Saing merks have heavy armor so they are fine, you prove how clueless as to how the game works you are. OOO I have heavy armor and its 5% better than medium armor, its soo good against all those attacks that bypass all armor anyway. I would so much rather have medium armor and 5 defensive cooldowns along with an aoe mezz on my merk than useless heavy armor.

 

 

 

Charged bolts on a 5 second cooldown. And give merks a slow ability like most classes have (force slow for example).

Putting either grav round or charged bolts on a 5s cd would screw commando dps in pve really badly.

I do agree we really need an on demand snare or root with a low cd.

There's also the issue of utility. RWZ teams will not want dps commandos (even if they can properly dps) unless they bring some utility as well. Perhaps give them a purge type skill which allows them to remove buffs from enemies (like WoW shamans), or something akin to bloodlust which would increase attack/cast speed on the group.

Because we'd **** any other ranged class since our attacks are instant, and theirs isn't. Charged bolts being instant would make assault commandos in line with pre 1.4 assault vanguards, and everyone considers their dps OP.

 

It also doesn't solve our problem of being unable to escape melee.

no, just no.

how would assault commando be in line with vanguard at all? we lack 30% armor pen on HIB. vanguards have no problem hitting just south of 5k, whereas commandos are lucky to get 4.2k

and just because an opinion is widely the same, does not make it correct.

instant tracer missile/power shot (and rep equivalents) would have no impact on damage output. is merc damage output OP right now? good god no, even under optimal circumstances. the only thing that changes is that instead of having our damage output reduced to about 20% of optimal when we are pressured by melee opponents (which is about 90% of the player base), we are able to continue being an effective member of the group by fighting back.

its like everyone is scared that Merc will suddenly stop being a free kill with instant cast TM/PS. if bioware is serious about fixing the class, that is one of the first changes they will make. luckily for all you bads, it doesnt look like bioware is serious about fixing the class

no, just no.

 

how would assault commando be in line with vanguard at all? we lack 30% armor pen on HIB. vanguards have no problem hitting just south of 5k, whereas commandos are lucky to get 4.2k

And charged bolts hits harder than ion pulse. Our attacks our also 30m, where theirs is 10m. And we still don't really have much utility either.

and just because an opinion is widely the same, does not make it correct.

If everyone saying VGs are OP are wrong, then I guess everyone saying commandos being UP is wrong too I suppose huh? Can't have it both ways.

instant tracer missile/power shot (and rep equivalents) would have no impact on damage output. is merc damage output OP right now? good god no, even under optimal circumstances. the only thing that changes is that instead of having our damage output reduced to about 20% of optimal when we are pressured by melee opponents (which is about 90% of the player base), we are able to continue being an effective member of the group by fighting back.

 

its like everyone is scared that Merc will suddenly stop being a free kill with instant cast TM/PS. if bioware is serious about fixing the class, that is one of the first changes they will make. luckily for all you bads, it doesnt look like bioware is serious about fixing the class

The only major difference between commando and vanguard assault spec is that commandos require casted abilities to reset their HIB, whereas VGs require instants. This is what makes assault commandos not that great. Making CB instant brings them in line with VGs. But unlike the VG who has to be 10m from enemies to reset HIB, commandos would be able to do this from 30m. Hence why they would be like pre 1.4 VGs.

The only major difference between commando and vanguard assault spec is that commandos require casted abilities to reset their HIB, whereas VGs require instants. Making CB instant brings them in line with VGs. But unlike the VG who has to be 10m from enemies to reset HIB, commandos would be able to do this from 30m. Hence why they would be like pre 1.4 VGs.

again, no. you cannot compare apples to oranges........

powertech resets with rocket punch and flame burst. flame burst is elemental damage and auto-procs CGC for an extra ~1k damage on every hit, plus the damage from the DoT. rocket punch hits reliably much harder than either Unload (which is channeled and just begging to be interrupted) and Power Shot. not to mention both are Tech attacks, which make them subject to literally no defensive rolls.

and you need to factor in the utility that Powertech has. taunts, AOE stun and grapple, plus perma-slow are worth something, and all things that Merc does not have.

and PLEASE show me a merc that can stay at ranges of 25-30m for the majority of a fight. unless the target is attacking someone else and totally ignoring the merc, its not going to happen. melee classes have too many tools to get into our faces, and then either stay there or get back quickly.

if merc is supposed to be competitive in PvP as a DPS class, we need the ability to maintain at least a semblance of our DPS output while under pressure. instant cast TM/PS give us exactly that

Just stop. They aren't going to make Tracer Missile and Power Shot insta cast abilities. They will do something minor. Like make Jet Boost, when triggered, remove any movement impairing debuffs on you. Similar to how Sorc's sprint ability works. They don't want Mercs to do more damage. They want Mercs to spend more time running away.

