I feel that he Sniper/GS isn't balanced properly compared to our DPS friends who bring more utility to the table, especially in actual dynamic combat. This becomes most evident at endgame.

That lack of utility, versus other damage classes, makes us the least desirable ACs. Even if the Sniper/GS were somehow "guaranteed" to be top DPS, it would only be by 5%. Other classes can match our DPS, plus bring utility (i.e., heal, cleanse, movement). I consider that utility quite significant and outweighing any max DPS numbers we could theoretically achieve.

Now add in that Sniper/GS are more difficult to play properly. So the reward for playing the AC well is to be on par with other, easier to play, damage specs but lack their additional utility.

It would seem more balanced to have an easier to play class lack the utility, and that utility be a reward for playing a more difficult class well but I'm not a game designer. Would appreciate some enlightenment from a dev about this.

I have thought about the added range of the classes, but I am unsure if the extra 5 meters is actually significant. In pve it doesn't matter and in pvp it is easily negated by proper game play, making it virtually insignificant. To be clear, I am focusing on level 50 game play.

What, if anything, is being / should be done to address this perceived imbalance? Or, if someone would, explain why the extra utility of the other DPS classes should not be considered significant. Thanks.

Disclaimers: PVPer. I talent Engineering x/31/x as I believe that spec brings the most additional usable utility to pvp. Love my Sniper. Playing one since August 2011. I do not believe I am a masochist.

When I was a greenhorn sniper, I was convinced we had no utility for group combat.

Now that I am a seasoned sniper I can see the impact we can have in a team environment. Other classes are more about protecting/Aiding The players. We are about protecting the zones.

• Orbital Strike, plasma probe - Zone denial, Zone defense. Orbital strike is amazingly powerful and zone control plays a large part in all 3 warzones.
  

• Ballistic Shield/Entrench – Zone Defence. When used appropriately it can keep team mates on the zone for longer.
  

• Priority target control - we have the best tools to deal with the nastiest targets, especially sentinels (incredibly useful in the current state of the game)
  

• Burst – We have some of the best burst damage available. Our ability to stack nukes can overwhelm players very quickly
  

• Long range interrupt – vital.
  

Well played snipers/operatives are devastating

When I was a greenhorn sniper, I was convinced we had no utility for group combat.

 

Now that I am a seasoned sniper I can see the impact we can have in a team environment. Other classes are more about protecting/Aiding The players. We are about protecting the zones.

• Orbital Strike, plasma probe - Zone denial, Zone defense. Orbital strike is amazingly powerful and zone control plays a large part in all 3 warzones.
  

• Ballistic Shield/Entrench – Zone Defence. When used appropriately it can keep team mates on the zone for longer.
  

• Priority target control - we have the best tools to deal with the nastiest targets, especially sentinels (incredibly useful in the current state of the game)
  

• Burst – We have some of the best burst damage available. Our ability to stack nukes can overwhelm players very quickly
  

• Long range interrupt – vital.
  

 

Well played snipers/operatives are devastating

agreed, coming from a valor 76 war hero sniper (31/3/7)...

i single queue often but when i join a friend's premade, it's either 2 or 3 snipers, a healer, and some sort of jedi...

double, triple and quadruple orbital strikes are just fun to see...

we get our cover/root bug fixed, and they are also giving us a heal debuff, in combination with the across the board healing nerf, and tone down and fix of other classes...

we're going to shine even more...

agreed, coming from a valor 76 war hero sniper (31/3/7)...

 

i single queue often but when i join a friend's premade, it's either 2 or 3 snipers, a healer, and some sort of jedi...

 

double, triple and quadruple orbital strikes are just fun to see...

 

we get our cover/root bug fixed, and they are also giving us a heal debuff, in combination with the across the board healing nerf, and tone down and fix of other classes...

 

we're going to shine even more...

Its funny you should say that about the premade. I ended up in a team with a well played healer OP and another well played sniper, most enjoyable combination I've had

The 3 of us played a vital roll in defending the void star doors against 8 pubs (we only had 6 players). Orbitals everywhere.

My orbital alone hits for 3.4-3.7k per tick (4 ticks). Now multiply that by 2 or 3 LOL

Most awesome display of zone domination I have ever seen.

Sniper has decent utlity in my opinion cover bust/stun(forget name blade move)/leg shot/flashbang/shatter shot.... the thing that makes sniper bad in groups is snipes are **** dps

Yeah for me it's a choice: do I want to put up mad DPS/kills or do I want to bring more utility to the group. It seems like we Snipers can do one at the expense of the other. While other DPS classes can put up the big numbers and still bring additional utility.

When I was a greenhorn sniper, I was convinced we had no utility for group combat.

 

Now that I am a seasoned sniper I can see the impact we can have in a team environment. Other classes are more about protecting/Aiding The players. We are about protecting the zones.

• Orbital Strike, plasma probe - Zone denial, Zone defense. Orbital strike is amazingly powerful and zone control plays a large part in all 3 warzones.
  

• Ballistic Shield/Entrench – Zone Defence. When used appropriately it can keep team mates on the zone for longer.
  

