As for your second point, yes they do have to be constantly plugged in. If stunned or disrupted the traps will revert back to normal. So it may be the case that a member of the Rebel team will have to provide cover for R2 - or perhaps the SpecForces... but how long will they last?

Well then the whole traps argument doesn't even matter. One shot from a Commando droid or a single grenade/shock from Durge/Dooku or Ventress will put R2 out of commission. Do you know how long it would take R2 to wheel himself back to the center? Plenty time for the Seps to score without having to worry about constant fire. If Dooku and Durge control Mid while Ventress and Grievous score, it'll be perfect.

And in preparation for the argument that the Seps could never hold the middle, killing Durge is much harder than zapping him with lightning or slicing him with a lightsaber. He's a Jedi Hunter, people. He knows what he's doing. He has shields that deflect lightsabers. And if Dooku does like any good Sith Sorc and casts from the catwalks, he can easily catch the Rebels off guard with lightning while they're attack Durge. If not, he'll easily kill the Rebel troops with one blast. The Commandos will hold off the Rebels and R2, then attack whoever dares try to attack Durge. As I've shown, they're plenty skilled at fighting Jedi, even defeating one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6LeL3s4Q80

This video shows some of Durge's skills. (1:00) A lightsaber didn't even phase him when stabbed. He has plenty of exotic weapons none of the Rebels have ever seen (including those shields). This fight isn't actually cannon, seeing as the series isn't, (so no, Obi-wan did not actually defeat Durge like this) but it shows Durge's abilities that we know of.

And, if you skip to about the 4 minute mark you'll see Durge's true form. Where he completely owns everyone. Until he swallows Obi-wan, but somehow I don't think he'll be doing that again. And if he does, only once before he decides to just crush the Rebels instead.

Well then the whole traps argument doesn't even matter. One shot from a Commando droid or a single grenade/shock from Durge/Dooku or Ventress will put R2 out of commission. Do you know how long it would take R2 to wheel himself back to the center? Plenty time for the Seps to score without having to worry about constant fire. If Dooku and Durge control Mid while Ventress and Grievous score, it'll be perfect.

 

And in preparation for the argument that the Seps could never hold the middle, killing Durge is much harder than zapping him with lightning or slicing him with a lightsaber. He's a Jedi Hunter, people. He knows what he's doing. He has shields that deflect lightsabers. And if Dooku does like any good Sith Sorc and casts from the catwalks, he can easily catch the Rebels off guard with lightning while they're attack Durge. If not, he'll easily kill the Rebel troops with one blast. The Commandos will hold off the Rebels and R2, then attack whoever dares try to attack Durge. As I've shown, they're plenty skilled at fighting Jedi, even defeating one.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6LeL3s4Q80

 

This video shows some of Durge's skills. (1:00) A lightsaber didn't even phase him when stabbed. He has plenty of exotic weapons none of the Rebels have ever seen (including those shields). This fight isn't actually cannon, seeing as the series isn't, (so no, Obi-wan did not actually defeat Durge like this) but it shows Durge's abilities that we know of.

 

And, if you skip to about the 4 minute mark you'll see Durge's true form. Where he completely owns everyone. Until he swallows Obi-wan, but somehow I don't think he'll be doing that again. And if he does, only once before he decides to just crush the Rebels instead.

accoring to the wookipedia page it is cannon and the series is still cannon everything is cannon until a higher version of cannon contradicts it and nothing is contradictory that prevents that from being cannon. Also something works pretty well against that form the electrical shock did pretty well galen doesnt have the limitations that the tech does also prolonged exposure to a fire trap can incinerate his entire body thus killing him. So yes that defeat by Obi-wan is cannon as far as i can tell. Unless you can give me proof like beni did for ventress that shows it be 100% non-cannon or contradictory.

accoring to the wookipedia page it is cannon and the series is still cannon everything is cannon until a higher version of cannon contradicts it and nothing is contradictory that prevents that from being cannon. Also something works pretty well against that form the electrical shock did pretty well galen doesnt have the limitations that the tech does also prolonged exposure to a fire trap can incinerate his entire body thus killing him. So yes that defeat by Obi-wan is cannon as far as i can tell. Unless you can give me proof like beni did for ventress that shows it be 100% non-cannon or contradictory.

When did Warren mention canon?

