video game / anime logic less is more for females that is.

It's more a setting thing and less a video game/anime logic thing. And Star Wars doesn't really have it as a setting. Well, not for Troopers/Bounty Hunters anyways. Jedi can run around in almost nothing as their armor is their light saber anyways.

Female gamer here. I play all female toons except for 2. Some I dress in full armor (my trooper, for example) and others I dress in things like the Bastila Shan lore outfit, etc. Seriously, I get the impression the OP is somehow offended and affronted by sensuality. There are an absolute TON of non-skimpy outfits from cloth to armor for female toons to wear. There are but a FEW skimpy ones. Seriously, as a female gamer I am not offended by seeing the female form in sensual attire. I even play my one male toon shirtless with pants not robes. The pants, btw, are just as tight on male toons as on female ones. Stop being so overly sensitive.

I'm making no comments on the OPs reasoning as I don't know them and assumptions on the internet tend to be bad in general, but from my POV (and yeah, I'm a woman gamer too) it comes down to being restricted in the options available to me if I make female characters. I'm not being given a choice, it's either belly shirts or find something else - I don't think it's that much to ask to be given the option to have the clothing look the same on both sexes (and hey, that way people with male characters get the belly shirt/sleeveless option too - everyone wins!), most people aren't asking that the skimpy stuff be removed, just after a bit more of a level playing field when outfitting characters.

On a sidenote: Don't think it's fair to personally attack the OP for being 'overly sensitive' though, you have your view, they have theirs, I have mine (example, skimpy = different things for male & female in the whole power vs sensuality debate) and everyone else in this thread probably has their own ideas on this sort of stuff, just because that view doesn't match yours doesn't give you the right to accuse them of over reacting or make your ideas (or mine for that matter) any more valid. Also, it's kinda rude.

I now have 12 toons.

I'm trying to gear them up uniquely as much as possible but I'm running out of options, especially since I'm getting two completely separate sets (PvE and PvP) for each one, which is 24 unique sets.

What I just came to realize, though, is that there are no "shorts" options for male toons, not even covert energy greaves.

I'm really trying to get a "Mad Max" look on one and some tattered cargo shorts or at least some kind of shorts options would look awesome.

@ RepublicChicken: I am sorry you feel that your sensibilities are being abused by the existence of the Slave Girl Costume. However the Slave Girl Costume has been an integral part of the Star Wars Canon since Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, when Princess Leia appeared in the Metal Bikini. And since you brought up the fact that actual women play this game, I will in turn point you to the website Leia's Metal Bikini: Fans in Costume where a large population of images of actual women dressed up as Slave Girl Leia, are stored. Yes there are a few men, and children dressed up that way as well. But a large percentage of these images are of actual women. If real women can dress up as Slave Leia in real life... IN PUBLIC. What is preventing real women from dressing up as Slave Leia in a digital environment? I don't see the problem.

I don't even want to think about how it's possible to move around in it. Not to mention how warm it must be in there, even on regular planets. Heavy armor on Tatooine? I'd die of dehydraution in less than five minutes if I tried that for real.

Here on Earth, Astronauts actually have a Water-Circulation System that doubles as an Air Conditioning System inside of their Space Suits. In fact according to Wookiepedia, the Clone Troopers/Storm Troopers have a similar system in their Armor. So I imagine the same system could be present in Mandolorian Armor as well. That would be how people don't die of dehydration while wearing heavy armor on Tatooine.

As for moving around in that armor... the production notes for Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, actually mentions that Luke and Han Solo could barely move in their Storm Trooper Armor. In fact Luke's line about not being able to see out of the Storm Trooper Armor was an Ad Lib based on the fact that the armor really wasn't designed to be functional, and the helmet actually had a crap ton of blind spots which were actually preventing him from seeing properly.

Game engine aside, when you're strapping on a heavy suit of armor you do not want it to fit loosely. Having played a goalie in ice hockey (possibly the heaviest "armored" athlete on the planet) for about 7 years I can say that a tight fit is essential to the functioning of your gear.

THIS... So many times this.