INSTANT CAST WOULD NOT MAKE MERC DO MORE DAMAGE

i really do not understand what is so hard to comprehend about that. making an ability instant cast does not suddenly increase the amount of damage it can do. and because both TM and PS have 1.5s cast times (the same as one GCD) you will not be able to use the skill any more frequently than you can now.

the only thing that instant cast would change is that Merc would be able to compete by maintaining DPS while mobile. apparently a large part of the community thinks thats a bad thing...............

INSTANT CAST WOULD NOT MAKE MERC DO MORE DAMAGE

Yes it would, because it wouldn't be interrupted.

Yes it would, because it wouldn't be interrupted.

/facepalm

please tell me you are not being serious.................

and tell me how that would make us OP?

 

we wouldnt gain any actual damage output. the only difference would be that when fleeing for our lives from a mara/pt/assassin we would actual be able to put up a fight.

 

right now, if a melee/hybrid melee enemy decides they want to kill me, there is not a lot i can do to stop them. i can try to run away and pull them out of the fight, but if they dont make several major mistakes i will die.

Why don't you go level a Rogue in RIFT to max level then play Marksman Spec. You get an ability called Hit and Run that made all your casted abilities now instant. Marks spec had a low CD hit that would do like fully buffed HSM damage on a really low cd, enough to get two off with Hit and Run up.

Sooo imagine someone who knows how to effectively jump kite playing a ranged class like that... Yeah it's stupid op'ed Not only did Marks Rogue beat anything 1v1 with that ability, now imaginve Merc/Mando gets it 100% of the time.

Cash is correct. An instant cast tracer missile would do no more damage than it already does...

"Launches a missile at the target that deals 670 kinetic damage and applies a heat signature, reducing the armor rating by 4% for 15 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. Heat signatures leave the target vulnerable to Rail Shot."

The only difference is that it fires instantly and can not be interrupted. 670 kinetic damage is 670 kinetic damage no matter if it's cast or instant.

Unless it's being said that Tracer is supposed to be interrupted, that it's intended to be interrupted at all times, in which case it's a measure put in place to limit bounty hunter dps. If so, that suggests that it's an intentional gimp on the class to limit its dps across the board.

Keeping tracer missile as a cast ability then suggests that the bounty hunter class is never supposed to deal out its maximum possible dps.

Cash is correct. An instant cast tracer missile would do no more damage than it already does...

 

"Launches a missile at the target that deals 670 kinetic damage and applies a heat signature, reducing the armor rating by 4% for 15 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. Heat signatures leave the target vulnerable to Rail Shot."

 

The only difference is that it fires instantly and can not be interrupted. 670 kinetic damage is 670 kinetic damage no matter if it's cast or instant.

 

Unless it's being said that Tracer is supposed to be interrupted, that it's intended to be interrupted at all times, in which case it's a measure put in place to limit bounty hunter dps. If so, that suggests that it's an intentional gimp on the class to limit its dps across the board.

 

Keeping tracer missile as a cast ability then suggests that the bounty hunter class is never supposed to deal out its maximum possible dps.

While you are quite correct in that Tracer Missle/Grav round wouldn't do more damage if it was instant, it would still be hugely game changing. Being able to dish out some pretty steady DPS while kiting, and building procs to do more DPS isn't really what "kiting" is. At least, that's the way it seems to play out in SWTOR.

I have played Merc (and admittely, didn't find it fun enough to carry on with after hitting 50 and playing around a bit), but most of my experience is with Sage, the archetypal Kiting class here. While kiting, we lose a fair portion of our DPS because we are moving, but in return it reduces incoming DPS. If we were even able to throw around disturbance while kiting (Low power cost, no cooldown, mediocre damage), there would be a lot of "Nerf Sage/Sorc" threads, because we could build procs off of it and not have to rely on the very costly Project to be continuing damage.

I believe that is why Tracer Missile won't ever become instant. It's not that it's supposed to be interrupted, it's that it's supposed to keep you static to be building procs and dealing damage.

