Something I've never understood is people constantly saying that the Jedi of the Prequel Trilogies, are the best duelists and force users in history simply because George Lucas has stated that is the Golden Age of Jedi. Golden age can mean a couple different things. It could mean, as many people say, that the Jedi of this time are indeed the strongest in the history of the Jedi; however, it could also mean that it was a time of peace, prosperity, and enlightenment. This could simply mean that the Jedi of this time were the most knowledgeable/wisest or that this was time when fighting was not necessary. Either way, that is something that is open to debate.

I just wonder why people are so quick to say someones opinion is wrong by using something that is completely opinionated. "The Golden Age of Jedi" can be interpreted several ways. Just because you say that blah blah blah Jedi is stronger than blah blah blah Jedi simply because Jedi 1 was in the "Golden Age" doesn't make you right. Yes, George Lucas did state that the Golden Age was in the Prequel Trilogies. He did not say that they were strongest Jedi of all time. If you wanna say that Obi-wan Kenobi is stronger then Revan because he resided in the Golden Age and Revan did not, that is not canon. That is your opinion of George Lucas' use of Golden Age. However, if you wanna say the Obi-wan was stronger because he was one of the greatest masters of Soresu, then you are using facts that are canonly accurate and we can debate about it (just to be clear, I'm not saying Revan is better than Kenobi, just using it as an example.)

All I'm trying to say in this thread is, stop saying something is a fact based off of something that can be taken two different ways. All it does is discourage peoples opinions and doesn't allow people to stop and think maybe they have a point there.

note

I have not until recently started researching the lore of the Star Wars universe so if anything in this topic is not true just let me know. This is just my opinion based off of many topics i've seen posted on this section of the forums. I do want to learn more about the canon of star wars so if I'm wrong about something please inform me so I know that what I'm saying is factually wrong.

I think George Lucas also said that the PT Jedi Order was better than any Order before.

But you are right that Golden Age can mean different things. The Golden Age of the Sith was the time of Marka Ragnos, but this doesn't mean Ludo Kressh was better than Exar Kun.

Golden Ages (=times of peace, prosperity and learning) have the advantage that talented Jedi are very likely to reach their full potential. If you make sure they still train, which the Jedi did. In times of war, many of them are killed before they can reach it. On the other hand, people who fought in real battles have more experience.

So most likely if you put the "bests of their time" against each other, on an arena, the Jedi from the Golden Age would win. But if they meet during a battle, the more experienced might come out on top.

P.S. Better don't use Revan. That will probably derail this thread. Take Satele Shan, she is less controversial.

Yes, you can interpret 'Golden Age' to mean anything. But if you look at the capabilities of the Masters of the Prequel Order, you will find that it truly means that they are the best. Many of their members are revered as the best ever seen. But we also have to look at how the Jedi gain power.

The Jedi Order gains power during times of peace, specifically when the Sith are not active. So lets take the time between Ruusan and TPM. During this thousand years of peace, the Jedi were given the time to increase their knowledge of the Force, expand their knowledge of the Lightsaber forms, and increase in overall power. This thousand years of learning culminated in the most powerful Jedi Order ever seen. The reason for this dramatic increase in power is due to the Sith not being active. When the Force is shifted out of balance, specifically towards the Dark Side, the Jedi have a lessened ability to use the Force. We see this happen in AOTC, when Mace Windu and Yoda talk about their lessened ability to use the Force. This is because of the Force shifting towards the Dark Side.

This is not to say that all other Orders are super-weak and all that. The Jedi Order has always been strong, but they are at their best during peace-times. So both of your interpretations are correct. The PT Jedi are not only the most learned, but also the most powerful. At least until the NJO comes around.

EDIT: If you want I can pull out the whole Windu besting Sidious thing...

Something I've never understood is people constantly saying that the Jedi of the Prequel Trilogies, are the best duelists and force users in history simply because George Lucas has stated that is the Golden Age of Jedi. Golden age can mean a couple different things. It could mean, as many people say, that the Jedi of this time are indeed the strongest in the history of the Jedi; however, it could also mean that it was a time of peace, prosperity, and enlightenment. This could simply mean that the Jedi of this time were the most knowledgeable/wisest or that this was time when fighting was not necessary. Either way, that is something that is open to debate.

 

I just wonder why people are so quick to say someones opinion is wrong by using something that is completely opinionated. "The Golden Age of Jedi" can be interpreted several ways. Just because you say that blah blah blah Jedi is stronger than blah blah blah Jedi simply because Jedi 1 was in the "Golden Age" doesn't make you right. Yes, George Lucas did state that the Golden Age was in the Prequel Trilogies. He did not say that they were strongest Jedi of all time. If you wanna say that Obi-wan Kenobi is stronger then Revan because he resided in the Golden Age and Revan did not, that is not canon. That is your opinion of George Lucas' use of Golden Age. However, if you wanna say the Obi-wan was stronger because he was one of the greatest masters of Soresu, then you are using facts that are canonly accurate and we can debate about it (just to be clear, I'm not saying Revan is better than Kenobi, just using it as an example.)

 

All I'm trying to say in this thread is, stop saying something is a fact based off of something that can be taken two different ways. All it does is discourage peoples opinions and doesn't allow people to stop and think maybe they have a point there.

 

note

I have not until recently started researching the lore of the Star Wars universe so if anything in this topic is not true just let me know. This is just my opinion based off of many topics i've seen posted on this section of the forums. I do want to learn more about the canon of star wars so if I'm wrong about something please inform me so I know that what I'm saying is factually wrong.

You are absolutely right.

