You probably dont find tanks because tanks get tired of hearing **** about not keeping aggro or sucking... then they go do the same flashpoint with their guild without a hiccup.

 

Pretty much nails it.

 

Oddly enough, ran Athiss HM earlier today and the healer was telling me how to tank, then tries to cc one of the Jedi as we approached the boss room, wiped us all.

 

In addition, most tanks I've run with are alpha's, including myself, which most people are not. You have to know how to lead and have thick skin. It's really that simple.

Experienced tank in other MMOs here (new to SWTOR) but it's probably for the same reasons as other games:

 

1) As a tank you're expected to know everything. Where any pats are, what the kill order is for each pull, any special abilities, how to position the boss, what the boss' abilities are, how to navigate the instance, etc.

 

2) There's less room for error as a tank (same goes for healing). A newbie DPS can still be carried while they are learning, a newbie tank can often cause a wipe.

 

3) There's a lot of pressure on the tank; this is especially detrimental when you have a tank new to the game trying to learn content they've never been to before. It gets especially frustrating if the tank is new and everyone else is on an alt or otherwise experienced because they expect a "fast run" and aren't helpful.

 

4) Tanking used to essentially be the "easy mode" role, since all you really had to do was position the mobs and hold aggro, and maybe move out of things (the tradeoff for having to be the group leader and the pressure). For whatever reason game developers listened to the minority clamoring about how boring tanking was, and added additional complexity to the role. This turned a lot of people off; I wanted to tank because I did NOT want to deal with complex rotations/priority systems and having to micromanage cooldowns, but now in almost every game that still has the "trinity" tanking is just as complex, if not sometimes moreso, than healing or DPS.

Edited May 25, 2013 by waynemolina

Did you forget one of the bosses loves using Force Push?

 

No, but I don't bother tanking him. I learned early on to just run at him, eat the KB and then move on to the others while I let the DPS focus him down. Proper positioning helps mitigate the knockback from the agent/smuggler. Failing that he also knocks you over 10m and roots you so you can just leap back in once the root ends.

I was just doing Mandalorian Raiders as a PT tank and I was reminded of another reason tanking isn't fun.

 

That *********** KNOCKBACK. Holy crap its annoying. It felt like I spent the whole instance being knocked around.

I have a hard time relating to this being a complaint against tanking.

 

When I'm on my tank, my primary purpose is to keep the healer and dps from taking damage. My secondary purpose is to deal with any mechanics needed to manipulate the fight to completion. And lastly, to do as much damage as possible to bring the fight to an early close.

 

Even when getting knocked back, I can still do these things. Perhaps I would do more damage if I never got knocked back. But as long as I can maintain aggro and manage the fight, all is good.

 

And as a PT, don't you have a 30 second cd on Hydraulic Override?

ive played tanks almost exclusivley in every mmo ive played...SWTOR is by far the most annoying game to tank in that ive played. knockbacks are everywehre and its just flat out simply annoying as piss.

Experienced tank in other MMOs here (new to SWTOR) but it's probably for the same reasons as other games:

 

1) As a tank you're expected to know everything. Where any pats are, what the kill order is for each pull, any special abilities, how to position the boss, what the boss' abilities are, how to navigate the instance, etc.

 

2) There's less room for error as a tank (same goes for healing). A newbie DPS can still be carried while they are learning, a newbie tank can often cause a wipe.

 

3) There's a lot of pressure on the tank; this is especially detrimental when you have a tank new to the game trying to learn content they've never been to before. It gets especially frustrating if the tank is new and everyone else is on an alt or otherwise experienced because they expect a "fast run" and aren't helpful.

 

4) Tanking used to essentially be the "easy mode" role, since all you really had to do was position the mobs and hold aggro, and maybe move out of things (the tradeoff for having to be the group leader and the pressure). For whatever reason game developers listened to the minority clamoring about how boring tanking was, and added additional complexity to the role. This turned a lot of people off; I wanted to tank because I did NOT want to deal with complex rotations/priority systems and having to micromanage cooldowns, but now in almost every game that still has the "trinity" tanking is just as complex, if not sometimes moreso, than healing or DPS.

