree?

You can double up and have 6 extra seconds (3 from old pvp and 3 from new pvp sets) instead of a pve set bonus. Do you think this would be worth it for pve? the gain from cunning pve 72's is not worth the extra damage from 1 set bonus i do not think, but what about 2 set bonuses? it would make energy regen a little harder but is it worth it?

 

wait, what

 

edit: Oh, but you'd lose the 5m of takedown. Screw that. I guess maybe for PvE?

Edited May 1, 2013 by islander

I have been trying to play around with any and all possible hybrid builds for the sniper/gunslinger. From the testing i have done if you want to run with this idea of the 15 second orb stirke, you would want to run with full MM as sniper volley/burst volley is an absolute must if you are playing MM.

 

Also if you want to try out this spec for pve, i have played with this one http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/sniper#1211123021211122022200322-320-32

as it is lots of fun.

Yeah i see that but with the alacrity you gain from deadly directive, that should definitely go in explosive engineering i believe. i was saying that if you wanted all 3 points in explosive engineering it might be worth it to go 2 points in lethality instead of 3. i was just wondering if it would pay off

Theorycrafting fun!

 

5 ticks of Orbital instead of 3 (no pvp bonus) or 4 (1 2-pc pvp bonus).. in HM SnV

 

I can see the extra ticks as a good "safety net" to make sure your OS will hit as much adds as they can. Titan-6, Thrasher Snipers, pre-cast in Operations Chief to hit the probes, EXTRA TICKS on Olok the Shadow's puzzle phase on droids that are adjacent to each other, and the extra tick useful in Styrak's various "phases" as well (the phase where adds close in on you comes to mind).

 

In HM TFB, pre-casting earlier for the jealous male adds in Writhing horror, more ticks on DG Council if your raid decides to just screw mechanics and stack the bosses up for AoE, extra ticks in between Operator boss phases, extra tick on the final burn phase of Kephess and Terror From Beyond.

 

I can imagine the extra tick will be useful for burn phases or soft enrages. In those 1-3 minute burn phases, i'd imagine the extra tick will contribute more than the extra ~40 cunning. If that last tick of Orbital hits (and if you can use it twice in one burn phase (especially as MM who have their OS at 45 seconds), that is around 14,000 more damage in my gear.

 

A) I think the extra tick will benefit MM greatly due to their fast casted and 45 sec OS.

 

B) Engineering Snipers have the luxury of having 2 talents that buff OS (which should comprise at least 10% of their single target sustained dmg). If you look at this pie chart for the 2951 arkanian gear dummy parse http://i.imgur.com/C2Fyn40.png Orbital Strike is up there in your priority list if you check out the % of damage done.

 

 

1. Scatter Bomb
   
2. SoS
   
3. OS = PP = Snipe
   
4. IP = EP + Cluster Bombs
   
5. CD
   

 

An extra Orbital tick may be a good choice for Engineering.

 

C) Lethality/Hybrid.. now that I am not sure of. I may prefer keeping my 2-pc PVE bonus just because I have the most energy problems with this spec. I'm not saying that there ARE energy problems with this spec, but i find that i have come to rely on the energy boost that the 2-pc pve bonus gives when im trying to push my DPS.

Edited May 1, 2013 by paowee

I agree with you on that. The hybrid spec is very difficult to energy manage but i spent some time figuring that stuff out and actually its not too terrible without it. it definitely requires much more energy management awareness but its not that bad.

 

My question is 1% ranged and tech crit worth giving up to increase the damage of orbital strike and explosive probe by 5% and is the 10% boost worth it instead of the 2% alacrity.

Theorycrafting fun!

 

5 ticks of Orbital instead of 3 (no pvp bonus) or 4 (1 2-pc pvp bonus).. in HM SnV

 

I can see the extra ticks as a good "safety net" to make sure your OS will hit as much adds as they can. Titan-6, Thrasher Snipers, pre-cast in Operations Chief to hit the probes, EXTRA TICKS on Olok the Shadow's puzzle phase on droids that are adjacent to each other, and the extra tick useful in Styrak's various "phases" as well (the phase where adds close in on you comes to mind).

 

In HM TFB, pre-casting earlier for the jealous male adds in Writhing horror, more ticks on DG Council if your raid decides to just screw mechanics and stack the bosses up for AoE, extra ticks in between Operator boss phases, extra tick on the final burn phase of Kephess and Terror From Beyond.

 

I can imagine the extra tick will be useful for burn phases or soft enrages. In those 1-3 minute burn phases, i'd imagine the extra tick will contribute more than the extra ~40 cunning. If that last tick of Orbital hits (and if you can use it twice in one burn phase (especially as MM who have their OS at 45 seconds), that is around 14,000 more damage in my gear.

 

If you want to get all 5 ticks to hit, you need adds to live/the boss to stand still for

a) 16-17 seconds, or

b) at LEAST 12 seconds, and you can pre-cast so your first tick hits as the adds spawn/get into position.

