Let's take Hulu for instance. You can pay or not pay the $8 a month, but you don't pay extra everytime their is a new Office episode that comes out. That is why I personally feel ripped off here by this game. We are paying for them to add the new content, so we should be able to enjoy it for free and not have to use our stipend on it.

You are slightly mistaken here. Cather, Appearance Kiosk, etc, are NOT content, they are fluff. Playing Cathar or changing your face does not affect your gameplay in any meaningful way. Patch 2.1 is going to be a "Cartel Patch", but in a month after it, you will get Patch 2.2, which is supposed to be not focused on Cartel items.

Oh, and BTW, Cathar are basically free for Subscriber with Security Key (they cost 600CC, which is exactly what one moth+key gets you). If you do not want to play Cather, do not buy them.

You are slightly mistaken here. Cather, Appearance Kiosk, etc, are NOT content, they are fluff. Playing Cathar or changing your face does not affect your gameplay in any meaningful way. Patch 2.1 is going to be a "Cartel Patch", but in a month after it, you will get Patch 2.2, which is supposed to be not focused on Cartel items.

Oh, and BTW, Cathar are basically free for Subscriber with Security Key (they cost 600CC, which is exactly what one moth+key gets you). If you do not want to play Cather, do not buy them.

^This

And also, you don't even have to buy the physical key to get it. Just download the free app and sync it to your account, wham bam 100 extra cc a month for 2 minutes of your time.

Me personally, I am perfectly happy with what I get as a subscriber. I started playing this game as F2P and I gotta tell ya, I felt so gimped, especially without the sprint ability on a new toon. Trust me. Let your subscription run out and start a new alt as F2P, by level 10 you'll be itching to hand over that 15 bucks. I understand the op's stance though, since he's coming from a full sub model game, but this is not wow, bioware/ea are not activi$ion/blizzard. And for the most part, they have been pretty open about the cartel market, and how it affects us subs. In the end, nobody is forcing you to play.

Let's see, I'll use an example to try and illustrate what you get for $15 a month here

World of Warcrat:

1) access to lvl up from 1 to 90

2) dailies at lvl cap so that you can progress

3) Acces to dungeons past lvl 20

4) Acces to raids (Depending if someone wants to take you to their pug raid)

5) Acces to 9 different classes that have no story, only spells to differience them

now Star Wars: The Old Republic

1) 500cc a month + 100 if you have a security Key (both fisical or digital version)

2) Access to fp, ops and warzones

3) Increased xp gain and rested exp

4) Increased credit cap

5) Ability to wear different types of gear

6) Trade without restrictions and the ability to send and receive in game mail

7) You can send credits to your alts

8) Access to 8 different classes with their own story

I think that's all:rak_03:, In my opinion the $15 I'm paying for Swtor are well worth it.

I figure I ought to point out that this is basically an extra update within the whole "eight weeks" release schedule, with another update coming early June (11th?) which won't be as Cartel Market focused - who knows, maybe they'll even include another area like Section X that is free for subscribers.

As annoying as it might be, most F2P MMO's actually charge you for recustomizations, as do the sub games that actually have it available;

 

WoW: You can change your hair and beard for in game gold, anything further than that and you pay Blizzard real money.

Aion: Changing your character requires you to buy a customization plastic surgery ticket from the store.

TERA: See Aion

TSW: Same deal as Aion and TERA

RIFT: Not a clue, never played past level 20 - anyone?

Neverwinter: Once again, bought from their store.

DDO: I don't think it was available when I played, unless it was included in the reincarnation items (which were bought from their store)

LOTR: Not a clue, never played it.

City of Heroes/Villains: In game credits - but the game is also shut down and R.I.P.

 

Like every other company they are going to follow the "industry standard" - so if other MMO's charge for re-customizations... yeah...

Rift in game credits.

And Neverwinter? The game that's in beta now? I don't think Cryptic is making it RL money since no game in their history has done that. All are in-game credits with CoX, CO, to STO.