Of course, I do feel sorry for dedicated Commando/Merc players. Gunslingers/Snipers are the turrets and have the tools to do that, Sages/Sorcs are the Kiting class and have the tools to do that (less one defensive cooldown). Commando/Mercs are stuck in a middle ground that doesn't really work, but because they want classes to seem unique, Bioware don't really know what to do with your class to make it better without making it more like one or the other.

TBH, the Backwards leap is the best (most likely) suggestion in this thread. Or maybe a self-buff that lasts 30s, Cooldown 1m, and the next person to leap to you receives an automatic and substantial (20m+) knockback for his trouble.

It amazes me that some ppl here think that if you keep the same damage on abilities and make them instant instead of channeled/casted it wouldnt increase the damage output of a player.

You would be increasing the dps of it by 25% because you wouldn't have a 2 second cast it would just be a GCD

Plus merc would be unstoppable in building up all their procs/buffs - Yea that might sound all OMGTHATWOULDBEAWESOME. But that seriously unbalances the way the class works.

If Tracer would become instant - the whole tree/ class would have to be reworked.

But the point of the thread is to talk about Escape abiliies for Merc.... So /Dicuss

I understand the increased dps argument. It's basically that, as an instant cast ability, it can be used more often. Therefor, your dps increases. Bear in mind that tracer missile still costs heat, though, so bounty hunters couldn't spam it endlessly. And it's not one of the bounty hunter's hardest hitting abilities. The bounty hunter isn't known as a remarkable or even noteworthy dps class, though, so the fear of them becoming dps terrors seems a bit far-fetched.

Even with an instant cast tracer missile, our big hits would still be cast abilities so we'd still have to stand still to get off any attack with substantial power (thus utilizing those tracer missile heat stacks).

the jet pack suggestion still seems a worthwhile idea... an instant cast backwards launch of 25-30 meters to escape Force leap range. Pair it with a simultaneous Rapid shots, and give it a cool down.

I would far, far perfer a forward jump/teleport or a templated/targeted jump ability than a backwards self-punt.

I get backwards punted enough by juggs/guardians pushing me around or sorcs/sages force waves, as well as I would think a backwards leap would be a lot harder to negotiate the maps when you are strafe kiting/pillar dodging.

/facepalm

 

please tell me you are not being serious.................

What server are you playing on? I'd love to reroll somewhere that I can free-cast Tracers endlessly without fear of interruption or pushback at the very least.

You would be increasing the dps of it by 25% because you wouldn't have a 2 second cast it would just be a GCD

Do you even play a Mercenary? Tracer is 1.5 second cast.

If Tracer would become instant - the whole tree/ class would have to be reworked.

I don't see why it would need to be.

holy crap

tracer has a 1.5 SECOND CAST TIME. l2p whoever said that it was 2s, Muzzle Fluting (taken by every DPS merc) reduces it by .5s

so far the only real argument against an instant tracer missile/power shot is that because it cant be interrupted, Merc damage would magically become OP. um, what? that sounds like to me that people, and a large amount of people it seems, believe that getting constantly interrupted is part of Mercs class mechanics? that somehow biowares great idea to tie all of Mercs greater damage potential into casted abilities, in a game with a crapload of ways to be interrupted, is integral to the balance of Merc's damage output?

please, tell me im getting trolled, because in no way is that a logical argument.

if a merc is allowed to freecast, they can barely keep pace with the damage output of jugg, mara, sniper, etc. if they are constantly pressured (most often the case) they will be lucky to outdamage any healers in the match.

and how on earth do you think merc will suddenly become king of kiting at 20+m? with the crapload of leaps, pulls, slows, roots, stuns, etc in this game, staying even 10+m away from enemies is almost impossible. as a merc, i can already jump-shoot like MM rogues in Rift (ive actually played one, so knew what that guy was talking about). the MAJOR difference between MM rogues and Mercs is that MM rogues had a lot of mechanics that gave them temporary speed boosts to help them stay at kiting distance (it was called speedshot or something, dont really remember). apples and oranges really

Grav round/charged bolts is never going to be instant cast. BW is never going to make a mainstay ability instant cast. It also doesn't need to be.

I'd rather get proper tools to kite, which would make this class require some skill to play, then get instant GR/CB making this class dumb as hell to play. In order to properly kite, we'd need a disengage ability, and some type of on demand ranged snare/root.

holy crap

 

tracer has a 1.5 SECOND CAST TIME. l2p whoever said that it was 2s, Muzzle Fluting (taken by every DPS merc) reduces it by .5s

 

so far the only real argument against an instant tracer missile/power shot is that because it cant be interrupted, Merc damage would magically become OP. um, what? that sounds like to me that people, and a large amount of people it seems, believe that getting constantly interrupted is part of Mercs class mechanics? that somehow biowares great idea to tie all of Mercs greater damage potential into casted abilities, in a game with a crapload of ways to be interrupted, is integral to the balance of Merc's damage output?