• Priority target control - we have the best tools to deal with the nastiest targets, especially sentinels (incredibly useful in the current state of the game)
  

• Burst – We have some of the best burst damage available. Our ability to stack nukes can overwhelm players very quickly
  

• Long range interrupt – vital.
  

 

Well played snipers/operatives are devastating

I am glad you were able to progress to the point where you realized the utility that the Sniper/GS bring.

This wasn't motivated by some L2P issue but thanks for the abilities rundown, hopefully it will help someone who may be unfamiliar with the class.

I could list other classes abilities and skills, and what they bring to the table, but at the end of that road I still end up asking the questions I posted in the op.

And this isn't about how devastating a Sniper/GS or Operative can or can't be.

Using Kalliadies format as a template.

Speaking as a 70something Valor Sniper (who checks after 70?), this is what my Leth/Eng build brings to the table.

• 30m AoE 30% speed debuff for 6 seconds on three targets.
  

• 30m single target 30% speed debuff for 18s.
  

• A snare/root escape in addition to my base CC breaker on a seperate 45second cooldown. (Has been absolute gold with the root/cover bug).
  

• About 60% of my damage is internal, and more like 80% of my burst damage.
  

Obviously this is in addition to the usual CC's that all snipers bring:

• 30m 8 second single target root, breaks on 2 seconds with damage.
  

• 30m AoE mezz
  

• Melee 4s stun.
  

• PBAoE Knockback with 5s root, breaks on 2 seconds with damage.
  

Sniper's biggest problem is that everyone thinks that all we can do is damage - and since we're not meant to blow any other class away in damage, we need to stop pretending it's all we can do because it's making us look bad.

When I was a greenhorn sniper, I was convinced we had no utility for group combat.

 

Now that I am a seasoned sniper I can see the impact we can have in a team environment. Other classes are more about protecting/Aiding The players. We are about protecting the zones.

• Orbital Strike, plasma probe - Zone denial, Zone defense. Orbital strike is amazingly powerful and zone control plays a large part in all 3 warzones.
  

• Ballistic Shield/Entrench – Zone Defence. When used appropriately it can keep team mates on the zone for longer.
  

• Priority target control - we have the best tools to deal with the nastiest targets, especially sentinels (incredibly useful in the current state of the game)
  

• Burst – We have some of the best burst damage available. Our ability to stack nukes can overwhelm players very quickly
  

• Long range interrupt – vital.
  

 

Well played snipers/operatives are devastating

While your points are accurate, every class can construct some scenarios where they bring strengths like you did. One reason lots of people don't like to play snipers (or have them in an organized groups) is due to the severity of their WEAKNESSES - not strengths - compared to other classes. Classes with stealth, mobility, healing, virtual immunity, and/or "tankiness" require less reliance on others.

Frankly, BW noticed this too and that's why they implemented the one thing that will get snipers invited to a high-level pvp group (and something you left off your list) -- the new ranged healing debuff.

Without this new healing debuff, I'm afraid your anecdotes of 'awesomeness' about Snipers would remain where they are now -- in the non-rated WZ realm of mostly PuGs.

I am glad you were able to progress to the point where you realized the utility that the Sniper/GS bring.

 

This wasn't motivated by some L2P issue but thanks for the abilities rundown, hopefully it will help someone who may be unfamiliar with the class.

 

I could list other classes abilities and skills, and what they bring to the table, but at the end of that road I still end up asking the questions I posted in the op.

 

And this isn't about how devastating a Sniper/GS or Operative can or can't be.

I am sorry if my post was read as condescending or implying that you were new. This was not my intent, I was merely expressing that I too “initially” believed that snipers had the least useful Utility.

Originally I was of the mind that “utility” related to shielding, healing, buffing, taunting, pulling and charging friendly players. Anything we could offer to support our Teammates beyond DPS. Having none of these made me believe our utility sucked.

Then I came to realise that zone/target control IS a vital utility that we are not surpassed in. I can shift the battle defensively or offensively in a passive fashion. Orbital, for instance, doesn’t need to hit anyone to do its job.

Perhaps I have misunderstood your OP, but are you not questioning the utility of snipers/gunslinger? My response remains the same. Our strategic utility is great though subtle.

While your points are accurate, every class can construct some scenarios where they bring strengths like you did. One reason lots of people don't like to play snipers (or have them in an organized groups) is due to the severity of their WEAKNESSES - not strengths - compared to other classes. Classes with stealth, mobility, healing, virtual immunity, and/or "tankiness" require less reliance on others.

 

Frankly, BW noticed this too and that's why they implemented the one thing that will get snipers invited to a high-level pvp group (and something you left off your list) -- the new ranged healing debuff.

 

Without this new healing debuff, I'm afraid your anecdotes of 'awesomeness' about Snipers would remain where they are now -- in the non-rated WZ realm of mostly PuGs.

If you think a 20% healing debuff is the only ace up the sleeve then.. (juicy bonus though)

I don’t see a point debating with you so…..Agree to disagree.

….Strongly