I said that Durge's defeat by Obi-wan shown in the clip never actually happened, because the duel is not cannon. Thus the entire encounter is non-cannon. I think. Still a little fuzzy on this cannon stuff. Just trying to prevent another "A>B>C" scenario.

If that series is cannon, I WILL bring up Grievous lolz pwning 5 Jedi masters at once. I will, I swear. And no one wants that.

It's not really important to the debate.

The point still remains: Durge has some nasty tricks up his sleeves.

I said that Durge's defeat by Obi-wan shown in the clip never actually happened, because the duel is not cannon. Thus the entire encounter is non-cannon. I think. Still a little fuzzy on this cannon stuff. Just trying to prevent another "A>B>C" scenario.

 

If that series is cannon, I WILL bring up Grievous lolz pwning 5 Jedi masters at once. I will, I swear. And no one wants that.

 

It's not really important to the debate.

 

The point still remains: Durge has some nasty tricks up his sleeves.

Actually greivous beating those masters is also cannon as far as i know again according to the wookie and nothing really contradicts it that i know of hell i have taken that into consideration when analyzing grevious's abilities and the likely hood of people like Luke or galen or rohm fighting him. As well as his defeat at the hands of Obi-wan. and his kidnapping of palpatine and what his body is made out of so on and so forth i would prefer not to have to argue my points but again if I must, I must.

Also A>B>C logic doesnt partain to obi-wan None of the characters mirror him any analyzation needs to take that into consideration Only where anakin is involved can A>B>C logic be used do to Luke being a Mirror of him and Galen being trained by the guy (but even trying to use it for galen would still be a bad idea because though he was trained he uses a different style).

And to the point yes almost all of which are countered by telekentics which Rohm and Galen are really good at and Luke is pretty decent at as well all of them i am sure would be able to use said telekentics to defend against and energy shield arent exactly rare the rebels probably have seen them before they have been around for years hell lesser versions are even around here in the old republic they are probably pretty common knowledge as are most of the things he seems to use not much different then your standard bounty hunters load out.

And to the point yes almost all of which are countered by telekentics which Rohm and Galen are really good at and Luke is pretty decent at as well all of them i am sure would be able to use said telekentics to defend against and energy shield arent exactly rare the rebels probably have seen them before they have been around for years hell lesser versions are even around here in the old republic they are probably pretty common knowledge as are most of the things he seems to use not much different then your standard bounty hunters load out.

Grievous actually dodges a Force Wave/Push in that scene. So telekinetics won't do much.

And just because such energy shields exist does not mean they're common. Rebels don't usually have to face lightsaber users. And if they've never been shown to possess them, they don't. Simple fact.

Grievous actually dodges a Force Wave/Push in that scene. So telekinetics won't do much.

 

And just because such energy shields exist does not mean they're common. Rebels don't usually have to face lightsaber users. And if they've never been shown to possess them, they don't. Simple fact.

thats a wave of energy and he was forced to dodge and it doesnt partain to force crush wich both Luke and galen are capable of (i consider it a form of telekentics but its also a form of force choke) something he was shown to have no defense against when Windu did it to him.

And i never said they used them I said they knew about them the gungans used a form of energy shield and they had plenty of deployable energy shields i believed that they used to defend against blasters. They didnt use the smaller ones but that doesnt mean they didnt know about them is what you are saying I see no reason they wouldnt.

Grievous actually dodges a Force Wave/Push in that scene. So telekinetics won't do much.

 

And just because such energy shields exist does not mean they're common. Rebels don't usually have to face lightsaber users. And if they've never been shown to possess them, they don't. Simple fact.

What you dont bring anything new to the table except Durge?

Sorry even Durge can be defeated by ANY jedi Masters in rebels team in Huttball if durge carries the ball is instantly a target, also Alliance best are something similiar to republic commandos if not better they can take on any of the separatist with the support of Luke, Galen and whole team.

What you dont bring anything new to the table except Durge?

 

Sorry even Durge can be defeated by ANY jedi Masters in rebels team in Huttball if durge carries the ball is instantly a target, also Alliance best are something similiar to republic commandos if not better they can take on any of the separatist with the support of Luke, Galen and whole team.

I don't know how to respond to that first sentence(?).

Durge in his armor? Sure. But without it he's kinda invincible. He gets his arm cut off and regenerates it in seconds. He's also huge and can easily overpower any of the Jedi. And all those clones he was crushing in that clip? Substitute those for the Rebel commandos.

