Who would win in a war, the Rakata infinite empire or Darth Sidious's empire?

From Wooki

 

"Due to the limitations of the Rakatan hyperdrive technology, the Infinite Empire consisted of only 500 worlds"

 

So given this is not unreasonable to say that other technologies will be quite inferior to the Galactic Empire. The Galactic Empire had 1.5 million conquered worlds and 69 million colonies so there is no competition in size. While I find the Infinite Empire interesting, there is no contest here who would win.

Well at their height most Rakata were force users, so it's not as simple an arguement as it first seems, if the Rakata could get some of the more advances Tech, they could probably reverse engineer it. Remember their tech was far ahead of republic tech in Kotor, so it's not as big a leap as you might imagine, just that their Hypertech was not as advanced as the rest (mother machine, self-repairing droids, self-repairing maps, Star Forge).

Well at their height most Rakata were force users, so it's not as simple an arguement as it first seems, if the Rakata could get some of the more advances Tech, they could probably reverse engineer it. Remember their tech was far ahead of republic tech in Kotor, so it's not as big a leap as you might imagine, just that their Hypertech was not as advanced as the rest (mother machine, self-repairing droids, self-repairing maps, Star Forge).

 

Right but the Galactic Empire had the Death Star which could literally destroy Lehon and they had some other massively powerful super weapons as well. Plus I think the Rakata force users are nothing compared to the Empire's force users. Whenever Darth Vader shows up it's an automatic victory and all those other Dark Side Adapts are also above Rakata guys. Then there's always Darth Sidious lurking in the background. Don't get me wrong I consider the Infinite Empire to be more successful and innovative (because of the portion of the timeline in which they occur) but in a war with both Empires at their peaks (and they can't share stuff) I take Galactic

"Due to the limitations of the Rakatan hyperdrive technology, the Infinite Empire consisted of only 500 worlds"

 

So basically the Rakatan have superior technology vs the Imperial's superior numbers.

HOWEVER, the Star Forges are capable of producing an incredible amount of droids and ships - so this might actually be a more even fight than you'd think.

So basically the Rakatan have superior technology vs the Imperial's superior numbers.

HOWEVER, the Star Forges are capable of producing an incredible amount of droids and ships - so this might actually be a more even fight than you'd think.

 

Except the Galactic Empire has superior technology.

 

I am not underestimating Star Forge. In the Galactic Empire, a military society/culture, with 1.5 million conquered worlds and 69 million colonies, don't you think there would be a significant percentage of worlds manufacturing something to keep that military might going? Note that it is stated in the SWTOR Galactic Timeline that the Sith Emperor wanted Revan & Malak to get the Star Forge to put his war with the Republic ahead of schedule, not immediately. I feel that the significant numbers make up and maybe exceed what the Star Forge can put out

 

Edit: And I think there was only one Star Forge, not multiple

Edited November 13, 2013 by sell-dog

The Star Forge and the Foundry could certainly help the Rakatans in closing the gap, but the most important thing to realise is that the Galactic Empire had 25,000 Star Destroyers over-all, which is a staggering navy, by far the largest ever built, the KotOR CG claims that Malak's empire at it's height contained about 500 Interdictor-class Cruisers and that was the Star Forge working at 200%.

The Star Forge and the Foundry could certainly help the Rakatans in closing the gap, but the most important thing to realise is that the Galactic Empire had 25,000 Star Destroyers over-all, which is a staggering navy, by far the largest ever built, the KotOR CG claims that Malak's empire at it's height contained about 500 Interdictor-class Cruisers and that was the Star Forge working at 200%.

 

Yeah, I should have said 'Rakatan Space Station' not Star Forges, my bad.

 

Also, I suspect that the Galactic Empire would win but that it would a be pyrrhic victory - the Empire would be reduced to something more akin to Fel's Empire (which only control rather than it's peak 10-0 BBY.

Edited November 13, 2013 by AshlaBoga

Right but the Galactic Empire had the Death Star which could literally destroy Lehon and they had some other massively powerful super weapons as well.

 

Both Deathstars were in operation for very small period of time, First Deathstar was barely weeks as fully operational, before it got blown up, Second Deathstar was not even finished. The other superweapons had similar problems, in that they were in use for small periods before being scrapped (exceptions like world devatators do occur).

