First let me say I just started Ch. 10 so if any of this is further explained later, please just say that and I will be patient and return afterward. I am hoping for some clarification on what we know and what is speculation in terms of the emperor and his story.

I have asked two places, one in my guild, and only one guildmate agreed with me and said it was a plothole, another I only got 1 responder and he took a completely different approach. I will copy+paste my questions, and his responses so I can get some clarification on whether he is right, or what the actual situation is. I think a few of his statements are off-base but maybe I missed things/clues in the dialogues.

what is with the dichotomous attitudes of Valkorion? Is it just a plothole?

Also is Valkorion's original body the one seen as the emperor of Zakuul?

And why did they change voice actors? (His incorporeal form in SOR should have remained the same for consistencies sake)

First response: "Valkorian was a self absorbed ruler who paid no attention to his kids. When he met Senya he was acting as himself. Just as Senya said. His attitude chaged when the kids were born. I imagine The "Emperor" took over Valkorian after that. Vitiate was actually training Thexan and Arkaan. When Arkaan killed Thexan, it was a "survival of the fittest" moment.."

My follow-up: I really don't understand what you're saying. Let me start by saying I'm only on Ch. 10 so if more is explained later please let me know and Ill finish the rest before asking more questions.

But my understanding is that Valkorion/Vitiate are the same person, and are both the emperor. And along that line of reasoning the emperor had a family moving in Zakuul and was splitting time between there and the republic/empire space. Its just that this emperor (the one we are assuming was back and forth between both societies) was a good ruler to Zakuul, and completely evil and life-force sucking/universe threatening on Yavin4moon and Ziost. A completely different set of motives and actions (not to mention voice)

Then we finally meet him as the outlander and He acts as though he has had some great epiphany (to explain the change) but it doesn't explain why he was a certain way in zakuul but completely different in sith/pub space.

2nd response: "Yes. Valkorian was a normal person. Possibly not even force sensitive. kind, caring, etc. Senya caught his eye. They fell in love, etc. Valkorian & Snya had Thexan, Arkaan & Vaylan. Vitiate (The Emperor) saw that they were force sensitive at an early age.(possibly due to Senya's genetics) He then posessed Vakorian, raised/trained the kids. Senya left, Vailen resented it. The whole Thexan/Arkaan thing happened. The Outlander kills Valkorian/Vitiate.

Vitiate was splitting time between the Ziost thing and Wild Space thing. When Ziost was destroyed he focused full time on the Zakuul stuff.

Revan was released and the FPs happened. SOR was Revan trying to stop Vitiate. But his madness was in control of his "Jedi" side. Vitiate was just there to take credit for what Revan had done.

The reason Vitiate/Valkorian sounds different from SOR was because he was speaking through Valkorian. He was NOT speaking through Revan. When we hear him at the end of SOR, he was speaking in his own voice."

My follow-up: Why would he have to speak "through" valkorion, when the outlander knows it is the emperor at that point? His motives and attitude still dont fit.

Also when is it explained that "Valkorian was a normal person"?

3rd response: In Senya's speech in one of the chapters. if you're in Chapt 10, it may be in one of the later chapters

My follow-up: I did have a conversation with her before returning to Zakuul where she implied he was a decent man but nothing about being normal/ non-force sensitive, but maybe there is a later one

4th response: Him being non-force sensitive is speculation on my part. We never saw Valkorian pre-posession.

But my understanding is that Valkorion/Vitiate are the same person, and are both the emperor.

No explanation in 10-16 whatsoever, so let's theorize:

If you are familiar with D&D deities, that's what I assume applies here as well. Once a being no longer requires a physical body and exceeds a certain power level (gained by worship, sacrifices or absorbing other deities) it can split its essence into independent avatars, that sometimes even go rogue and act against the main entity.

So what I think is that Valkorion is a stray aspect ("voice") of Vitiate, that was separated from the main entity 300 years ago, when Revan intervened. Since then it acted on its own, shaping a better empire with an emperor that people could love, rather than fear. Thus he is the same person as Vitiate, yet isn't.

The thing that ate Ziost is either still out there or ascended further into pure mindless force energy that then was drawn to and absorbed by Valkorion.

What we killed in chapter 1 was just the host body of Valkorion, just like the Knight and Warrior kill host bodies of Vitiate in the class stories. And just like before the entity slipped into a new body, but since there was no proper preparation (like destroying the body's original consciousness) he ended up as a guest in your mind with you still in control.

Interesting. So there is no known explanation for the most part then, its different theories?

Well, I suppose you could say that.

Interesting. So there is no known explanation for the most part then, its different theories?

More or less. There's nothing after 9 that's really an eye-opener, so far. Probably in KOTET they're going to address this somehow, whether with a grand reveal that blows everyone's minds, or some creative Lampshade Hanging followed by an innocent whistle and moving on.

More or less. There's nothing after 9 that's really an eye-opener, so far. Probably in KOTET they're going to address this somehow, whether with a grand reveal that blows everyone's minds, or some creative Lampshade Hanging followed by an innocent whistle and moving on.

Or nothing will happen. How long can they remix this?

"You're part of my great plan for something greater!"

"What plan?"

"A great one! You will not understand"

"What specifically is your goal?"

"... there are imporant matters I must attend to right now!"

It's beyond tired at this point and feels more like covering up lack of any actual narrative idea for Vitiate/Valkorion's character rather than setting up the sateg for any grand reveal.

"You're part of my great plan for something greater!"

"What plan?"

"A great one! You will not understand"

"What specifically is your goal?"