If anything, the Rebel commandos are ill prepared to face lightsaber duelists. They've never encountered a lightsaber, and have no idea how to counter it. On the flip side, the Seps commando droids were created in a time when Jedi were the enemy. They have great aim and can take down Jedi, even in physical combat. Note also that Luke isn't exactly an all star at deflecting blaster bolts, like when his hand is shot by some random grunt on a sail barge in a much less deadly/hectic battle than this one. The Seps have the better suited troops.

I don't know how to respond to that first sentence(?).

 

Durge in his armor? Sure. But without it he's kinda invincible. He gets his arm cut off and regenerates it in seconds. He's also huge and can easily overpower any of the Jedi. And all those clones he was crushing in that clip? Substitute those for the Rebel commandos.

 

If anything, the Rebel commandos are ill prepared to face lightsaber duelists. They've never encountered a lightsaber, and have no idea how to counter it. On the flip side, the Seps commando droids were created in a time when Jedi were the enemy. They have great aim and can take down Jedi, even in physical combat. Note also that Luke isn't exactly an all star at deflecting blaster bolts, like when his hand is shot by some random grunt on a sail barge in a much less deadly/hectic battle than this one. The Seps have the better suited troops.

Durge isn't invencible as you describe him and he has been taken down by people who aren't jedi, specifically Mandalorians how did they do this?

Mandalorians managed to subdue Durge by using blaster burns, electric discharges and damaging his body, Alliance troops even if you don't like to see it are well fit in taking down Imperial best clones or not, they ar enot regular troopers they can with aid of a Jedi able to make durge eneter comatose state for the rest of the huttball match.

Separatist droids on the otherside are quite useless, they sure can put out a good fight against regular troops maybe getting few of the Alliance troops but they are extremely weak for force powers even more than humans because anything can inable them like a simple Ion blaster (Note this were invented during the Alliance) even R2-D2 can help in taking those down.

So basically, we have this:

On Separatists:

Ventress (1:30)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7JsP3tn9s0

Grievous (3:50)

Durge (4:00)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6LeL3s4Q80

Dooku (1:40)

Commando Droids (0:40)

Vs.

Luke (5:00)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvUtXFg65Cs

Rahm (2:20)

Starkiller (4:10)

R2-D2 (0:25)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg2C9K4b0hQ

Rebel Commandos (1:45)

Obviously this extremely one-sided and not a fair representation, but it's called persuasive argumentation people.

And I realize you won't watch all the clips and whatnot, but hey, if you're wondering why I'm voting Seps for this round, there it is.

How about:

Asaj Ventres (Huttball):

http://youtu.be/gNP35AmAqgw

Grievous vs Jedi (Obiwan lvl):

Durge:

http://youtu.be/D6LeL3s4Q80

Dooku:

Commando Droids (4:13)

Now...

Luke:

Galen:

Rahm Kota:

Same Video as posted by Warren-side, you can see Rahm Kota destroying a whole station

R2D2:

Rebel Commandos:

Video is just for fun, Clones are superior to droids (Cannon) and Rebels>Empire

Video is just for fun, Clones are superior to droids (Cannon) and Rebels>Empire

Most of your Sep videos are actually examples of them being awesome and beating people up.

But addressing the troops, you are wrong. Obvious due to your video choice for Droid Commandos, you simply do not know what they are. They are NOT the B1s you seem to imagine they are. I encourage you to watch my video for Commando droids and realize what, exactly, is actually being debated here.

Also, I have yet to hear of any actual accomplishments these Rebel Commandos have done. Saying Droids<Clones<Rebels is NOT a valid argument, seeing as it's simply not true (or cannon) and makes no sense if you have nothing to justify it. I need a REASON why these Rebel Commandos are so great. Not just that they are. I myself will admit to not even knowing what they truly are, simply because we have no examples of their actions. That is why I assumed you were referring to the Rebels that were protecting the Rebel Princess, which got slaughtered very easily by the Empire you say the Rebels automatically trump.

Ok, now I have some questions and remarks about the jumping:

1) So our players cannot even jump up that final wall if there is another player standing there? (think Juggernaut/Guardian which represents many of the players in this match to some extent) If i remember correctly you also disabled knockbacks and pulls, so it would make sense from certain viewpoints, but it's important to know.

2) You said, Grievous can climb (almost) everywhere he wants. So he can also climb up that wall?