 

QFT.

 

Okay this will be rather long-winded and may seem like rambling, but I think this is a complex issue.

 

While my main char is a DPS Guardian, I'm kinda geared to handle both roles just so I don't have to wait hours to que. I know what I can and can't tank, anyways:

 

First, people with the most experience concerning a flashpoint should be the ones taking charge and briefing group members. In all honesty, if the DPS is the one that knows the flashpoint like the back of their hand, they should be the one taking charge, not a tank that has never ran that mission.

 

The developers went on overkill when it comes to knockbacks, and yes it makes life difficult for a tank guardian but that isn't the core issue. There is a lot of things that a tank has to keep track of, and regardless of what some DPS think, tanks do have a limit to how much punishment they can take.

 

Pre-2.0, there were a few instances where a tank got slammed hard and I had to switch from dps to tank and try to buy time or serve as tank to finish a boss off. I'm currently leveling a sentinel cathar char because I want to play through the Jedi Knight storyline again without rerolling my guardian. I've noticed that sentinels have quite a few damage reduction skills, I'm guessing that other dps have similar skills (particularly gunslingers), and could generate large threat values if the tank needs to be bailed out for a short period of time.

 

To be frank when I started playing Old Republic, the previous game I played had no real skill tree, and I could do tanking, dpsing, and healing with the same char just depending on my mood at the time, since I've never played class based games until this one, I approach things from a slightly different standpoint.

 

When I dps, I try to pay some attention to other people's hp (particularly the tank), if I think the tank is in serious trouble I will pull the aggie from the tank briefly in order to give the healer time to heal the tank, and then proceed to dump threat using focused defense. This is actually harder to do now post 2.0, due to stat reductions, however that doesn't excuse the fact that DPS need to pay attention.

 

People that have run flashpoints before, need to explain things in detail for people if they haven't run the FP before, I don't care if you're a dps, a healer, or a tank...

 

Another thing and this applies to tanks, healers, and dps: Learn some patience people and try to at least have a rough understanding of the mechanics of other classes.

 

For instance people here complain about DPS sentinels jumping too soon...

 

Well Sentinels and Guardians along with their darkside counterparts operate on different mechanics compared to the other classes. For Sentinels and Guardians, the longer they stay out of combat the less effective they are from a dps standpoint, because they have to build focus before they can use their more powerful attacks, time out of combat to regain health causes the other classes to regain force/energy/etc.

 

A Sentinel DPS player is thus more inclined to want to move quickly and keep their focus bar up.

 

This doesn't excuse the fact that sentinels need to sometimes learn to slow down and let the other classes recover their strength before charging in.

 

Shadows and scoundrels need to understand that most classes don't have stealth...

 

Finally, there are some missions that a group just won't be able to handle either due to personality conflicts or the lack or a ranged dps, lack of a melee dps, etc. other times you might just be plain unlucky.

 

Instead of yelling at each other over who is at fault for what, people should try to sit down and work through what went wrong, how things can be improved. Don't bite people's heads off for this and that, analyze what went wrong and try to figure out how to make it so that issue won't be a problem next time.

 

Two good DPS and a good healer can get through a fairly difficult FP with a mediocre tank, just like a good tank and good healer can get mediocre dps through a tough FP. People just have to figure out the strengths and weaknesses of the charecters in the group, the play style of the gamers in the group, and then work out how to use that get through the FP.

 

If people know how to use their defensive skills, a sentinel for instance can take a pretty good amount of punishment and is hardly a glass cannon.