"... there are imporant matters I must attend to right now!"

Bit of a big "if", given that even the best writer on the team has been dropping cool plot nuggets in favor of THE POWER OF THE FORCE since launch. RIP the cool things that could have been done with the Jadus-alikes who showed up for all of one scene early in the Agent plot and were promptly forgotten.

No explanation in 10-16 whatsoever, so let's theorize:

 

If you are familiar with D&D deities, that's what I assume applies here as well. Once a being no longer requires a physical body and exceeds a certain power level (gained by worship, sacrifices or absorbing other deities) it can split its essence into independent avatars, that sometimes even go rogue and act against the main entity.

 

So what I think is that Valkorion is a stray aspect ("voice") of Vitiate, that was separated from the main entity 300 years ago, when Revan intervened. Since then it acted on its own, shaping a better empire with an emperor that people could love, rather than fear. Thus he is the same person as Vitiate, yet isn't.

 

The thing that ate Ziost is either still out there or ascended further into pure mindless force energy that then was drawn to and absorbed by Valkorion.

 

What we killed in chapter 1 was just the host body of Valkorion, just like the Knight and Warrior kill host bodies of Vitiate in the class stories. And just like before the entity slipped into a new body, but since there was no proper preparation (like destroying the body's original consciousness) he ended up as a guest in your mind with you still in control.

So.....Vitiate has Multiple Personality Disorder?

If they're clever, they can use those to their advantage and declare that Mr. V was stalling for time while he tried to make a new plan after getting shanked.

It's why I'm just so tired of this underwritten yet overpowered character. The story wastes tons of screen time on it, first in 2 major class stories, then in SOR, Ziost, KOTFE, KOTET etc and despite that nothing interesting has been said about Vitiate/Valkorion's character. Countles evil plans, schemes, host bodies/voices etc don't count as personality or character developement.

But it doesn't make any sense. After Ziost, he doesn't need any host body at all. He's in Outlander's mind 'cause he feels like it, just like he feels like leaving in Chapter 12. He allowed Arcann to take over the Zakuul Empire. So he had to have some plan/goal/roadmap already what he was aiming for when returning to Zakuul and letting Arcann. Yet at the same time, it feels like the writers didnt actually came up with this plan yet and they're stalling for time lol.

 

It's why I'm just so tired of this underwritten yet overpowered character. The story wastes tons of screen time on it, first in 2 major class stories, then in SOR, Ziost, KOTFE, KOTET etc and despite that nothing interesting has been said about Vitiate/Valkorion's character. Countles evil plans, schemes, host bodies/voices etc don't count as personality or character developement.

He's not in the Outlander's mind. He's visiting/knocking on the door. The only time someone mentions he's there, is when V is actively talking to you. At every other point multiple npcs are telling you that they sense nothing else (including brainscans by droids). Lana and Heskel both only "see" a glimpse of V, and in both cases, only during that exact moment V's whispering away with his seductive power offerings.

At a guess, he's incorporeal and bounding about the galaxy. That whole "son of a gun, that twerp blindsided me" laugh when you shanked him is pretty much the whole "well, the game's afoot!" phase of being... bored. So, he's up to challenging himself, kinda like doing a leveling grind without gear for us. This is a stage of "well, nothing better to do, so, let's see..." kind of stage.

Ziost changed something, removed some sort of challenge V didn't think he would be able to get around. He was also in the end-game building up Zakuul for an attack on the rest of the galaxy... only for one of the kids to snag it. So, he's playing a game with "well, I could just smash away, but let's see how this plays out."

In other words, far too overpowered. He's going to be something nasty at some level... I figure something like Sephiroth's One Winged Angel form is at play in a raid in the near future. Not certain that would tie off the story, but... he's just playing at being a smoke monster at the moment.

First let me say I just started Ch. 10 so if any of this is further explained later, please just say that and I will be patient and return afterward. I am hoping for some clarification on what we know and what is speculation in terms of the emperor and his story.

 

I have asked two places, one in my guild, and only one guildmate agreed with me and said it was a plothole, another I only got 1 responder and he took a completely different approach. I will copy+paste my questions, and his responses so I can get some clarification on whether he is right, or what the actual situation is. I think a few of his statements are off-base but maybe I missed things/clues in the dialogues.

 

what is with the dichotomous attitudes of Valkorion? Is it just a plothole?

 

 

Also is Valkorion's original body the one seen as the emperor of Zakuul?

 

In her address to the Galactic Republic, Supreme Chancellor Leontyne Saresh mourned the loss of life, vowing to "stop the mad Sith Emperor at any cost." Similarly, word has filtered through the Sith Empire that the Dark Council is actively hunting their former Emperor while also working with renowned Sith alchemists on a plan to destroy the one they call Vitiate for good.

 

 

]

Its a giant plot hole. In fact, its a massive rift they really don't explain. If you read the entries on Zakuulan Wealth

in your Codex a bunch of player theories are debunked.

Valkorion is an ancient Sith entity with the power to possess and control the bodies of others, using them as puppets to enforce his will on the galaxy. -Codex.

A past shrouded in secrets. A future clouded by uncertainty. It was believed that the once-and-former Sith Emperor sought to consume all life in the galaxy to grant him the dark power required to attain immortality... but is that still the case? Was it ever? Did he actually have another plan all along?

