Hokkay, so I am not a EU expert so was hoping someone could help me understand this; when you play through the Empire campaign, as any class, you inevitably come across a lot of humans acting racist against any non-human / non-sith members of the empire.

 

But that makes so little sense to me. Wasn't the population of Korriban dominantly sith when Naga Sadow came to power, over a thousand years before the Great Galactic War? In fact, were there any humans on Korriban there, at the time?

 

I'm asking because the empire looks to be dominated by humans but how can that be, when sith should, according to my logic anyway, be the dominant race in the empire? When exactly were humans introduced to the population and when did they become majority of the population?

I'm asking because the empire looks to be dominated by humans but how can that be, when sith should, according to my logic anyway, be the dominant race in the empire? When exactly were humans introduced to the population and when did they become majority of the population?

 

I don't know the "lore" answer to that question, but the Empire (movies, games, few EU books I've read, etc.) has always been humancentric. I've never heard that directed at the purebloods (so maybe they are considered a special caste), but I imagine the sith are "fine" with any hatred they can feed off of and use to control the population.

 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the Sith were a race on Korriban that interbred with dark (primarily human) Jedi. I think a lot of the sith consider them a novelty more than the "leadership caste" that the purebloods seem to think of themselves as. Sort of like the IRL monarchy .

 

- Arcada

Edited January 14, 2014 by Nydus

It's not explained very well. The Republic killed off a lot of the pureblood Sith and most of them bred with humans, and the Sith genes weakened over time.

It's not explained very well. The Republic killed off a lot of the pureblood Sith and most of them bred with humans, and the Sith genes weakened over time.

 

Where the pureblood Sith ever the dangerous Sith? I always got the impression that the fallen jedi who called themselves Sith were the real threat, while the purebloods were just this insular race living on the Korriban...

 

- Arcada

Where the pureblood Sith ever the dangerous Sith? I always got the impression that the fallen jedi who called themselves Sith were the real threat, while the purebloods were just this insular race living on the Korriban...

 

- Arcada

They became one after Ajunta Pall more or less created the Sith traditions of dark Jedi.

They became one after Ajunta Pall more or less created the Sith traditions of dark Jedi.

 

So basically, they were savages living on a planet until humans came and developed traditions they've now co-opted as traits of their race.

 

It fits perfectly with my main's disdain for them . A dying race of pretenders longing for the glory days that never were.

 

An Empire of Humans, for Humans! ahahha.

 

- Arcada

It's not explained very well. The Republic killed off a lot of the pureblood Sith and most of them bred with humans, and the Sith genes weakened over time.

Yeah, I've tried looking into as much as I can but just doesn't make a lot of sense. I know there were some dark jedi that found Korriban after the Hundred Year Darkness but makes little sense that the sith race would regress so much, even after a long time of interbreeding, much less explain why the human genes survived and the sith did not.

 

Any depictions of Korriban and the sith, prior to the Great Hyperspace War are always of pureblood siths. I can find no humans in any of those pictures.

 

Where the pureblood Sith ever the dangerous Sith? I always got the impression that the fallen jedi who called themselves Sith were the real threat, while the purebloods were just this insular race living on the Korriban...

 

- Arcada

I guess it depends how to define "threat" but I wouldn't describe the original sith as just "savages." As I understand it, Korriban has always been touched, if you will, by the dark side and the sith were able to actually drive off the Rakata from their world. Might have been in the dark ages of their race but still a formidable feat.

Yeah, I've tried looking into as much as I can but just doesn't make a lot of sense. I know there were some dark jedi that found Korriban after the Hundred Year Darkness but makes little sense that the sith race would regress so much, even after a long time of interbreeding, much less explain why the human genes survived and the sith did not.

 

Any depictions of Korriban and the sith, prior to the Great Hyperspace War are always of pureblood siths. I can find no humans in any of those pictures.

 

 

I guess it depends how to define "threat" but I wouldn't describe the original sith as just "savages." As I understand it, Korriban has always been touched, if you will, by the dark side and the sith were able to actually drive off the Rakata from their world. Might have been in the dark ages of their race but still a formidable feat.

 

A lot of this I concur with. The Ancient Sith dedicated thousands upon thousands of years of trial and error with Alchemy and Magic. Just that they were relatively speaking a bunch of experimentalists and not really dominate force users (with select few exceptions ie King Adas) so when the Dark Jedi arrived they were able to be in charge after some infiltration. Prior to their arrival the Sith had made a small empire for themselves from leftover Rakata technology of whom they drove off, led by Adas, in 27700 BBY.

