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Jedi Shadow, Sith Assassin needs a big nerf soon.


bahugboto

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Kinetic ward spammable every 12 sec with 8 wards unlikely to be struck off in normal pvp situations. one of the highest force mitigation of any class. 3 additional proc defensive abilities including a permanent heal ability.

 

Not only that, their spamming of telekinetic throws/Lightnings have the ability to heal themselves, and slowing down their foes, adding to insane survivability along with massive dps and with Harnessed shadow up, it cannot be interrupted(another overpowered feature to a completely overpowered ability). They can stealth when needed, and can sprint when needed and kite when needed adding to survivability and an element of surprise. Jedi Shadows seems to be totally imbalanced, especially in PVP and I invite anyone of you who denies this to offer up a good counter to my arguments. Anyone who agrees please chime in as well. Jedi Shadow has too many useful utilities for PVP including with PULL, they have just about everything to counter everything on top of being the best pure tank in the game and second best self healer after healer classes, at least where PVP is concerned. Something seems to be horribly off with this picture.

 

A Jedi Shadow being able to out-tank, outrun, out stealth, out dps, out kite and able to out CCs and out self heals, on an above average level in the game. There's just seem to be no buffs that could bring any classes on par with a Shadow specced for PVP without breaking the game mechanics so the only option out it seems is to nerf Shadows -

 

A class that will be able to consistently get 300K+ dmg, and 100K+ healing in warzone matches along with being able to sprint stealth, pull, and tank like a madman, and score 55-0 in kills ratio very often, something is very very wrong with the balance here- guys - discuss with civility, any blatant fanboyism post or trolling, or off topic post will be reported.

 

For more reference of how overpowered a Shadow/Assassin could be in PVP, please visit this thread:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=336999

Edited by bahugboto
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Shadows are vastly superior to guardians but that doesn't mean they are overpowered. Guardians need plenty of help. Shadows are fine where they are.

 

second best consistent Dps, Best and easily executable nukes(hard to miss), best tanks and on top of that, being able to stealth and run, i think it's overpowered, and yes Guardians are severely underpowered and about the most useless and one dimensional class in Pvp.

Edited by bahugboto
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I'm a ---- and I suck at ----. I must be doing something wrong. Please don't nerf me.

 

you can replace shadow and pvp with anything, whatever class someone is they always feel inferior to others when they get beat

 

im a bounty hunter and i feel weak at ...

im a sith warrior and i feel weak at ...

im a sith inquisitor and i feel weak at ...

im an imperial agent and i feel weak at ...

im a trooper and i feel weak at ...

im a jedi knight and i feel weak at ...

im a jedi consular and i feel weak at ...

im a smuggler and i feel weak at ...

 

for me its whatever class i am is too weak, whatever class killed me is too strong

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I have two chars one geared in BM, the other in Champion.Centurion working towards BM, and thousands of pvp experience and consistently clocking 9-12 medals(11-14 medals before the frozenshock exploit was fixed) even as a gimped Guardian should i choose to focus on medal hunting, and it's not just me who understood this severe imbalance between classes, it's almost every other top pvp'ers i know acknowledged this, so let's open up some serious discussion here instead. Edited by Meluna
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BioWare I keep getting owned at lvl 12 against lvl 49s in warzones. Nerf please and give me my BM gear in a single bag with a golden ribbon on it too. Also I want a pony. A rainbow pony with magical sparkle powers.

 

This game is unacceptable without magical sparkle ponies. And shave as many ewoks as you can contests.

 

I read that in Morgan Freeman's voice.

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They are overpowered in PVP, as well as being the best tank class in PVP by far(absurd) with their avoidance, and highest consistent damage dealers, they can stealth and have the best CCs. Shadows/*** are unbeatable in 1 on 1 duels as well, they can out tank a fully speced tanking guardian and still out dps them by a factor of 2 in PVP. This is a universal complain among most pvp veterans. It's about time that the class system gets a huge re-balancing. Guardians/Jugs are underpowered and not filling the role they are supposed to - as tanks, and anything other than pure focus/rage build is useless in PVP atm, shadow/*** are disgustingly overpowered and need a big nerf, it is inevitable, the sooner it comes the better, this imbalance have gone on for far too long.

