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RIP craft / economy


chosonman's Avatar


chosonman
01.16.2015 , 10:51 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by Daxy View Post
I think the game went off the rails with 12xexp
The game seemed much healthier over the summer but these heavy handed moves have, seemingly, gutted the leveling economy, gutted leveling group finders, and gutted the barriers keeping players from getting in too deep (ie- having a max level toon with no real knowledge how to gear or provide for itself)

The endgame is now the new beginning- level 60 is the new level one- maybe this is some radical new game style where there are no more levels and Bio is really pushing the envelope but I don't think so

It really seems as though this slot machine is a passive/aggressive way of dealing with the ops exploit- "some people exploited the game to get access too the stash so let's just flood the market with grade 11 purples- that will fix things"

I really only logged into the game to sell items, run crew missions, and pvp
I also know that my playstyle is not "mainstream" but I did pay a monthly sub and with all these recent changes I'm kinda losing steam here
The best thing I liked about 3.0 was solo fp's- in a MMO ffs- serenity now

Long story short- crew skills/economy is really the only thing that I end up enjoying in a mmo but I'm afraid swtor has officially jumped the shark in 3.0
Im in complete agreememt. The game seemed much healthier prior to 12x. Ive said it before and I'll say it again. 12x was a huge mistake. It gutted the steam of leveling players that creatrd a gap between new players and 12x ers. Group finder is dead so is low level FPs and they even managed to kill lowbie pvp somehow. The constant pandering to pay 2 winners is causing an irreparable slide in the quality of the game and has caused me to consider quitting for good once my sub is up.
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MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
01.17.2015 , 02:13 AM | #102
Quote:
Please explain, oh enlightened one. Explain how people that invested [an established amount of] time and credits into being able to gather certain materials are not harmed by a sudden change to the system that allows people who invest less time and credits (near zero and less than zero, actually) to instantly compete on equal footing.
Do you suffer ******ophrenia or something? Sometimes you come across as mellow and cool and then wham all of a sudden this ******e attitude pops up out of nowhere.

Firstly the time and cost of gathering materials hasn't changed at all in terms of running missions. Yes people can no go and get materials via slots but so can you whilst still running your missions.

If you bought your materials from the GTN to supply your crafting well that's your bad luck. Everyone knows supply and demand can change all the time and just because a material is 50K today doesn't mean it will be tomorrow. Sure they've take a larger than normal dive here but market trends will always affect those that solely rely on "purchase power" to fund their crafting. It's a gamble and a risk where as gathering is not ( yet unless it actually does go under that mission cost threshold ).

I see that as no different to me queuing up 5 white/blue dyes seeing they were, at last check, selling for 100K, they are now between 40-50K ( yet not all dyes are, there are still a few around 90K ). The material cost I budgeted my profit on was 60K so I would ideally be making a loss except luckily for me in this case the material cost has dropped too so I don't make a loss.
Actually I never would have made a loss, I gathered the mats at a much lower cost than 40K anyway. I guess the proper term would be making less profit than had I sold the mats.

And dyes were fluctuating a lot before this slot machine also in case someone wants to point at this being the case for the price drop. One day things are at 40K, the next 100K. Had this slot machine not been there I would have made less profit - solid.

Point - if you buy mats you run the risk of losing money all the time depending on market forces. If you gather you will almost always make A profit.

So where as before your profit might have been 100K and it's now 10K ... you're not being hurt. You aren't losing anything, you are still making credits. Likewise as the cost of mats comes down the cost crafted items will come down and as people make less money and the money sink absorbs more money the cost of CM items will ideally come down too ( and anything else people may buy ).

So rather than explain how I think you are not hurt as I am not you - how about you explain how you are hurt? You're the one implying you've been hurt with you rather hostile post. Perhaps if instead of acting like an *** you did this in the first place I could have replied "good point, never thought of that" or countered with something you may not have thought of. That is how discussions and debates work my friend.

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
01.17.2015 , 02:19 AM | #103
Quote:
Im in complete agreememt. The game seemed much healthier prior to 12x. Ive said it before and I'll say it again. 12x was a huge mistake. It gutted the steam of leveling players that creatrd a gap between new players and 12x ers. Group finder is dead so is low level FPs and they even managed to kill lowbie pvp somehow. The constant pandering to pay 2 winners is causing an irreparable slide in the quality of the game and has caused me to consider quitting for good once my sub is up.
Whilst i can see your point on this and it is probably correct ( more people made toons and leveled them and thus they won't now ) could you not counter that by saying the end game marketing etc. has increased? I mean less lower levels means more upper levels right?

I've seen your point on crafting and it's wrong, sorry, to say "crafting is dead/broken". I agree some crew skills have been heavily affected by not crafting on the whole. It's always swings and round abouts in this game. I remember my tried and true crew skills Artifice/Treasure Hunting and Archaeology used to be thought as rather wasteful by many ( no idea why, they've always worked awesome for me ) yet now they are FoTM.

Who knows what is around the corner for your crew skills also ... maybe some major changge where you will be the laughing all the way to the bank.

Add to this it only takes you a few days to chance a crew skill too at a casual pace. Nothing is forcing you to keep the ones you think are flawed. Some times you have to adapt or be left behind ... or quit if that's your choice but I wouldn't quite solely based on how your crew skills are ... look at your own logic, lower levels dead thus higher levels aren't ... what can you do instead that will make you good coin from the higher levels?

Quiting should be the last resort when you think the game as a whole is no fun anymore, if you haven't branched out and tried something different you can't really blame the game/bioware.

