Hey everyone,

I play on Canderous Ordo and just made a guide on PvPing as a Watchman Sentinel or Annihilation Marauder.

The guide covers Spec, Priorities, and Min-Maxing. It will help from the newest of people to those who play pretty heavily. Give it a look and place any questions here and I will try to respond quickly.

Enjoy!

http://www.ld-fifty.com/jedi-knight/marauder-%28anni%29-sentinel-%28watchman%29-full-pvp-guide-%28sept-2012%29/

Pretty good guide. Only criticism I would make is that force leap really shouldn't be treated as a focus builder, which is how you characterized it.

I also optimized my stats differntly, with over 1100 power I still have over 30% crit, so that part of your guide is a little inaccurate, but good work.

Not bad. He's right about using force charge as a focus builder, especially with the vindicators bonus. I've been using it for a while, and it's quite helpful. Two things though:

1. Force camo should also be used to close the gaps against snipers since we can't leap to them in cover.

2. You're gonna want to go with power over strength if your in annihilation/watchman. It gives better damage. Currently I'm sitting at 1300 power, 25% crit, and 77% multiplier. My primary is 949. I crit often with my build, and when I crit it hurts. Having focused strength over power prior to usin this build, in now see a major increase in my damage output. Hell, people on my server are falsely accusing me of hacking due to my dps. This is just the most optimal build I've arrived at after long experimentations. If you're satisfied with your build however, more power to you. You mentioned that you have issues fighting multiple people listing your 20k health as something that helps. If your dps burns down multiple people before they can burn you, your survivability has gone up. I'm sitting at 18200 health, and have no issues surviving with my build. Especially against multiple opponents since I've been constantly marked in warzones for the past two months.

949 max damage? With 1300 power? I'm at like 1110 primary with just over 1100 power. What's your str like 1400?

And I still strenously disagree with using leap in your normal rotation. Its too important of a move, and is really better used as an interupt and a gap closer. Using your leap off cooldown to build focus is a really bad habit that lots of anni/watchmen develop. Sure, 10% more damage after leap is great, but 10 % more of 0 is 0, and if you close quarters leap at a class with a kb thats exactly how much damage you will be doing for those 5 seconds.

Nice guide dude, I still haven't figured out the perfect spot on my chain for saber overload, if I'm in range it usually goes after zealous strike, but if I force leap in it goes while in transit, have to figure out what's the sweet spot for it.

also I have never thought about the vindicator gear part. good looking out

Not bad. He's right about using force charge as a focus builder, especially with the vindicators bonus. I've been using it for a while, and it's quite helpful. Two things though:

 

1. Force camo should also be used to close the gaps against snipers since we can't leap to them in cover.

2. You're gonna want to go with power over strength if your in annihilation/watchman. It gives better damage. Currently I'm sitting at 1300 power, 25% crit, and 77% multiplier. My primary is 949. I crit often with my build, and when I crit it hurts. Having focused strength over power prior to usin this build, in now see a major increase in my damage output. Hell, people on my server are falsely accusing me of hacking due to my dps. This is just the most optimal build I've arrived at after long experimentations. If you're satisfied with your build however, more power to you. You mentioned that you have issues fighting multiple people listing your 20k health as something that helps. If your dps burns down multiple people before they can burn you, your survivability has gone up. I'm sitting at 18200 health, and have no issues surviving with my build. Especially against multiple opponents since I've been constantly marked in warzones for the past two months.

I updated the camo, thanks a lot for pointing that out as it is an important part against those high dps classes.

As for the whole power argument, there are people on both sides, and we will never know without extreme testing, but I feel that Crit does play a major part considering if berserk/zen is down or you need the utility of inspiration/bloodthirst or transcendence/predation

nonetheless there is a great guide here on testing the Power vs Crit argument

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5126750#post5126750

And onto the health, I'm mainly thinking of going up against higher quality teams, specifically rateds. In those situations, 20k health is a necessity.. If not, you're a couple of rail shots away from death

Nice guide dude, I still haven't figured out the perfect spot on my chain for saber overload, if I'm in range it usually goes after zealous strike, but if I force leap in it goes while in transit, have to figure out what's the sweet spot for it.

