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Jedi Shadow, Sith Assassin needs a big nerf soon.


bahugboto

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They are the kings of hutball,and since that is a majority of pvp on a lot of servers they feel broken.

 

I don't even know if thats true. Sage and sorcerers really make those teams in hutt Ball with all their speed and friendly pull. Not complaining, I'm just saying.

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I don't even know if thats true. Sage and sorcerers really make those teams in hutt Ball with all their speed and friendly pull. Not complaining, I'm just saying.

 

I agree. Most teams will ignore everyone but the ball carrier. Sage runs close to the goal, ball carrier gets remotely close, pull, score.

 

Side note: I hate Hut Ball. Nothing against the actual game but every match I've joined I've had teams full of DPS and tanks and like 1 healer class who doesn't heal vs an army of Sages (it feels like). I've yet to win a hutball match and I've only played 1 game (out of at lest 30) where someone on my team has scored.

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There's these cool new things called healers. They make our DPS look like ****. Oh, and, at endgame, I don't think they're the best. I usually have trouble vs heavy armor and sorcerers/sages and healy scoundrels. Damn crybabies. The one stealth-emphasized class gets whined about because kids' eyes don't work.
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ITS OVER.......test realm notes are in.

 

Assassin

 

Mass Mind Control: Updated this tooltip to correctly state that the ability does not break Stealth. The ability's functionality has not changed.

 

Madness (Assassin)

 

Raze's activation effects are now more visible.

 

The Force in Balance no longer heals the caster if no targets are hit.

 

 

This is from the 1.2 patch notes awwww we didn't even get a point refund.

 

Pvp is not about 1 vs 1 if you fight a tank alone you will die. Bioware knows whats up baby.

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Assassins are very good at destroying Caster classes, however a well played maurader, and powertech can typically drop an Assassin. The key is well played, some of the other classes have much higher skill caps, and until this game starts getting into fully ranked matches your not going to see to much of those people. Heck, even well played snipers can kill an Assassin. Tank Spec does have a lot of utility but its peoples lack of knowledge of how to counter Asassins that tend to be more the issue. 90 percent of the time all I typically see is random players just trying to drop their biggest burst and stand there trying to go toe to toe out dpsing an Assassin.
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Originally Posted by bahugboto

Kinetic ward spammable every 12 sec with 8 wards unlikely to be struck off in normal pvp situations.

 

This has to be the most funny thread in this forum. Do you even understand what you are talking about? *laugh*

Yes it is very unlikely that it is 'struck off' because 50% or so of player abilities just ignore the whole mechanic which makes it op because it is ignore and therefor does nothing? Awesome troll skills!

 

Also Shadow mean mitigation is only on par with other tank if you have this up. It is even used in all calculations I seen as Shadows normal mitigation and not as a cd ability or anything even though you have to spend force on it and have to use it.

 

Yes, that has to be the most ridiculous thing he said, which is quite an accomplishment given the nature of his thesis and the other inaccuracies he spouts.

 

Kinetic Ward increases shield chance and removes one charge each time an attack is shielded. If an attack does not remove a Kinetic Ward, it means the attack went through unshielded. That means the attack completely bypassed the mechanic, and if it bypassed the mechanic, the attack went through unmitigated by the shield. So basically, he is arguing that the ability is OP because it is unlikely that it will do anything to reduce damage to the Shadow.

 

Commenting further on this convoluted logic would only cheapen the humor it provides.

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lolol

 

Funny how Shadow/Sins go untouched while defense and def/vig hybrid Guardians/Juggs were actually NERFED with undocumented changes on test. It really is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen a development MMO team do.

 

As far as any hybrid spec goes, it should be common knowledge by now that they have stated, as a design philosopy, that hybrid builds will be possible, but they should never be better than a 31 point build.

 

To that end, they have already nerfed Shadow hybrids in a previous patch by bumping the costs of stance changes to cost 100 Force. That basically means that you have to have a full force bar to make the change stances and you will be out of Force once you do.

