Edit: Wait a sec...guys this is about Maul, why are we dragging Sidious into this?

[/color]*shrug* or Maul thought he was capable enough to hold them off. Which he was. And what would the alternative have been? Simply wade in their and try and kill them? The flaws are the same just amplified.

Heh, well most of my friends have to be drunk before they'll watch films with me because I'm notorious for complaining about people's bad strategies or silly tactics. If I was Maul, and knew I had to find a way to kill a Jedi Master and his apprentice, knowing that they favored a lightsaber form that was weak in tight quarters, I would have attacked while they were still grouped with Anakin and the Queen.

A surprise attack against the group while they were in the hangar bay would have caused considerable confusion and panic. The guards would not have been effective, since firing into the melee would risk killing the Jedi, other guards, the queen, or even Anakin.

The first target would have been Obi-Wan, the less skilled of the two Jedi. In the large group of people, it would have been equally difficult to use Ataru's acrobatics for defense, and the Jedi would have been concerned that Maul's target was the queen or Anakin, so they would have to divide their attention.

Killing Kenobi swiftly would allow Maul to focus on Qui-Gon, but still move around chaotically in the melee, playing to the strengths and randomness of Juyo to raise hell. Once the Jedi are dispatched, then either retreat or just lay waste to the remaining guards.

I'm not at all saying there bad. Maybe clunky was the wrong word. In fact I think there excellent and I love watch them over and over again. However compared to Maul the fighters seem that bit more slower and less 'skilled'. Not that that's criticizing the actual trailers themselves, just the Jedi in them from an in-universe perspective. And I'm strictly speaking of the fights in the TCW here. That's a thing, we need to be careful we don't look at this from an out-of-universe perspective. Obviously in both duels the opponents wanted to kill eachother, the ineffectiveness of their moves is purely down to their choreographers - unless you can think of an in-universe reason.

I guess there's a blurry distinction between what constitutes "in-universe" and what we are actually shown of the characters. The Jedi and Sith in the cinematic trailers fight much better than the Jedi in the prequels. Perhaps they are not as fast in their movements, but that is because the Jedi in the prequel Era are trained using "sequences" of maneuvers, which are executed very quickly but rely on a certain predictability of movement of the part of your opponent.

The fights in TOR appear much more free form, open to improvisation and less to the rapid execution of established sequences and forms. There is a maneuvering and adaptation present in those duels, with each combatant competing for an opening in which to make a kill, one that is not present in the combat forms of the PT Jedi. While the skill of the PT Jedi is impressive, the pacing of the duels is very differently themed.

You simply cannot argue they were absolute Bantha fodder with no skill whatsoever without completely disregarding the entire Jedi Order of that era.

 

And even if you do the fact remains Sidious was an absolute master of all seven lightsaber forms and yet Maul managed to land a blow on him. And even if Sidious was toying with him do you really think he'd allow Maul to score a hit?

 

P.S. If this really irks you so much why not just accept the fact that Sidious is that good. Oh and a thread on the Rule of Two would be very interesting indeed.

I'm not saying that Sidious wasn't that good, he clearly is.

In light of your arguments for those erstwhile Jedi, I suppose I have to revise my statement. While they may have been blademasters on paper, on point of technicality, and possessed skill in handling their weapons, they were still senseless idiots. They lacked any concept of tactical know-how, or dueling prowess. They set themselves up for failure by crowing into a narrow hallway and confronting the Chancellor in secret.

Furthermore, they did not coordinate their attack, or prepare for the possibility that the SITH LORD might fight back violently.

You simply cannot argue they were absolute Bantha fodder with no skill whatsoever without completely disregarding the entire Jedi Order of that era.

uhm,hello???

i though that goes without saying

Yo Aubere, after looking at your sig I'd just like to say one thing to you:

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT GEORGE LUCAS SAYS!!!

No but seriously, who cares? Star Wars is what you want it to be. The movies had loads of stupid moments. If you consider G-canon as the word of God then hey, ewoks can kill storm troopers wearing full armor with sticks and stones! And Boba Fett can't aim. And Obi-wan's obviously a compulsive liar cause he says so much ********. "It can't have been Sand People, only Stormtroopers are that accurate!" (the dead jawas in Episode IV). Well, why can't they hit anything in the movies then?

Oh and midi-chlorians. Yep, friggin midi-chlorians. Need I say more?

G-canon is worthless.

Yo Aubere, after looking at your sig I'd just like to say one thing to you:

 

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT GEORGE LUCAS SAYS!!!

 

No but seriously, who cares? Star Wars is what you want it to be. The movies had loads of stupid moments. If you consider G-canon as the word of God then hey, ewoks can kill storm troopers wearing full armor with sticks and stones! And Boba Fett can't aim. And Obi-wan's obviously a compulsive liar cause he says so much ********. "It can't have been Sand People, only Stormtroopers are that accurate!" (the dead jawas in Episode IV). Well, why can't they hit anything in the movies then?

