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Fight Club


georgemattson

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So I'm hearing a lot of the same kinds of frustrations, over and over. Every day brings new complaints about the same old things:

 

- Players leaving warzones early

- Noobs don't listen

- Elites treat noobs rudely

- Offensive behavior in general

- Pre-mades ruining matches by steam-rolling the competition

- No match-making system

- Overpowered (or underpowered) classes

 

It occurs to me that if we can get a large enough group of decent (as in emotionally stable) players together, we could create a sort of "fight club." Two guilds; one Republic, one Imperial, both on the same server, who could queue together for warzones, play open world PvP, exclude rude and offensive players, teach each other. perform our own match making, etc.

 

As things currently stand, we're isolated by the Internet, but there's no reason why 20-30 people (or whatever the number ends up being) couldn't get together and just choose up sides. Split up the noobs between sides and split up the "leets" as well (or just don't queue together at the same time). Open world PvP becomes an actual possibility, training is much more accessible (because then you know that the noobs you're trying to train will actually listen to you and the "leets" who are training you aren't going to rip you apart for being a noob,

 

Granted, I don't know how well we could potentially "game the system," as it were. Even if we somehow managed to get 16 players together at the same time, with 8 in each faction, all in the same bracket, and we all queued at the same time, I don't necessarily know that we'd face each other every time.

 

Aside from that, there's also a fairly decent PITA factor. Many of them would be obvious; people on different servers, time zones, level brackets, gear, etc., but IMNSHO, the biggest obstacle to this will be player mindsets. Would YOU be willing to roll a character on a new server or transfer? Would you be willing to take time out of your gaming schedule to help a bunch of strangers become better, knowing it would take a fair chunk of time before they could provide you with a challenge? I know I am, but are you?

 

I understand that there are some significant obstacles to this, but I fully believe this could potentially be the answer to an awful lot of the problems we're dealing with. Think about it:

 

- Players leaving warzones early

- Noobs don't listen

- Elites treat noobs rudely

- Offensive behavior in general

None of these should be a problem; if you're a member of Fight Club, you're expected to stay in matches for the duration as well as behave like an adult. Being able to pick our members allows us to invite decent people into the guilds as well as remove people who can't behave like decent human beings

 

- Pre-mades ruining matches by steam-rolling the competition

- No match-making system

- Overpowered (or underpowered) classes

None of these also should be a problem. If we can manage to organize ourselves into our own tiered skill levels, we can coordinate when we queue and do our best to ensure that the noobs queue with noobs and the leets queue with elites.

 

Overall, I think such a concept could offer a lot of promise for creating exactly the type of game that a lot of us here are looking for. It might require short term sacrifices from everyone who chooses to join in, but offers an awful lot of potential in the long term. It would also, coincidentally, solve a lot of the problems with the general nastiness in PvP chat.

 

What do you guys think?

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You know I like it...a definite improvement on PvPfugee and other ideas we've tossed around. I think a couple of next steps are:

 

(1) Pick a home. While I hate to say it, it probably doesn't behoove us to setup on a dedicated PvP server, as that would immediately alienate anyone who's interested in joining a guild to improve at PvP but has concerns about jumping into a sharktank.

(2) Create guilds and setup guild tools (site, voicechat, etc.).

(3) Start recruiting. We should probably create or find interested parties to put alts on every server so we can start talking it up over Fleet chat, in addition to the LFG forums on each server.

(4) Establish schedules for unranked, ranked solo and ranked group events, in addition to environment PvP. Provide both open and closed events, to give potential recruits a taste of what we're like while also creating exclusivity.

(5) Identify tactics for mentoring / coaching, so that guild members have resources to help them improve, and they know that someone has their back when they come up against d-bags in PvP.

 

Unfortunately, I think it's up to a small group of us to "put our money where our mouth is", and prove out the model. The level of dissatisfaction with SWTOR PvP is so high right now that most players feel powerless to affect change on their own, and many are walking away. And, without a healthy PvP community with whom to dialog, BW will continue to struggle to figure out how to change things for the better, and things will continue to atrophy until no-one is playing.