 

Expect that all hybrid builds will be nerfed if they are performing better than a pure build.

Edited by Sotaudi
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Against sub-humans I too can get big numbers. :rolleyes:

 

Only if you're a shadow tank though.

 

Big numbers against a bad ops is one thing, Shadow Tanks are a completely broken other thing. And there are plenty of pics around of good Shadow tanks putting up 500-600kdmg, 100-200k protection and 100k healing against decent players.

 

It's really dumb how broken they are. Bioware has no idea how to balance classes.

Edited by TheLakers
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  • 2 weeks later...

***!? I'm a lvl 48 sin and i suck at pvp. i mean there are days where i actually play hard and dominate at pvp, but that is only because i know how to play smart and use my abilities right. You must remember that sins/shadows use light armor and even in tanking stance (i believe it gives a 150% armor rating) if you do the math a jug/guardian has a much higher armor rate. As for the high amounts of damage, i play a dps sin and the dps tree is really good i get 3k-4k damage pve with one of my good abilities, and if i just go tank stance then i raise my armor that's probably what the shadow/sins you are fighting do, go up a dps tree but use a tank stance.

Another thing, you never told us what lvl you were or what class, so that might factor in as well as how much skill you have. This game relays on your ability to use the right moves at the right times, so say you are using an interrupt on an useless ability, and then the sin/shadow uses a powerful ability while your interrupt is cooling down. You can't just go nerfing him/her because of that incident, it was your fault for using the interrupt on the useless ability in the first place (I use this as an example i did not mean to insult you idk if you used an interrupt on a useless ability).

If you play a sin/shadow you will see that its not an overpowered class, because it totally relies on your tactics and gameplay (i.e the use of stealth to leave a situation where you will almost die is not a bad thing. if you had that ability you would use it too). the surprise attack maneuvers is the only way a sin/shadow can start a fight as well as other dps/tanks can, and the fact that you cant use stealth in combat and the ability to stealth outta combat has a two minute cool down shows how much stealth can actually do for you. The sin/shadow can't really ranged dps since they have like 3 or 4 crappy ranged abilities and most of their heavy hitters require the sin/shadow to go melee proves that fact.

All I'm saying is the assassin/shadow advanced classes shouldn't be nerfed because of negative stereotypes like this. Most people in warzones think i can tank/dps really well and the opposite side always swarms on me and kills me, which is really irritating because i get like 2-3 medals per warzone and other classes usually get like 6+ medals just because every time i leave base without stealth i get swarmed/ No the assassin/shadow is not overpowered just because one or two high leveled well geared assassins/shadows beat you in pvp and if you still think they are overpowered play a sin/shadow and see for yourself, they are just as strong as every other class, it only depends how well you can play with them.

__________________________________________________________________________

Vader-" Luke... I AM YOUR FATHER!"

Luke-" the ****? where is my child support bit**! i lived in a desert for 18 F###ing years with a pedophilistic old man, a retarded uncle and a useless aunt? and now you tell your my father, AFTER YOU CUT OF MY *********** HAND!?"

Vader-"..."

Luke-"..."

Vader-"wanna go get a ice-cream or something?"

Luke-"sure why not"

Edited by EndeonInfurio
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I play as an assassin mainly and i feel that it can be both. I can take down 2-man groups in pvp usually. I notice in mobs I feel a bit weak with the fact that most abilities are 10m or less range which is irritating against ranged people that keep knocking you back or stunning you. I've heard that they plan to buff it up in 1.2 and plan do nerf the sorceror.

 

I also have a ,friend lvl 50 assassin, in my guild that does 1v2 duels all the time where he goes against another person with their companion. He wins almost every time with less than 30% hp lost. He is extremely overpowered like you said. However not all builds are as powerful and pve builds can make the assassin bad in pvp.

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I have a level 48 assassin now so; not sure how it plays out in 50 but I will say it seems to depend on what the classes are made up of that my assassin is going against; not to mention if I am getting healed by a well hidden teammate; I will seem god like. I will say that coming nerfs to some other classes just might make the OPness a reality if it happens to be nerfing the classes that do great "yellow" damage against us; as we seem to have a huge resistance to "white" damage.

