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Should Bioware buff Voltaic slash?


TrakonBazzaak

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Im currently leveling a deception assassin as my alt, Dps Guardian being my main.

 

Im lvl 45, looking up at voltaic slash, and its calling to me.

 

My current spec is 0/25/11

 

All the guides ive read seem to say the same thing.

 

Voltaic slash sucks, its a waste of a point and the best specs are all hybrids. With a good amount of players also using full tank, or full madness...

 

So my question to the rest of you deception assassins out there is..

 

Do you think Voltaic slash should be buffed to increase the viability of full deception, or are you happy with the current menu of specs people are using?

Edited by TrakonBazzaak
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In short, no they should not. Volactic slash synegizes with other key deception abilities. You actually wont see deception come into its own until you gear up a tad, i didnt see a huge return until i got more than halfway in war hero gear, however now that I'm rocking WH in most slots i can tell you that at least 31 points in deception (i have something like 0/33/13) its actually quite worth it. Remember that deception's key points is burst damage against a single target. Vol slash buffs shock in both reduction of cast cost, and damage. Coupled with a 2-3 charge discharge, overcharge saber, and reck, you will find that it is quite a decent attack. Against the average player VS hits for 900-1000 each, and should be used x 2 to get your buff. I tend to stealth>spike>vol slashx2, and putz around with saber strike once or twice until i get a maul proc. Low slash>maul>reck/overcharge>discharge>shock>assassinate and they're generally toast.

 

The mark of a good player is one who adjusts their strategy depending on the class/person they are fighting. Deception makes a good subspec for 17 poitns to get 30% reduced aoe (make smash lolable), force regen, larger maul hits, and buffed blackout.

 

Plain and simple: dont worry too much about the damage of an ability, they are all fairly well balanced around your gear. Worry more about what that ability does with the rest of your spec and how you intend to use it.

 

 

Im currently leveling a deception assassin as my alt, Dps Guardian being my main.

 

Im lvl 45, looking up at voltaic slash, and its calling to me.

 

My current spec is 0/25/11

 

All the guides ive read seem to say the same thing.

 

Voltaic slash sucks, its a waste of a point and the best specs are all hybrids. With a good amount of players also using full tank, or full madness...

 

So my question to the rest of you deception assassins out there is..

 

Do you think Voltaic slash should be buffed to increase the viability of full deception, or are you happy with the current menu of specs people are using?

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I play 2/31/8 - with 2 points in Thrashing blades so VS deals a bit more damage.

 

If you're just looking to pve with this build then that's fine. As the other poster said, its all about dealing damage fast. Sometimes you can deal huge burst damage and kill your foe within seconds.

 

However, if you are looking to pvp as a new lvl 50, then I would suggest NOT to use this until you are least full BM with some WH elements in terms of gear as you just wont deal that much damage.

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I don't know, but you might consider running a build that has death field with deception. It gives you significantly better range against the massive kiting that is going on especially if you don't find the 30% shock damage buff easy to hit.

 

I personally think in my few days playing the hybrid build that the 30% damage boost with Voltaic is highly underrated in pure burst. Death field is great if you are struggling to close range, interupt caps, or need to be more backrow, but you give up a lot of pure burst with shock to get a ranged attack. We do have recklessness FL.

 

I think voltaic does ok damage and it replaces thrash in my build well. It helps to proc maul. If you are going to take 2-3 points in darkness take the Armor Penetration.

 

You should always check your abilities to understand exactly how they will perform in game.

 

Voltaic Slash, Maul and Assassinate, are weapon attacks with for an assassin is a kinetic attack. So it’s a white damage attack applied against Defense (can be shielded), and it is mitigated by armor.

 

Shock, Force Lightning and discharge are ranged Force energy attacks. So it’s a Yellow damage attack applied against Resistance (ignoring Defense and Shields), but it is mitigated by armor.

 

So as you can see all of these attacks can be boosted against the opponents AR by 9%.

 

If you look at the damage reduction vs armor rating chart for armor on jedilace.com You'll see that equates roughly to 3% more damage on all your main assassin attacks.

 

Give or take depending on 9%. If you like entropic fields potential for a 6% increase to damage reduction (which is essentially like 6% more armor) I don't see how you argue against surging charges ability to add 9% AR reduction to all attacks all the time that strike your enemies with charge mastery.