3) One cannot fly with the ball, but can R2 fly around in the pit as he likes, as long as he doesn't carry the ball?

I will post again sometimes later today about other things (at least I plan to) but right now it's lunch time at my place.

I will cover the rebels in the morning didnt know i would right this much..... a lot on durge I have a feeling a lot of this will be skimed over but i dont blaim you guys for it. lol

Ok as promised I will talk about the ball handlers for the rebel team and the possibilities they have to score. Beggining with every one's favorite.

R2: This Little guy while potentially being the rebels king in defense lets face it if he grabs the ball their better be no one even near him. Poor guy only has a few defenses such as a smoke screen which will help defend him against 6 members of the enemy team for a short time but against the 2 force users they will just be able to know where he is and a droid, durge or greivous could get a lucky shot in the smoke screen and kill the poor little droid. If he has the ball this is just exhasterbated to retarded degree as much of the smoke screen would get covered in blaster fire and grenades. its best if the rebels only have the little R2 grab the ball when he is in the center and no one else is and immidiately passing it to another rebel team member one more appropriate to carry the ball. R2 just isnt scoring Like dooku I see no scoring potential for the little guy.

Rohm: Rohm very much like Dooku is not going to out pace the feild which means if he does have the ball he will have to hold up against the might of the seps. This is obviously something he will just not be able to do, at least not for very long. If he has the ball the only way he is getting through is if there is next to no one around and he uses his telekentics to make a large enough hole in the defense of those that are around to make it to the end zone, but this is highly unlikely as Dooku keeps pace with him and ventress greivous and probably even durge can outpace this older gentlemen. The best thing for him to do with the ball is to drop into the pit and use LoS and his telekentics to hold off his opponents until a team member gets in a better position to help him. (I am probably going to go back to the sep's and see if i cant analyize there abilities to do this as it was not something i entirely considered at the time of the previous post will think on it and get back to it). But beyond this he just is not holding the ball for now as many of his opponents can fight him pretty evenly so that attention is not something he is surviving for long with out giving the ball to some one else. Should be noted Juyo ,as far as i know, doesnt have the same blaster deflection issues makashi has along with his ability to keep melee opponents at bay and no Hard counters to Rohm I do see him lasting longer holding the ball then Dooku, ventress or Greivous but not that much longer instead of 10 second we are talking 15 or 20 seconds with out support and the whole team baring down obviously none of these guys last a second no one holds the ball for longer then a second (not even durge) if they are facing the entire opposing team solo, but in a group I would think that Rohm would be able to use his knowledge of trench warfare and the terrain of the pit and skill with coralling opponenets with telekenetics to hold of te enemy team at bay with support he would be able to hold the seps off for a short time but like many others his downfall is inevitable.

Galen Marek: The only ones on the sep team able to keep pace with Galen are ventress and greivous. If greivous catches galen he dies before sabers are pull from a quick force crush and force lightning something he has no defense against. While ventress catching him allows her to slow him down having the team catch up with galen. He can still defeat her if his team mates can hold off the rest of the team long enough to do so. If R2 is in the middle no one is catching Galen as the fire will disapear for him giving him a clear shot and cutting off the seps giving him a clear shot to the goal. He doesnt need more then a few seconds of R2 in the center and know how often R2 has come in and used a consol to help his team escape going almost completely unnoticed and his smoke screen being able to keep him safe from everyone but dooku (assuming Dooku is in the middle or alive). If galen were to run into the respawned members of the sep team alone he wont last long If dooku he will be able to hold him off long enough to get to the end zone but if the cammando droids or ventress are their with dooku galen i would say has a 50/50 chance of defending himself long enough to get over the end zone. If the respawn is Ventress and the drioids i would say about the same chance as dooku and droids and if it is all 3 of them i believe that is a sure fire way to stop galen if he has no support. If the respawn is just greivous or ventress on the other hand galen should be able to largly avoid them and get around them to get to the end zone before fighting the 2 of them which again i believe he can beat any way. The seps dont have much of a way to stop galen from just getting away. If R2 isnt in the middle then i believe Durge maybe able to catch Galen but between force lightning and lightsaber galen can incapacitate him but if he does both teams will catch up just meaning the rebels can now support galen helping him escape again. I dont see many ways for the seps to stop galen as the only way is if the slower members catch him but if they do that means the rebels are their to back him up, with the rebels their he can hold off or escape again. He is ALMOST assured a point.