 

I been screaming Buff JKG/SWJ for a long time now, they are lacking bad.

As far as nerfing Shadow/Assassins they are fine IMO they just need to buff Knights up to the level of Shadows & Troopers as far as tanking goes.

 

I will tell you what the problem is with JKG/SWJ tanks, its that they have NO personal healing, I have a 50 Trooper tank and a 41 Shadow tank and the self healing is what makes us, I think Bioware thought because they wear heavy armor and can leap and all the good stuff that they would be fine but they are not, they are only fine with a healer baby sitting them, but the same goes for the Shadow & Trooper.

 

A simple buff/fix would be to have Enure not lose the health gained after the effect is gone though the Inner Peace talent in the tanking tree but also increase the cooldown for taking that talent to 2 mins so it matches the Troopers Adernaline Rush cooldown of 2 mins via tanking tree.

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second best consistent Dps, Best and easily executable nukes(hard to miss), best tanks and on top of that, being able to stealth, i think it's overpowered, and yes Guardians are severely underpowered and about the most useless and one dimensional class in Pvp.

They get resisted so it makes up for misses.

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Atleast be honest and say Tank shadows/assassins, infiltration/deception on the other hand could use a big buff ^.-

 

The tank tree does better damage than the dps tree so obviously something isn't right lul

Single target, No

Aoe, Yes

 

People need to understand when they see 500k+ damage done in a WZ that is all AOE, remove all AOE from a WZ and it will be a different story, don't let the number fool you like it does 90% of all the noobs, I'm not calling you a noob so please don't take it the wrong way.

Edited by Nijraw
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I been screaming Buff JKG/SWJ for a long time now, they are lacking bad.

As far as nerfing Shadow/Assassins they are fine IMO they just need to buff Knights up to the level of Shadows & Troopers as far as tanking goes.

 

I will tell you what the problem is with JKG/SWJ tanks, its that they have NO personal healing, I have a 50 Trooper tank and a 41 Shadow tank and the self healing is what makes us, I think Bioware thought because they wear heavy armor and can leap and all the good stuff that they would be fine but they are not, they are only fine with a healer baby sitting them, but the same goes for the Shadow & Trooper.

 

A simple buff/fix would be to have Enure not lose the health gained after the effect is gone though the Inner Peace talent in the tanking tree but also increase the cooldown for taking that talent to 2 mins so it matches the Troopers Adernaline Rush cooldown of 2 mins via tanking tree.

 

Some good points you added here, if they are going to change enure into permanent heal, maybe make it heal for less like 25% of max health and make it so that you can earn medals from healing with enure but make it so that only your max health is normalized after the enure ends but not minimum health...that way you will see Guardians able to charge into battle with enure to utilize the extra hp, or simply heal themselves in the midst of battle but imo, guardian abilities require some major revamping still, because a hybrid guardian can tank as well and dps better than a pure tank guardian in PVP, wtih shields basically pointless atm.

 

They could also allow a guardian to be able to shield attacks from force powers as well, not just physical attacks through some ability modified in the tanking tree.

 

I like the suggestion of lowering the guardian ability to proc shields and wards to 2 min from 3, that will give the tank or hybrid spec a real survivability purpose.

 

While a focus build Guardian can do reasonably well in group pvp, they are so one dimensional and predictable that they are pretty much squishy food to anyone who knows how to deal with them, but that's still the only viable option for Guardians gimped as they are in PVP.

 

A major upgrade to the survivability of a guardian will give a choice for players who want to equip themselves with end game tank items or dps items. A tank Guardian who have no burst damage so to speak of, should be offsetted by them being the hardest class to take down of all. Since they really can't kill anyone and their only useful existence is guarding, taunting, annoying opposing healers with CCs and mosquito bites, and kill stealing, they should also be a pain in the *** to take down by any one character to make up for this. Their tanking ability should be above that of a power-tech for their gimpiness in dps and Aoe.

 

These are some good and realistic suggestions that the developers should take note of.

Edited by bahugboto
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Haha, I'm so happy that the Shadow got its very first nerf post. Deservedly or not.

 

hehe I know what you mean. I do my daily PvP quests with my 50 juggernaut, that's all and I am a bit sick of this class with very cool moves, but feeling unfinished in skilltree and skillsystem.