 

If you can get everyone on a chat network that helps enormously, if not you need to make sure the players that can't join that network the gameplan ahead of time. There are a lot of fiascos that result in wipeouts because a member of the group is unaware of what the rest of the group intends to do. If a player isn't up to a mission yet, but is clearly trying it would be better to add the person to a friend list before getting them to leave and compliment them on their effort but suggest they work to get stronger gear before attempting the mission again.

 

I've seen obnoxious tanks, healers with attitude issues, DPSers that can't listen and just go charging in like idiots; but then I've seen tanks that are very respectful, healers that are extremely patient, and DPSers that try to keep up or even take charge DPSers that are very good at coming up with ways to get a group through a FP. People just need to keep calm and think things through, instead of jumping on each other which doesn't accomplish anything other than people being less inclined to group with others.

After spending a significant amount of time tanking ops/ hardmodes on my PT, I have found it to be quite easy. 90% of whats required of you is just knowing the fight, once you have that you can practically faceroll buttons and hold aggro very easily on everything around you.

 

It isn't nearly as stressful or difficult most people make it out to be. Most people instantly jump to blaming the tank for any mishaps, even if they were out of your control. I guess that's why most people don't play them.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Saacius

I actually enjoy tanking for the most part but I have to give myself a break from time to time. Between groups where dps queue as healers or actual dps have no clue what their doing, sometimes it brings a lot more stress than I want to have playing a game.

After spending a significant amount of time tanking ops/ hardmodes on my PT, I have found it to be quite easy. 90% of whats required of you is just knowing the fight, once you have that you can practically faceroll buttons and hold aggro very easily on everything around you.

 

It isn't nearly as stressful or difficult most people make it out to be. Most people instantly jump to blaming the tank for any mishaps, even if they were out of your control. I guess that's why most people don't play them.

 

Here...I shortened the post for you so it would be more realistic.

 

"on my PT, I have found it to be quite easy. 90% of whats required of you is faceroll buttons and hold aggro very easily on everything around you. "

 

I'M KIDDING!

It's a JOKE!

What fun is being a Tankassin and trolling if you can't poke the Powertechs?

(Sorry, it was right there and I couldn't pass it up) <3!

It's not just this game, it's every game. The reason why more people don't do PVE is because it's a hassle getting a decent tank. The Tank is the most important piece in the group. Usually your success is going to be governed by how good your tank is. Most of the time the Tank is the coach in any instance, he tends to be more knowledgeable about the situation at hand, and what tactics need to be employed when it comes to downing specific mobs and bosses. With that being said, that's the very reason why more people don't play Tanks. In it's totality it's very intimidating because they have the most responsibility in the group. If the Tank messes up, everyone dies, if a DPS messes up, it's hardly noticeable unless one pulls a Leroy Jenkins.

tank is by far the easiest spec for level up and solo content.

Why people don't like to play tanks? beyond me.

 

I love my tanks. Easy to solo, easy to play in a group, I get to control the flow or even when I am playing with friends and I am not THE tank I still off tank and help control the crap that wont pull.

 

Why am I not in the que?

 

I hate pugs in general and I detest tanking for pugs more. I wish there was a nicer way to sy it but in the end, I don't need the agrivation that comes from tanking in a random pick up group.

I am having great fun leveling as a tank, and make a game of trying to keep mobs from running at my Companion. It is quite novel after playing almost all healers! That said, I will never tank for a group. I do not enjoy being a group leader, and in fact often need to look at my map and like to carefully plan what I do when my character is in a dangerous situation that I am not very familiar with (read: most FP's and Ops).

 

Needless to say, I would make an awful tank for a group. It would probably be very stressful, with DPS leaping ahead and getting ticked that they died and healers getting ticked at me for not reigning in the group and everyone getting ticked at me for not explaining things. No thanks!

Frankly...I just find tanking extremely boring.

 

I like hit things hard, do damage, see big numbers, kill people, etc... damage just fits me perfectly, with healing a close 2nd. Also, I just like feeling like I'm being annoying. Tanks never really "feel annoying" to play against.