 

I've said this before, but for all its flaws I think SWTOR has some of the most interesting game mechanics for PvP of any MMO out there. It provides a great balance between FPS-focused (e.g., CoD) and strategy/tactics focused (e.g., EVE Online). Would hate to see it go away because the community was so disengaged and fragmented that BW decided it wasn't worth it.

 

Count me in.

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You know I like it...a definite improvement on PvPfugee and other ideas we've tossed around. I think a couple of next steps are:

 

(1) Pick a home. While I hate to say it, it probably doesn't behoove us to setup on a dedicated PvP server, as that would immediately alienate anyone who's interested in joining a guild to improve at PvP but has concerns about jumping into a sharktank.

(2) Create guilds and setup guild tools (site, voicechat, etc.).

(3) Start recruiting. We should probably create or find interested parties to put alts on every server so we can start talking it up over Fleet chat, in addition to the LFG forums on each server.

(4) Establish schedules for unranked, ranked solo and ranked group events, in addition to environment PvP. Provide both open and closed events, to give potential recruits a taste of what we're like while also creating exclusivity.

(5) Identify tactics for mentoring / coaching, so that guild members have resources to help them improve, and they know that someone has their back when they come up against d-bags in PvP.

 

Unfortunately, I think it's up to a small group of us to "put our money where our mouth is", and prove out the model. The level of dissatisfaction with SWTOR PvP is so high right now that most players feel powerless to affect change on their own, and many are walking away. And, without a healthy PvP community with whom to dialog, BW will continue to struggle to figure out how to change things for the better, and things will continue to atrophy until no-one is playing.

 

I've said this before, but for all its flaws I think SWTOR has some of the most interesting game mechanics for PvP of any MMO out there. It provides a great balance between FPS-focused (e.g., CoD) and strategy/tactics focused (e.g., EVE Online). Would hate to see it go away because the community was so disengaged and fragmented that BW decided it wasn't worth it.

 

Count me in.

 

Yeah... I know that the biggest barrier to this is going to be the fact that no one has done it before. I'm ambivalent on the idea of picking a PvE server as well. I think you have a good point with that, but I wonder where most PvP-oriented players would congregate. I would think we'd be more likely to find PvP players already on PoT5 or Bastion, and I would guess there's a certain number of players who just would not be interested in moving, so creating this on a server where they are already located might be the best option.

 

As for creating the guild, voice chat, website (if we wanted to put one together), I wouldn't mind handling that. Creating an account on a Mumble server (or whatever, if other players had a preference for a different voice client) is something I can handle, but since there's a cost involved I'd prefer not to do so until we at least had a dozen or so of us interested in this.

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In SWG we used to do Red v Blue every few months

Two guilds were created titled red or Blue, and team captains were picked. And basically you were put into a random team for a week and all you did was go around and fight each other.

 

Ideas like this could work, aslong as the guilds are inclusive and not exclusive because then you start creating a new set of issues rather then encourage pvp

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In SWG we used to do Red v Blue every few months

Two guilds were created titled red or Blue, and team captains were picked. And basically you were put into a random team for a week and all you did was go around and fight each other.

 

Ideas like this could work, aslong as the guilds are inclusive and not exclusive because then you start creating a new set of issues rather then encourage pvp

 

I wonder if we're talking about a different type of inclusive and exclusive here. Personally, I was planning to exclude rude and offensive players, but to actively go out of my way to try and include anyone who wished to learn to PvP. I see a lot of threads online complaining about the behavior of other players online and I think we could resolve a lot of that by creating two teams that made it clear that this type of behavior wasn't tolerated.

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I like it. However, I have a few concerns.

 

1. If this truly was organized as a guild, it would exclude people (including me) who already are on a guild and are not interested in leaving that guild. So I couldn't join the guild at least on Red Eclipse.

2. I would be happy to offer maybe 2-3 days a week for the this, but I don't want it to start feeling like a full-time job. Especially if I end up rolling a new toon in another server just for this.