The man now called Vitiate by those who once served him was not strong enough to usurp all life on Yavin 4 after his reawakening. However, he did gain power enough to flee the jungle moon and survive. Now that he has found in Ziost a suitable target to replenish himself--now that he appears to grow more powerful by the hour--what now? When will his unforgiving depletion of Ziost end? And when it does end, what fate will befall the rest of the galaxy? -Vitiate Codex

Death of a World

Global cataclysms are not unheard of. Whole worlds teeming with life have been rendered lifeless by meteorites, broken apart by instability in the planet's own core--even atomized by the destructive force of a supernova. But the eerie calm of a world stripped of life yet left otherwise intact is another matter altogether. Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.

The Eternal Throne

The Eternal Throne sits at the top of a starscraper in the center of the Spire. Built by Valkorion over a century ago, the throne not only serves as the Immortal Emperor's seat of power, but is the key to activating and controlling the Eternal Fleet. Valkorion gathered the greatest minds in Zakuul for its construction, which took generations to complete. How and why the fleet responds only to the throne remains a mystery even to the Zakuulan people--only Valkorion and his children know the true answer. -Codex

"To bring a society from oppressive tribalism into a glorious golden era requires significant funding. When Emperor Valkorion began his project, he funneled wealth from the Sith Empire into Zakuul, effectively robbing one empire to fund another. As Valkorion's grand society blossomed, the Eternal Empire turned its view outward, conquering planets and claiming their resources.

Infants of all species taken before the Sith Emperor, the children are infused with the Emperor's strength, sharing some measure of his thoughts and power for the rest of their lives. They become the Emperor's eyes and ears, and--should the Emperor focus his presence upon them--his puppets. -Children of the Emperor Codex

Every decision the Sith Emperor has made for the last millennium has been in the service of one dark goal: the complete annihilation of every living thing in the galaxy. The Emperor's desire is not destruction for its own sake, however. He is not a nihilist. The Emperor intends to feed on the galaxy's extinction and draw that energy into himself, giving him true immortality--and a godlike mastery of the Force. -The Emperor's Plan (Knight) Codex

In another time, it might have been cause for celebration. It might have emboldened the Empire, breathing new life into their efforts to crush the Republic. But with the Sith Emperor's apparent reawakening comes the common knowledge that he is no longer interested in ruling over the galaxy. Instead, he seeks to consume it.

The Empire's highest ranking officers and dignitaries are now in a state of heightened alert, and the Dark Council has assembled a contingent of powerful Sith seers to get a fix on the Emperor's presence. When he makes his move, it is believed he will not distinguish between former friend or foe, as they will all eventually become his food and none will remain. -The Emperor's Return Codex

Before Valkorion's rise to power, Zakuul was a backwater planet in Wild Space with almost no contact with the rest of the galaxy. Forced to settle in bogs and swamps, early Zakuulans were a superstitious, nihilistic people who worshipped a pantheon of ruthless gods. These deities expressed their power through the pain and suffering of their followers. The pantheon's father was Izax, the god of death and the Ultimate Devourer. The ancient Zakuulans believed their fate was tied to the will of the gods and belonged to Izax. Those who challenged this view were considered demons. While most Demons were outcasts and expelled from society, a prophecy emerged claiming that one would climb beyond Izax's reach--an immortal god of gods who would topple the pantheon and usher in a new age for Zakuul. Claiming to be the Demon Savior of prophecy, Valkorion began his campaign against the Old Ways.

The Voice of the Emperor (Warrior)

For centuries, the Emperor's Voice has delivered the Sith leader's commandments to his servants. In fact, to converse with the Emperor's Voice is to have an audience with the Emperor himself, whose power and consciousness have been placed within the Voice's body.

Although the audible voice never changes, the physical individual who does the speaking has assumed many forms--various accounts describe the Emperor's Voice as anyone from a young human female to an elderly full-blooded Sith male. Regardless of physical appearance, however, the Emperor's Voice can always be identified by its emotionless, precise and controlled manner of speaking. Some have privately described conversations with this entity as extremely disturbing; there is often the sense that the Emperor's Voice is listening to another conversation even when he or she is speaking. -Codex

So I'm a little at a loss to explain the entire shifting of Valkorian and Vitiate from the Codex and descriptions around events and timeline of the galaxy.

What bothers me is for a group that wants to be all about the story, you'd think they would take the time and effort it takes to write something that isn't full of inconsistencies. Maybe update things. Take the time to explain the galaxy so that people are not confused about the main antagonist in the story/plot.

So he hated the Sith Empire over 100 years prior to our current date? That is prior to the invasion. He was funding war from the Sith Empire? That he is acting in complete different manners bothers you? Duh? It should because its like they took a completely different person and said. Same guy. When you point out this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense you will get the classic. Wait... More to come...

It doesn't even work when they write the codex history. And they write it. How do you expect a participant/reader to take this? I mean come on.

Plaga... That is an epic post, man. The self-contradictions in their own story are all right there in the codex.

I mean yeah, eventually they might explain everything. But to expect people to be completely confused by the main 'antagonist' for a year or more is just ridiculous. Much of what they say makes absolutely no sense and much of it is, as I say and as you pointed out, self-contradictory.

One of my favorites is the claim that Zakuul is some kind of utopia where the people are basically free of want and all their needs are met... this is stated in multiple places and in the codex. And yet... there are missions in KOFTE where you go to the underworld of Zakuul and clearly encounter homelessness, want, need, and poverty. So their own story in the missions contradicts their own entry in the codex.

Ultimately it is simply not narratively believable, even in a universe like Star Wars where one expects to suspend lots of disbelief, that the same guy who destroyed entire planets to achieve selfish aims (immortality) was simultaneously able to rule benevolently over a Utopian empire. It's like saying Adolf Hitler could both rule Nazi Germany like he did, but yet also be Winston Churchill or FDR at the same time. Nobody capable of what Hitler was capable of doing would be able to pretend at being a Churchillian or Rooseveltian figure for very long, and certainly not for centuries. His true nature would have to come out eventually.

