Okay, I see that the concept of giving players a way to "craft" without actually crafting is perceived as a Good Thing. The whole idea of ordering your inactive Companion characters to fabricate phat lewt while you and your active CC are out saving the galaxy -- I get it.

But really -- does the Mission Skill system REALLY have to be this lame?

GATE #1: Actually getting the missions you need in your interface? Fat chance!

C'mon, BioWare... this was SUPPOSED to be fixed in your last patch! Nothing quite like wanting to create a great armor piece, only to find that you have NO mission skills in your interface for the required rare item. For example, FIVE Companion Gift missions? Seriously, BioWare? I mean, SERIOUSLY?? Or maybe three Mission Box missions and two Companion Gift missions?

GATE #2: Actually GETTING the item you need IF you actually have the right kind of mission? Fat chance!

Okay, I get it: rare mats need to be rare. But this is the WRONG way to keep them rare. This system is NOTHING but a numbers game, in which you input credits at one end, and receive a steady supply of middling mats you already have too much of out the other end, in hopes of getting that one stack of mats you want. And you do it, over and over and over.

DISINCENTIVE #1: The system is UnFun™

In Beta, resource nodes were the source for rare mats. Rare mats for the skill they were used for were found in the types of nodes from which the common mats were drawn. Not a great system, but at least it required players to get out and PLAY THE GAME to get their stuff.

DISINCENTIVE #2: There are so many more-fun ways to get gear, why even bother?

We have flashpoints, and heroic quests, and commendation vendors, and even Specialty Items vendors, where, if we don't have a high-end crafting skill, we can still get plenty-good gear. So, why even bother with crafting?

WHAT IS NEEDED: A system for acquiring rare mats that allows players to PLAY THE GAME for their mats!

There needs to be SOME way for players to obtain rare crafting mats that's actually fun. Loot drops off elites or bosses, rare node drops -- something. This busines of just sending out crew members on mission after mission... that's just really, REALLY UnFun. We could look up the word "UnFun" in an urban dictionary and find a description of this. Just sad. Just plain sad.

I have run enough metal scavenging missions to be 280 +.

I have had one mission hit for a critical....and it was a level one mission a hit on Nysteel.

To be a top level crafter, you have to be dedicated. You have to continuously be sending your companions on missions. You can't just wait until you are ready to make something and then think about sending them out for mats.

Fun is subjective, though. I actually find this system fun. I'm the micro-manager and the better I play the micro-managing game while I'm out doing regular stuff, the better my results are. I enjoy it, I'm sorry you don't.

I cant think of a single MMO where crafted gear was ever used for leveling unless you could make epics and were rich.

Much of my leveling in LotRO has been with the guild crafted armor sets, assuming you're dedicated to crafting fairly easy to obtain and much of it is better than quest drops for the next 5-8 levels.

Underworld Trading--I generally only get 1 mission for Metal at a time, I'm sending Zenith every time for his crit bonus, and I have a stack of 90 blues without a single purple. And yes, I could buy them on the GTN, but at that point the margin on just about anything I could sell on the GTN on my server is a couple of thousand credits.

I cant think of a single MMO where crafted gear was ever used for leveling unless you could make epics and were rich. DAoC/UO are probably the only 2 MMOs where you could get away with wearing crafted 100% crafted gear but even then its modded by spellcrafting in DAoC and by ore color in UO. Lowbie crafted gear was horrible in Rift and WoW. In Aion it was alright but again only if you critted and got a blue or orange quality item.

Thats cause you never played SWG. Crafted items were the ONLY gear to use. You could buy something from an NPC, but it was generally crap. The only way to improve upon player crafted iems was to use drops/enhancements from mobs during the crafting process.

Such a shame too, every time I open my crafting pane (and not just in SWTOR before anyones panties get all twisted up) I can only dream of a crafting system with real meaning, and not just some after thought tacked on at the end of development.

To be a top level crafter, you have to be dedicated. You have to continuously be sending your companions on missions. You can't just wait until you are ready to make something and then think about sending them out for mats.

If by dedicated you mean "stupid" I agree. I'm still trying to RE a blue belt to get a purple one after WEEKS with no success at all only because I'm too stupid (or stubborn) to give up. Crafting is a useless black pit you can keep on throwing money in for little to no result. I swear the next time I see the "schematic already known" message I'll break my keyboard.