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
01.17.2015 , 03:56 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
nothing
So you got nothing? That's what I thought.
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Ryvirath's Avatar


Ryvirath
01.17.2015 , 04:10 AM | #105
Speaking as a disinterested credit billionaire (close to 3 billion and counting), I could give a damn about the change. It doesn't affect me in any meaningful way. Speaking as a player of this game, I'm of two minds:

1. I believe the slot machine will effectively crush gold sellers, who can no longer bot around planets to make any sort of meaningful profit. Sure, they can macro slot machines like everyone else, but 'like everyone else' being the operative words there. This will clear up the obnoxious fleet/mailbox spam.
2. It trivializes most existing content. Conquest rewards are now virtually meaningless. Mats from packs are meaningless. Mats in general are on the way to becoming meaningless and trivial. Dailies will again become a principal source of income.
3. The loss of interaction to a slot machine is not desirable. This was not a good way to go about this and can't be healthy for the game. When the acolyte's pack is out of circulation how will new players even think about competing in the post slot machine economy?
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znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
01.17.2015 , 04:18 AM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by Ryvirath View Post
Speaking as a disinterested credit billionaire (close to 3 billion and counting), I could give a damn about the change. It doesn't affect me in any meaningful way. Speaking as a player of this game, I'm of two minds:

1. I believe the slot machine will effectively crush gold sellers, who can no longer bot around planets to make any sort of meaningful profit. Sure, they can macro slot machines like everyone else, but 'like everyone else' being the operative words there. This will clear up the obnoxious fleet/mailbox spam.
2. It trivializes most existing content. Conquest rewards are now virtually meaningless. Mats from packs are meaningless. Mats in general are on the way to becoming meaningless and trivial. Dailies will again become a principal source of income.
3. The loss of interaction to a slot machine is not desirable. This was not a good way to go about this and can't be healthy for the game. When the acolyte's pack is out of circulation how will new players even think about competing in the post slot machine economy?
For 3) considering that this machine only gives reputation for one CM faction, you can reasonably expect that other machines based on the different reputations will be introduced (with the same general mechanic).

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
01.17.2015 , 06:26 AM | #107
Quote:
So you got nothing? That's what I thought.
Pfft, child.

Quote:
1. I believe the slot machine will effectively crush gold sellers, who can no longer bot around planets to make any sort of meaningful profit. Sure, they can macro slot machines like everyone else, but 'like everyone else' being the operative words there. This will clear up the obnoxious fleet/mailbox spam.
Well they if they can macro/bot the slots they will do so until it stops being profitable to do so.
I would assume macro runs, collects tons of jawja junk, human goes back to screen every few hours, sell trophies, lists mats, possibly waste time using up the cart certs and listing the result.

One would also assume they would do that in addition to whatever auto operations they run now.

Either way more gold to sell = more fleet spam.

Quote:
2. It trivializes most existing content. Conquest rewards are now virtually meaningless. Mats from packs are meaningless. Mats in general are on the way to becoming meaningless and trivial. Dailies will again become a principal source of income.
Conquest has always been that way since it's craft to win, it's not just cheaper and more accessible to everyone. It used to be the richest guilds win now it may be the most active willing to click the slots

Mats can't become meaningless, crafting still needs to occur. Just because everything loses it's value from the current norm ( previous ) doesn't mean it's meaningless. It in fact will never be meaningless unless for some reason crafting becomes so.

Dailies as always are one of the few sources of pure new income to the game. The slots are still a money sink so for sales to continue there needs to be income introduced to the game ( vendoring things, dailies and everything else that gives you credits for doing game activity ).

Quote:
3. The loss of interaction to a slot machine is not desirable. This was not a good way to go about this and can't be healthy for the game. When the acolyte's pack is out of circulation how will new players even think about competing in the post slot machine economy?
If you read Eric's post you see they intended it as a more fun, whimsical thing. I think whoever actually put it in somehow got through any sort of economy QC and we have what we have. It will change.

Also some have speculated there will be further slot machines for each of the CM reputation types. I tend to think the same.

oked's Avatar


oked
01.17.2015 , 08:54 AM | #108
So I guess the devs were inspired by the drop in gas prices to make purple level crafting items super easy to obtain

If you dont know what I mean basically with the jawa scrap now giving crafting level 11 purples combined with the new slot machines that spit them out like tickets at chuckey cheese higher tier items like augments, saber hilts and so on have become extremely easy to craft and so on the gtn has gone through a plumit

an example: overkill augs, the most popular, went from about 120k on the bastion server last week to 49k today, that is over a 50% drop

combine that with the extreme ease of stim crafting and the elimination of its profitability one could ask if the devs are wanting to kill the player market so that the only things that sell for a profit are the furniture items from the cartel, just a theory but honestly there is no evidence to the contrary

I personally make most of my credits through crafting, I had 12 55s at 3.0 and networking their trading skills for credits is one of the best ways to make it in star wars. And thats how it should be, I put the time in to get those characters up and Ive been playing since launch so I and every player who has put in the time and money investment into this game deserve to make alot of credits through the gtn....but its broke

I love this expansion so far but one of the hallmark pillars of the mmo experience is player economy, players crafting buying and selling items to stimulate a virtual market place. In all honesty I think they just added afew things and didnt think much of it but the fact remains if this kindof drop off in prices happened in the real world most of us would be in our crazy uncles bunker waiting for NUKULAR WURFAR to take place lol.

so Im guessing that the devs

A)didnt think this through
B)are trying to bring the economy down to get players to use dollars instead of credits
C)want to make prices more affordable for noobies so they can gear out with a weeks worth of dailies

Again I love star wars but Devs you need to repair this aspect of the game and fast

thanks for reading
Oked@the bastion

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
01.17.2015 , 08:58 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
Pfft, child.
Dat logic.
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psandak's Avatar


psandak
01.17.2015 , 09:55 AM | #110
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