Thank you for those two posts, ultimately confirming what I thought was happening, but was hoping was not the case and I had missed something.

Shame on Bioware for allowing this and not rectifying it in the immediate future.

Thank you for those two posts, ultimately confirming what I thought was happening, but was hoping was not the case and I had missed something.

No. You have not missed anything. The people who like the story will insist that it all makes good sense, everything fits just fine, and those of us who say it's confusing must just be cognitively impaired. But I think a lot of them are either not reading the story carefully and just 'going with it' thus ignoring plot holes -- or should I say plot-grand-canyons -- or else they have made up a bunch of head-canon that makes it all work in their own minds.

That's why I like the post above quoting the actual text of the codex, which is self-evidently self-contradictory.

So... it's not you (or me). It's Bioware. They either (1) made up a story that makes no logical sense (probable) or else (2) made up a story that does make good sense but they have presented it badly (possible, but less likely than option 1).

My guess is that option 1 is correct, the story looks like a mess because it *is* a mess. Most probably because to put a chapter out a month, they had to have different people working on different chapters and the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing.

After reviewing the timeline again I think Vitiate changed his goals/plan/persona a very long time ago. Perhaps around the time he led the Sith back to Dromund Kaas. It would seem originally he planned to continue his conquest for immortality, after his ritual on Nathema. The voices, hands, children all crude devices to achieve such things. But I think he realized around the time they found Dromund Kaas the Sith ideology, and culture would never allow him to achieve his goals. All the infighting between the Sith and that the Sith feared his power but were jealous of it much like Arcann, he knew it would never give him the type of control he wanted unlike the Knights of Zakuul who worship him like a god.

So he left them to find Zakuul a society with a blank slate where he could be seen as a god with his near immortality. He destroyed their panthenom of gods, and uplifted them from being nomadic tribes of people. Notice how Valkorian has been around for thousands of years and when we see him in the "Sacrifice" trailer he looks quite young. Something happened to make him start aging again. And I wonder if the whole Ziost thing was to stop that from continuing. But the destruction of Ziost wasn't the same as Nathema, it was a bit different from what how Scourge explained it in the Revan novel. Something happened during that time that we may have missed during the chaos. We also need to realize something happened on Voss, it's easy to miss on the SW story but part of his pysche and his voice was trapped there by an entity. We are never given a clear reason what exactly happened with him and Sel Makor but it was enough to cause concern for him and I bet is as important as what happened on Zoist.

Before I speculate on that, I want to return to why Vitiate seems so different from Valkorian. The Sith Empire was useful and a means to an end for him, so he had to continue on acting in a way that the Sith would do what his voices/hands/children would do. All the while he was building up Zakuul. But as he says in chapter 2, "our flesh is not who we are". Seyna talks about a similar concept later that when she is a knight of Zakuul she is a knight and she is her when she is not. This explains why he was able to fall in love and be distracted at times. Most of the time when the SW, JC (through his "children") and the JK interact with Vitiate in the vanilla story those characters are just starting out, they are just random people to him, but as their story plays out they start to shape the galaxy, despite his influence and not because of it, the other classes indirectly do but obviously not in such a direct way. Back on Ziost Vitiate is constantly trying to get us off the planet, whether it is an act of mercy or respect or other plans he shows death of all things is not his only motive.

I think Vitiate/Valkorian needed to preform one last world ending ritual to finish his plans, but he didn't posses the power to do so. Perhaps being tied down by controlling voices and children all over the galaxy weakened his ability, so he resorted to his hands and cult followers to try and do it on several worlds which the Jedi Knight stopped in their class story. We have to remember that the ritual and device crazed Revan did on Yavin was created by Vitiate himself centuries before, for all we know what happened on Yavin gave him the power to do what he did on Ziost alone. With his voice being destroyed and the Empire forsaking him and now finally on Ziost completing whatever it was he had been trying to do, there was no longer a need to play the charade of being a maniac sith. Which is why he then starts his initial plan of having a hidden empire attack the known galaxy. How that plays into the Outlander is yet to be known, I get the feeling he isn't helping us along because he had a change of heart, or because he wants order in the galaxy, but we can provide a suitable way for him to be "reborn" as he hints in Chapter 2.

Darth Marr as a force ghost says this to Satele Shan in the expansion "Even when my life depended on it I did not see him properly till it was too late." If he is referring to his death in the Eternal Throne Room, what does this suggest? How is Valkorian just like our player character? In the way our player character is a Jed, Sith, Smuggler, ect. during their main story but time and circumstances changes them to be more or different, yet still the same character. Vitiate may be a Darth's title, but his name is Valkorian?

"Being a Knight means everything. But I don't let it define me." - Senya

After reviewing the timeline again I think Vitiate changed his goals/plan/persona a very long time ago. Perhaps around the time he led the Sith back to Dromund Kaas. It would seem originally he planned to continue his conquest for immortality, after his ritual on Nathema. The voices, hands, children all crude devices to achieve such things. But I think he realized around the time they found Dromund Kaas the Sith ideology, and culture would never allow him to achieve his goals. All the infighting between the Sith and that the Sith feared his power but were jealous of it much like Arcann, he knew it would never give him the type of control he wanted unlike the Knights of Zakuul who worship him like a god.