Hahah you know whats funny the people WHO DO play tanks they enjoy the mild power trip they get playing the class.

 

I have a screenshot somewhere but the text chat went like this:

 

It was foundry flashpoint, hk47 boss fight, wiped twice

I was the healer

 

Dps1: Tank can you put guard on me

Me(healer): Our tank's too weak to guard anyone

Tank: LOLOLOLOL

Tank: Healer's a ****, im out

*tank left the party*

(whisper)healerTOtank: recommended the tank not to queue as a tank until he was high enough level to equip gear dropped in the flashpoint

(whisper)TankTOhealer: Well this is person less from your pool of tank. Enjoy your longer queue times

(whisper)healerTOtank: *this player is ignoring you*

 

Group finder backfilled, found the replacement tank and we finished without any deaths. He was a bipolar anyway, moods swayed drastically and went through at least 3 different mood stances anytime something was typed in chat.

 

tl:dr

tank didn't like being reminded that he had the lowest HP in the flashpoint group

he rage ignored everybody in the party

Edited June 15, 2013 by Falensawino

I am having great fun leveling as a tank, and make a game of trying to keep mobs from running at my Companion. It is quite novel after playing almost all healers! That said, I will never tank for a group. I do not enjoy being a group leader, and in fact often need to look at my map and like to carefully plan what I do when my character is in a dangerous situation that I am not very familiar with (read: most FP's and Ops).

 

Needless to say, I would make an awful tank for a group. It would probably be very stressful, with DPS leaping ahead and getting ticked that they died and healers getting ticked at me for not reigning in the group and everyone getting ticked at me for not explaining things. No thanks!

 

Based on that, I think you'd make a great tank. I constantly plan pulls, sometimes while I'm running to a group (especially for impatient DPS) and sometimes I take a moment to look at my surroundings to make sure nothing unexpected happens.

 

DPS leaping ahead, itchy fingered Smugglers, and healers who tank is something we have to deal with. But if DPS wants to control the run, I am more than happy to oblige. Let the blame fall on him if we wipe lol. If all goes well, maybe I've learned something new.

(whisper)healerTOtank: recommended the tank not to queue as a tank until he was high enough level to equip gear dropped in the flashpoint

 

Oh, you don't know of the many stories within "the weird people you find in group finder" about classes listing there as what they should be ?

Pretty much nails it.

 

Oddly enough, ran Athiss HM earlier today and the healer was telling me how to tank, then tries to cc one of the Jedi as we approached the boss room, wiped us all.

 

In addition, most tanks I've run with are alpha's, including myself, which most people are not. You have to know how to lead and have thick skin. It's really that simple.

 

Yeah. I've never really had a super hard time holding aggro but I do notice that almost no DPS use threat drops. Most have a pretty obvious animation and for whatever reason, even though it costs no energy and is off GCD, no one can be bothered to use a threat drop. Or self cleanse. Or stop standing in the fire. But if there's a wipe it's because of the tank .

 

My favorite is the DPS trying to pull adds off you while you're trying to pick them up, refusing to use threat drops or cooldowns, then getting their butts handed to them and complaining about the tanking or healing.

Edited June 20, 2013 by dcgregorya

...

That said, I will never tank for a group. I do not enjoy being a group leader, and in fact often need to look at my map and like to carefully plan what I do when my character is in a dangerous situation that I am not very familiar with (read: most FP's and Ops).

 

Needless to say, I would make an awful tank for a group. It would probably be very stressful, with DPS leaping ahead and getting ticked that they died and healers getting ticked at me for not reigning in the group and everyone getting ticked at me for not explaining things. No thanks!

I'd have to agree with the earlier sentiment that the qualities you describe sound well suited to tanking. When it comes to DPS pulling groups, you can institute (and explicitly state, if necessary) a very simple rule: you pull it, you keep it. (To clarify, I mean specifically initiating a fight; being unable to hold aggro is a different matter.) Those who know the role they're playing won't ever come into conflict with the rule, and those who do come into conflict have no valid reason to complain to you.