Of course by now my gear's better than anything I could reasonably craft (and puh-leese if my proc chance on blue gear is any indication purples with augment slots don't fall under "reasonable") and getting anything sold for a price worth the effort is a horror as well even though I seem to be the only one selling these items on my server (for a more than reasonable price).

Fun is subjective, though. I actually find this system fun. I'm the micro-manager and the better I play the micro-managing game while I'm out doing regular stuff, the better my results are. I enjoy it, I'm sorry you don't.

I don't. I don't mind having to work for my crafting (I was a pretty active tradeskiller in EQ2 and most every MMO I played) but this system is just stupidly random. A masochist might think it fun, alas I'm not that masochistic just yet. I'd rather grind mobs in Blade's Edge Mountains for a week than deal with this stupid crap. At least I'd MAKE money doing so not lose hundreds of thousands that are hard to recoup since there's no market (partly because nobody wants to deal with the GTN, for which I can't blame anyone really, that thing SUCKS)

Anyway, don't take anything I said personal, it's all just my opinion but I'm beyond fed up with the current state of (max level) crafting.

Well...and on top of this, you spend tons and tons of credits in the schematic npc, buying them all, and when you get the "best/Higher ones", you can't do them because all of them need's a exotic crafting material that only drops in HM Flashpoints and operations bosses and are BoP!...

Heh yeah, when I hit 400 skill in Synthweaving on Voss, I went to the trainer and started learning all the 'top level' stuff from all three armor categories. Didn't think anything of it. Look down when I'm done (and since I didn't check before I started, this is just a close guess) I was down like 200k or more from buying all the schematics. That's just beyond stupid, I will NEVER, EVER recoup that with the way people don't buy jack **** in this game.

Heh yeah, when I hit 400 skill in Synthweaving on Voss, I went to the trainer and started learning all the 'top level' stuff from all three armor categories. Didn't think anything of it. Look down when I'm done (and since I didn't check before I started, this is just a close guess) I was down like 200k or more from buying all the schematics. That's just beyond stupid, I will NEVER, EVER recoup that with the way people don't buy jack **** in this game.

The reason people don't buy anything from the GTN is because unlike the few vocal ones on here most people struggle to make ends meet. Doing all dailies nets you around 120k. A full repair is somewhere between 35k and 50k (35k being the low end, iow if your gear's crap). Assuming you're not some pro group you'll have one or two such repair bills doing HM FPs (BT really doesn't count), this will probably go down as the bugginess of flashpoints goes down, but w/e. If you raid you'll get a bunch of these bills as well. Add to this crafting costs and no other good way to generate income outside of dailies and most people are VERY stingy with their credits.

I manage to keep my cash around 500k. Barely. I fear the day (which will be soon) when we start on actually hard content.

The difference in quality between what I can acquire for free (or minimal effort) and what I can get from the GTN just doesn't justify the money spent.

Heh yeah, when I hit 400 skill in Synthweaving on Voss, I went to the trainer and started learning all the 'top level' stuff from all three armor categories. Didn't think anything of it. Look down when I'm done (and since I didn't check before I started, this is just a close guess) I was down like 200k or more from buying all the schematics. That's just beyond stupid, I will NEVER, EVER recoup that with the way people don't buy jack **** in this game.

Well, if Synthweaving is like Armortech, a large portion of that cost is for a few Rakata pieces. These are BoP, so you aren't going to be selling them.

That said, you can make money. The key is to find the right niche. My chosen one for Cybertech, for example, is tanking earrings. I flushed a ton of materials down the RE drain, but I got the tanking earring recipes I want, for all 3 tank types (well, I'd rather not have surge on my Jugg ones, but that isn't possible). And now I sell them for 50k for normal ones, 100-150k for ones with an augment slot. The augment slot ones are actually quite good. With a purple augment, they top out just 12 shy in terms of total stat points compared to a Rakata earring. But the Rakata gives more of the stats, while my earrings can have more defense, shielding, accuracy, and/or Absorption. A mastercrafted purple earring is a better mitigation option than the Rakata one.

Synthweave and Armortech also have a niche they can exploit, but I've yet to see anyone on my server do it. Bracers and belts. On my Op, I'm using a level 46 bracer purple bracer (player made, at that). I'd gladly pay 50k for a purple level 49 or 50 one. And if it had an augment slot? I'd pay 100k+ easy.