 

Anyway, I'd love to both learn more and share my humble knowledge about pvp as long as it doesn't take too much time & I don't have to leave from my guild on my Red Eclipse-toons. ^^

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I like it. However, I have a few concerns.

 

1. If this truly was organized as a guild, it would exclude people (including me) who already are on a guild and are not interested in leaving that guild. So I couldn't join the guild at least on Red Eclipse.

2. I would be happy to offer maybe 2-3 days a week for the this, but I don't want it to start feeling like a full-time job. Especially if I end up rolling a new toon in another server just for this.

 

Anyway, I'd love to both learn more and share my humble knowledge about pvp as long as it doesn't take too much time & I don't have to leave from my guild on my Red Eclipse-toons. ^^

 

no one need to change guilds just large group of friends

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Like the windmill in gw2's wvw?

 

I like it. What's funny though is that while Anet acknowledges the interest of the playerbase and has said they will implement a more structured way for players to do this and GVG, BW has done .... well, you know.

 

Yeah, I've never actually played GW2, but have heard a lot of good things about it. Think I'm kinda stuck in the lightsaber-loving fanboi mode at the moment, though.

 

I like it. However, I have a few concerns.

 

1. If this truly was organized as a guild, it would exclude people (including me) who already are on a guild and are not interested in leaving that guild. So I couldn't join the guild at least on Red Eclipse.

2. I would be happy to offer maybe 2-3 days a week for the this, but I don't want it to start feeling like a full-time job. Especially if I end up rolling a new toon in another server just for this.

 

Anyway, I'd love to both learn more and share my humble knowledge about pvp as long as it doesn't take too much time & I don't have to leave from my guild on my Red Eclipse-toons. ^^

 

As for the guild thing, I figure that might make it easier to coordinate, but I wouldn't think we'd necessarily have to do it. Of course, until/unless BW institutes cross-server PvP, we would have to congregate on one server.

 

If u are on pot5 I am in

 

Sounds good; I'm on PoT5 as well. Characters are as follows:

 

Republic

Arlenvoss (55 Sentinel that I don't play)

Rexorshan (54 Watchman Sentinel)

Keyira (27 Combat Sentinel, main at the moment)

Aldenack (19 Gunslinger)

Muleone (11 Gunslinger)

 

Imperial

Cheldiarr (36 Concealment Agent)

Karnad (21 Marauder)

O'rama (14 Inquisitor)

 

Feel free to ping me on any of them if you see me online

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Oh, and I should probably mention; if we do pick another server (or if players want to play on PoT5 but want to play against players of similar levels), I'm happy to roll a new alt.

 

Figure I need a few more sentinels.

 

Mmm, I'll have to check my server lag on those American servers sometime soon, I'll be happy to roll a new alt to i.e. PoT5 if the lag isn't insane. ^^

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Great thinking from all parts. This could be a movement towards greater things. But why limit it to one server;

there could be an overall website to register membership. And be a 'Red and Blue' on each server. this would include entire guilds not only single unaffiliated players. To expect this to be on a grand scale from the start is naive, since far from all players roam these forums. We need to spread the word. And pick a day and hour, any rude and otherwise unfriendly players can be collectively put on ignore. Now player behavior can change, this I've seen, so let's make our standpoint to that of a majority. I see great possibility here ...

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Great thinking from all parts. This could be a movement towards greater things. But why limit it to one server;

there could be an overall website to register membership. And be a 'Red and Blue' on each server. this would include entire guilds not only single unaffiliated players. To expect this to be on a grand scale from the start is naive, since far from all players roam these forums. We need to spread the word. And pick a day and hour, any rude and otherwise unfriendly players can be collectively put on ignore. Now player behavior can change, this I've seen, so let's make our standpoint to that of a majority. I see great possibility here ...

Great suggestions! We'd need a core of likeminded to manage the guilds across the servers, but it's certainly doable. If cross-server queue ultimately happens before we die (ha!), we'll be in good shape. Otherwise, players have the flexibility to transfer or roll characters on any server knowing there's a guild there that aligns with their PoV. I'm glad to get the ball rolling on JC, since I'm already here.