In Medieval Europe, Full Plate Armor was actually molded to the body of the warrior who would be wearing it so heavily that they sometimes built the armor while the warrior in question was actually wearing the metal plates that would become the armor. In otherwords, the tight fit of the armor is absolutely essential to providing the best quality of protection possible.

The only exception in regards to this is in the case of Chainmail, and Scalemail Armors, which tended to be looser than Full Plate Armor because of the way they were constructed. Though in the case of Chainmail Armor, the very concept of a Chainmail Bikini is not possible while having it provide any form of protection. The reason for this is because protective Chainmail actually pulls on the body with enough weight to cause breast sag if worn by a woman. It would not be appealing in any way shape or form.

Did you even look at the picture I linked to? It's Leia from Episode 6, dressed as a bounty hunter in Jabba's palance. And know what? She isn't wearing 'baggy' or 'loose' armor, and yet it's hard to tell she's a woman. That's what I want in the game. I don't want supermodels. I want real people in real clothes.

Actually, Bounty Hunter Leia was in fact wearing a Robe (similar to what the Tusken Raiders wear) underneath some very minor amounts of heavier armoring. It would be the perfect type of heavy armor to wear for long periods of use in the deserts of Tatooine, but it isn't particularly practical when compared to the heavy armor worn by a Mandolorian or Storm Trooper.

It's quite normal body paint, yes... Clothes don't follow the breasts around like that, but tries to smoothen out as best it can.

Unfortunately getting the game engine to do what you are asking it to do is going to be nearly impossible. It would require recoding virtually the entire game. Which would be a serious undertaking. There is a reason the loincloths on most of the dancers outfits aren't as long as Slave Leia's Loincloth was, it is impractical at best to have such a loincloth and still have the game engine allow the character to perform full combat maneuvers.

What you are asking for is full flowing clothing similar to what we have in real life. Unfortunately a graphics engine like the one used for most video games just is not capable of featuring such a thing. Even in games as technologically advanced as most of the new Final Fantasy Series, the more exuberant flowing clothing is rendered on NPC's who don't have to do a ton of the fighting and who when they do fight are only in for one or two fights at a time.

You are asking for something that will inherently cause the graphics engine to cause clipping on a massive scale. I don't think I want to imagine the kinds of clipping some of the clothing you are suggesting would entail.

Basically, the King thinks women shouldn't be warriors, so he decides to not allow them to wear anything other than the standard male armor because "customizing armor for women is expensive".

That's the stupidest reasoning in the world. Customizing Armor for anyone, PERIOD is expensive. The only armor types you really don't have to customize for a person are Chainmail Shirts and Piecemail. Everything else has to be virtually form fitted to the person wearing it. So put simply, arguing not to outfit women with customized armor because it is expensive would require the same commitment to not outfit men with armor because it is likewise expensive.

That said, most Knights in the middle ages bought their own suits of full plate armor out of their families holdings or inherited a suit of armor from their family, instead of being given a customized suit of armor from their King. Yes, many suits of Plate Armor were custom fit for their original owners, but just as many were handed down through familial lines.

@ RepublicChicken: I am sorry you feel that your sensibilities are being abused by the existence of the Slave Girl Costume. However the Slave Girl Costume has been an integral part of the Star Wars Canon since Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, when Princess Leia appeared in the Metal Bikini. And since you brought up the fact that actual women play this game, I will in turn point you to the website Leia's Metal Bikini: Fans in Costume where a large population of images of actual women dressed up as Slave Girl Leia, are stored. Yes there are a few men, and children dressed up that way as well. But a large percentage of these images are of actual women. If real women can dress up as Slave Leia in real life... IN PUBLIC. What is preventing real women from dressing up as Slave Leia in a digital environment? I don't see the problem.

I won't speak for Chicken as I don't know her, however I feel I must point out a few things:

Those women choose to cosplay as Princess Leia in the outfit Jabba the Hutt put her in. Do I need to remind you that Princess Leia had been captured and stripped of her dignity when she was forced to be Jabba's decoration? The fact that Princess Leia is the only prominent female character in the Original Trilogy and that many (male) fans seem to only remember her trussed up as a Sexy Lamp also seems to be having gross influence on the production of armour in this game - the first wave of Cartel Packs, every pack had a different coloured bra-and-panties set, all female only; the main part of the game has three bra-and-panties sets, two faction exclusive, all female only. That says, rather explicitly, that only women can and should be regarded sexually, and their origins in the aforementioned Slave outfit has negative connotations with regards to the wearer - that's the greatest part of my criticism for this practice. It relies on the misogynist idea of women being sex objects.