 

While we only commonly think of their being only 5 Dark Jedi Exiles there were actually several more that Syn states "were just lucky to make it through the war" but these 5 were the "chiefs" so to speak. Given that Sith had naturally advanced Dark Side techniques for thousands of years Syn feels as if they were destined to lose the 100 Years of Darkness War to discover Korriban.

 

Then begins the mixing of breeds and even Sadow, Kressh, and Marka Ragnos were half breeds. For whatever reason humans end up being the much more prevalent species but it is stated that 97.8 of Vitiate's Empire comes from Sith pure-blood but the amount is essentially negligible.

 

Edit: This question is more appropriate for the "Star Wars" portion of the forums as that is just for EU questions. Some of the regulars there are more knowledgeable than I.

Edited January 14, 2014 by sell-dog

A few months ago, I created a post on this issue here. Like you, I am deeply dissatisfied with SWTOR's explanation of the setting, and I find that the lore justification is extraordinarily flimsy.

Has anyone read the Lost Tribe of the Sith e-books? This thread has me wondering if the inconsistency is explained at all in them, since they focus on members of the original Sith Empire that clearly included a significant Human population (and I know tensions between the Humans and Sith species flare up over the course of those stories, but I have no idea if that was all post-crash politics or if there was an element of preexisting strife).

 

Without knowing of any explanation in those e-books:

Real World Explanation: The Sith Empire in this game is supposed to be very evocative of the Galactic Empire from the movies, which was very Human-centric. They don't completely ignore the Sith Pureblood roots of the Sith Empire, but the overall "flavor" of that faction deliberately parallels the pro-Human empire.

 

In-Universe Explanation: I believe most of the Dark Jedi who took control of the Sith Empire were Human, and Ajunta Pall, the first proper Dark Lord of the Sith (which at that time very much meant Dark Lord Over the Sith) was Human. The rule of these Human Dark Lords only ended when generations of interbreeding made the rulers indistinguishable from actual pure-blooded Sith, but a sense of racial superiority may have become an undercurrent in their society by that time.

 

My best guess is that when the Sith Empire expanded, conquering over a hundred worlds in the Stygian Caldera and the rest of what came to be known as Sith Space, several of the worlds they conquered had significant Human populations. The Sith homeworlds of Ziost and Korriban were the power center of the Empire, so by virtue of being the rulers of those worlds, the Sith species maintained a top-dog position within the Empire's hierarchy, but Humans could very well have been miles above the "alien" races that were made slaves and second-class citizens throughout these subjugated worlds. (Most of the action in the Golden Age of the Sith/Fall of the Sith Empire comics takes place on those Sith homeworlds, so that is the best in-universe explanation I can give for why we only see Sith Purebloods among the Empire's forces shown.)

 

Once Korriban and Ziost were sacked at the end of the Hyperspace War, the racial hierarchy between the Sith Purebloods and Humans may have leveled out during the decades-long exodus and subsequent colonization of Dromund Kaas, especially since most of the Sith Purebloods had been wiped out during the war. The Capital of the Empire was no longer a native Sith Pureblood world (the Emperor's propaganda labeling it the lost homeworld aside), and the Purebloods were now a minority in the population, so Humans were able to rise to an equal position of power - while keeping the "lesser" alien races at the bottom rung of society.

Edited January 14, 2014 by DarthDymond

Has anyone read the Lost Tribe of the Sith e-books? This thread has me wondering if the inconsistency is explained at all in them, since they focus on members of the original Sith Empire that clearly included a significant Human population (and I know tensions between the Humans and Sith species flare up over the course of those stories, but I have no idea if that was all post-crash politics or if there was an element of preexisting strife).

 

Yes I've read them and no they do not touch on this subject at all except for maybe a brief mention of what we already know in that the humans and Sith (species) interbred. The humans in those books did answer to Sith (Dark Side User) and Seelah Korsin was actually a slave before the crash but the hierarchy or if there were human Dark Lords later in the timeline after the Exiles arrived is not in there.