 

also I have never thought about the vindicator gear part. good looking out

I use overload saber while force jumping because it's off of the global cooldown and saves time

and thanks!

949 max damage? With 1300 power? I'm at like 1110 primary with just over 1100 power. What's your str like 1400?

 

And I still strenously disagree with using leap in your normal rotation. Its too important of a move, and is really better used as an interupt and a gap closer. Using your leap off cooldown to build focus is a really bad habit that lots of anni/watchmen develop. Sure, 10% more damage after leap is great, but 10 % more of 0 is 0, and if you close quarters leap at a class with a kb thats exactly how much damage you will be doing for those 5 seconds.

Around 1450 strength yes. This is for pvp though. I Dont see how you gonna get 1100 primary damage without losing heavily on expertise. If not, by all means share your build. As for a leap, ask the people I kill how it's doin for them. Not only can I have 10% damage every 7 seconds or so, but coupled with 3 stacks of overload, and 5 of juyo, you're going I drop. I have no issue whatsoever with players who try to kite. If I'm gunning for a player, they're gonna die no matter what. Not only do I have leap on 12 seconds, I have force camo, and trans on valorous call. My cauterize also slows the target down. You're also assuming that I open up with a leap. Unlike most sentinels, I run up to targets in anticipation for the Knockback. Even if I do open with a leap, I'll have an overload saber and merc slash on the target before they even get the chance to Knockback. However that opening is used rarely. I'm assuming your referring to the dual weilders who leap > ravage/master strike. In which case yes they're going to lose dps due to it being channeled.

I updated the camo, thanks a lot for pointing that out as it is an important part against those high dps classes.

 

As for the whole power argument, there are people on both sides, and we will never know without extreme testing, but I feel that Crit does play a major part considering if berserk/zen is down or you need the utility of inspiration/bloodthirst or transcendence/predation

 

nonetheless there is a great guide here on testing the Power vs Crit argument

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5126750#post5126750

 

And onto the health, I'm mainly thinking of going up against higher quality teams, specifically rateds. In those situations, 20k health is a necessity.. If not, you're a couple of rail shots away from death

No problem. As for the stats I guess to each their own. I'm only offering my opinion based on my own testin of stacking both. My dps with stacking pure power and crit is higher than when I stacked strength/crit with minimal power. And I agree that you cannot always rely on zen. Especially for attacks such as slash, master strike, merciless slash, etc.

In regards to health I used to run with around 19500 when I was stacking strength. I was a bit worried that I ended up at 18200 when I changed to power. However having played this a lot lately, I don't really see any detrimental effects. If anything my increase in damage ensures my survivability. but again to each their own I suppose. Whatever you feel gets the job done. I don't know about you, but I've had people falsely accuse me of hacking due to my high dps. I'm not saying that to brag, It's actually rather annoying, but just something that has been happening ever since I switched to pure power/crit. Im assuming that means I must be doing something right. Good guide though.

I have 1208 expertise, 1702 str, 1634 end, 1102 power, 205 crit, and 371 surge. Im too lazy to make a virtual version of my toon, but i have re-modded everything, with WH deft mod 26's in every mod slot, 2 power relics, orange belt and bracers with might 26s. I have 2 power surge enhancements and the rest are a mix of accuracy and crit enhancements.

My stat lines are:

948-1110 primary

214-321 secondary

623 bonus damage

96.34 accuracy

30.06 crit

77.95 crit multiplier

19027 hp.

I understand how to play the class, over 2000 rating, and I know what the talents do. Im just trying to give some sound advice that leap shouldn't just be used off cd.

I mean, I leap a lot in wzs, but if im pounding on a sorc who hasn't used overload Im not going to use my leap to generate focus, thats a nub move.

I mean, I leap a lot in wzs, but if im pounding on a sorc who hasn't used overload Im not going to use my leap to generate focus, thats a nub move.