That said, I am not against people putting their characters (or their companions) in the Slave or Dancer gear. What I want Bioware to do, is be aware of the messages this restriction is sending out (which I have mentioned above). And there is a very simple fix for that: male slave gear.

Now, the armour the presents differently for male and female characters by losing cloth is very annoy and harks back to the "only men play games, therefore female characters are sex objects" idea. Yes, it's not so prevalent in this game as others, but not being allowed the choice to show or cover skin with those armour pieces just upholds that this is a game for Straight (Cis)Male Gamer.

Look at the way romances and flirting is approached in the 1-50 content, (straight) male characters get significantly more [Flirt]s than (straight) female characters, and added to that, (s)male characters then have the choice to romance every single non-droid female companion and female characters have only one choice for each class (with the exceptions of Pierce and Tharan, but they are not fully fledged romances). And that is even when there are 16 (sixteen) male companions which fall into the "humanoid face" criteria, versus the 10 (ten!) female companions which do the same. Now that says, very clearly, that Bioware feels the only reason to have a female presence on your ships is if you can have sex with her.

I went rather off-topic of your post, but I feel that the background there is a good explanation as to why this game, though better than others, still suffers greatly with a problematic, if not misogynist, attitude towards women.

@ RepublicChicken: I am sorry you feel that your sensibilities are being abused by the existence of the Slave Girl Costume. However the Slave Girl Costume has been an integral part of the Star Wars Canon since Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, when Princess Leia appeared in the Metal Bikini. And since you brought up the fact that actual women play this game, I will in turn point you to the website Leia's Metal Bikini: Fans in Costume where a large population of images of actual women dressed up as Slave Girl Leia, are stored. Yes there are a few men, and children dressed up that way as well. But a large percentage of these images are of actual women. If real women can dress up as Slave Leia in real life... IN PUBLIC. What is preventing real women from dressing up as Slave Leia in a digital environment? I don't see the problem.

Tatile said it better, but I'd just like to add women aren't some sort of Killick-esque hive mind, just because one is comfortable enough with that character and outfit combo to cosplay it doesn't mean all women feel the same, much as I'm sure your opinions aren't representative of every other male Star Wars fan out there. Additionally the films were made in the 70s/80s when gender roles were far more rigidly defined (think Anchorman).

Again, most people aren't demanding the outfit be removed, like it or not it is part of the lore, we're just after things being a smidge more equal - that's not a bad thing is it?

Tatile said it better, but I'd just like to add women aren't some sort of Killick-esque hive mind, just because one is comfortable enough with that character and outfit combo to cosplay it doesn't mean all women feel the same

Thank you, I thought I'd covered that, but must have missed it when googling for the origins of the Sexy Lamp (it's come up a couple of times in tumblr posts, but I needed the source). I'd also like to add that, just because a woman chooses to dress one way for cosplay (be it head-to-toe or like New 52 Starfire) does not mean that's how she dresses all the time. I'm pretty sure most male cosplayers don't wear their Halo-ballerina* armour sets to Asda, so I'm not sure why men assume that of women.

*He's just doing it for the attention, I bet he doesn't even know who Master Chief is

I'm making no comments on the OPs reasoning as I don't know them and assumptions on the internet tend to be bad in general, but from my POV (and yeah, I'm a woman gamer too) it comes down to being restricted in the options available to me if I make female characters. I'm not being given a choice, it's either belly shirts or find something else - I don't think it's that much to ask to be given the option to have the clothing look the same on both sexes (and hey, that way people with male characters get the belly shirt/sleeveless option too - everyone wins!), most people aren't asking that the skimpy stuff be removed, just after a bit more of a level playing field when outfitting characters.