$15/month entitles you to complain about non-subscribers being the bane of your existance.

 

>.>

 

<.<

^this

Let's see, I'll use an example to try and illustrate what you get for $15 a month here

 

World of Warcrat:

1) access to lvl up from 1 to 90

2) dailies at lvl cap so that you can progress

3) Acces to dungeons past lvl 20

4) Acces to raids (Depending if someone wants to take you to their pug raid)

5) Acces to 9 different classes that have no story, only spells to differience them

 

now Star Wars: The Old Republic

1) 500cc a month + 100 if you have a security Key (both fisical or digital version)

2) Access to fp, ops and warzones

3) Increased xp gain and rested exp

4) Increased credit cap

5) Ability to wear different types of gear

6) Trade without restrictions and the ability to send and receive in game mail

7) You can send credits to your alts

8) Access to 8 different classes with their own story

 

I think that's all:rak_03:, In my opinion the $15 I'm paying for Swtor are well worth it.

Is WoW set up to let you level to cap without a sub? If not, that's a different model. Let's take games that are Freemium and compare them. There's a few you can do that with. Feel free: LotRO, DCUO, STO, CO, and many many more.

Is WoW set up to let you level to cap without a sub? If not, that's a different model. Let's take games that are Freemium and compare them. There's a few you can do that with. Feel free: LotRO, DCUO, STO, CO, and many many more.

It ain't you only get to go up to level 20.

"Perhaps you feel you're being treated unfairly?"

lol!

The Darth Vader business plan...

"I am altering the deal, pray I dont alter it any further"

Well, you spend much more such as on a movie in real life. 15 bucks for an entire month of enjoyment and access to 8 class stories is plenty compared to a 2-3 hour movie.

This is a great reply!

People need to look at this as entertainment and compare it to what other entertainment would cost. When you do that, you realize, the game is much cheaper. If you are tight on money, you should have a budget made and part of that is entertainment, like Cable TV, which charges WAY more and shoves commercials down your throat, on and you still have to pay extra for pay-per-view, HBO and so on....

My wife and I are addicted to this game, so to cover costs of the 2 subs and the few times we buy direct of the CM, we cancelled cable TV, which by comparison, is a true rip-off and we do not miss it.

<--Is consistently amazed by how many ppl complain endlessly about fluff content not being in the $15m sub price. I haven't gotten a toon above lvl 34, only get to play a couple of hrs a day 3-4 days a week, & don't do PvP at all. But I'll spend $15 a day on food....so for the added benefits u get being a sub on swtor, $15 is nothing....I throw it at em every month & don't think twice about it.

#drops mic & gives homeless dude $15 & a swtor poster....

lol!

 

The Darth Vader business plan...

 

"I am altering the deal, pray I dont alter it any further"

I keep hearing about new features being added like a new race and a barbershop, but they are not included in my subscription? My $15 a month is paying for you to develop these new fun features, so they should be included. It really makes me feel ripped off because $15 a month is a lot more than $0 a month. The cartel market should purely be for things that you haven't been developing to add to the game. The cartel market should be for only free to play people to have to use. My $15 a month should include any new races because we are paying you to develop them. So I don't get why you are nickle and diming us when we are paying you $15 a month. I could understand if our subscription was $5 a month, but it is $15 and my $15 a month includes any new races and any simple barbershop features in World of Warcraft. Please consider that we as subscribers are paying you to develop all these new fun things. And if we have to pay extra for fun then why are we paying the big amount of $15 a month?

Why do you think your subscription is paying for this update? Bioware has said they have 2 teams, a CC shop team and a content team, and they are separate. If we assume that your subscription goes to the content team and not the CC team then how does the CC team get funding...oh the Cartel market. So if they want to make more money the CC team has to release content to keep it coming. Cartel packs will only do so much, the same with new armor pieces. I have no problem with 2.1 and I am a subscriber as well. I understand there will be updates that focus on the CC shop. I don't PVP, so should they not do any PVP centered updates? No, they should look to appease everyone.