 

Observations from my experiences with these fights:

--Titan 6: The adds live for 10 seconds max. If they're up for 12 seconds it's because a healer forgot to run to the orbitals. It would be a nice benefit in case that does happen, but most times it will be wasted.

--Thrasher: The adds are all dead within 9 seconds of being vulnerable. Currently, my 3rd tick of OS will tend to hit when only 1-2 of the snipers are still alive, and 3s after that they're all dead.

--Operations Chief: The probes die within 9 seconds.

--Olok: Definitely a benefit. Even if the first target dies before the 5th tick, the second should still be alive.

--Styrek: I don't think that particular add lives 12 seconds for us. I could be wrong though, it would be a tremendous effort for me to look through and find out, given that everything in that fight is named the same thing and I'd have to guess from delays between ability activations.

--Horror: It would be nice to be able to precast soon after the male spawns and be sure you'll catch a tick or two on the adds. Obviously, they won't live to catch 4-5 ticks.

--Dread Guard: Seeing as they full heal when one dies, I don't consider splash damage on the other bosses worthwhile damage. It's only there to inflate parses.

--Kephess: You won't get 5 ticks to hit him while he's vulnerable in the first 2 phases, but it's a nice bit of extra damage you can preload for the final burn.

 

Basically, I don't see 2 2pc PVP bonuses as a benefit for bringing down adds, as adds don't live long enough to get hit by them all anyways. I DO think that, as long as you don't need the 2pc pve bonus for energy management, it will be worth it for single-target DPS, just don't expect to see huge damage increases from add phases

 

Of course, your raid may have less AoE than mine does. If you're doing most of the AoE damage for your raid with your orbital strike, you may see a bigger benefit than I would, particularly on things like writhing horror adds and titan probes.

Edited May 1, 2013 by namesaretough

snip

 

Hello everydayimsmugglin http://www.torparse.com/a/198549/16:jawa_tongue:

 

I was waiting to and expecting to see the counter arguments you mentioned lol I agree with you in that if the purpose of the extra tick is to make Orbital do more damage on adds, the double 2pc pvp in reality wouldn't really be accomplish this purpose because adds die too fast anyway in current content. For example:

 

- Dashroode = bleeeghhh

- Titan 6 In my raid, adds are usually at 5-10% by my 3rd tick. We mostly have 2 maras, 2 mercs and 2 snipers (me included) so AoE is kept at a minimum in between everyone's smash,sweeping slashes, nades, DFas and orbitals.

- Thrasher, Snipers are dead before my 4th tick drops

- Olok = 5 ticks definitely worth it

- Cartel = serves only to inflate DPS**

- Styrak = see Dashroode*

 

- Writhing Horror = adds die in 3 ticks

- Council = see Cartel**

- Operator IX = might be useful in 16-man at least. There are double the number of adds in between immunity phases.

- Kephess = that is why i mentioned "final" burn phase only. It could still be useful during the earlier phases for single target dps but that is why we need to test and parse it first on the dummy!***

- TFB = see Kephess***

 

For single target DPS are 5 ticks of OS (if you can get all of them to hit) better than minus 40 cunning? Will need math people and accurate parses for sure. I for one will parse this "5 ticks of Orbital PVE build" and will post my results here.

 

IF we find that 5 OS ticks is indeed > than 40 Cunning, there is a second argument. Not all bosses are stationary. If that's the case then it will all boil down to personal preference. Play it safe with 40 Cunning all the time? Or play riskier and try to use OS on CD and try to get all 5 ticks to hit?

Edited May 2, 2013 by paowee

My idea for 5 ticks instead of 4 was for the bosses. The damage done by orbital is much more than the damage done by many other moves. The add phases i didn't think were particularly useful but i do agree that bosses that move a lot make this less worthwhile. i might run with 2 sets and have those bosses with 1 pvp set and 1 pve set or maybe even 2 and 4 pve set.

 

edit: What im getting at is if it is worth it for single target dps. I just recently switched to marksman as my raid team needed a higher burst for adds but i do not have the rotation nearly down yet. I was hoping someone could also help me parse to see the damage difference from a more experienced gunslinger. I hit a little more for hybrid but not enough to make it worthwhile as it coulda been the difference of a crit from a few parses.

Edited May 1, 2013 by CoppertheBeagle

edit: What im getting at is if it is worth it for single target dps..

 

You can test it yourself if you can not wait for other people's results . We are all guessing right now until someone shows up with good math or a good parse that we can scrutinize and determine if it is accurate.

Edited May 1, 2013 by paowee

snip.

 

Also do you mind posting your stats? When you get the time. Thanks!