I have a feeling you took this from my Revan thread didn't you? lol

I think that all Lucas's comment about the prequel Jedi being some of the best ever means this:

The Jedi Order of this time is generally more powerful and all-together a little more learned then MOST of preceeding Jedi. Very simple.

Let's say you're a OR Jedi. Does this mean that you're automatically less powerful then a PT Jedi? No. What George Lucas was saying was about the two orders as a WHOLE. This doesn't mean that there aren't exceptional Jedi of the OR who could beat Jedi of the PT era. Thus we should leave what Lucas said about this aside when comparing Jedi of these two different era's simply because there are exceptions.

Yes, you can interpret 'Golden Age' to mean anything. But if you look at the capabilities of the Masters of the Prequel Order, you will find that it truly means that they are the best. Many of their members are revered as the best ever seen. But we also have to look at how the Jedi gain power.

 

The Jedi Order gains power during times of peace, specifically when the Sith are not active. So lets take the time between Ruusan and TPM. During this thousand years of peace, the Jedi were given the time to increase their knowledge of the Force, expand their knowledge of the Lightsaber forms, and increase in overall power. This thousand years of learning culminated in the most powerful Jedi Order ever seen. The reason for this dramatic increase in power is due to the Sith not being active. When the Force is shifted out of balance, specifically towards the Dark Side, the Jedi have a lessened ability to use the Force. We see this happen in AOTC, when Mace Windu and Yoda talk about their lessened ability to use the Force. This is because of the Force shifting towards the Dark Side.

 

This is not to say that all other Orders are super-weak and all that. The Jedi Order has always been strong, but they are at their best during peace-times. So both of your interpretations are correct. The PT Jedi are not only the most learned, but also the most powerful. At least until the NJO comes around.

 

EDIT: If you want I can pull out the whole Windu besting Sidious thing...

^ Its this really, no matter how you may interpret it. It all boils down to no matter what the PT Jedi Order is the strongest, they gain power through peace, training, and learning. Compared to the Sith where they get their power from violence, war, and corruption. Thats pretty much it in a nutshell, the golden age of the jedi is the PT Jedi Order..least until Grand Master Luke comes along.

If you want OP, I could list the capabilities of the PT's best. I'm gonna do it anyway. You said it yourself that you don't have the greatest grasp of the lore.

Yoda- Master of all seven lightsaber forms and mastered Ataru to its greatest extent. Excellent user of battle meditation. Extremely powerful Force Wave and Farsight near the level of Darth Sidious

Mace Windu- Master of all seven lightsaber forms and created the Vaapad form. Used shatterpoint (basically an iwin button). I don't really need to list more for Mace.

Obi-Wan Kenobi- Greatest master of Soresu form and could match Anakin Skywalker in power. Most powerful Force Push in the Jedi Order

Plo Koon- Master of Djem So and hand-to-hand combat. Proficient user of Force Lightning. Capable of using the Force to affect the environment and was very skilled in telekinesis

Cin Drallig- Authority on lightsaber forms and was a master of each of them

Anakin Skywalker- Chosen One. nuff said.

Just a few Jedi from the PT, but they were all titans of their era. I could list more, but I'll leave it at that for now.

EDIT: Obviously this isn't all they could do, but its a good beginners grasp of it.

^ Its this really, no matter how you may interpret it. It all boils down to no matter what the PT Jedi Order is the strongest, they gain power through peace, training, and learning. Compared to the Sith where they get their power from violence, war, and corruption. Thats pretty much it in a nutshell, the golden age of the jedi is the PT Jedi Order..least until Grand Master Luke comes along.

So if the Jedi get more powerful through peace, and the Sith through violence and war, how come the Sith of Plagueis / Sidious' time were so much more powerful than any of the Jedi during that age? Shouldn't Yoda's order by your logic be tenfold more powerful than Sidious & his cronies ? I mean, Yoda himself admitted that the Jedi's downfall was that the Jedi didn't evolve during the peace-era. Contradictory ?

So if the Jedi get more powerful through peace, and the Sith through violence and war, how come the Sith of Plagueis / Sidious' time were so much more powerful than any of the Jedi during that age? Shouldn't Yoda's order by your logic be tenfold more powerful than Sidious & his cronies ? I mean, Yoda himself admitted that the Jedi's downfall was that the Jedi didn't evolve during the peace-era. Contradictory ?

The Sith training of the Banite line answers this. Each new apprentice was trained to beat the master. So each new apprentice was stronger than the last.

When did Yoda say that? If you mean in the ROTS novel, he said that he trained for the wrong kind of Sith. He had trained the Jedi for open warfare, not this new breed of Sith.

The Sith training of the Banite line answers this. Each new apprentice was trained to beat the master. So each new apprentice was stronger than the last.

 

When did Yoda say that? If you mean in the ROTS novel, he said that he trained for the wrong kind of Sith. He had trained the Jedi for open warfare, not this new breed of Sith.

Thanks for the answer, quite satisfactory ^^

So if the Jedi get more powerful through peace, and the Sith through violence and war, how come the Sith of Plagueis / Sidious' time were so much more powerful than any of the Jedi during that age? Shouldn't Yoda's order by your logic be tenfold more powerful than Sidious & his cronies ? I mean, Yoda himself admitted that the Jedi's downfall was that the Jedi didn't evolve during the peace-era. Contradictory ?

The main reason why the jedi were defeated by sidious was because they were ready to fight the same sith that they had defeated before. They didn't expect the sith to change like they did.

It meant the PJ are the greatest, not the most powerful. But the greatest.

There are obvious Jedi pre-Prequel Order that could destroy Prequel Jedi.

Same thing with Sith, any member of the Banite Sith or most of them would completely Demolish Marka Ragnos's Golden Age.