 

Death Fields internal damage is great. Bypassing armor is a sure winner. However, your giving up 30% damage and its improved crit.

 

Voltaic IMO is fine. If you don't like the setup in deception to the shock proc run 2213/6. You'll get all the awesomeness of maul and tank armor with the ability to nearly equal the shock damage output of deception through energize. Especially if you don't run charge mastery in deception.

 

Crackling blast and energize are roughly the same and electrify is equal to 1 hit of voltaic slash being active all the time.

 

You lose the heavy hitting discharge and give up some chain shock percentage to hit and some maul critical damage, but gain some survivability.

 

I like the 23/18/0 and 27/14/0 (Harnessed Darkness) builds. Their are a few hybrids I like. The problem with deception is really still utility over a marauder. Its fun but honestly the tanking line is still superior, especially now with the ability to run a shield and keep up your melee damage output.

 

I don't mind deceptions outputs and its survivability isn't to bad. If your good you can pretty much never die. Its going to own the death match arena. Stealth based burst. More escapability than operatives. Although self healing of a tanksin is very underrated.

 

Thanks for reading.

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I still vastly prefer 0/27/14 over full Deception.

 

Having Deathfield is a huge boost to your single target burst damage. Geared, DF will crit for 5k. There is no way that the 30% boost to shock is equivalent to 5k. So for single target burst, DF + Discharge + unbuffed shock > buffed shock + discharge. Also, having DF makes the burst far more unpredicable. The voltaic animation is a dead giveaway that there is hell coming. Switching targets can help this somewhat of course, but I know for myself, as soon as I see someone throw out that yoyo, I know exactly what is coming, and what I can do to stop it. Plus, against voice coordinated teams, it gets even worse. I see yoyos, I can tell my buddy whats incoming, and then he can deal with it. Seeing people in Surging charge using the regular thrash can throw people off. Plus, since shock is not receiving any buffs, if you have force to spare, you can shock without having to do any other attacks. More burst coming faster and unpredictably.

 

Also, to whoever incorrectly stated that Discharge is affected by the arpen talent, you're wrong. Like DF, Discharge is an internal damage attack. Also, there are no buffs to crit chance, so I'm not sure where you get that idea. And also relying on reckless FL for ranged is just a bad idea. Recklessnss has a 75 sec cd with the stalker bonus, if its not up, you're screwed. And you should be using Recklessness as much as you can anyway, saving it for cap interrupting is stupid. Also, FL is vulnerable to LoS, which is a serious problem in civil war. The utility of DF is just essential. With your crit at appropriate levels, thrash with the 1 or 2 points into claws of decay will basically nullify the extra damage VS does over thrash. Deception will have more sustained damage than 0/27/14, because once DF goes on cd, then the 30% boost to shock will pull ahead. But the purpose of Deception based builds is never sustained damage anyway.

 

Deception is a good build yes, and I still enjoy playing it, and seeing how big a shock I can get. But for serious competition, I will never be playing it again, unless VS does indeed receive a buff that makes it worth taking. And I do like the VS animation, even though it is a dead giveaway. I would be very happy if it got buffed.

Edited by RankorSSGS
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I still vastly prefer 0/27/14 over full Deception.

 

Having Deathfield is a huge boost to your single target burst damage. Geared, DF will crit for 5k. .

 

So if we belive you, your non critical hits on DF, in pvp, are always in 3k range. Cool story. Btw 0-27-14 are really better than full deception.

Edited by orillah
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Deception after the last patch it really become a boost to its survivability but nothing change in the fact that men should still choose its target...

 

It is a healer killer nothing more....which can be done better with Marauder/PT or a sniper(if the healer is bad).....

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So if we belive you, your non critical hits on DF, in pvp, are always in 3k range. Cool story. Btw 0-27-14 are really better than full deception.

 

Not quite sure what you are trying to say. Sounds like you are agreeing with me? And yes, even a non crit DF will hit for 2k+. Still more than 30% boost to shock.

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Yes, buff it, 1500-2k base damage. I want to see all the QQ's from Rage spec Juggs and Marauders and watch everyone roll an Assassin and warzones be 8v8 Decepticon Sins! That would be fun.