Edited May 1, 2013 by paowee

My stats buffed and stimmed with a reusable nano-infused are

 

primary 1299-1650

sec 123-228

bonus 890.0

accuracy 97.48

crit 28.08%

crit multiplier 73.07%

 

I know my accuracy needs to be higher but i just grabbed all the new stuff i could. im working on it to get it to 100% or close to it. I just did 2 short parses, the second and the fourth, the first and the 3rd were just screwups but here are my results with. I am about to try without.

http://www.torparse.com/a/203853

Hello everydayimsmugglin http://www.torparse.com/a/198549/16:jawa_tongue:

Looks like you found half a fight there... if you add in the second phase that number's a lot smaller

 

IF we find that 5 OS ticks is indeed > than 40 Cunning, there is a second argument. Not all bosses are stationary. If that's the case then it will all boil down to personal preference. Play it safe with 40 Cunning all the time? Or play riskier and try to use OS on CD and try to get all 5 ticks to hit?

 

On the one hand, 12 seconds is a LONG time. On the other, I think you'll be fine for everyone but Kephess in TFB, and at least the first 4 and last boss in SV, if you're using OS on the bosses. I don't have the old pvp bonus, unfortunately, but I'm working on getting Conq pieces to use the new one.

 

Also do you mind posting your stats? When you get the time. Thanks!

 

Sure thing. Buffed I'm at

3361 cunning

1486-1863 pri, 132-245 sec

1046 bonus damage (1500 bonus tech)

97.34% acc (230 rating)

23.2% crit (0 rating)

74.11% surge (525 rating)

Underworld BA and SA relics

As a hybrid sniper, there really is only 2 fights where I find it impossible to get 4 ticks of orbital on the boss every 70 seconds or so. Kephess, because he is practically moving the whole time and even his mini burn phases with the pillars don't last very long. Cartel Warlords, because Vilus and Sunder move constantly. The other fights I'm not having a problem getting down orbital strike when I want too.

Snip

 

In all reality, the extra 2 ticks will be situational to the raid in comparison to the loss of stats in the long run. For instance; in our raid (of which smuggling is a part of) we have 5 Gunslingers, 1 dps scoundrel and 2 scoundrel healers. That is 6 OS' on add groups and 8 if healers don't need to heal. For our 16 man we would have to look solely at the single target dps of the ability. Furthermore we would have to make sure OS is cast with enough time to finish (What happens if the CD of the ability comes off with the transition timing clipping the last 2 ticks?)

 

Another thing to note, if the idea is to keep the X2 2 piece bonus we will be loosing more cunning in the next tier of gear. The only two specs that could potentially maintain it would be MM or Engineering (I am ignoring the hybrid due to energy costs).

In all reality, the extra 2 ticks will be situational to the raid in comparison to the loss of stats in the long run.

Yep you are right. There is a follow-up to his post in the previous page

would have to look solely at the single target dps of the ability.

That is what we're trying to see and hoping people would parse this out and post their logs

 

Furthermore we would have to make sure OS is cast with enough time to finish (What happens if the CD of the ability comes off with the transition timing clipping the last 2 ticks?)

Imo it's effectiveness single target will solely be dependent on the player and how well he/she can squeeze 5 orbital ticks in in between raid and boss mechanics. Will definitely require some active pre-emptive raiding! That is why to keep things more objective, we are trying to talk (and will determine in a bit after people parse it) if in current content,

 

5 ticks of Orbital is more single target DPS than ~40 Cunning on a single target sustained training dummy fight.

 

Another thing to note, if the idea is to keep the X2 2 piece bonus we will be loosing more cunning in the next tier of gear.

IF in next tier of gear the Cunning loss goes up to an extent that will make 5 ticks of orbital on a single target obsolete, then we can swap our gear.

In not so many words, my point is that the extra ticks will be purely subjective regardless of what the numbers end up telling us.

That is not true. what the numbers will tell us is if to get the max dps out of a gunslinger is that the ideal set up. I am currently raiding with it and i can tell you its pretty good so far. I definitely notice a difference between the 9 seconds and the 15 seconds. I am still learning my new spec tho so I am not amazing on my parses.

 

Does any1 know if simulationcraft is being updated?

@everydayimsmuglin

 

OFFTOPIC: how do you get your parse to show only the actual boss fight of the encounter? i've noticed some people can do this as well. for example golden fury, operations chief and olok the shadow. your torparse/statistics log shows

 

Began at Olok (P2) http://www.torparse.com/a/202145/25

20:55:09.948 Evrydayimsmggln enters combat.

20:55:09.966 Evrydayimsmggln loses Sprint.

20:55:09.970 Evrydayimsmggln gains 100 threat on Olok the Shadow.

20:55:10.444 Evrydayimsmggln activates Speed Shot.

 

whereas mine shows (P1) http://www.torparse.com/a/202534/1

20:29:00.409 B'oarder enters combat.

20:29:00.447 B'oarder loses Sprint.

20:29:01.414 B'oarder activates Orbital Strike.

20:29:03.053 B'oarder gains 1000 threat on Bodyguard.

20:29:03.211 B'oarder gains 1000 threat on Bodyguard.

Edited May 2, 2013 by paowee