 

My lvl 35 Sith Sorcerer is rising, because I want to leave my whiny juggernaut board, I so badly want to belong to the "nerf-post-crew" :-)

Edited by Midichlorien
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Some good points you added here, if they are going to change enure into permanent heal, maybe make it heal for less like 25% of max health and make it so that you can earn medals from healing with enure but make it so that only your max health is normalized after the enure ends but not minimum health...that way you will see Guardians able to charge into battle with enure to utilize the extra hp, or simply heal themselves in the midst of battle but imo, guardian abilities require some major revamping still, because a hybrid guardian can tank as well and dps better than a pure tank guardian in PVP, wtih shields basically pointless atm.

 

They could also allow a guardian to be able to shield attacks from force powers as well, not just physical attacks through some ability modified in the tanking tree.

 

I like the suggestion of lowering the guardian ability to proc shields and wards to 2 min from 3, that will give the tank or hybrid spec a real survivability purpose.

 

While a focus build Guardian can do reasonably well in group pvp, they are so one dimensional and predictable that they are pretty much squishy food to anyone who knows how to deal with them, but that's still the only viable option for Guardians gimped as they are in PVP.

 

A major upgrade to the survivability of a guardian will give a choice for players who want to equip themselves with end game tank items or dps items. A tank Guardian who have no burst damage so to speak of, should be offsetted by them being the hardest class to take down of all. Since they really can't kill anyone and their only useful existence is guarding, taunting, annoying opposing healers with CCs and mosquito bites, and kill stealing, they should also be a pain in the *** to take down by any one character to make up for this. Their tanking ability should be above that of a power-tech for their gimpiness in dps and Aoe.

 

These are some good and realistic suggestions that the developers should take note of.

 

The defensive cooldowns deserve a 3 min CD; Juggernauts have the most and the strongest defensive cooldowns in the game. 3 mins is fine, lower would be OP in both PvP and PvE.

 

Having a 25% heal is OP especially when combined with a HP increase and the option of chain-potting. Other tank heals are incremental, 10% at most or spread over a HoT/Cast.

 

Allowing Juggernauts to shield Force and Tech attacks has a serve impact on PvE, and not only that it's a fundamental change to core shielding mechanics for all classes. On the flipside; Shadows/Tankasins cannot shield them either, have similar DR against Force/Tech. Juggernauts are no worse off than Assassins in this regard, so the suggestion makes absolutely no sense. At all. Secondly tanks rarely use Shields in PvP; most Darkness assassin run with a focus equiped as shields do very little.

 

Juggernaut survival is fine. Juggernaut mobility is fine. Juggernaut board control is powerful. Juggernaut damage is questionable.

 

You're making an awful lot of suggestions without actually understanding how any of these core mechanics work or the impact on the wider game.

 

Finally; PvP is a team game. If you're ramboing trying to max out medals and ignoring the strengths of your class than more fool you. Juggernauts are formidable PvE tanks and exceptional PvP play makers... a little damage buff is fair, god like survival through your proposed changes less so.

 

Posts like this reaffirm my belief that Warriors/Knights are this game's mage... moan moan moan.

Edited by Parthis
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The defensive cooldowns deserve a 3 min CD; Juggernauts have the most and the strongest defensive cooldowns in the game. 3 mins is fine, lower would be OP in both PvP and PvE.

 

Having a 25% heal is OP especially when combined with a HP increase and the option of chain-potting. Other tank heals are incremental, 10% at most or spread over a HoT/Cast.

 

Allowing Juggernauts to shield Force and Tech attacks has a serve impact on PvE, and not only that it's a fundamental change to core shielding mechanics for all classes. On the flipside; Shadows/Tankasins cannot shield them either, have similar DR against Force/Tech. Juggernauts are no worse off than Assassins in this regard, so the suggestion makes absolutely no sense. At all. Secondly tanks rarely use Shields in PvP; most Darkness assassin run with a focus equiped as shields do very little.

 

Juggernaut survival is fine. Juggernaut mobility is fine. Juggernaut board control is powerful. Juggernaut damage is questionable.

 

You're making an awful lot of suggestions without actually understanding how any of these core mechanics work or the impact on the wider game.