So, identify the stats people tend to want, go through the hassle of learning those recipes, and then put 2 of each one up on the exchange for 2 days. It is free if it doesn't sell. Don't charge too little, you went through hassles, make it worth your while. If others undercut you, odds are they won't last, since the return won't really be worth their while.

Worth noting this is far from the only niche out there. I've wanted to buy hilts, for example, for a character I'm leveling. Nothing to be had in the low to mid 30s. Find the neglected market, own it.

As to getting the metals, I've recently changed my buying habits. I used to buy the occasional rare UT metal, Mandalorian Iron. But the cost of that has increased. So I've swapped to buying UT 340 missions. I'll get 4 iron from it, plus other things, and it costs me less than buying 4 iron.

Well, if Synthweaving is like Armortech, a large portion of that cost is for a few Rakata pieces. These are BoP, so you aren't going to be selling them.

 

That said, you can make money. The key is to find the right niche. My chosen one for Cybertech, for example, is tanking earrings. I flushed a ton of materials down the RE drain, but I got the tanking earring recipes I want, for all 3 tank types (well, I'd rather not have surge on my Jugg ones, but that isn't possible). And now I sell them for 50k for normal ones, 100-150k for ones with an augment slot. The augment slot ones are actually quite good. With a purple augment, they top out just 12 shy in terms of total stat points compared to a Rakata earring. But the Rakata gives more of the stats, while my earrings can have more defense, shielding, accuracy, and/or Absorption. A mastercrafted purple earring is a better mitigation option than the Rakata one.

 

Synthweave and Armortech also have a niche they can exploit, but I've yet to see anyone on my server do it. Bracers and belts. On my Op, I'm using a level 46 bracer purple bracer (player made, at that). I'd gladly pay 50k for a purple level 49 or 50 one. And if it had an augment slot? I'd pay 100k+ easy.

I'm selling bracers and belts on my server. Apparently tankassins don't buy gear. The Juggernaut stuff sells relatively well though. I'm saying relatively because the amount I manage to sell and the prices I can sell it for isn't enough to speak of actually "making money" (one belt every 2-3 days for Juggernauts, 1/week for 'sins if lucky). At this pace I might recoup my expenses for getting these schematics in 4months or so. I can't even consider actually making a decent living on this trade.

Don't know what to tell you. I do pretty good with my earrings. Sell probably 10+ a week, between the 3 tank classes. Just tonight, sold 2 regular ones and a mastercraft, so 200k tonight. Of course, that is gross. Cost per earring is probably around 25k. So typically, only make 25k per earring. But it has already paid for the cost of learning the recipes and now I'm just making money on it.

The tankassassin ones are the ones I sell the least of though. Which makes sense, heavy armor seems more tanky and the assassin tank doesn't start out nearly as tanky as the others, takes time to flesh out. So more likely to be parked to the side by more casual players.

I also sold a few blue BH targeted ones with augment slots in the last few days, at 25k a pop, as I was trying to learn the recipe for my BH. Based on how well those sold, definitely going to try out the purple market for those.

And keep in mind that's with an item you can get the Rakata version from for dailies, though at a cost of 120 commendations.

But, hey, that's my earring market. Haven't toyed with the belt and wrist market just yet. Though soon, since that BH I mentioned is armortech. I do think the earring market has one perk though, I can better tailor my stats. Wrists and Belts are sort of lacking in that department. Nothing out there like a recipe with 27 accuracy, 60 defense, and 40 shielding. All you get is one stat, no?

Fun is subjective, though. I actually find this system fun. I'm the micro-manager and the better I play the micro-managing game while I'm out doing regular stuff, the better my results are. I enjoy it, I'm sorry you don't.

Agree. The OP mentions "playing the game" multiple times. Well, crafting IS playing the game.

Agree. The OP mentions "playing the game" multiple times. Well, crafting IS playing the game.

Well, it feels like a game of slots or so for sure. It might be fun for some, personally I prefer the likes of chess, a game where skill, effort and tactics actually make a difference in the outcome instead of pure luck.

Well, it feels like a game of slots or so for sure. It might be fun for some, personally I prefer the likes of chess, a game where skill, effort and tactics actually make a difference in the outcome instead of pure luck.

Identifying the right markets, sourcing the materials, marketing in the right spots, those are all different variations of skill, effort and tactics.