 

So he left them to find Zakuul a society with a blank slate where he could be seen as a god with his near immortality. He destroyed their panthenom of gods, and uplifted them from being nomadic tribes of people. Notice how Valkorian has been around for thousands of years and when we see him in the "Sacrifice" trailer he looks quite young. Something happened to make him start aging again. And I wonder if the whole Ziost thing was to stop that from continuing. But the destruction of Ziost wasn't the same as Nathema, it was a bit different from what how Scourge explained it in the Revan novel. Something happened during that time that we may have missed during the chaos. We also need to realize something happened on Voss, it's easy to miss on the SW story but part of his pysche and his voice was trapped there by an entity. We are never given a clear reason what exactly happened with him and Sel Makor but it was enough to cause concern for him and I bet is as important as what happened on Zoist.

 

Before I speculate on that, I want to return to why Vitiate seems so different from Valkorian. The Sith Empire was useful and a means to an end for him, so he had to continue on acting in a way that the Sith would do what his voices/hands/children would do. All the while he was building up Zakuul. But as he says in chapter 2, "our flesh is not who we are". Seyna talks about a similar concept later that when she is a knight of Zakuul she is a knight and she is her when she is not. This explains why he was able to fall in love and be distracted at times. Most of the time when the SW, JC (through his "children") and the JK interact with Vitiate in the vanilla story those characters are just starting out, they are just random people to him, but as their story plays out they start to shape the galaxy, despite his influence and not because of it, the other classes indirectly do but obviously not in such a direct way. Back on Ziost Vitiate is constantly trying to get us off the planet, whether it is an act of mercy or respect or other plans he shows death of all things is not his only motive.

 

I think Vitiate/Valkorian needed to preform one last world ending ritual to finish his plans, but he didn't posses the power to do so. Perhaps being tied down by controlling voices and children all over the galaxy weakened his ability, so he resorted to his hands and cult followers to try and do it on several worlds which the Jedi Knight stopped in their class story. We have to remember that the ritual and device crazed Revan did on Yavin was created by Vitiate himself centuries before, for all we know what happened on Yavin gave him the power to do what he did on Ziost alone. With his voice being destroyed and the Empire forsaking him and now finally on Ziost completing whatever it was he had been trying to do, there was no longer a need to play the charade of being a maniac sith. Which is why he then starts his initial plan of having a hidden empire attack the known galaxy. How that plays into the Outlander is yet to be known, I get the feeling he isn't helping us along because he had a change of heart, or because he wants order in the galaxy, but we can provide a suitable way for him to be "reborn" as he hints in Chapter 2.

 

Darth Marr as a force ghost says this to Satele Shan in the expansion "Even when my life depended on it I did not see him properly till it was too late." If he is referring to his death in the Eternal Throne Room, what does this suggest? How is Valkorian just like our player character? In the way our player character is a Jed, Sith, Smuggler, ect. during their main story but time and circumstances changes them to be more or different, yet still the same character. Vitiate may be a Darth's title, but his name is Valkorian?

 

"Being a Knight means everything. But I don't let it define me." - Senya

You have utterly failed again to explain how in the codex the timelines of the two do not correspond and are attempting to self rationalize something that isn't explained in the text of the story. This is the behavior of someone reading things that are not in the text of the story to attempt to make sense of plot that doesn't work as a story.

He's building for the revenge of the Sith against the Republic, while at the same time constructing an alternate empire, funneling money from the Sith Empire he's disappointed in over centuries. The reason is the failure of that empire before it even invades? Then he fails in love and has kids whose aging process in normal, while his as eternal emperor is centuries old and appears to be the same bodily form. He's trapped and not trapped. He's spent over 100 years on Zakuul or he's a spirit who was trapped on Yavin. When you start asking how he's able to co-exist in two places they are not explained.

Its very simple. Vitiate and Valkorian can be "declared" to be the same person. A rationale exists they are using that internally to the writer works as a plot device. It doesn't mean anyone outside that room of writer(s) can reasonably agree that connective story thread actually holds up to any sort of mental scrutiny.

The problem is very apparent to start the story for numerous classes whoever played the game. There is not enough interwoven back story that places the 2 people together as one person given all the intricate history that exists around the Sith Emperor/Vitiate. Its poorly executed writing that can be improved. They've gotten this feedback since day 1 of KOTFE from a wide range of players. They know how to improve it. Codex entries or story can clarify some of the issues.

Disney is much looser than Lucas was on this sort of property. The writing was important to Lucas as was the historical accuracy of star wars to the fan, to an extent. The EU gets a little crazy, but generally Lucas wanted a consistent universe without alternatives like say a Marvel uses to justify odd things its writers do that don't mesh with historical context.

I would like to see more care taken with the history and a focus on shoring up plot. If your all about story then the writing needs to be very well constructed, reviewed and uniform.

Knight story chapter 3 spoiler

The emperor states when he reaches godhead he will live many lives, a farmer, a husband, and so forth. Zakuul was his first experiment with that. He rules and creates one empire through fear and betrayal. Sees that it is flawed. Creates another better empire. Then pits empire and republic against each other to weaken both so Zakuul can then come and finish them both off.

He is not changed for the better. He is simply trying to evolve passed what he knows is a limited jedi / sith philosophy.

Knight story chapter 3 spoiler

 

 

 

 

The emperor states when he reaches godhead he will live many lives, a farmer, a husband, and so forth. Zakuul was his first experiment with that. He rules and creates one empire through fear and betrayal. Sees that it is flawed. Creates another better empire. Then pits empire and republic against each other to weaken both so Zakuul can then come and finish them both off.