 

Oh and midi-chlorians. Yep, friggin midi-chlorians. Need I say more?

 

G-canon is worthless.

Well to clarify...

1. Stormtrooper armor, you can compare to steel/plate armor. It'll protect you from swords and the like, however it won't protect you from a bullet. The same thing applies to Stormtrooper armor, only in reverse.

2. As for Boba not being able to aim...you can't exactly aim a wrist blaster compared to an actual blaster rifle/pistol. Sure he has a helmet to target for him, however the blaster bolt can still miss...besides what moron decides to get up close and personal with a Jedi anyway?

3. Stormtroopers are accurate and as I recall, that is shown twice in ROTJ. One Stormtrooper hits R2 and another hits Leia.

4. Midi-Chlorians...not sure what is wrong with them, all they do is showcase who can/can't use The Force...pretty much it.

Yo Aubere, after looking at your sig I'd just like to say one thing to you:

 

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT GEORGE LUCAS SAYS!!!

Well I appreciate it that you looked at my sig, but only The Rock can say that, so us lower beings can't say that.

However, G-canon is the law of Star Wars. People may not like certain elements of that tier, but it is law. We just have to deal with it.

However, G-canon is the law of Star Wars. People may not like certain elements of that tier, but it is law. We just have to deal with it.

If the machine of canon is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.

1. Stormtrooper armor, you can compare to steel/plate armor. It'll protect you from swords and the like, however it won't protect you from a bullet. The same thing applies to Stormtrooper armor, only in reverse.

Er, what? Please explain your reasoning, how is armor that can protect you from bullets not going to protect you from swords/rocks? The reason steel armor won't stop a bullet is because the kinetic energy and penetration capabilities of a bullet exceed those of a sword by several orders of magnitude.

2. As for Boba not being able to aim...you can't exactly aim a wrist blaster compared to an actual blaster rifle/pistol. Sure he has a helmet to target for him, however the blaster bolt can still miss...besides what moron decides to get up close and personal with a Jedi anyway?

Actually, a wrist blaster should be more accurate than a blaster pistol since you eliminate the wrist joint's potential for destabilizing your shot. It should be as accurate as a rifle, if not more.

If the machine of canon is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.

I am dying of laughter at this. A real gem.

Er, what? Please explain your reasoning, how is armor that can protect you from bullets not going to protect you from swords/rocks? The reason steel armor won't stop a bullet is because the kinetic energy and penetration capabilities of a bullet exceed those of a sword by several orders of magnitude.

 

 

 

Actually, a wrist blaster should be more accurate than a blaster pistol since you eliminate the wrist joint's potential for destabilizing your shot. It should be as accurate as a rifle, if not more.

 

 

I am dying of laughter at this. A real gem.

1. Because the armor isn't able to withstand piercing objects such as knives and the like?(The Stormtrooper armor that is) Clearly that is shown to be proven within the movies. Why would you have armor, protect you from spears and arrows in a universe with blasters and the like? Clearly the company that designed the armor, didn't have this in mind and didn't offer any protection for stabbing and piercing weapons that is being thrusted into the armor multiple times. Not to mention, the black body suit underneath all the armor...the Ewoks could have gotten through the plates and also started stabbing there too.

2. Well then I guess Boba really is terrible at aiming, either that or he was so caught up with capturing Luke he wasn't thinking straight.....since he decided to go close to the guy wielding a blade that can cut through things like a hot knife through butter....best bounty hunter in the galaxy my foot.

1. Because the armor isn't able to withstand piercing objects such as knives and the like?(The Stormtrooper armor that is) Clearly that is shown to be proven within the movies. Why would you have armor, protect you from spears and arrows in a universe with blasters and the like? Clearly the company that designed the armor, didn't have this in mind and didn't offer any protection for stabbing and piercing weapons that is being thrusted into the armor multiple times. Not to mention, the black body suit underneath all the armor...the Ewoks could have gotten through the plates and also started stabbing there too.

 

2. Well then I guess Boba really is terrible at aiming, either that or he was so caught up with capturing Luke he wasn't thinking straight.....since he decided to go close to the guy wielding a blade that can cut through things like a hot knife through butter....best bounty hunter in the galaxy my foot.

I just don't see how that logic works for the Stormtrooper armor. Perhaps the Ewoks were stabbing near the joints/armpits and getting through the bodysuit, but it's irrational to think that a hard composite armor is going to be more vulnerable to low impact spears with stone tips than it is to energy weapons.

If they had shield generators, or soft body armor, I would understand that the primitives exploited that weakness. However, that's clearly not the case. Thankfully, the Ewoks got what was coming to them... when Endor was destroyed

As for Boba, yeah... maybe it was getting really hot in that suit on Tatooine and he couldn't think straight.

Why do you have to make up absurd excuses for different kind of nonsense that is considered canon?In a franchise like Star Wars ''canon'' doesn't have the same meaning as in for example LotR or Warcraft.