I'm sorry, I just don't see how this is a noob move. Not using force jump throws your Deadly Saber/Overload Saber into a different cooldown. Using them together (for the most part) ensures a proper rotation, otherwise you would have to use Battering Assault/Zealous Strike first.. If you are caught using DS/OS first, you're wasting a small fraction of time (but still time) and negating the 10% damage bonus on your bleeds, and whatever else you put out before force jumping

I have 1208 expertise, 1702 str, 1634 end, 1102 power, 205 crit, and 371 surge. Im too lazy to make a virtual version of my toon, but i have re-modded everything, with WH deft mod 26's in every mod slot, 2 power relics, orange belt and bracers with might 26s. I have 2 power surge enhancements and the rest are a mix of accuracy and crit enhancements.

 

My stat lines are:

948-1110 primary

214-321 secondary

623 bonus damage

96.34 accuracy

30.06 crit

77.95 crit multiplier

19027 hp.

 

I understand how to play the class, over 2000 rating, and I know what the talents do. Im just trying to give some sound advice that leap shouldn't just be used off cd.

I mean, I leap a lot in wzs, but if im pounding on a sorc who hasn't used overload Im not going to use my leap to generate focus, thats a nub move.

When I say primary I'm referring to the first number on the range. So we're not that different, one point off, as far as primary damage. 949 is not my max. As far as the leap is concerned, you're gimping yourself if you're not going to reapply the bonus when it's off cooldown. It's not a "nub" move at all. Your stats aren't that bad, but your play style suggests that you aren't utilizing them to their maximum potential.

When I say primary I'm referring to the first number on the range. So we're not that different, one point off, as far as primary damage. 949 is not my max. As far as the leap is concerned, you're gimping yourself if you're not going to reapply the bonus when it's off cooldown. It's not a "nub" move at all. Your stats aren't that bad, but your play style suggests that you aren't utilizing them to their maximum potential.

its totally a nub move, and I explained why, but I'll break it down for you again.

You are in combat against any class with a knockback, you 0 range leap just to get the vindi buff, they knock you back immediately, now you can't hit them for at least 2 globals, so you just wasted half of you vindi buff. You are better off waiting 3 seconds until he knocks you back, then leaping and getting the full benefit.

I'm sorry, I just don't see how this is a noob move. Not using force jump throws your Deadly Saber/Overload Saber into a different cooldown. Using them together (for the most part) ensures a proper rotation, otherwise you would have to use Battering Assault/Zealous Strike first.. If you are caught using DS/OS first, you're wasting a small fraction of time (but still time) and negating the 10% damage bonus on your bleeds, and whatever else you put out before force jumping

Overload saber is off the gcd. You can use it at any moment in a fight.

Watchman sents don't have a rotation, we have priority abilities. If you are trying to follow the same rotation all the time you aren't playing the spec right.

Also, any good sent knows that you should use zealous strike before you use leap, if possible. Leaping to generate focus is one of the major mistakes that separates good sents from mediocre ones. That's a wasted interrupt, or time you will be spending off target.

its totally a nub move, and I explained why, but I'll break it down for you again.

 

You are in combat against any class with a knockback, you 0 range leap just to get the vindi buff, they knock you back immediately, now you can't hit them for at least 2 globals, so you just wasted half of you vindi buff. You are better off waiting 3 seconds until he knocks you back, then leaping and getting the full benefit.

Sorry but it just doesnt work like that for me. Don't know what you're doing on your end. Unless I'm opening with a leap, I rarely get knocked back on range 0 leaps. Even If I do, it's very easy to close the very minimal gap and apply dps. But that's very rare. People don't use Knockbacks just because you leap. It's when you begin to bring down their health and they know they're in trouble. Only times people on beregren knock back on leap is if the sentinel/Mara ravages right after the jump. A good dual weilder runs up to the target, and anticipates the Knockback before applying the initial leap. By then, in 12 seconds, if the targe survived that long, you can re apply the bonus from the leap and build focus. Not a "nub" move at all.

Overload saber is off the gcd. You can use it at any moment in a fight.

 

Watchman sents don't have a rotation, we have priority abilities. If you are trying to follow the same rotation all the time you aren't playing the spec right.

 

Also, any good sent knows that you should use zealous strike before you use leap, if possible. Leaping to generate focus is one of the major mistakes that separates good sents from mediocre ones. That's a wasted interrupt, or time you will be spending off target.

The imperials on Beregren Colony would beg to differ about this sent.