 

He is not changed for the better. He is simply trying to evolve passed what he knows is a limited jedi / sith philosophy.

When did he determine the Sith Empire was "flawed"? According to the codex it was prior to his Empire's return to the galaxy and invasion. It took over 100 years to construct the throne. Let alone the time to obtain god status on Zakuul. Or find and build the Eternal Fleet.

How do you reconcile the "Childern of the Emperor" against Vitiate and Valkorian? So the Emperor required hosts. In the story he is declared "dead". His spirit vanquished. Only it really wasn't he was spiritually able to return from that death by consuming all life on Ziost and then fleeing.

Now we go encounter him as Valkorian. Only to learn that he's been Valkorian for more than 1 lifetime. So he consumed all life on Ziost because he was just a general dick? Oh, he isn't darkside though right? He's found love on Zakuul. He's learned about both sides of the force.

So what was Yavin and Ziost about? Because it makes no sense that if he wasn't spiritually trapped without a host that he needed some sith ritual to return to his Valkorian host. If that is a host. Who knows at this point because the story doesn't at all articulate how these two very different entities in conversation with your character are the same.

When you speak with Viatiate through hosts his dialogue clearly shows he's hell bent on destroying the galaxy. If he's Valkorian at the same time this doesn't make sense as his motives don't work together. So you come off playing yavin, then Ziost and then you enter the outlander missions.

Its very confusing at best to the participant in the story to understand. Let alone the rationale for having real childern of this version of the Emperor. So Valkorian is how old exactly? What is up with the aging of the kids compared to that? If this is the true sith Emperor he moved here while he was still constructing the sith empires formation. Meaning he did that through a host? Was he commuting? I mean come on.

At some point they have to do a better job of explaining this other than. They said he's the same guy just go with it. That is your argument. Frankly, that is not even a codex entry or dialogue you posted. So its hyperpole mixed with some slice of story to make you feel better about the story. Again reading things not actually found in the story.

When did he determine the Sith Empire was "flawed"? According to the codex it was prior to his Empire's return to the galaxy and invasion. It took over 100 years to construct the throne. Let alone the time to obtain god status on Zakuul. Or find and build the Eternal Fleet.

 

How do you reconcile the "Childern of the Emperor" against Vitiate and Valkorian? So the Emperor required hosts. In the story he is declared "dead". His spirit vanquished. Only it really wasn't he was spiritually able to return from that death by consuming all life on Ziost and then fleeing.

 

Now we go encounter him as Valkorian. Only to learn that he's been Valkorian for more than 1 lifetime. So he consumed all life on Ziost because he was just a general dick? Oh, he isn't darkside though right? He's found love on Zakuul. He's learned about both sides of the force.

 

So what was Yavin and Ziost about? Because it makes no sense that if he wasn't spiritually trapped without a host that he needed some sith ritual to return to his Valkorian host. If that is a host. Who knows at this point because the story doesn't at all articulate how these two very different entities in conversation with your character are the same.

 

When you speak with Viatiate through hosts his dialogue clearly shows he's hell bent on destroying the galaxy. If he's Valkorian at the same time this doesn't make sense as his motives don't work together. So you come off playing yavin, then Ziost and then you enter the outlander missions.

 

Its very confusing at best to the participant in the story to understand. Let alone the rationale for having real childern of this version of the Emperor. So Valkorian is how old exactly? What is up with the aging of the kids compared to that? If this is the true sith Emperor he moved here while he was still constructing the sith empires formation. Meaning he did that through a host? Was he commuting? I mean come on.

 

At some point they have to do a better job of explaining this other than. They said he's the same guy just go with it. That is your argument. Frankly, that is not even a codex entry or dialogue you posted. So its hyperpole mixed with some slice of story to make you feel better about the story. Again reading things not actually found in the story.

First of all dial it down bro. I am not saying its perfect. I do not have all the answers. None of us do. Just weighing in on opinion.

What I am saying, is that from my point of view, in the classic story, it is mentioned several times that the emperor has been silent throughout the centuries. Every freaking major sith says it practically. In fact from what I remember the last order he even gave the dark council was to end the war against the jedi.

It "CAN" be argued that during this time he was concentrating his efforts on Zakuul. Maybe at some time during his reign he realized the that the republic is easily corrupted, the empire was always fighting each other, and because of this he just decided to hell with both. And thats why he began creating Zakuul. As a back up.

If his efforts to devour the galaxy did not pay off he would have made enemies of his own people. He would need a safe harbor to try again. A place that would never turn against him. Zakuul.

Now as for his kids. During KOTFE it is mentioned that at times he seemed like his mind was elsewhere. That he just went silent . Seem familiar? He was expending his efforts on preparing to devour the galaxy. His children were an afterthought. I mean come on its not like a mass murdering sith who had a messed up family him self growing up is going to be a great father. No wonder his kids are messed up. Now as for his plans for the Outlander... I have no idea. Like i said im just guessing. And I wish they would make things clearer too.

Anyway this is just all my opinions on what I have seen so far.

There is not much beyond chapter 10 anyways even if there was not a restriction on up to chapter 9.

Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion/other names.

A currently incorporeal being of force energy whose sole purpose is to find power, keep it and continue learning.

His level of thinking goes beyond a typical confined life form, connected to the force or not. The level of understanding he possesses is unknown as it could be vast or it could be a facade, in either case he has possessed a new body but not yet taken control of it and he can very well do so if he wishes to, yet he respects his new vessel enough not to just grab control when he feels like it. Ziost was the clearest indication of how far his power goes, he could control thousands of pawns or more, even some very powerful force users in sith lords and jedi masters, so the player character is no different in that regard.