For example if i don't like episode VII i will simply decide that those events never happened in the Star Wars universe,just like that.Something i can't do in Warcraft and Lord of the Rings, or Game of Thrones novels,Diablo universe,Starcraft ,ect.

If the machine of canon is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.

However people, I think you guys are misremembering the Battle of Endor. For one, no stormtroopers were killed by spears, but by arrows, which are more than capable of hitting those exposed joints and possibly even piercing armour. After that the stormtroopers pretty much sent those guys packing. If it weren't for their traps and help from Chewbacca and the rebels they would have been imperially creamed.

Stormtrooper accuracy is not too hard to get over (god knows why were having this discussion but what the hell) - it can be easily explained by the following article from cracked.com - very interesting, and very funny.

Why do you have to make up absurd excuses for different kind of nonsense that is considered canon?In a franchise like Star Wars ''canon'' doesn't have the same meaning as in for example LotR or Warcraft.

 

For example if i don't like episode VII i will simply decide that those events never happened in the Star Wars universe,just like that.Something i can't do in Warcraft and Lord of the Rings, or Game of Thrones novels,Diablo universe,Starcraft ,ect.

And your justification for this is..? Last time I checked Star Wars is the only universe with a gosh darn Holocron Continuity Database.

What's more, in reality its all one big universe you can't say NO to one thing and YES to another. Take for example, the name Courscant, Aalya Secura, YT-2400s they all started out as C-canon and were moved into G-canon...yet they were still apart of the universe before.

In truth, the EU actually expands and gives more explanations to things that the movies didn't have time to go over. The only time, you can really ignore EU stuff if things were retconned or stuff in S/N canon(or things that make contradictions). You can't really ignore C-canon, because its just expanding on information that is already given.

What's more, in reality its all one big universe you can't say NO to one thing and YES to another.

You know what I just say to people.

"It's canon. Don't like it? Deal with it. Whining about it won't change a thing."

You know what I just say to people.

 

"It's canon. Don't like it? Deal with it. Whining about it won't change a thing."

Yes, but it helps to also explain why.

Yes, but it helps to also explain why.

I'll let other people (like yourself) do that.

And your justification for this is..?

Despite the fact that Lucas Arts have legal authority and the final say concerning anything that is called Star Wars,and during the years have kept a certain level of high quality among SW producs,the franchise is not made up by a single entity or person.For example Tales of the Jedi comics has nothing to do with the movies and George Lucas has very little influence behind all SW ideas except the Skywalker saga(movies) and Bane maybe,as a backstory.

Basically he just created the movies plot and then sat back and enjoyed other people expanding the universe.Which i am not saying with negative intent,but just as argument for not being a big deal if someone decides not to take seriously a chapter of the SW universe.Something no one will ever consider for the Lord the Rings universe for example.

"It's canon. Don't like it? Deal with it. Whining about it won't change a thing."[/color]

i've already dealt with it.

What i find amusing is people that try to excuse and twist around some kind of crappy reasoning to explain some parts of the canon that do no make any sense.And even they know it.But nevertheless are forced to make up rationalisations in order the whole thing to make any sense in their heads, just because ,you know, ''it's canon''. And the whole thing becomes a mess.(I am talking about other stuff,not referring to the Sidious debate from a few pages back,)

I personally am thankful to Lucas for creating the franchise,beyond that, i don't recognise his authority for some stuff,for example i make up my own mind concerning who is more powerful than whom based on theorycrafting and observation of the given character..Specially for anything beyond the movies era.

Despite the fact that Lucas Arts have legal authority and the final say concerning anything that is called Star Wars,and during the years have kept a certain level of high quality among SW producs,the franchise is not made up by a single entity or person.For example Tales of the Jedi comics has nothing to do with the movies and George Lucas has very little influence behind all SW ideas except the Skywalker saga(movies) and Bane maybe,as a backstory.

Basically he just created the movies plot and then sat back and enjoyed other people expanding the universe.Which i am not saying with negative intent,but just as argument for not being a big deal if someone decides not to take seriously a chapter of the SW universe.Something no one will ever consider for the Lord the Rings universe for example.

i've already dealt with it.

What i find amusing is people that try to excuse and twist around some kind of crappy reasoning to explain some parts of the canon that do no make any sense.And even they know it.But nevertheless are forced to make up rationalisations in order the whole thing to make any sense in their heads, just because ,you know, ''it's canon''. And the whole thing becomes a mess.(I am talking about other stuff,not referring to the Sidious debate from a few pages back,)

 

I personally am thankful to Lucas for creating the franchise,beyond that, i don't recognise his authority for some stuff,for example i make up my own mind concerning who is more powerful than whom based on theorycrafting and observation of the given character..Specially for anything beyond the movies era.

What you've failed to deal with is that not everyone agrees with your point of view, instead you aggressively intrude of forums such as this and attempt to enforce your opinion on everyone else

What?That's the last thing i would do.Besides my pov is not that different anyway,except 1,2 opinions about the movies.