A level playing field? There is only one outfit I can think of which is male-specific.. What are you asking for, more non-skimpy outfits which are female-specific (there's one already)? Why? Plenty of non-skimpy, non-gender-specifc clothing looks quite "womanly," e.g., the Lifeday outfit, the Last (or Lost, I never remember) Handmaiden's outfit, Sith "skirts," the Regal mini-skirt.

So, again, more choices are good, but as it stands now, there are more choices for female characters than male characters. So if you want a level playing field, lobby for more male-specific clothing.

Since the introduction of the cartel market (and before that it wasn't all bad either) there're been a lot of options on how to gear your character, male or female. Some options are indeed extremely daring so to say, but by far not all options. All my 21 characters are female, I'm female and I've never ran into the trouble that I had to dress any of them naked. Sometimes it takes quite a search to find something original, but especially if you look at all options (so outside of the CM aswell) there're plenty. They might not be female only, but they can look feminine nonetheless. (Hoth social outfit anyone? Really cute and quite sexy, does it show any skin? No. I actually find it way more difficult to gear my male companions. Maybe because all the body-types make me want to laugh (body-type 3 is just ridicilous, body-type 2 is ok I guess and body-type 1 is hilarious, skinny and frail but sixpack anyway?) and a lot of gear doesn't suit them too well either. Tight pants, half-naked in leather, genteel dress. Honestly. If anything I find that females have a lot more options.

When it comes down to lore, quite a few characters from the comics are suprisingly naked, I can only recall Darth Talon from the top of my head though. But the undressed theme has been there before it turned into an MMO. But it doesn't mean that the non-underdressed females weren't there either. Look at Shae Vizla rocking that durasteel and still looking very feminine. Even in lore it's been a mix of both. Then so it should be ingame.

I can understand you don't want to run around a half naked player or companion as often as we all do. But I'm for people being allowed to dress how they want and as female I'm far from offended by anything they've released into the game so far (and due to the mix of relaxed 'anything' + slave girl bottoms, I think there won't be anything more underdressed.)

Some people (including myself) like games for the aspect that anything is possible, unlike real life. My little bodytype 1 Commando can run around with an assault cannon. My shadow can tank in cloth. My vanguard can tank in nothing but pants. A bodytype 4 male can be a sneaky little *beep* it's all possible and that's something gaming is about for me. I'd ofcourse NOT bring that to an RP server, but on any other server, no, I see no issues.

So, again, more choices are good, but as it stands now, there are more choices for female characters than male characters. So if you want a level playing field, lobby for more male-specific clothing.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. I've asked if they can make all outfits look the same on male and female characters as well as removing gender restrictions (so male characters get slave armour and belly shirts/sleeveless gear too). So in a way I am asking for more options for male characters.

For example there'd be two versions of something like the Aspiring Knight's Vest available to male and female characters. One version keeps the current male look on both genders and the other gives the belly shirt/sleeveless option to both genders - that way your male Jedi can show off his arms and abs if he fancies it and my female smash monkey can keep herself covered and warm on Hoth.

Make more sense?

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. I've asked if they can make all outfits look the same on male and female characters as well as removing gender restrictions (so male characters get slave armour and belly shirts/sleeveless gear too). So in a way I am asking for more options for male characters.

OK, then.

For example there'd be two versions of something like the Aspiring Knight's Vest available to male and female characters. One version keeps the current male look on both genders and the other gives the belly shirt/sleeveless option to both genders - that way your male Jedi can show off his arms and abs if he fancies it and my female smash monkey can keep herself covered and warm on Hoth.

 

Make more sense?

There is already a huge selection of clothing that covers the arms and midriff of female characters. As I said, more cosmetics are good, but you don't need to try to justify it by implying there's a lack of options for female characters when in fact the opposite is the case.

OK, then.

There is already a huge selection of clothing that covers the arms and midriff of female characters. As I said, more cosmetics are good, but you don't need to try to justify it by implying there's a lack of options for female characters when in fact the opposite is the case.

I'll not argue there's female specific clothing, but male characters not having belly shirts available doesn't carry the same problematic RL baggage as say slave armour being female character only.