It is clear that part of his motivation is to create a sith empire, build it up and then fling it into the galaxy in the hopes of extinguishing all life for his rituals through destructive bloody wars, it is not known if he possesses the ability to recreate life in a dead galaxy but all the same the sith empire came back into the galaxy almost a century ago and after a few years it seems he considered the sith empire a failure, with a second hand to play, it's clear that he was building up another empire in wild space during this time, denoting time between the bodies he controls, vitiate in the main galaxy and valkorion in wild space.

What little is known is that he cares little for politics, sides and motivations of those beneath him, on the contrary while he doesn't care he has shown a strong inclination to allow these plans to build up to the point he can use them to his advantage in a longer term goal.

for example; he would of known how saresh would behave, and choosing acina was meant to give the future empire an ineffective leader but one that will keep attacking saresh, as almost as if he knew how acina worked and knew how saresh would behave by being a power hungry hypocrite with a sithaphobia chip on her shoulder. so by getting them to fight each other, they get weaker, probably in the hopes for his new empire to wipe them both out.

Certain people however have seen what he is for certain, it is unknown how much satele knows but considering her connection to the now dead marr, he could still pass that information through a force apparition of himself and lets not forget the hand servants.

Really only finding out glimpses into the mind of a being like this...

The part I've never quite understood is the timeline of the kids. Obviously they are not that old, so they must have been born only a couple decades prior to their rampage across the galaxy. Which would mean there was a lot of empire-ruling time in which Valkorion didn't have Senya in his life as a lover.

I looked up the timeline on TOR Community and according to it, the peace treaty was signed roughly 16 years prior to the KOTFE prelude. I remember something about Revan being in Vitiate's mind and getting him to push for the treaty (dunno if that's true or not). But it could be Revan's presence also pushed Vitiate to find love and he did, in one of his bodies, Valkorion. So shortly before the treaty is when he got together with Senya and she got pregnant with the twins. If the twins were born around when the peace treaty was signed, that would make them roughly 16 when they do their galactic rampage, which isn't impossible to believe, given how they were raised and trained for battle. Interestingly, it would also make Arcann and Vaylin's immaturity more understandable, since they'd be about 21 and 20, if Vaylin was born a year after the twins.

It would also make sense with Valkorion being distant as a father, considering that all of that CotE and Cold War stuff was raging on in the core worlds.

See, here is the problem. Look at the walls of text that have to be posted to attempt to explain what the heck is going on with V-man. This proves one thing: It's too complicated.

Look at the Darth Vader story: He was a Jedi Knight who started training too late, after he formed attachments. As a result, he let his passions get the better of him, turned to the Dark Side, and destroyed the Jedi. Two sentences. Simple, easy to understand. Ben Kenobi was able to explain it ("from a certain point of view") to a 100% naive audience in 1 minute of screen time back in 1977. Bam. Done.

You could NOT explain what the freaking heck is going on with Vit/Valk to a naive audience if you had an entire movie to do it. How do I know? Because if you add up all the hours playing KOTFE and doing the story, it probably would just about equal the running time of a (long) movie, and we are here on the forum with threads upon threads and pages upon pages of people trying to figure out and explain what the freaking heck is going on in this story. That means it is too complicated. Even if deep down under all the bull-crap it turns out there there is something that makes a certain kind of sense, it doesn't matter at that point, because it's too darn complicated and people have already stopped caring.

Multiple bodies... absorbing life forces... dying and not really being dead... being in two or more places at once. It is all just too complicated and completely unnecessary. Why not just make Valkarion be a NEW enemy? We could have fought him for the first story (KOTFE), killed him at the end, and then had him invade our minds and try to convince us to work with him in KOTET. Hell he could even be the Emperor's not-quite-as-evil younger brother. ANYTHING but what they did would have been less complicated.

They needed to create a villain they could explain in a couple of sentences. By failing to do this they completely hosed their entire story.

The part I've never quite understood is the timeline of the kids. Obviously they are not that old, so they must have been born only a couple decades prior to their rampage across the galaxy. Which would mean there was a lot of empire-ruling time in which Valkorion didn't have Senya in his life as a lover.

 

I looked up the timeline on TOR Community and according to it, the peace treaty was signed roughly 16 years prior to the KOTFE prelude. I remember something about Revan being in Vitiate's mind and getting him to push for the treaty (dunno if that's true or not). But it could be Revan's presence also pushed Vitiate to find love and he did, in one of his bodies, Valkorion. So shortly before the treaty is when he got together with Senya and she got pregnant with the twins. If the twins were born around when the peace treaty was signed, that would make them roughly 16 when they do their galactic rampage, which isn't impossible to believe, given how they were raised and trained for battle. Interestingly, it would also make Arcann and Vaylin's immaturity more understandable, since they'd be about 21 and 20, if Vaylin was born a year after the twins.

 

It would also make sense with Valkorion being distant as a father, considering that all of that CotE and Cold War stuff was raging on in the core worlds.

Revan got Vitiate to sign the peace treaty? Then he said, I alone can kill the Emperor had a spiritual breakup. Tried to resurrect Vitiate's spirit to kill it. Then found peace again and floated away to find Vitiate who was actually Valkorian the whole time? Again I don't see any of that in the text on Revan. Which is back to the entire point of people backfilling story to make some sense of the entire plot.