What they are adding with 2.1 is not required to enjoy the game and 2.2 which is suppose to be a content update is due a few weeks after. If I chose to use any of the new content with 2.1 I have saved up my monthly allotment of CC to spend. They are still not forcing you to use the Cartel shop to play the game, only to change what you look like while playing the game.

I keep hearing about new features being added like a new race and a barbershop, but they are not included in my subscription? My $15 a month is paying for you to develop these new fun features, so they should be included. It really makes me feel ripped off because $15 a month is a lot more than $0 a month. The cartel market should purely be for things that you haven't been developing to add to the game. The cartel market should be for only free to play people to have to use. My $15 a month should include any new races because we are paying you to develop them. So I don't get why you are nickle and diming us when we are paying you $15 a month. I could understand if our subscription was $5 a month, but it is $15 and my $15 a month includes any new races and any simple barbershop features in World of Warcraft. Please consider that we as subscribers are paying you to develop all these new fun things. And if we have to pay extra for fun then why are we paying the big amount of $15 a month?

As a subscriber, you are paying for ease of access.

Here's the examples:

1) you start off with sprint at level 1

2) you gain access to use of mounts sooner

3) you have access to your rested xp, and gain more xp than those who are F2P or premium

4) access to 3 crew skills

5) able to use 12 characters on your account

I can keep going. The point is, while leveling the subscription is really worth it. Once you hit max level and progress into end game content, it loses it's purpose. As an example, the hardcore raiders in my guild, don't sub. Said it is cheaper not to, and they don't see the point. Me, personally, I have no desire for end game content. Once I have completed all 8 class stories, I will log off and unsubscribe. I don't have the time, or energy to invest into end game content, and that never was the attraction for me.

Is WoW set up to let you level to cap without a sub? If not, that's a different model. Let's take games that are Freemium and compare them. There's a few you can do that with. Feel free: LotRO, DCUO, STO, CO, and many many more.

^ That's the questions I have with 2.1. When compared to other F2P MMO's (choosing DCUO as I subscribe to it, and have since launch), if I buy something on their cash shop (aside from consumables), I get it on every single character. 2.1 grants that ability, if I spend more on top of what I already spent. I can change the features of my character, any time, any place, to any style I have ever added. In 2.1, I can, once again, for a price. For me, I have questions on why if your competition does it, and does it better, how come you aren't matching or beating it?

I keep hearing about new features being added like a new race and a barbershop, but they are not included in my subscription? My $15 a month is paying for you to develop these new fun features, so they should be included. It really makes me feel ripped off because $15 a month is a lot more than $0 a month. The cartel market should purely be for things that you haven't been developing to add to the game. The cartel market should be for only free to play people to have to use. My $15 a month should include any new races because we are paying you to develop them. So I don't get why you are nickle and diming us when we are paying you $15 a month. I could understand if our subscription was $5 a month, but it is $15 and my $15 a month includes any new races and any simple barbershop features in World of Warcraft. Please consider that we as subscribers are paying you to develop all these new fun things. And if we have to pay extra for fun then why are we paying the big amount of $15 a month?

Well, from personal experience, I'd say that the sad truth is that the Cartel Market is aimed at subscribers more than it is aimed at F2P players, which was its original purpose apparently. If someone doesn't care about the game enough to pay 15 dollars a month, I think it's a pretty safe bet that he couldn't care less about new armor sets, vanity items, pets, emotes etc. Most F2P players I know of only buy one-time upgrades (like artifact equipment) or access to certain areas (like Section X) or rarely weekly ops passes.

On the other hand, the subscriber spends much more time in the game, he can appreciate new armor sets and likely wont be shy to pay extra to make his/her characters look cool. Several people I know have spent hundreds of dollars on the Cartel Market and purchase 7-8 hypercrates when a new pack comes out. I person I know confessed of having spent more than three thousand dollars on the Cartel Market so far. It's these crazy people that the CM is aimed that.