And yeah, I know, magic space knights and aliens etc. might make this seem ridiculous, but as I said, I'm an RP player at heart and I'm seeing my options restricted (it's also a matter of taste, some of the medium armours are 1) ugly to me and 2) clearly designed for a male body shape), so I'm going to focus on that. You have a different perspective, which is fine, but it doesn't invalidate mine or any other posters.

Armour may be cosmetics to you, but for me it's an integral part of creating a character.

And yeah, I know, magic space knights and aliens etc. might make this seem ridiculous

Ridiculous that in an entire Galaxy, there's not a one man who wouldn't want to show off his sweet abs, whilst also covering his chest?

Ridiculous that in an entire Galaxy, there's not a one woman who wouldn't want to have that cross-over top, but without having her arms and belly uncovered?

I love the fact that people are capable of being completely accepting of the Force and all the stupid nuances that come from it; the people can understand languages they themselves are incapable of speaking, but the minute you suggest putting a guy in metallic Brazilians and a collar and the whole world goes to ****.

Not having a dig, but the idea of having an entire fantastical realm, where everyone dresses along strict heteronormative lines, in a galaxy of literally trillions of individuals. What the actual.

Not having a dig, but the idea of having an entire fantastical realm, where everyone dresses along strict heteronormative lines, in a galaxy of literally trillions of individuals. What the actual.

Ahh no - more, I understand why some people pull out the 'but it's a game about space knights so why should clothing practicality or RL issues come into it' argument, it's not an argument I agree with, but I acknowledge it's there.

P.S. I howled laughing at that Master Chief cosplay and comment.

I'll not argue there's female specific clothing, but male characters not having belly shirts available doesn't carry the same problematic RL baggage as say slave armour being female character only.

There's no baggage other than what people choose to ascribe to it.

And yeah, I know, magic space knights and aliens etc. might make this seem ridiculous, but as I said, I'm an RP player at heart and I'm seeing my options restricted

How are your options restricted? There are more options for dressing female characters. There is no lack of modest "womanly" clothing in the game. Does it bother you that it's not female-exclusive?

(it's also a matter of taste, some of the medium armours are 1) ugly to me and 2) clearly designed for a male body shape), so I'm going to focus on that. You have a different perspective, which is fine, but it doesn't invalidate mine or any other posters.

Taste is another matter. But you just said some of the medium armors are ugly. That implies most of them are not ugly

Armour may be cosmetics to you, but for me it's an integral part of creating a character.

That's what "cosmetics" are for. If I didn't view armor as "cosmetic" (as you do, whether you choose to use that word or not) I wouldn't care what my characters wear. But I do care because it's enjoyable to me to care. So I don't dispute your caring about how you dress your characters, I dispute the implication that female characters have fewer options when, as I said, they actually have more.

And a slave boy outfit? Sure. The more cosmetics the better because the more choices, the better.

Ahh no - more, I understand why some people pull out the 'but it's a game about space knights so why should clothing practicality or RL issues come into it' argument, it's not an argument I agree with, but I acknowledge it's there.

 

P.S. I howled laughing at that Master Chief cosplay and comment.

Magical space technology explains stuff like the Covert Armour set, but could you imagine how bitter all the SMGs would be if there were armour pieces that look awesome on female characters and you put it on male characters and half the plates are missing, replaced with forcefields.

I shall reflect your laser bullets with my manly n*pples! Have at you!

There's no baggage other than what people choose to ascribe to it.

I strongly contest that, but if you choose to ignore the very real problem of sexism in pop culture then I'm not going to force the issue since that's not what this thread is for.

That's what "cosmetics" are for. If I didn't view armor as "cosmetic" (as you do, whether you choose to use that word or not) I wouldn't care what my characters wear. But I do care because it's enjoyable to me to care. So I don't dispute your caring about how you dress your characters, I dispute the implication that female characters have fewer options when, as I said, they actually have more.

 

And a slave boy outfit? Sure. The more cosmetics the better because the more choices, the better.

We both agree that more choices is a good thing, but since you don't appear willing to acknowledge the problematic aspects of the 'extra' female options currently available then I think I'll leave it at that otherwise we'll just end up talking in circles.

Have fun in game.