So he was raising his kids, found love and was getting a lot more spiritual. Then remembered oh yea I need to destroy all life in the galaxy so he destroyed Ziost after attempting the same thing on Yavin. However, that wasn't for the reasons he stated. It was actually so he could return to Zakuul and let his idiot son kill him so he could have a force rape on our outlander spirit, so that we could somehow get rid of his 2 kids, which he's not really clear on what that means. I need you to kill my son and daughter, because of love. With some hidden agenda against our force spirit.

See I spent all this time building Zakuul for no apparent reason. Galactic conquest? Oh no. I wasn't into that because you know, love. Then I was like cool, cool. Oh my son is here with the Outlander guy whose being f'ing with my plans in a variety of ways. As the Jedi Knight I know him really well. This being of immense insane power. Watches you walk up to him and know wants you to help him with these brats he fathered. Then lectures you on using the force. Who then they take Satele Shan, whose so devote a Jedi she gives up her own child to be a jedi and says. Yeah, she changed her mind and you should too! This Zakuul thing was a game freaking changer. She lost all faith because of it. She's now besties with Darth Marr, whose also gone from supreme Sith guy to I was wrong and everything I fought and died for is stupid. I am a huge fan of this game and the story. I love me some star wars. This kotfe story is terrible. If you like it fine, but I am

Its a walking contradiction of a story with no theme or plot. If you can find one in this mess you feel free to clarify all of this nonsense of us, because I am unable to piece this thing together.

Revan got Vitiate to sign the peace treaty?

*shrug* Thought I read that somewhere. Maybe it was just somebody speculating.

Then he said, I alone can kill the Emperor had a spiritual breakup. Tried to resurrect Vitiate's spirit to kill it. Then found peace again and floated away to find Vitiate who was actually Valkorian the whole time? Again I don't see any of that in the text on Revan. Which is back to the entire point of people backfilling story to make some sense of the entire plot.

Well, I don't think Revan's actions need to make perfect sense. He was clearly driven insane by the emperor and became obsessed to the point of lunacy.

So he was raising his kids, found love and was getting a lot more spiritual. Then remembered oh yea I need to destroy all life in the galaxy so he destroyed Ziost after attempting the same thing on Yavin. However, that wasn't for the reasons he stated. It was actually so he could return to Zakuul and let his idiot son kill him so he could have a force rape on our outlander spirit, so that we could somehow get rid of his 2 kids, which he's not really clear on what that means. I need you to kill my son and daughter, because of love. With some hidden agenda against our force spirit.

 

See I spent all this time building Zakuul for no apparent reason. Galactic conquest? Oh no. I wasn't into that because you know, love. Then I was like cool, cool. Oh my son is here with the Outlander guy whose being f'ing with my plans in a variety of ways. As the Jedi Knight I know him really well. This being of immense insane power. Watches you walk up to him and know wants you to help him with these brats he fathered. Then lectures you on using the force. Who then they take Satele Shan, whose so devote a Jedi she gives up her own child to be a jedi and says. Yeah, she changed her mind and you should too! This Zakuul thing was a game freaking changer. She lost all faith because of it. She's now besties with Darth Marr, whose also gone from supreme Sith guy to I was wrong and everything I fought and died for is stupid. I am a huge fan of this game and the story. I love me some star wars. This kotfe story is terrible. If you like it fine, but I am

 

Its a walking contradiction of a story with no theme or plot. If you can find one in this mess you feel free to clarify all of this nonsense of us, because I am unable to piece this thing together.

Lol, I agree it sounds like a load of nonsense on the surface. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the KOTFE story is terrible as a whole, myself, but I would agree that Valkorion's role is confusing.

I still find it very very odd the wording that Valkorion uses in the prelude:

PC: The sith emperor... your presence is unmistakable.

Valk: Oh, I think a mistake has been made... but by whom?

Marr: Your constant silence across our history... this was your distraction?

Valk: This was my focus. Everything else... a means to an end.

-----

Valk: You say you know me--if that is true, then you know the depths of my power. Whatever you hoped to achieve here, you know--deep inside--that you cannot succeed.

The curious part is that I don't think there's a single line in the prelude where Valkorion outright says, "Yes, you're right, I'm the sith emperor, Vitiate." It's only heavily implied and we buy into it because it's what we're expecting, not to mention the comments of his presence being familiar / the same.

And yet, I don't think Valkorion says a single word that only Vitiate could say until after the prelude, when he's in your head. And once he's in your head, he could theoretically have read your mind and pieced together who Vititate is to you, so that he can pretend to go along with the "I'm Vititate" shtick.

If you watch the throne room scene with the belief that he's not Vitiate, it looks like a powerful and manipulative sith lord using what people say to him to bend them in the direction he wants them to go. The closest he comes to indicating he knows who you are is saying, "In all my centuries, you alone have merited my full attention. You leave your mark upon the galaxy wherever you act, just as I do." But think about it, if you take away (once again) the expectation, he's tossing some pretty generic stuff your way. We buy into it because Vitiate said something similar on Ziost about attention. But he could just as easily be sensing the power in you (with no prior knowledge of who you are) and seeing an opportunity, much like how Palpatine saw potential in Anakin.

I'm inclined to think that their "out" for making the story simple is essentially to reveal that Valkorion was never Vitiate in the first place.

There's still a lot it doesn't explain on the surface. For instance, they would need to explain whether Valkorion is actually beyond death in any way, or if maybe he's simply tied to you (and pretends to leave at certain points). Or maybe he's a dark side force ghost and has no expectation of coming back in any capacity, but wants someone competent to rule his empire.

They would also need to explain what actually happened to Vitiate after Ziost... if he's still out there or what.