Edited January 14, 2014 by sell-dog

Interestingly, In the empire, pure bloods aren't classified as alien.(alien being anything that isn't human) At the beginning of the sith inquisitor story, Spindrall, a hermit you are tasked to meet, greets alien species different than pure bloods or humans. In fact, in the red reaper flashpoint, when Darth Ikoral returns from his search for purebloods outside the empire and begins a purge of all alien sith, it is made apparent that until recently pure bloods were the highest caste of imperial society. This is further made apparent by conversation options purebloded players could have that made it obvious many pure bloods still hold themselves higher. While the emperor's voice appears to be human in the jedi knight story, but that is just a vessel for his consciousness he was born a pure blood. Pure blood is actually an incorrect term, and until this game came out, the term was sith hybrid, because while not human themselves, they had greatly intermingled with humans. Sith are treated as they are in the empire because the original empire was a handful of humans fighting with the pure bloods. The reason that the empire in the movies is primarily human with less alien support that the empire of the old republic era is that the pure bloods were wiped out or had the pure blood bred out of them between the time of now and the movies.

Most humans of the Sith Empire have a little bit of Sith (species) blood inside them. Remember Revan's genocide attempt, was to target those with Sith blood, that included humans of the Empire, not just purebloods. Edited January 15, 2014 by Sadishist

Purebloods are the (actual) dominant 'race' in Imperial space, at least as far as Sith are - there's a quest on Korriban where you have to scan human-looking Sith masters to see how much 'Pureblood' blood they hold, with the promise that those who failed to have enough would be 'dealt with'.

 

True sith evolved to subsist and consume the Dark Side - they were a heavily force sensitive race with abilities similar to the Tarantak, which is to say the innate ability to spread corruption/make the lightside weaker/gain power from places of dark power. When Dark Jedi arrived on Korriban, they saw what the Sith could do and began to learn from them, teaching the Sith how to make lightsabers and to fight with blades, while the Sith taught them how to channel their anger, and how to survive the darkside.

 

The Sith were masters of 'sorcery' and 'alchemy', which were rites and rituals using the dark side of the force not for short term small time gain like shooting a lightning bolt, but that instead allowed them to do things like mutate species, control minds, and even create Rakghouls.

 

The humans learned this alchemy and used it to make humans and Sith biologically compatible for children. Eventually the humans outbred the 'Sith', pure Sith became rarer and rarer. Even worse, the Sith traits were becoming rarer and rarer. It was at this time that the Dark Jedi 'Sith' left the known reaches of space, spreading out into the unknown regions.

 

What the game calls Sith 'Purebloods' are actually humans who simply show the traits of their Sith ancestry (98% of the Imperial population, citizens only, has some Sith ancestry), with the traits showing through based on luck. These people are treated as being naturally more talented at the force, and more in tune with the Dark Side, and until the return to known space were the only 'race' allowed to hold command positions.

 

They are, for all intents and purposes, better than human in the eyes of the Empire, though a few Dark Lords are trying to change that, due to their own ancestry.

 

So basically, they were savages living on a planet until humans came and developed traditions they've now co-opted as traits of their race.

 

It fits perfectly with my main's disdain for them . A dying race of pretenders longing for the glory days that never were.

 

An Empire of Humans, for Humans! ahahha.

 

- Arcada

 

This is also incorrect - the Sith were 'primitive', but they were powerful in a way that wasn't related to technology. Even the lowest caste of Sith had as much power as the dark Jedi who originally landed on Korriban - they were an insanely powerful race when it came to the force, with 99.99% of the members of their race being able to actively use it to a level where a human would be labled a prodigy.

 

This is why the Dark Jedi worked so hard to interbreed with them - their children inherited Sith traits, including that tie to the force.

 

However, Purebloods nowadays are far enough down the line in terms of purity that they no longer can boast a 99.99% force adeptness, with it being something like 90% can feel the force at all, but only 50% being able to do so at a level that they could survive the academy. (Which is far better than humans - humans in Star Wars boast something like a 3-4% chance of being able to feel the force at all)

 

 

The one thing the humans were better at was basically having sex. They, for some reason, were able to have half-breed children more quickly than the Sith race could have children with each other. Humans also proved very adept at adapting to the darkside throughout Korriban, so the Sith enjoyed them.

Edited January 15, 2014 by FabulousDoctor

Purebloods are the (actual) dominant 'race' in Imperial space, at least as far as Sith are - there's a quest on Korriban where you have to scan human-looking Sith masters to see how much 'Pureblood' blood they hold, with the promise that those who failed to have enough would be 'dealt with'.

 

True sith evolved to subsist and consume the Dark Side - they were a heavily force sensitive race with abilities similar to the Tarantak, which is to say the innate ability to spread corruption/make the lightside weaker/gain power from places of dark power. When Dark Jedi arrived on Korriban, they saw what the Sith could do and began to learn from them, teaching the Sith how to make lightsabers and to fight with blades, while the Sith taught them how to channel their anger, and how to survive the darkside.