 

In short you can't use most of these as part of the Galactic Empire Arsenal unless they were in use for at least several months. That said the few that do qualify would cause significant problems.

In short you can't use most of these as part of the Galactic Empire Arsenal unless they were in use for at least several months.

 

When did that rule get made?

From Wooki

 

"Due to the limitations of the Rakatan hyperdrive technology, the Infinite Empire consisted of only 500 worlds"

 

So given this is not unreasonable to say that other technologies will be quite inferior to the Galactic Empire. The Galactic Empire had 1.5 million conquered worlds and 69 million colonies so there is no competition in size. While I find the Infinite Empire interesting, there is no contest here who would win.

 

Speaking of limited hyperdrive technology. The Rakata are severely limited in regards to hyperspace travel. I will have to pull out my Warfare, but I believe it said that the Rakata could only travel to worlds strong in the Force or worlds with hyperspace (or Force beacons, not sure) beacons.

The Star Forge and the Foundry could certainly help the Rakatans in closing the gap, but the most important thing to realise is that the Galactic Empire had 25,000 Star Destroyers over-all, which is a staggering navy, by far the largest ever built, the KotOR CG claims that Malak's empire at it's height contained about 500 Interdictor-class Cruisers and that was the Star Forge working at 200%.

 

Were all 25,000 Star Destroyers made at Kuat? I believe that's what it said on the Wookiee, but I have my doubts.

When did that rule get made?

 

Just now, lol.

 

It's common sense, it's the Galactic Empire, but unless you specify that it's the Galactic Empire in the Week with the Deathstar then it's skewed. Not saying no superweapons, just that there had to be a reasonable chance they were around. Plenty of superweapons that fit that bill though.

I think we should be careful to make such broad assumptions about the Infinite Empire when we possess such little information on them, especially given the fact that what little information we have indicates the opposite.

 

The Infinite Empire technologically inferior? Is that not a contradiction in terms in itself? In terms of hyperspace technology perhaps but did the Empire ever discover have to terraform worlds? How to create factories of endless mass production? To create entirely new species? The Rakata were incredibly advanced and most of the Empire's technology originates from them, but fails to achieve their lofty heights. We cannot assume that they are simply a race of savages with a few flashy factories. All their technology is Force-based and because of that I'd assume it to be superior to anything non-force based and extremely potent when applied aggressively.

 

We know that they were armed with Force based energy shields and energy weapons which likely had similar properties to a lightsaber, and this was standard armament. And likely impenetrable via standard blaster technology. On top of that they could create laser beams out of the stuff, and I expect that was incredibly potent as well and significantly superior to any heavy weaponry the Empire had. And again this is standard armament, or so its implied. How do you feel an army of Force empowered beings all armed with effective lightsabers and impenetrable energy shields would fare against stormtroopers? I'd say they turn them into chopped liver, and then some.

 

Outside the scope of personal weaponry, we know the Rakata had planet destroying technology. And we know that they were powerful enough to imprison monsters such as the World Razer, and according to the Kwa were responsible for the downfall of the Celestials. The all powerful god like beings who could move star systems, the beings who the Rakata inherited technology from. A tenth of their power would be enough to rival the Empire, but clearly the Rakata had a lot more than that if the Celestials believed them a threat and were eventually proven right.

 

Now concerning Force sensitivity, I'd be interested to know where this concept originates that they were at all 'weak' in the Force when all evidence indicates they were in fact very powerful. One needs to be strong in the Force to be able to have every piece of one's technology sustained by it. And if immensely powerful beings such as Soa are any indication they were very strong indeed. Some more than others no doubt but overall likely superior to the average Force adept of the Empire, and I'm sure many could more than challenge Vader, Soa certainly could.

 

So what do we have here? A empire comprised entirely of powerful Force users armed with Force-based energy shields and practical lightsabers with technology so incredibly advanced that much of the Empire regarded it to be fabricated myth and possessing enough strength to destroy the most powerful race of beings the galaxy ever knew.

 

I'd say they have a pretty good chance against the Empire, I'd say they'd win.

One needs to be strong in the Force to be able to have every piece of one's technology sustained by it.

 

They used crystals to focus the Force in their weapons and shields.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Aurbere

They used crystals to focus the Force in their weapons and shields.