 

please, tell me im getting trolled, because in no way is that a logical argument.

 

if a merc is allowed to freecast, they can barely keep pace with the damage output of jugg, mara, sniper, etc. if they are constantly pressured (most often the case) they will be lucky to outdamage any healers in the match.

 

and how on earth do you think merc will suddenly become king of kiting at 20+m? with the crapload of leaps, pulls, slows, roots, stuns, etc in this game, staying even 10+m away from enemies is almost impossible. as a merc, i can already jump-shoot like MM rogues in Rift (ive actually played one, so knew what that guy was talking about). the MAJOR difference between MM rogues and Mercs is that MM rogues had a lot of mechanics that gave them temporary speed boosts to help them stay at kiting distance (it was called speedshot or something, dont really remember). apples and oranges really

So if you think commandos' dps won't get any higher if GR/CB becomes instant, then why would you want this change anyways? We'd still get wrecked by melee like we do now since--according to you--our dps won't be on par with them. Your suggestion DOES NOT SOLVE dps commando issues of getting wrecked by melee. All it does is put a band aid on the problem by allowing us to dps a bit more before we die a horrible death.

I don't want a change that allows me to do a bit more damage before I die. I want the tools to be able to kill the other guy.

The class's problem for rated is their lack of utility, and not their lack of escapes or damage.

It's a combination of all 3. Utility is great and all, but no team is going to want a dps that can't dps effectively.

So if you think commandos' dps won't get any higher if GR/CB becomes instant, then why would you want this change anyways? We'd still get wrecked by melee like we do now since--according to you--our dps won't be on par with them. Your suggestion DOES NOT SOLVE dps commando issues of getting wrecked by melee. All it does is put a band aid on the problem by allowing us to dps a bit more before we die a horrible death.

 

I don't want a change that allows me to do a bit more damage before I die. I want the tools to be able to kill the other guy.

Cash doesn't admit that Merc/Commando have a dps problem. Don't try to argue with him he's pretty adamant about his beliefs and you'll just be banging your head against a wall.

So if you think commandos' dps won't get any higher if GR/CB becomes instant, then why would you want this change anyways? We'd still get wrecked by melee like we do now since--according to you--our dps won't be on par with them. Your suggestion DOES NOT SOLVE dps commando issues of getting wrecked by melee. All it does is put a band aid on the problem by allowing us to dps a bit more before we die a horrible death.

 

I don't want a change that allows me to do a bit more damage before I die. I want the tools to be able to kill the other guy.

do you not realize that instant cast TM/PS would allow you to try to kill the other guy? utility skills are going to do nothing but allow us to run away faster, which offers ZERO offensive potential. instant cast allow you to fight back while under pressure. instant cast allows you to maintain DPS, which right now merc has no chance of doing when under pressure.

MERC DPS WOULD NOT INCREASE. you would be able to do the exact same damage that you can now when left alone, but with instant cast you could do it under pressure. meaning you would not be absolutely worthless once 1 person decides to kill you. the ability to use a skill instantly does not magically increase the amount of damage it can do, it simply allows you to use the ability more reliably.

You guys still don't get it. BW doesn't think Merc dps does too little damage. All the metrics that BW looks at tells them that Merc dps do far too much damage. That is why they repeatedly have nerfed Merc dps.

How can that happen? Simple. Virtually no one plays Merc dps anymore. On my server I am basically the sole Merc dps left. I can go an entire week in normal wz without seeing a Merc dps. So virtually the entire meta average productivity of Merc dps on my server comes from me. And 90% of the matches I am the high dps on my team. Things are probably the same on other servers. The only people left playing Merc dps in PvP are the most skilled, most geared, most determined players. So when BW looks at their weekly meta average numbers, they see maybe 80 matches played by Merc dps on my server, and the average productivity is FAR HIGHER than that for any other subclass.

The problem of course is that BW's meta average metrics do not control for player skill/quality. So they will continue to nerf Merc dps until the very best Merc dps players have productivity equal to that of the average, undergeared noobs playing the FotM. This is exactly what we have seen for the last six months.