 

The problem is not with VS itself. The problem is that what it contributes to the rest of the tree is not enough to make it worth taking over Death Field.

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The problem is not with VS itself. The problem is that what it contributes to the rest of the tree is not enough to make it worth taking over Death Field.

 

 

Some guy posted that DF over VS buffed shock is worth it. no, bro no. Maybe it might do overall more damage if it hits more than one target in pvp, however 2k dmg across 3 people is nothing. VS for me crits most targets for 900-1000 per hit, netting ~1800-2k dmg per slash, and buffs the followup shock. Please keep in mind that shock is on a shorter CD than DF. If you run a 0/3x/1x build, you will be taking the 3/3 45% chance to add a second shock. Buffed with reck, 2x vs and shock is a larger single target damage on a single target. Deception is NOT an aoe spec, it is used for specific targeting of characters (healers and target switching). If you are looking at node guarding, deep deception is not the spec for you. If you are looking at 1v1 lolyourenotplayingpvpwarzonesright specs, deception might not be for you. If you are making measured, calculating choices on who you are attacking, and are able to choose wisely, deception is an amazing spec for bursting down specific targets.

 

Anyone saying that 1x points in madness is better because of DF over a 3x build in deception is the probably the guy running around in BM/Recruit/onepiece of war hero that the rest of us GOOD players like to make into a prison *****.

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I think personally VS is awesome. Looks good, sounds painful and IS painful lol

 

I've been playing with the 0/27/14 spec and despite missing Force pull from my previous (27/3/14) spec, I have been enjoying it. But.

 

Full deception is the way to go if you want to deal burst damage on a single target but I guess it depends on your role within the team. DF is great to stop node caps and take a chicken runner out when they force speed away with just 5 HP left but playing full deception is just more fluid.

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You people really do not get it do you? Adding Deathfield gives you more burst than a standard Deception spec. Period. Run the numbers yourself, any gear level. I'll try and lay it out. For this example, we'll say that Duplicity procs at a good time, and so did chain shock for both rotations.

 

0/27/14:

 

Recklessness> DF> Discharge> 2x thrash> Shock + Chain shock proc> Maul

 

2/31/8:

 

2x VS> Recklessness> Shock (with VS buff) + Chain shock proc> Discharge> Maul

 

Assuming that both rotations get the same number of crits, the 0/27/14 rotation will ALWAYS do more damage than the 2/31/8 rotation. The only time 2/31/8 will pull ahead is if the crit RNG isn't as nice to 0/27/14. Claws of Decay will usually put thrash's damage close enough to VS' damage.

 

To the guy who conveniently ignored when I said it the first time, I know that shock is a much shorter cd than DF. And I know that after the opening phase, the VS boost to shock will put 2/31/8's sustained damage higher than 0/27/14's. But frankly, if they survive the opening burst phase, then you have failed, because then the enemy healers are going to heal them right back up, and any damage you did is wasted. THE POINT IS TO KILL YOUR ENEMY AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, BEFORE THEY CAN BE HEALED UP!

 

I do not get why people are so against using Deathfield. It gives you a stronger burst phase, and the utility. I could understand skipping over DF's utility IF the boost from VS gave you more damage in return. But it does not. DF gives more utility, and more damage. It's a win- win.

 

So sure, in regular warzones where both teams are uncoordinated, sure, run 2/31/8, and yes, you will do well with it. But I guarantee that you will never be as efficient against a coordinated enemy team as you would be in 0/27/14.

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You people really do not get it do you? Adding Deathfield gives you more burst than a standard Deception spec. Period. Run the numbers yourself, any gear level. I'll try and lay it out. For this example, we'll say that Duplicity procs at a good time, and so did chain shock for both rotations.

 

0/27/14:

 

Recklessness> DF> Discharge> 2x thrash> Shock + Chain shock proc> Maul

 

2/31/8:

 

2x VS> Recklessness> Shock (with VS buff) + Chain shock proc> Discharge> Maul

 

Assuming that both rotations get the same number of crits, the 0/27/14 rotation will ALWAYS do more damage than the 2/31/8 rotation. The only time 2/31/8 will pull ahead is if the crit RNG isn't as nice to 0/27/14. Claws of Decay will usually put thrash's damage close enough to VS' damage.