Luke: like galen Luke out paces most of the sep field only greivous and ventress catching him. Of ventress catches Luke its arguable that she dies with out slowing him down. If greivous catches up with Luke its possible Luke will have him dead by the time the teams catch up with him but it is clear that the teams will catch up with him. If there is no R2 in the middle Luke should be slowed down by traps enough for Durge to catch up. This would slow down Luke again allowing much of the entire sep team to meet him, but again like Galen if the sep team catches so will the rebel team, Which with the whole team backing Luke up he has an even chance of holding off opponenets or breaking away again while his team handles teh seps. If he were to deal with respawns of dooku alone or Dooku+droids he would be able to hold their attacks off long enough to make it to the end zone and pottentially kill the group again. If its ventress+ droids it is the same situation. If Dooku+ventress he will deffinantely be able to hold them off and get to the endzone. If Dooku+ventress+droids Luke will likely start to be overwhelmed by number and i give him a 50/50 shot of making it to the end zone before dieing. If greivous+droids I would give Luke the same chance as dooku ventress and droids as greivous is the most likely to give Luke the hardest time and when dealing with a skilled duelist and blaster fire it will be difficult if not impossible for Luke to dominate the duel the way he does with ventress and Dooku. And of course if he is facing the entire team respawn (minus durge as i have said before i dont see him dieing just being incapacitated) he goes down just as quick as any who faces whole teams. Of course this is assuming he is alone. If Galen travels with him Greivous and ventress will not slow them down at all and even with the entire sep team respawn (minus durge see above) I would still give Luke a 50/50 shot at making it to the end zone before being killed. If R2 is in the middle Luke can out pace the entire sep team by having flames cut off his opponents and move out of his way litterally nothing stopping him from scoring. So like galen i see little to stop Luke from actually scoring with R2 in the middle its almost assured that he will.

So this is partially why I believe the Rebels win while the seps have plenty of possible ways to score none of them are as assured or likely as the rebels have of scoring. Early i was saying that i would analyze the seps team ability to hold the ball long enough to get one of their members to the end zone like I said rohm could possibly do, but with hard counters to 3 of the members (dooku countered by Luke or Galen+trooper fire, Ventress countered by Luke or Galen+troops, and Greivous countered by Galen and maybe Luke, unsure if Luke's force crush skills are enough to stop greivous long enough to cut him down if so then Luke has even easier time scoring.) and the 1 member that could potentially do so is often times over confident and is not known to be one to hide or use the terain to help himself stay alive mostly just reallying on his equipment and physiology to keep him up so with no help from his team any member of the rebel team or some combination of the rebel team can stun him enough to force a ball drop before the seps can get any where good for a ball pass. The main weakness it seems for the seps is most of their team have hard counters (sure fire ways to take them down quickly) and the one that doesnt has shown himself to be arogant enough that it has allowed his prey to escape him on more then 1 occassion with many ways to easily incapacitate him even if he just wont die so unlike Rohm any of the seps who attempt to hold the ball and let team mates get to a better spot are just not likely to succeed.

Yikes if people didnt fully read my post on seps..... not likely to read this lol oh well.

Ok, now I have some questions and remarks about the jumping:

 

1) So our players cannot even jump up that final wall if there is another player standing there? (think Juggernaut/Guardian which represents many of the players in this match to some extent) If i remember correctly you also disabled knockbacks and pulls, so it would make sense from certain viewpoints, but it's important to know.

 

2) You said, Grievous can climb (almost) everywhere he wants. So he can also climb up that wall?

 

3) One cannot fly with the ball, but can R2 fly around in the pit as he likes, as long as he doesn't carry the ball?

 

I will post again sometimes later today about other things (at least I plan to) but right now it's lunch time at my place.

1. Yes I suppose, but that player can also push them back. Nonetheless that's a variable we can't really determine. And knockbacks and pulls are not disabled. Only uber abilities are not allowed.
    
    
   
2. I'm afraid he can't - the logic behind these rules being that if put in place half the Huttball field would be rendered obsolete.
    