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Great thinking from all parts. This could be a movement towards greater things. But why limit it to one server;

there could be an overall website to register membership. And be a 'Red and Blue' on each server. this would include entire guilds not only single unaffiliated players. To expect this to be on a grand scale from the start is naive, since far from all players roam these forums. We need to spread the word. And pick a day and hour, any rude and otherwise unfriendly players can be collectively put on ignore. Now player behavior can change, this I've seen, so let's make our standpoint to that of a majority. I see great possibility here ...

 

I have said before prelaunch there was a guild finder why not put it back in keep it on the forums and help people find like minded people.

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Great thinking from all parts. This could be a movement towards greater things. But why limit it to one server;

there could be an overall website to register membership. And be a 'Red and Blue' on each server. this would include entire guilds not only single unaffiliated players. To expect this to be on a grand scale from the start is naive, since far from all players roam these forums. We need to spread the word. And pick a day and hour, any rude and otherwise unfriendly players can be collectively put on ignore. Now player behavior can change, this I've seen, so let's make our standpoint to that of a majority. I see great possibility here ...

 

I actually also thought of a website. If the "listing" for this "club" was outside SWTOR, people who don't want to leave their guilds could also join. We could list as "members" not only guilds who want to join the "red and blue", but also individuals who are willing to "join the cause", although their guild isn't. I could see some dedicated pve casual pvp -people joining too, if this was the case. Completely possible they'd want to learn more about pvp, but don't want to leave their raiding guild. Same thing with primarily RP casual pvp -people.

 

Maybe we could even also have a forum there where people could share the things they have learned and compare the results in different servers and give tips if something goes better in server x than in server y and the less skilled people could tell what things are especially hard to learn or how they were able to learn some of those things more easily and and and - *goes to pink fluffy unicorns mode*

 

Anyway, the point is, website would be great if we ever try to go a little bigger than 1 server. We could always start with one server, though. ^^

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m in but i have 1 question "would low levels be helped/ not being yelled at for a tiny slip:o" and also would the guild help out the new 55sget geared up for pvp cause i lve pvp and im good at it but sometimes need a guiding hand on gearing :rolleyes:

 

Yep. Everyone except you. :D

 

Just kidding - that's actually the entire point of this (or at least a really large part of it). As far as I'm concerned, this is just a game and I'd much rather go into a PvP match where we get blown out, but everyone is laughing, joking, and having fun, as opposed to one where there's an overdose of profanity, abuse, and harassment of players because they either don't have the right gear, don't know how to play their class to someone else's standard, or made a mistake that cost a match.

 

Of course, that being said, I would like to see us all get better and I'll definitely be looking for advice and help myself (sparring partners and feedback would be great). If we play on PoT5, I have eight alts at the moment and have a fair amount of crafting on those toons. I'd be happy to provide crafting service, in other words, although I am habitually poor as a church mouse since I don't do much raiding, so it may be a question of bring your own mats.

 

And fwiw, I'm still working on my gear as well.

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I've actually got a website and DNS entry that I reserved last year for a satire website I was going to setup (think a university website version of The Onion), but I never had the time to focus on it. Would be glad to contribute it to the cause.

 

Sounds pretty cool. At this point, I'm wondering how many people would be the right number to actually start this and what we should start with. I wouldn't mind paying for a Mumble server for a few months to help start this off, but on the other hand I don't think we yet have enough players to go for this.

 

As you mentioned earlier, too, we do need a home. So far, I think we have two of us on PoT5 (me and Ryder), you on JC, Klintrin on an undisclosed server, Sei on RE (but willing to move for 2-3 days, maybe), and the rest of us undisclosed as to intention. Is that enough to start? Fwiw, I think we could get the website together immediately, but without a large enough member base that might be premature.

 

Also... embarrassing question time for everyone:

 

Anyone in particular want to lead this? I will if no one else wants to, but I'm more comfortable in a supporting role. I'll be quite happy to get the mumble server, help with the website (I've done a little bit of html), do the administrative work, etc. if someone else would be a better overall leader on this?

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