When I dps, I try to pay some attention to other people's hp (particularly the tank), if I think the tank is in serious trouble I will pull the aggie from the tank briefly in order to give the healer time to heal the tank, and then proceed to dump threat using focused defense. This is actually harder to do now post 2.0, due to stat reductions, however that doesn't excuse the fact that DPS need to pay attention.

Paying attention, in general, is always a good thing. It might be worth noting that pulling aggro from the tank, on command, is usually the exclusive province of classes with tank trees. Pure DPS classes don't have taunts, and may have little to no healing mechanism. In those cases, no amount of attention paid to the tank's HP is actually going to contribute to keeping her (and the group) alive.

Recently I decided to play more on my tank thru GF thinking that people who join will be willing to let me roll for some items, so I could send them to my dps. This way we have 1 more tank instead dps in a q. but people say since I’m BiS72 I cannot roll. So almost every DPS in this game expect us tanks to tank for nothing. So now if I need something for my pet or alt I just go with my friend and 2 man HM. Its like yesterday there was run 16 man S&V so I did say I will roll need on drops and once I win something I will stop rolling, and what I get lots of grief about it:

- why you would roll you have gear

-you cannot roll need for pets or alts

Etc.

So I left as why I would spend 1 to 2 hours on ops where I gain nothing.

So they did get replacement low geared tank, which its fine since S&V sm can be tank by mara. But now they have a tank that will roll on all items does not matter how many he will win since his low geared. Its good for this tank I hope he did win a lot but if there wos no tank on fleet people would prefer to wait for hours then give 1 item for tanking.

I did have a chat with few of my friends tanks and they do not join pug or gf as they will never be let to roll on some itemaes. so why do it ?

 

People need to understand that tanks will gear up very fast and then there is nothing for them to gain in pug or GF so they don’t do it. But if people would let them roll they would play more on their tanks as then they could gear up there alts with them. And its not like you loosing something he still need to rolled higher then you plus if you take all this well geared tanks out of GF you have low geared tanks and they will roll anyway.

People need to understand that tanks will gear up very fast

 

Wait what? Tanks will end up getting gear *slower* than either of the other roles because tanks can only use *tank gear* whereas a majority of DPS and healer gear is at least *somewhat* interchangeable. I've listed the probabilities for drops useful for tanks compared to drops useful for DPS/heals a *number* of times and DPS/heals have more than *twice* the chance of something useful dropping for them *even accounting for the fact that there are more of them to roll against it*.

 

I'll agree that there's no real point in running FPs or Ops that you overgear since people don't want you rolling on gear for alts or comps (which, imo, is a legitimate concern; they're trying to gear up the character that's *actually running the content*; you're trying to give it to an NPC or a character you don't care enough about to play), but that's the same for *everyone that overgears content*. If would be like a DPS wanting to take tank gear from you while you're leveling up to give to *his* tank comp or alt. Just accept the fact that, once you're geared, there's no real gear incentive to continue running old content (beyond the commendations, which, if you're full up, means you won't need even those).

Wait what? Tanks will end up getting gear *slower* than either of the other roles because tanks can only use *tank gear* whereas a majority of DPS and healer gear is at least *somewhat* interchangeable. I've listed the probabilities for drops useful for tanks compared to drops useful for DPS/heals a *number* of times and DPS/heals have more than *twice* the chance of something useful dropping for them *even accounting for the fact that there are more of them to roll against it*.

 

I'll agree that there's no real point in running FPs or Ops that you overgear since people don't want you rolling on gear for alts or comps (which, imo, is a legitimate concern; they're trying to gear up the character that's *actually running the content*; you're trying to give it to an NPC or a character you don't care enough about to play), but that's the same for *everyone that overgears content*. If would be like a DPS wanting to take tank gear from you while you're leveling up to give to *his* tank comp or alt. Just accept the fact that, once you're geared, there's no real gear incentive to continue running old content (beyond the commendations, which, if you're full up, means you won't need even those).