    
   
3. Yes. Though he cannot fly over fires and only up to and across platforms, he cannot bypass the entire arena.
   

Also, I have yet to hear of any actual accomplishments these Rebel Commandos have done. Saying Droids<Clones<Rebels is NOT a valid argument, seeing as it's simply not true (or cannon) and makes no sense if you have nothing to justify it. I need a REASON why these Rebel Commandos are so great. Not just that they are. I myself will admit to not even knowing what they truly are, simply because we have no examples of their actions. That is why I assumed you were referring to the Rebels that were protecting the Rebel Princess, which got slaughtered very easily by the Empire you say the Rebels automatically trump.

They are basically more skilled and possess a greater array of weaponary.

The way I see it the SpecForces have the advantage in weaponry and intelligence (arguably) while the Commando droids have the advantage of agility and durability.

So basically, we have this:

 

On Separatists:

 

Ventress (1:30)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7JsP3tn9s0

 

Grievous (3:50)

 

Durge (4:00)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6LeL3s4Q80

 

Dooku (1:40)

 

Commando Droids (0:40)

 

Vs.

 

Luke (5:00)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvUtXFg65Cs

 

Rahm (2:20)

 

Starkiller (4:10)

 

R2-D2 (0:25)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg2C9K4b0hQ

 

Rebel Commandos (1:45)

 

 

Obviously this extremely one-sided and not a fair representation, but it's called persuasive argumentation people.

And I realize you won't watch all the clips and whatnot, but hey, if you're wondering why I'm voting Seps for this round, there it is.

ventress: fighting earlier Anakin and obiwan who are clearly injured from crash landing, not that impressive.

Greivous: fighting multiple jedi 2 of which were Masters and were ataru form users when thinking of his abilities and style he is a very hard counter to an Ataru user still very impressive and was enjoyable as hell

Durge: Wow incapacitated or stunned 3-4 times many of his attacks being completely useless against the jedi he fought not really a great argument as something awesome

Dooku: ..... wait so how he died with (if you read the book) the fight didnt really start till 1:30 or 2:00 as until then Ani and obi were giving him misinformation that they were just shii-cho users as if the clone wars got them used to fighting droids and not actual people. Not very impressive at all.

Commando droids: again we have shown them to be quite capable but they still have many weakness's but i will say this puts them on par with the rebels own special forces team, I still give the special forces team the edge but thats personal oppinion really.

Luke: Again a poor showing of Luke failing here as these arent just rank and file troops Jabba was known to hire some of the most infamous bounty hunters and mercanaries it was one of the things that made him so powerful in the underworld no one dared mess with him because the heavy armaments and skills of the people that he surrounded himself with. Their was about 40 people or so on that barge and Luke soloed all of them fighting both melee and ranged opponents simultaneously even being wrapped up by bobba was not the end for Luke, with him showing to have enough skill in blaster deflection to while bound deflect a shot to cut the rope bobba got him with.

Rohm: again poor showing only the cut scenes are cannon game play isnt and in cut scene he telekentically drops that tower shows a really good skill with telekenetics

Star killer: wow a none cannon fight thats your argument.... find something cannon also i you want to use that fight you have to realize who he is fighting their thats sidious already known undisputed most powerful and greatest sith to ever exist so ya pretty poor vid to use for while Starkiller isnt great

R2: because any of us ever argued that he wouldnt die pretty quick if the enemy team took notice of him (their arrogance being the reason for it being unlikely that they do) and i dont know about you but most of that showed the little guy being able to get out of plenty of situations that and being the hero we all know him to be. Hell all you did was making LOVE THAT LITTLE droid even more.

Rebel commando's: um i see no special forces their those are the rank and file not the special forces

Note we are concerning ourselves with Alliance Special Forces. Not the rank and file we seen aboard the Tantive IV.

 

They are basically more skilled and possess a greater array of weaponary.

 

The way I see it the SpecForces have the advantage in weaponry and intelligence (arguably) while the Commando droids have the advantage of agility and durability.

Ya this is basically what I have been saying and thinking as well except maybe not durability as they have one weak point that everyone is likely to aim for any way, their head is just as vunerable as the B1's

Concerning Grievous: His abilities in the mini-series are clearly grossly exaggerated in comparison with his later abilities. So for the purpose of debate only Grievous' abilities displayed in TCW and the RoTS should be considered canon.