 

 

I think that is an underlying problem in this game; TBH. Even though it isn't really yellow vs white but my point is the different type of damage out there is unbalanced between the types. The "yellow" or force/tech type damages get away with bypassing too much while the "white" ranged/melee or whatever it is weapon damage gets mitigated too much. Fix that and you fix assassin without nerfing. Fix that; and I imagine other pending nerfs could have been avoided. Fix that and watch snipers smile.

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So yesterday, I got wtfpwned by slingers over and over again. 2 of them killed me so fast I couldn't get to them before I died. I am Pyro PT, and so Snipers need a nerf. Slingers and snipers need more nerfs, I mean they have too many stuns and cc's and they kill me too fast.

 

 

I should be able to own everything. [/sarcasm ended]

 

 

If you can't kill a shadow tank, than you are playing poorly. They are a little tough to kill at times, but they do jack in terms of dps comparable to other classes. I can burn one down as long as he doesn't have that craptastic pocket healer. His heals makeup for the fact that his defensive cooldown outside of Force shroud sucks.

 

Why is a Jugg worried about the fact that he can slow you down? You realize you want to be on him, and you can jump to him. You do realize that the reason the Darkness/Kinetic tanks usually lead in damage is because their ward is an AOE. They don't hit hard, they just don't die with a decent healer on them. Then again, neither should any jugg. I don't know how many times, I have ran into a Knight/Sage team, and been steamrolled without taking more than half the health off the Sage.

 

TLDR: I get steamrolled by Snipers so they need another massive nerf. I can eat Sins for lunch so they are underpowered. If you get steamrolled by a Sin/Shadow, it most likely wasn't a tank spec.

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  • 1 month later...
Kinetic ward spammable every 12 sec with 8 wards unlikely to be struck off in normal pvp situations. one of the highest force mitigation of any class. 3 additional proc defensive abilities including a permanent heal ability.

 

Not only that, their spamming of telekinetic throws/Lightnings have the ability to heal themselves, and slowing down their foes, adding to insane survivability along with massive dps and with Harnessed shadow up, it cannot be interrupted(another overpowered feature to a completely overpowered ability). They can stealth when needed, and can sprint when needed and kite when needed adding to survivability and an element of surprise. Jedi Shadows seems to be totally imbalanced, especially in PVP and I invite anyone of you who denies this to offer up a good counter to my arguments. Anyone who agrees please chime in as well. Jedi Shadow has too many useful utilities for PVP including with PULL, they have just about everything to counter everything on top of being the best pure tank in the game and second best self healer after healer classes, at least where PVP is concerned. Something seems to be horribly off with this picture.

 

A Jedi Shadow being able to out-tank, outrun, out stealth, out dps, out kite and able to out CCs and out self heals, on an above average level in the game. There's just seem to be no buffs that could bring any classes on par with a Shadow specced for PVP without breaking the game mechanics so the only option out it seems is to nerf Shadows -

 

A class that will be able to consistently get 300K+ dmg, and 100K+ healing in warzone matches along with being able to sprint stealth, pull, and tank like a madman, and score 55-0 in kills ratio very often, something is very very wrong with the balance here- guys - discuss with civility, any blatant fanboyism post or trolling, or off topic post will be reported.

 

For more reference of how overpowered a Shadow/Assassin could be in PVP, please visit this thread:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=336999

 

Good post, and very valid points.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how much flak marras and sents are taking lately when tank spec shadows/sins have been in need of a nerf for months.

 

What is even more mind blowing is how the devs didn't stop to think about the pvp balance issues that would come from giving a tank spec, good dps, self healing, stealth, good cc and cc counters, and the ability to strip negative effects + make themselves immune to force and tech skills every 45 seconds.

 

Thing is though, to avoid destroying the tank spec for Sins/Shadows, it's going to have to be more a case of providing some other buffs to other classes to bring them up to speed.