 

Finally; PvP is a team game. If you're ramboing trying to max out medals and ignoring the strengths of your class than more fool you. Juggernauts are formidable PvE tanks and exceptional PvP play makers... a little damage buff is fair, god like survival through your proposed changes less so.

 

Posts like this reaffirm my belief that Warriors/Knights are this game's mage... moan moan moan.

 

This is not moaning most top Guardian pvp'ers including Nian who is now playing an assassin has confirmed that Jugs and Guardians are underpowered. Jugs are INFERIOR tanker to Powertech and Shadow tanks with inferior DPS, and even if spec to dps(though good in warzones) they are inferior in DPS to a marauder or a sin overall, especially inferior when the opponent you go up against know what they are doing to avoid your one trick pony smash.

 

So my proposal is to upgrade the tanking spec so the Jugs can actually TANK, because with Vigilance spec does pretty ho hum damage, in rage or focus spec, they do some burst damage that are good in group PVP but easily defeatable at highly skilled pvp matches, and tanks are worthless apart from PVE where you can pull agro on a mob.

 

You have obviously no idea what you are talking about when it comes to playing a guardian, what is proposed here makes sense, because a tank guardian have to be an absolute beast at tanking since it's an absolute wuss at DPS, cutting enure down from 30% to 25% but making the heal permanent based on max HP is one idea to make a Tank Guardian tankable and making endurance + defense gears + Shields more feasible for those who choose the tanking spec. Also fulfilling it's support role more ably without being squishy.

 

You obviously have never played a guardian or jug and is speaking outta your ***, from the way you talk you have no idea what you are saying and have never played a Guardian/Jug in end game pvp before, please go take your Assassin raging somewhere else, i am sorry but Assassin still should be staring down the nerf bat along with a powertech, either that or some serious class re-balancing issues have to be looked at and have to be done ASAP.

Edited by bahugboto
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Atleast be honest and say Tank shadows/assassins, infiltration/deception on the other hand could use a big buff ^.-

 

The tank tree does better damage than the dps tree so obviously something isn't right lul

 

If you are playing assassin and able to damage better as a Darkness spec vs a madness or deception spec; you must not be very good at the dps trees.

 

At any rate, I do find deception on the weak end; but that is all opinion; just like I find operatives, marauders and juggernuts on the weak end as well. That has nothing to do with tank assassins though. Nor does what someone might be able to do with a hybrid build.

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People are always complaining that the consular and inquisitor acs are overpowered but they always forget that we wear the flimsiest armour in the game. If we can't kill you in the 1st 3 seconds of combat then we're done for. Overpowered offence is our only hope due to our underpowered defence.
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its completely true that the assassin tank spec is now so riduclous and it needs attention to be put into it. But i feel the nerfs should stop.

 

lets put everything else into fair ground with the sin tanks rather than nerfing some class to the ground everytime BW fails to make class balance.

 

but for those who dont know, heres the new sin tank for ya.

 

1) Survivablity up the ***. A Better tank than guardian by far IN LIGHT ARMOR. no ****s were given that day at BW.

 

2) dps that matches its deception tree with the survivablity of a tank. It has enough dps to be considered a damager dealer... but tanks better than a guardian. Huh?

 

and finally... the icing on the cake of all broken classes.

 

3) Access to some of the most devasting CC's in the game, taken straight out the sorc handbook.

 

force speed. yup.

aoe knockback. yup.

force stun. yup.

U name the CC and the shadow probably has it, due to it being the blood brother of the currently most OP(that means over powered and overpopulated) class in the game...

 

The sith inquistor (sorc)

 

So basically if u choose sith inquistor/consular at the character creation selection screen. You are now guaranteed the ability to **** all in pvp. skill not included.

 

EDIT: to all the people who say the balance is light armor. Make the character yourself and try it out. I cant remember the last time a guy in cloth and fabric took less damage than a fully geared tank..... and then turned around and DID more dmg too. Light armor is no restriction. they dont die any quicker. if ur a shadow in light armor, than your a tank who wont die for his life. If your a sorc in light armor, than u have a bubble thats always ready to go.

 

For light armor... id say they have the best survivability in the game thanks to all the utility they've been given. I mean you dont see scoundrels/operatives outlasting sorcs in pvp do you?

Edited by kazaku
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