And what is it that they are focusing? Force energy provided by the Rakata. Only a Jedi can build a lightsaber and I expect Rakatan technology operates much the same as certain Sith synthetic crystals which fail if the user's connection to the dark side, much like the technology of the Rakata failed when they lost their Force sensitivity. Now it may not take a great deal of strength to power a lightsaber, but what about a machine that can terraform worlds? Or one of the Star Forges? I expect these require immense amounts of Force energy to operate and perhaps even to control. This Force energy didn't appear out of nowhere, it was generated by the Rakata.

The Star Forge and the Foundry could certainly help the Rakatans in closing the gap, but the most important thing to realise is that the Galactic Empire had 25,000 Star Destroyers over-all, which is a staggering navy, by far the largest ever built, the KotOR CG claims that Malak's empire at it's height contained about 500 Interdictor-class Cruisers and that was the Star Forge working at 200%.

I thought it was around 1,000... what given that the Republic Navy was around 900 at its fullest strength.

 

Anyway we have to remember that that was after less than three years of construction, from scratch. If they really did have only 500 they'd have a navy as large as the Empire in a dozen years, but I expect they'd have it in half.

And what is it that they are focusing? Force energy provided by the Rakata. Only a Jedi can build a lightsaber and I expect Rakatan technology operates much the same as certain Sith synthetic crystals which fail if the user's connection to the dark side, much like the technology of the Rakata failed when they lost their Force sensitivity. Now it may not take a great deal of strength to power a lightsaber, but what about a machine that can terraform worlds? Or one of the Star Forges? I expect these require immense amounts of Force energy to operate and perhaps even to control. This Force energy didn't appear out of nowhere, it was generated by the Rakata.

 

Only Revan and Malak had the strength to control the Star Forge, that's explained in Kotor 2, (Non Canon, of course, because it requires Revan be darkside, but I say we consider it.) It's also hinted at in Kotor.

 

Oh, and go call the kaggath damnit.

Only Revan and Malak had the strength to control the Star Forge, that's explained in Kotor 2, (Non Canon, of course, because it requires Revan be darkside, but I say we consider it.) It's also hinted at in Kotor.

 

Oh, and go call the kaggath damnit.

Ah yes, I think in the dark side version it stopped working when Revan left for the Unknown Regions.

 

And as we all know Revan > Everyone.

Ah yes, I think in the dark side version it stopped working when Revan left for the Unknown Regions.

 

And as we all know Revan > Everyone.

Not just that, she said anyone who tried to control it fell to it's power.

 

There is no one left with the power to control the forge, though many have tried. I have watched them be devoured, their life drained from them as they try to tap into its power....

 

Oh, she also said that using it could mean the end of the sith and the force... But I think that's just annoying preachy Jedi bastilla creeping back in there.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Selenial

Not just that, she said anyone who tried to control it fell to it's power.

Fools!

And what is it that they are focusing? Force energy provided by the Rakata. Only a Jedi can build a lightsaber and I expect Rakatan technology operates much the same as certain Sith synthetic crystals which fail if the user's connection to the dark side, much like the technology of the Rakata failed when they lost their Force sensitivity. Now it may not take a great deal of strength to power a lightsaber, but what about a machine that can terraform worlds? Or one of the Star Forges? I expect these require immense amounts of Force energy to operate and perhaps even to control. This Force energy didn't appear out of nowhere, it was generated by the Rakata.

 

Interesting that an interesting factoid would elicit such a response. In debate mode, are we?

 

Either way, I'm sure I could post a list of things the Galactic Empire has that the Rakata doesn't have. But where would that get us?

Interesting that an interesting factoid would elicit such a response. In debate mode, are we?

 

Either way, I'm sure I could post a list of things the Galactic Empire has that the Rakata doesn't have. But where would that get us?

Yup, keep up.

 

And you could try, but you'd find little/nothing. Regardless the point I am making is that the Infinite Empire are clearly not technologically inferior and in fact one of the most advanced races in the history of the galaxy.

Yup, keep up.

 

And you could try, but you'd find little/nothing.

 

Don't tempt me.

 

But I do agree that the Rakata are highly advanced.

I thought it was around 1,000... what given that the Republic Navy was around 900 at its fullest strength.

 

Anyway we have to remember that that was after less than three years of construction, from scratch. If they really did have only 500 they'd have a navy as large as the Empire in a dozen years, but I expect they'd have it in half.

 

That is only the Interdictor class vessels, they still had the Republic fleet and other vessels to make up the rest of their navy.