Just a quick note on Commandos and Pacify - Grav Round is a tech attack so its not a great spec to use pacify against. Works against full auto though which hits pretty hard so not bad but personally i'd save it for ... more dangerous specs.

I also think its great against pyro's (either tree) as the only thing i'm particularly worried about from them is rail shot.

I'd be a bit picky about when to use saber ward too as the best part about it is the defensive bonus, a quick list there wouldn't hurt

Just a quick note on Commandos and Pacify - Grav Round is a tech attack so its not a great spec to use pacify against. Works against full auto though which hits pretty hard so not bad but personally i'd save it for ... more dangerous specs.

I also think its great against pyro's (either tree) as the only thing i'm particularly worried about from them is rail shot.

 

I'd be a bit picky about when to use saber ward too as the best part about it is the defensive bonus, a quick list there wouldn't hurt

Hey man, thanks for the reply and I will put more detail into the saber ward section.

I thought TM/Grav Round was a tech attack as well, but when I go up against the class and use Pacify/Obfuscate, it seems to work well against it. either that, or the class has just had horrible RNG. I will test it against someone and update if I am wrong.

thanks again for the feedback!

Personally as a sage healer I give a quick "phew" when I see sent/maras waste their jump rather than using it to interrupt my heal or after I sprint/KB. Pretty much means I get to heal more.

Yes, sages and sins should be noted as they have enough stuns, KBs, and kite ability to make a difference, I will update this in the guide. Thanks for pointing this out

You guys sure we shouldn't be stacking expertise? I have heard it both ways, that there's a DR at 1200... but I've also heard there isn't, and we should still take all the expertise we can.

I tried the 41 power crystal for a while, as well as the black hole adapter... giving up expertise for other stats. In both cases I "felt" I was both surviving and doing better dps with max expertise.

Oh and, force camo gets you thru a firepit without damage? Really?

Oh and, force camo gets you thru a firepit without damage? Really?

I said without taking a ton of damage, Camo cuts 50% of damage taken and is great when you need to get through fire so a jugg/guardian can jump to you for the score

As for expertise, from past testing, I found around 1200 to be the best number.. I will do more testing and get back to you

You guys sure we shouldn't be stacking expertise? I have heard it both ways, that there's a DR at 1200... but I've also heard there isn't, and we should still take all the expertise we can.

 

I tried the 41 power crystal for a while, as well as the black hole adapter... giving up expertise for other stats. In both cases I "felt" I was both surviving and doing better dps with max expertise.

 

Oh and, force camo gets you thru a firepit without damage? Really?

You don't need to stack expertise too high. Get around 1k and you should be fine. I have 1158 currently, and that's with moddable bracers and belts.

Also force camo used to be 100% damage reduction, but as he said above its 50% now.

lol at 1 point in inflammation

and you don't mention the awesome burst of master strike -> merciless?

Also, i don't really get why people say it's better to stack power and run around with 20% crit

Sure, you have 6 zen auto crits on dots, but unless you are going to have it up all the time, your argument is invalid.

Don't forget other stuff like master strike, dispatch, merciless slash and that dot crits heal you

lol at 1 point in inflammation

and you don't mention the awesome burst of master strike -> merciless?

 

Also, i don't really get why people say it's better to stack power and run around with 20% crit

Sure, you have 6 zen auto crits on dots, but unless you are going to have it up all the time, your argument is invalid.

Don't forget other stuff like master strike, dispatch, merciless slash and that dot crits heal you

Because by stacking 1300 power I get 949 primary damage along with 25% critical chance and 77% multiplier. I get plenty of 6/7k hits on merc slash. Also, zen doesn't auto crit, it increases your dots critical chance by 100%.

With 25% melee critical chance you're going to have about 30% force critical, which affects your burns. Additionally of specced, each stack of juyo will increase burn critical chance by 3%, so that's an additional 15% with five stacks of juyo. Basically once I get that I'm sitting at about 45-50 (depending on spec) for force critical chance maximum. Essentially, whenever I apply dots I'm going to get heals, without needing to always rely on zen. My other attacks crit very often with my 25% chance, and due to high power, they are incredibly high. If someone has 20% chance unbuffed, and is stacking power, then they should be fine. If its 20% buffed, then I'd be a bit worried. Oh and since you made eye rolls cool,