The reason people don't buy anything from the GTN is because unlike the few vocal ones on here most people struggle to make ends meet. Doing all dailies nets you around 120k. A full repair is somewhere between 35k and 50k (35k being the low end, iow if your gear's crap). Assuming you're not some pro group you'll have one or two such repair bills doing HM FPs (BT really doesn't count), this will probably go down as the bugginess of flashpoints goes down, but w/e. If you raid you'll get a bunch of these bills as well. Add to this crafting costs and no other good way to generate income outside of dailies and most people are VERY stingy with their credits.

 

I manage to keep my cash around 500k. Barely. I fear the day (which will be soon) when we start on actually hard content.

 

The difference in quality between what I can acquire for free (or minimal effort) and what I can get from the GTN just doesn't justify the money spent.

i call bull. i havent had any issues at all pugging (you know, grabbing completely random people out of general on fleet) and have completed all of the hm flashpoints and both raids on normal without a full repair bill. kaon and the new bosses from karaggas palace both on the opening night without alt tabbing to check videos too.

@op between buying the purchased missions, checking the gtn for abnormal prices etc its fairly easy to get mats, and stay stocked on whatever you may need. the only "hard" item to acquire are self perpetuating power cells. biometric crystal alloys drop like candy from normal mode raids, or a 25% chance at one from a hm, which can often be further improved by "buying" passes, or going with friends.

the only real problem with the current crafting system is the issue with relearning recipes from reverse engineering, which i can only assume is a bug. i personally have had no issues selling my wares at a high profit (go by percentage, especially over time) nor have i had an issue putting my crafted gear to use.

after a week at max level i have few uses for credits at this point. i can blow another 1m credits on another speeder i guess, since i already have all of the effective crafted gear i can find (still need another implant, havent found another masterwork yet) and 4/5 of my companions are in similer gear.

Identifying the right markets, sourcing the materials, marketing in the right spots, those are all different variations of skill, effort and tactics.

You must not play chess

Even if you know where you want to enter the market you still need a huge amount of luck to get whatever item you want to sell. Been trying for weeks to get a certain belt, there's not much tactics or skill involved. Only effort, effort in grinding out the cash I need to run missions and buy the mats I need from the vendor.

I don't have much more to say about this, I'm a crafter AND a raider, always have been but crafting in ToR is just annoying.

The OP is absolutely right! Crafting as it stands right now is really no fun at all, contrary to the promisses from BioWare (Fanboy speaking here).

Further questions are:

Why is it that Biometric Crsystal Alloy is only available with Hardmodes (I am doing those, no mistake). No chances for the casual gamer here.

Why are there not quests (daylies for example) to optain the rare mats too (no, the rare mats are not offered on the GTN on my server).

There are so many possibilies to enhance the crafting system and support those who like crafting, but, alas, they are not used.

Did I mention that I do love this game :-) ?

The OP is absolutely right! Crafting as it stands right now is really no fun at all, contrary to the promisses from BioWare (Fanboy speaking here).

 

Further questions are:

Why is it that Biometric Crsystal Alloy is only available with Hardmodes (I am doing those, no mistake). No chances for the casual gamer here.

Why are there not quests (daylies for example) to optain the rare mats too (no, the rare mats are not offered on the GTN on my server).

There are so many possibilies to enhance the crafting system and support those who like crafting, but, alas, they are not used.

 

Did I mention that I do love this game :-) ?

how much more "casual" do you want the alloys offered at? both raids offer several (4 per boss with 16man) and are easily pugged in less than 3 hours. hms are easily done in less than an hour and again, are easily pugged. also, if the mats themselves arent available on your gtn are there no crafting missions either? or do you not have an alt with which you can easily farm them?

as to the complaints in the thread about missions not being offered, you do know that if you rezone you get missions reset.

The OP is absolutely right! Crafting as it stands right now is really no fun at all, contrary to the promisses from BioWare (Fanboy speaking here).

Further questions are:

Why is it that Biometric Crsystal Alloy is only available with Hardmodes (I am doing those, no mistake). No chances for the casual gamer here.

Why are there not quests (daylies for example) to optain the rare mats too (no, the rare mats are not offered on the GTN on my server).

There are so many possibilies to enhance the crafting system and support those who like crafting, but, alas, they are not used.

Did I mention that I do love this game :-) ?