 

The Sith were masters of 'sorcery' and 'alchemy', which were rites and rituals using the dark side of the force not for short term small time gain like shooting a lightning bolt, but that instead allowed them to do things like mutate species, control minds, and even create Rakghouls.

 

The humans learned this alchemy and used it to make humans and Sith biologically compatible for children. Eventually the humans outbred the 'Sith', pure Sith became rarer and rarer. Even worse, the Sith traits were becoming rarer and rarer. It was at this time that the Dark Jedi 'Sith' left the known reaches of space, spreading out into the unknown regions.

 

What the game calls Sith 'Purebloods' are actually humans who simply show the traits of their Sith ancestry (98% of the Imperial population, citizens only, has some Sith ancestry), with the traits showing through based on luck. These people are treated as being naturally more talented at the force, and more in tune with the Dark Side, and until the return to known space were the only 'race' allowed to hold command positions.

 

They are, for all intents and purposes, better than human in the eyes of the Empire, though a few Dark Lords are trying to change that, due to their own ancestry.

 

 

 

This is also incorrect - the Sith were 'primitive', but they were powerful in a way that wasn't related to technology. Even the lowest caste of Sith had as much power as the dark Jedi who originally landed on Korriban - they were an insanely powerful race when it came to the force, with 99.99% of the members of their race being able to actively use it to a level where a human would be labled a prodigy.

 

This is why the Dark Jedi worked so hard to interbreed with them - their children inherited Sith traits, including that tie to the force.

 

However, Purebloods nowadays are far enough down the line in terms of purity that they no longer can boast a 99.99% force adeptness, with it being something like 90% can feel the force at all, but only 50% being able to do so at a level that they could survive the academy. (Which is far better than humans - humans in Star Wars boast something like a 3-4% chance of being able to feel the force at all)

 

 

The one thing the humans were better at was basically having sex. They, for some reason, were able to have half-breed children more quickly than the Sith race could have children with each other. Humans also proved very adept at adapting to the darkside throughout Korriban, so the Sith enjoyed them.

^very much this.

An additional fact -

 

When the dark jedi came to Korriban, it was originally a time of subjugation - their technology overwhelmed the SIth (this was how they came to learn Sith Alchemy). It was only after the first few generations of interbreeding that the Sith-mixbreeds became the 'ruling class'.

 

And to the OP's question, Naga Sadow was himself a mixbreed, same with Marka Ragnos, Sadow was particularly of weak blood - he had a human skin tone and fewer facial ridges than most Sith. By the time when he was born this was 'normal' however.

 

Edit: a TL;DR verison

 

Sith were evolved with dark side taint. Learned to use the Force for 'alchemy'

 

Dark Jedi were thrown out of the order, subjugated the Sith population with their battle training.

 

Dark Jedi used alchemy to make Sith have their babies.

 

These babies all had Force abilities. Dark Jedi kept doing things.

 

No pure sith remained. Mixbreeds start looking more like pure humans - Sith blood becomes weaker. Sith Empire panics, flees into the unknown regions of space (only partially because of it)

 

Sith Empire return - they managed to revive the Sith appearance through alchemy and eugenics while outside of the known reaches.

 

These are weaker than old Hybrids, but considered a status symbol. Were dominant for awhile, some factions believe they still should be (red reaper). Generally considered to be a little better than humans, but only barely.

Edited January 15, 2014 by FabulousDoctor

Where the pureblood Sith ever the dangerous Sith? I always got the impression that the fallen jedi who called themselves Sith were the real threat, while the purebloods were just this insular race living on the Korriban...

 

- Arcada

 

Well the Pureblood Sith were strong aligned with the Darkside even before the Fallen Jedi came, they named themselves after King Adas (called the Sith'ari) who was a perfect embodyment of the Darkside. They continued the be predominantly Darkside aligned and they were all force users, strong ones too.

 

So yes, even if they had never been touched by fallen Jedi they would have been a threat, just not as big a threat as they became.

This is also incorrect - the Sith were 'primitive', but they were powerful in a way that wasn't related to technology. Even the lowest caste of Sith had as much power as the dark Jedi who originally landed on Korriban - they were an insanely powerful race when it came to the force, with 99.99% of the members of their race being able to actively use it to a level where a human would be labled a prodigy.

 

Oh, you misunderstand me. I am uninterested in the truth of this matter. I will undermine any pathway to power denied to me by blood. It is not in the interests of a Human Sith (my Ord'os) to believe this racial nonsense so I will twist the history to suit my purposes.

 

- Arcada