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What's so special about Humans in the Sith Empire? (Minor Spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
What's so special about Humans in the Sith Empire? (Minor Spoilers)

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
11.19.2013 , 03:06 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Stinghen View Post
but I suspect that, given Marr's more practical approach to the whole matter of aliens, the Dark Council may have been made to agree due to his influence.
They didnt agree, they were all against it and Marr was scared of being overthrown to the nature of suggesting Karrid to promotion.

Stinghen's Avatar


Stinghen
11.19.2013 , 04:58 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
They didnt agree, they were all against it and Marr was scared of being overthrown to the nature of suggesting Karrid to promotion.
That it may be, but in the end Karrid killed Gravus and thus all the other council members backed her up for the seat on the Sphere of Technology.

Baalzie's Avatar


Baalzie
11.19.2013 , 09:55 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

EDIT: To add to the above, consider the appearance of 'modern' purebloods. They are not the tendriled, four fingered creatures of the Ancient era, some of them look completely human, but simply with red skin. I'd assume this is what Sith valued the most, pure Dark Jedi lineage. If I recall a quest you undertake seeing if people are pure doesn't involve looking a skin colour, but purity of blood.

I assume what he meant is blood closest to that of the Dark Jedi. Naturally given that fact that all almost the Dark Jedi interbred this is going to be the Purebloods, not the Humans - but could also be humans too.

Its obviously a lot more complex that simple temperance.
But the sith lord giving you this quest SPECIFICALLY states that the telltale red skin is very absent nowadays. And telltale red skin means sith blood, not Dark Jedi. This is where BW got it backwards and now try to chance old canon (note the single 'n' in the word, it's "canon" not "cannon", people) to suit their world view instead of adapting their own ideas into the rich world they licensed. And since you can't okay humans with ANY red skin at all...
And he did NOT mean Zabrak... They kinda don't count, being alien scum and all...

Stinghen's Avatar


Stinghen
11.20.2013 , 09:13 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Baalzie View Post
But the sith lord giving you this quest SPECIFICALLY states that the telltale red skin is very absent nowadays. And telltale red skin means sith blood, not Dark Jedi. This is where BW got it backwards and now try to chance old canon (note the single 'n' in the word, it's "canon" not "cannon", people) to suit their world view instead of adapting their own ideas into the rich world they licensed. And since you can't okay humans with ANY red skin at all...
And he did NOT mean Zabrak... They kinda don't count, being alien scum and all...
If there were a suitable and interesting explanation for the shift of belief, I would very much welcome that. Then it would not be lore-hijacking, which is what happens when a more profitable canon source (such as a videogame) contradicts previous canon, and all the EU authors rush in to retcon and utterly bin the old lore in favour of the "cooler colourful new lore".

Joushigun's Avatar


Joushigun
11.20.2013 , 09:50 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by jovianus View Post
Because, in case the whole blowing up entire planets and being run by the Evil Emperor wasn't enough to tell us that the Empire in the movies were the bad guys, they also made them arbitrarily humanocentric racists in a setting where humans and aliens have lived and worked together for tens of thousands of years. TOR is just stuck with the same silliness.
What you missed is the fact that, from an aesthetic/storyline perspective, the Empire was heavily based off of Nazi Germany in the same manner that the Kaleds/Daleks of Doctor Who were. Lore aside, that was what prompted the whole speciest aspect of the Empire even though most Empires of the past- the Roman for example- were actually fairly inclusive.
"I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife."- Lady Vastra, Doctor Who and the Snowmen

Stinghen's Avatar


Stinghen
11.20.2013 , 10:03 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Joushigun View Post
What you missed is the fact that, from an aesthetic/storyline perspective, the Empire was heavily based off of Nazi Germany in the same manner that the Kaleds/Daleks of Doctor Who were. Lore aside, that was what prompted the whole speciest aspect of the Empire even though most Empires of the past- the Roman for example- were actually fairly inclusive.
Actually, Vitiate's Sith Empire is based off of Palpatine's Galactic Empire, which is in turn based on Nazi germany. The resemblance to the GE is more important to Bioware than the resemblance to Nazi germany, because it's within the Star Wars universe

Joushigun's Avatar


Joushigun
11.20.2013 , 10:18 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Stinghen View Post
Actually, Vitiate's Sith Empire is based off of Palpatine's Galactic Empire, which is in turn based on Nazi germany. The resemblance to the GE is more important to Bioware than the resemblance to Nazi germany, because it's within the Star Wars universe
I know, but the original in-universe empire was inspired by Nazi Germany, which is where they took their inspiration from. That's all I'm saying.
"I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife."- Lady Vastra, Doctor Who and the Snowmen

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.21.2013 , 02:54 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Stinghen View Post
If there were a suitable and interesting explanation for the shift of belief, I would very much welcome that. Then it would not be lore-hijacking, which is what happens when a more profitable canon source (such as a videogame) contradicts previous canon, and all the EU authors rush in to retcon and utterly bin the old lore in favour of the "cooler colourful new lore".
Well I've been giving this some thought, and I feel the answer lies in the answer to the question: where did all the humans come from?

The Ancient Sith Empire was purely comprised of either Sith or Sith hybrids - no humans. And I'm really not sure hybrid interbreeding would eventually lead to a pure human, just more hybrids.

So the humans must have come from somewhere, somewhere outside the Empire. That would explain this particular cultural facet. Because it would mean that those human Imperials would have less Sith blood and the purebloods would have the strongest ties to the Ancient Sith.

Really I don't think all the humans in the Sith Empire (or any) can trace their DNA to the original dark jedi.

Stinghen's Avatar


Stinghen
11.21.2013 , 05:22 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Well I've been giving this some thought, and I feel the answer lies in the answer to the question: where did all the humans come from?

The Ancient Sith Empire was purely comprised of either Sith or Sith hybrids - no humans. And I'm really not sure hybrid interbreeding would eventually lead to a pure human, just more hybrids.

So the humans must have come from somewhere, somewhere outside the Empire. That would explain this particular cultural facet. Because it would mean that those human Imperials would have less Sith blood and the purebloods would have the strongest ties to the Ancient Sith.

Really I don't think all the humans in the Sith Empire (or any) can trace their DNA to the original dark jedi.
That's what I've been advocating all along. They inserted the Republic-guided genocide at the end of the Great Hyperspace War (though, I pray they'd have the sense to leave the Jedi out of this) and the ritual on Nathema, which could both attest for a significant reduction of the Red Sith population that Vitiate was actually able to "save". If a significant inflood of humans occurred shortly thereafter, you'd see a much more plausible cause for the observed human-to-Sith proportion. Without resorting to a nonsensical and un-creative retcon.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.21.2013 , 05:25 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Stinghen View Post
That's what I've been advocating all along. They inserted the Republic-guided genocide at the end of the Great Hyperspace War (though, I pray they'd have the sense to leave the Jedi out of this) and the ritual on Nathema, which could both attest for a significant reduction of the Red Sith population that Vitiate was actually able to "save". If a significant inflood of humans occurred shortly thereafter, you'd see a much more plausible cause for the observed human-to-Sith proportion. Without resorting to a nonsensical and un-creative retcon.
Well it seems likely, the Jedi/Republic must have massacred quite a few Sith. Though that still leaves the question of where the humans actually came from. Though one would expect they conquered and enslaved many human populated worlds during the Great Hyperspace War...