I will actually argue against this not all of those people he fought were masters and i would say many of them were countered by Greivous do to style type diffrences giving him the advantage as many of the people their were ataru users. Also that particular event happened after a great battle with the droids of which we know there was a lot still left. Some of those jedi were consumed by fear and others had become reckless but they were all shown to be extremely tired this is something that greivous could easily play against. with 3 masters 2 jedi knights and an unfortunate padawan that gets overwhelmed with out a fight. Couple of the jedi knights are unknown as to what style they used but they were very clearly already tired and may have been unable to use the best of their abilities. 2 of the masters were ataru users and again we know after prolonged fights ataru users can become over whelm easily do to exhaustion something that has clearly happened after the harsh battle from before never the less one of the masters who is ataru is the last one standing and holding greivous off a great testament to that masters skills. The last master is listed as having some skill with form V but its unclear as to whether that is shien or djem so and is most likely shien the only problem is they are noted for have just SOME skill and if shien its generally not known for doing well against a single agile melee opponent unlike the Djem So Luke uses or the Juyo forms used by Galen and Rhom. Also most of the opponents Greivous is known for taking out are Ataru users most likely do to his training from Dooku while he uses a mix of every form one of the masters that faces him notes that his style is actually most like makashi probably subconciously that Greivous is unaware of do to his training with Dooku. With the percision of makashi and multiple blades it would be a fairly good counter as it can shut down an ataru users mobility and the percise stikes means even if the user dodges one blade another could pottentially catch it mid air. For this reason I do not find the feat of beating those 5 jedi to be outside of the abilities Greivous has shown.

I would disagree, he managed to

Whereas

I would disagree, he managed to

without even engaging her in lightsaber combat, claiming she is 'tired'. Tired is one thing, but down right incompetent is something Ti is not.

 

Whereas

would suggest that Grievous is nowhere near as effective against mutliple opponents as the mini series makes him out to be. A group of Gungans scored more hits against Grievous than five Jedi managed to do, three of whom were exceptional lightsaber duelists. There is a clear discrepancy here.[/color]

he did seem to engage in combat there that was after she defeated a host of magna droids and had been hit multiple times her nervous system is still being affected you can see him easily shunt her saber aside seems to me like her powerful ataru strikes are gone from all the pain and how tired she is even in a deleted scene in episode 3 Greivous has a captured Shaak Ti whom of course he kills right in front of anakin and obi-wan. And of course according to the wookie these things are cannon not to mention as I have shown they dont neccisarily show him doing anything more or less impressive then what you linked in the new series. He (as dooku suggested he must) had defeated her before he engaged her by breaking her body ,and possibly her spirit, with his units before engaging her. Against the Gungans he did the same thing the jedi end up doing against the magna droids he underestimates them he isnt force sensitive so he would likely underestimate them and they seem to potentially be quite skilled in melee combat this to me seems like underestimating a group of non force sensitives thats just my opinion of course.

P.S against the gungans he isnt just fighting melee opponents but ranged as well this seems to establish that he is only truely capable of facing one type of opponent at a time as he is not force sensitive he can not defend against ranged attacks the same way that jedi do he does so by spinning his sabers at high speeds something he cant do and hope to survive skilled melee opponenents.

P.S.S I actually dont wish you to give up warren you have brought up some very good points and put me on the track of what to argue I never wanted you to feel defeated and I believe the seps are very skilled and powerful warriors I just have been saying I believe the rebels are better.

Most of your Sep videos are actually examples of them being awesome and beating people up.

 

But addressing the troops, you are wrong. Obvious due to your video choice for Droid Commandos, you simply do not know what they are. They are NOT the B1s you seem to imagine they are. I encourage you to watch my video for Commando droids and realize what, exactly, is actually being debated here.

 

Also, I have yet to hear of any actual accomplishments these Rebel Commandos have done. Saying Droids<Clones<Rebels is NOT a valid argument, seeing as it's simply not true (or cannon) and makes no sense if you have nothing to justify it. I need a REASON why these Rebel Commandos are so great. Not just that they are. I myself will admit to not even knowing what they truly are, simply because we have no examples of their actions. That is why I assumed you were referring to the Rebels that were protecting the Rebel Princess, which got slaughtered very easily by the Empire you say the Rebels automatically trump.

Check out beni's link, Alliance Special Forces are the best of the best. Capable of on taking out droids considered their training, skill and weapons, why they are better than droids (Top-notch droids)?

Clones had training and also intuitive battle tactics which were superior to droid programming, thats a big gap.

Then the Alliance Special Forces are those that oppose even Shadow Troopers well you can see how good the Alliance Spec Forces are against even camoflaged enemies