 

It's a bit normal that it does higher damage if you add an ability in the rotation...

The 31pts-spec uses 5 hitters (2x Voltaic, Shock, Discharge, Maul) while the 27pts-spec uses 6 (the same 3 Force powers plus 2 Thrash plus Death Field).

If you want to compare properly, add a third Voltaic Slash at the end of the 31pts-spec's rotation (or Low Slash if in need to stop a guy and find a position for Maul or to interrupt him), so that both takes the same time to use (and note that if it's Voltaic slash, it means that while the 27pts-spec ends its burst, the 31pts-spec is already starting to build its next one).

 

I also hope for you that your Death Field hits only one person, or it will be hard to crit your Discharge/Shock.

Edited by Altheran
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It's a bit normal that it does higher damage if you add an ability in the rotation...

The 31pts-spec uses 5 hitters (2x Voltaic, Shock, Discharge, Maul) while the 27pts-spec uses 6 (the same 3 Force powers plus 2 Thrash plus Death Field).

If you want to compare properly, add a third Voltaic Slash at the end of the 31pts-spec's rotation (or Low Slash if in need to stop a guy and find a position for Maul or to interrupt him), so that both takes the same time to use (and note that if it's Voltaic slash, it means that while the 27pts-spec ends its burst, the 31pts-spec is already starting to build its next one).

 

I also hope for you that your Death Field hits only one person, or it will be hard to crit your Discharge/Shock.

 

I actually added the 2x thrashes in for the purpose of putting in the same number of hits as 31pts, but miscounted haha. Thanks for pointing that out. The 2x thrashes are only to lower the cost of shock, if you have lots of force (AKA just entering combat, and have Dark Embrace up) then you do not even need them. The rotation turns into Recklessness> DF> Discharge> Shock> Maul. You find me a 31pts build that does that much damage in 4 moves. That's why I prefer 27pts over 31pts. I do not need to use 2 thrashes/ VS to get my highest damage. No setup required.

 

I also am not having a real issue with hitting multiple people with DF accidentally. It comes naturally to me to aim it off to the side so that only my intended target gets hit. Does not always happen of course, but mistakes/ unavoidable multi-hits are infrequent enough that I can live with it. If I've got Recklessness up, I'm typically going healer hunting, and a smart healer does not stand in the middle of it all. And for those 75 seconds in between Recklessness, the AoE is always a positive.

 

I do still very much enjoy playing Deception, I'm just trying to point out to the OP why I prefer to not take VS, which was the original question he asked.

 

Side note: Does Overcharge Saber increase the damage done by Discharge? I've never thought so, but people keep seeming to throw it in before popping Discharge.

Edited by RankorSSGS
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Rancor, I retract my previous statement. The build you posted is actually quite nice. I finally broke down and bought a pvp dummy for my ship and did some testing. As it turns out, overcharge saber does not affect discharge. What it does do, however is turn my 500 charge crits into 1k charge crits, which was parsing very nicley lol.

 

 

I actually added the 2x thrashes in for the purpose of putting in the same number of hits as 31pts, but miscounted haha. Thanks for pointing that out. The 2x thrashes are only to lower the cost of shock, if you have lots of force (AKA just entering combat, and have Dark Embrace up) then you do not even need them. The rotation turns into Recklessness> DF> Discharge> Shock> Maul. You find me a 31pts build that does that much damage in 4 moves. That's why I prefer 27pts over 31pts. I do not need to use 2 thrashes/ VS to get my highest damage. No setup required.

 

I also am not having a real issue with hitting multiple people with DF accidentally. It comes naturally to me to aim it off to the side so that only my intended target gets hit. Does not always happen of course, but mistakes/ unavoidable multi-hits are infrequent enough that I can live with it. If I've got Recklessness up, I'm typically going healer hunting, and a smart healer does not stand in the middle of it all. And for those 75 seconds in between Recklessness, the AoE is always a positive.

 

I do still very much enjoy playing Deception, I'm just trying to point out to the OP why I prefer to not take VS, which was the original question he asked.

 

Side note: Does Overcharge Saber increase the damage done by Discharge? I've never thought so, but people keep seeming to throw it in before popping Discharge.