 

I think he was trying to make the point that tanks had the opportunity to gear up faster because of the high demand for them. ie tanks could pretty much do HM's back-to-back if they wanted to because the queue times are practically instant at any given time vs a dps being lucky if they could get 3 HM's done in a day. Obviously this only refers to pugging and not guild runs.

 

Of course like you said in your post, the gear drop for tanks are exponentially lower than the dps/healing classes because of the difference in stats for tanking

Just wondering why there are so few tanks in the que ?

 

People don't like to take responsibility even though a dd has the same responsibility as anyone else in the group. Tanking in SWTOR is really easy and I'm enjoying playing one of my tanks but there are so many other classes to be played... that's why I haven't been tanking operations since... almost a year but did prior to this every operation my previous guild went to.

I think a big problem is that tanks need to know the instance somewhat. That creates a large barrier which discourages new players from tanking.

Tanking is by far my preferred role for a number of reasons:

 

1.)The main reason is the title of this post; no one seems to play them. This makes a good tank sought after (in oppose to having to wade through mountains of dps and people who think they can heal effectively)

 

2.) To me personally, having a huge hp bar (dwarfing others) and high defence stats is just as satisfying, if not more so, than high surge/crit for the occasionally high hit that (in PVE especially) no one pays huge amount of notice to.

 

And lastly...

 

3.) At no point do i feel more god like than when im charging into a huge camp of mobs, or one large one which ever you prefer, and taking hits like a mad man. Yes you can play a sin for example who hits large numbers, but whats the fun when you know if you get aggro for just one second you'll be running away with your tail between your legs.

 

In my opinion the issue for tanks is PVP. In my experience with MMO's (which is not extremely vast i will grant you) tanking has to be about a number of things such as HP, Defence stats, Self healing abilities, Gear, buffs...However in SWTOR i always get the feeling that unless you have that life saving defensive CD up or you have a healer in your pocket, you are going to die to skilled dps'ers or even 2-3 rubbish ones.

 

Of course this isn't always the case but i feel there is too little character customisation in SWTOR (in terms of abilities) for there not to be something else to fall back on.

 

This all said i love tanking and always will so there's always going to be one guy playing tank no matter how hard it is

After having tanked in a great many MMOs, I'll give you my personal reasons why I don't tank in SWTOR (in fact it dovetails with "why I don't even do group content").

 

Simply put - it's stressful and thankless. Being a tank requires more effort than anything else; and if you screw up, it's entirely probable the team will wipe, blame you, and quit. Worse, there's always "that one guy" who will complain *even if the run is going smoothly*.

 

To top it off, it's difficult to get a tank off the ground and get the necessary experience* because people have this bizarre concept that everyone should know every dungeon perfectly the first time. Maybe that's not the case in TOR, but in other games I've played that's absolutely how it is - you go in and you're expected to already know what you're doing 100% perfectly... even if it's the very first dungeon in the game and you're brand new to the game. That's bad enough for DPS players, but for a tank it's absolutely nervewracking.

 

Worse - if you decide to wait it out and level up to cap before doing dungeons, you'll generally get your tail kicked horribly trying to figure out what you're doing as (usually) the leveling process doesn't really at all prepare you for the world of end game tanking.

 

The point of all this is simple - MMO players in general need to be nicer to their groupmates, especially new tanks.

That's not the only reason of course; I could go on and on about how group content in most games is pretty bland and that too keeps a lot of veteran tanks from bothering to tank in newer games. Still, I feel that's the biggest aspect of it - almost no one wants to be insulted or put in the hot seat, and yet that's generally the lot of an MMO tank.

 

*As a player, not to level up.