I agree, it's a slippery slope and Bioware is going downhill. So far nothing "essential" has been added to the CM, I agree, but I have a strong feeling that Bioware is purposefully "designing" extremely disgusting looking-armor, so that people would have to purchase armor from the Cartel Market. Sure, enough, you can wear the landing platform-sized shoulders and the cooking mittens without losing any stats but let's face it, a true subscriber will not.

If the cartel market items are luxury etc why are developers wasting time to develop them when bugs from a year ago are still there? also people who say you get 500 coins probably did not check how expensive is the darn cartel market. your 500 is nothing, you cant even buy an armor set with it. our subscription is only buying us to play the game as is, nothing more. rest is all illusion.

Developers don't work on 99% of the CM stuff.

Why? Because the guy programming in new bosses has no idea how to build 3D models. And the person designing the art for CM gear has no idea that C++ is a language.

For me, I have questions on why if your competition does it, and does it better, how come you aren't matching or beating it?

Well, the fact is that it's Star Wars. People play it because it is THE Star Wars game, not because it's slightly different from the other ten million fantasy MMOs already on the market. People won't abandon their lightsabers, blasters, Force powers, droids, starships etc. just because some other games have a more rewarding cash-shop system.

Star Wars fans will stick to this game no matter what kind of cash shops WoW, GW2, Rift, DCUO, TES etc. have. The developers can get away with everything because this is Star Wars and it has no competition.

I agree, it's a slippery slope and Bioware is going downhill. So far nothing "essential" has been added to the CM, I agree, but I have a strong feeling that Bioware is purposefully "designing" extremely disgusting looking-armor, so that people would have to purchase armor from the Cartel Market.

Take the quotes off "essential" and add them to "have to" (purchase) and I agree.

You get CC per month as a subscriber. Don't waste them on packs, buy the things you really need and you wont have to spend a single penny beyond the subscription fee.

600 CC can only go so far - which is next to nothing. But it seems that some believe it's magical and you can buy everything with that.

Developers don't work on 99% of the CM stuff.

 

Why? Because the guy programming in new bosses has no idea how to build 3D models. And the person designing the art for CM gear has no idea that C++ is a language.

yes but there is a certain budget covering dev salaries. And it looks like cartel market team is getting the lions's share of the budget paid from our subscriptions.

Well, the fact is that it's Star Wars. People play it because it is THE Star Wars game, not because it's slightly different from the other ten million fantasy MMOs already on the market. People won't abandon their lightsabers, blasters, Force powers, droids, starships etc. just because some other games have a more rewarding cash-shop system.

 

Star Wars fans will stick to this game no matter what kind of cash shops WoW, GW2, Rift, DCUO, TES etc. have. The developers can get away with everything because this is Star Wars and it has no competition.

I see where you're coming from. I just have a hard time believing they do it because they can.

Yes, but, we already paid the $10 for the xpac, and by the time the Cathar comes out that is about $15 x 2 months, so that is $30 plus the $10, with that you are at $40 already, which is getting damned close to the $50 for an expac that lasts for 2 years which includes everything.

Does this make sense to anyone? Guess my first mistake is trying to make sense of someone complaining about paying $15 for hours of entertainment. Even if you only play one hour a month it is still a bargain to be entertained for one hour for the price of $15. Try to go to a bar, stripclub, Six Flags, or whatever you are into and try to only spend $15 and see how far you get. If you dont like it dont pay and shut up. If you want to play as a cat then save up your cartel coins and buy your access to your beloved Cat. Bottom line is that this game is a business, if it doesn't make enough money it will be gone, PERIOD.

We all liked the days that we paid 15 bucks and we got it all. The truth is Gamers are stupider now then they used to be and they think they are getting ripped off for playing a monthly fee so MMORPGs found a way to trick dummies into paying more by not calling it a monthly sub. This model is not going anywhere so we need to get used to it. The only game i know of that does not have this model is WOW and that is for obvious reasons. Regardless, if you dont want to buy that game fluff you dont have to. I personally ignore everything in the cartel market and use the coins to buy perks.