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@Rancor

 

I have tried so many damn times to get people to try new specs, they just wont. When I was destroying people with Mad Maul no one would listen to me and everyone just stayed the boring 31-1-9. Wakajinn spec is absolutely the best spec for opening burst and survivability but no matter what no one will listen. They will just keep doing what they always do. They will read the posts but they wont try it, then just flame the post based off of bias and miscalculated theory crafting.

 

On a side note, in the Wakalord guide there are many examples of why the Wakajinn spec out performs the other specs. I did notice one more thing that was not discussed in the entire thread. One of the greatest attributes of Wakajinn spec is its burst, 20k damage in 12 seconds with out Recklessness buff. That is sexy. Where that burst really shines is during Focus Fire. In WZ's specially rated WZ's well timed Focus Fire will make our break your team. With the set up required from Deception, Madness and Mad Maul it is really hard to get a well timed Focus Fire. Sure if you have 2x VS already or Raze proc you can turn to another target and nuke, but if you don't have it up yet then you have to build it. With Wakajinn you do not have to worry about set up, so you can unload anytime you want. Wakajinn really shines when a healer is getting his face Smashed in by a Jugg and is sitting at 50%, when a Wakajinn Sin gets added to that healer it is pretty much game over.

Edited by Xethis
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The rotation turns into Recklessness> DF> Discharge> Shock> Maul. You find me a 31pts build that does that much damage in 4 moves. That's why I prefer 27pts over 31pts. I do not need to use 2 thrashes/ VS to get my highest damage. No setup required.

But without setup, you won't have Duplicity. Won't you have problems to compete with 31pts, with a Maul at 50 Force and without the 30% bonus ?

The rotation would cost in total 37+ 45 +20 +50 = 152 Force, maybe it's a bit short with Force regenration before using the fourth ability... you would have spent 102 Force, while having regenerated 12 Force 4times within 4.5s meaning 48 Force, so 102 of effective 148, it will normally remain 46 Force too short for Maul unless delaying it a bit to wait the fifth second or unless you have the +10 Force in your build.

 

Side note: Does Overcharge Saber increase the damage done by Discharge? I've never thought so, but people keep seeming to throw it in before popping Discharge.

 

No, it doesn't (unless I'm mistaking). I actually don't understand why people give so much credit to this skill. It's a no-cost damage increase, which is nice but it's marginal IMO.

Edited by Altheran
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@Rancor

 

I would advise changing your opening rotation to Discharge -> Shock -> DF whenever your target is not isolated. Yeah it sucks to have chain Shock eating a charge of recklessness 45% if the time, but it sucks less than not having 1 charge left for Shock who has a better crit multiplier than DF. Also 55% of the time you will have 1 charge left for DF that will crit on 2-3 people while only consuming your last charge.

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@ Altheran

 

It actually is quite possible for duplicity to proc without the setup of 31pt builds. If you look at the tooltip, its says that "direct damage" attacks can cause the effect. Coincidentally, direct damage attacks are also what consumes Recklessness charges. This means that Shock, Discharge, and DF all can proc Duplicity, and quite often will. Even if it doesn't, I find it to not be a serious issue. When I run 31pt builds, I usually open with a maul, even without a Duplicity proc, because with Dark Embrace up, I have force to spare, and VS is too inexpensive to make full use of it. Opening right away with 2x VS will leave you with full force while DE is up, which is wasted damage potential. If you get stunned during DE it gets even worse. Personal preference I suppose. With 27pt builds, I'm using DE to fund Shock without building 2 induction stacks.

 

@iesnbold

 

I typically will change it up as the situation changes. But you make an excellent point for those who may be trying the build out for the first time, thanks. That's the other great thing about 27pt builds, there is no set rotation. No needing to use VS twice before Shock, no using X before Y or Z. You can really use Shock, Discharge, and DF in any order you want. I try to use Shock last whenever I can, just to avoid chain shock eating a Recklessness charge, but yes, in tight groups of enemies, then DF will go last. Once Recklessness goes on cooldown, you really are free to use whatever ability whenever you deem best in the current situation. The only thing to watch is induction stacks, but typically once you finish your opener and DF goes on cooldown, you will be using Thrash often enough that you won't even really have to think about it.

 

@ Xethis

 

Haha, ikr? And yes, your 2nd paragraph nails it exactly.

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