 

One thing that should be done imo is to give ALL the tank specs, be they Jugger/Guard, Vangaurd / PT the 50% self heal chance from attacks. Either that or simply remove it from the tank stance for Shadows/Sins, because having that only apply to Sins and Shadows is just plain stupid. The other main issue that will need to be dealt with is the high dps they put out, but again an issue that will need to be handled the right way to avoid screwing the class.

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Good post, and very valid points.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how much flak marras and sents are taking lately when tank spec shadows/sins have been in need of a nerf for months.

 

What is even more mind blowing is how the devs didn't stop to think about the pvp balance issues that would come from giving a tank spec, good dps, self healing, stealth, good cc and cc counters, and the ability to strip negative effects + make themselves immune to force and tech skills every 45 seconds.

 

Thing is though, to avoid destroying the tank spec for Sins/Shadows, it's going to have to be more a case of providing some other buffs to other classes to bring them up to speed.

 

One thing that should be done imo is to give ALL the tank specs, be they Jugger/Guard, Vangaurd / PT the 50% self heal chance from attacks. Either that or simply remove it from the tank stance for Shadows/Sins, because having that only apply to Sins and Shadows is just plain stupid. The other main issue that will need to be dealt with is the high dps they put out, but again an issue that will need to be handled the right way to avoid screwing the class.

 

This has to be the worse solution I have heard yet. The other tanks are tanking fine, IMO. It would be overkill and would then also start to infringe on the damage output of damage classes.

 

If anything needs to be done, it has to be something to reduce the damage output of tank sins. They are in line as far as actual tanking IMO.

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In my opinion there are only one real issue with Shadow/Assassin Tanks in PvP that can be remotely valid.

 

Shadows/Assassins that people are complaining about are usually those in dps gear but are in the tank spec. The problem here is somewhat tied into the fact that they have nearly as much damage mitigation as a tank geared shadow/assassin would (Again, because their main mitigation is through self healing) but can now do decent enough damage to actually be a threat.

 

That's how a non shadow/assassin may see it. As a shadow player myself (since beta and not FOTM thanks) the real problem is that defense stats simply are not viable enough in the eyes of most players, so they naturally change their gear priority to something they feel is more effective. (So few player abilities are affected by defensive stats that unless you are facing a select few specs in this game, you are really wasting stats on your gear.)

 

Complaining about Kinetic/Dark ward makes me tilt my head because it only affects attacks that can be shielded. Taking it away would pretty much ruin their ability to tank in most PvE situations where the ability does make a considerable difference. (Most attacks in PvP are not shieldable...not the case in PvE) The ability also is a severe weakness when it comes to PvE tanking against multiple opponents. (Those charges drop FAST and that is when things really hurt.)

 

Singling them out because their class ability to mitigate damage through self healing does not solve anything. It is pretty much the only valid damage mitigation in the PvP scene. >_<

 

Fixing how those defensive stats interact with PLAYER damage AND finding a way to keep tank spec'd shadows/assassins from using dps mods/gear is the way to fix the problem. (I have not seen a real solution to this yet, but I think about it every now and then.) In my opinion, "fixing" the problem by changing the class breaks the other half of the game (which the OP largely ignored in his post) would be the wrong way to do things.

 

In my opinion it would be wiser to focus on the real problem so that we may well find the real solution.

 

Just some thoughts, forgive the rambling in there please.

 

(For the record, I am PvE focused but do dabble in PvP when friends are wanting to play a few matches.)

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This has to be the worse solution I have heard yet. The other tanks are tanking fine, IMO. It would be overkill and would then also start to infringe on the damage output of damage classes.

 

If anything needs to be done, it has to be something to reduce the damage output of tank sins. They are in line as far as actual tanking IMO.

 

No more overkill than letting Tank sins/shadows keep the 50% self heal proc on top of the ones that come from skill tree point sinks. It's not needed for them, so it should either be removed ot given to all tanks, as well as doing something about tank spec sin/shadow high dps.

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