The reason I say this is because it's becoming pretty impossible to kill a decent geared tank/healer combination. Especially in huttball. There were two Juggernaut tanks in my huttball today, one guarding the healer and one guarding the other tank, they both had around 21-25k hp. Me queueing with 3 other friends we tend not to lose many Warzones but these three guys were immortal. We're all well geared (champions, some battlemaster) two of us being operatives we don't really have much trouble taking down other ball carriers, but even with the red buff and 15% expertise from biochem we couldn't take this guy down... I think the lowest we got him to was around 40% then he probably popped saberward or something cause he could've literally danced around for another 30 seconds and he still wouldn't of died. We tried to take down his healer (mercenary) but both of them would just taunt us so we'd do 30% less damage and mercenary healers aren't the easiest to take down anyway.

Now I haven't come here to whine about stuff but I really do think guard needs to be tweaked a little, maybe bring the damage conversion down to 30% or 20%? I think 50% is a bit of an overkill. If you have any better suggestions then just post them below, I'm sure some of you have come across the same problem.

The reason I say this is because it's becoming pretty impossible to kill a decent geared tank/healer combination. Especially in huttball. There were two Juggernaut tanks in my huttball today, one guarding the healer and one guarding the other tank, they both had around 21-25k hp. Me queueing with 3 other friends we tend not to lose many Warzones but these three guys were immortal. We're all well geared (champions, some battlemaster) two of us being operatives we don't really have much trouble taking down other ball carriers, but even with the red buff and 15% expertise from biochem we couldn't take this guy down... I think the lowest we got him to was around 40% then he probably popped saberward or something cause he could've literally danced around for another 30 seconds and he still wouldn't of died. We tried to take down his healer (mercenary) but both of them would just taunt us so we'd do 30% less damage and mercenary healers aren't the easiest to take down anyway.

 

Now I haven't come here to whine about stuff but I really do think guard needs to be tweaked a little, maybe bring the damage conversion down to 30% or 20%? I think 50% is a bit of an overkill. If you have any better suggestions then just post them below, I'm sure some of you have come across the same problem.

first you can not guard someone that is guarding another player.

Those guarding can't be guarded.

Also, they TAKE all that damage, so just focus the healer. Unless the Tank AoE taunts you, then jump him. You'll need 3 people whom are DPS, or 4+ people non-DPS, to outdamage a good healer.

Or do it the smart way, pull the tank or push the healer away. From 16+ meters, the guard no longer works. Pull the tank, get his attention, send a stealthy at the healer.

You Win.

Or complain because it takes too much thought to topple a castle.

fyi healers can't taunt.

Realizing that they are 2 characters which have to stay together to guard with different resolve timers & a good use of interrupts (and things like a BH's grapple to puil them 30m apart) helps fighting tank / healer combos.

:edit: missed the 2 juggs, ignore the healers can't taunt bit

Guard on another player, even if I didn't try to stay within the distance, gave me a whole boat load of medals. Maybe that's what your referring to. Does guard stack on top of a sorceror/sage shield?

Add stealth to the equation, and you have a heavy hitter. They appear, smash your face in, and then disappear using their dot scrubber on top of force stealth. I think with shadows it's called resilience.

I'll simply explain why it doesnt!

Assassin Darkness Tank = 15-25k damage reduced huttball.

Sorc/Sage Healer = 50-60k protection + 200+k healing.

Without guard we have nothing as we cannot reduce incoming damage for ourselfs only others.

Kill the tank most damage ignore defense, shield and armor anyway and if they got high hp they are harmless!

The reason I say this is because it's becoming pretty impossible to kill a decent geared tank/healer combination. Especially in huttball. There were two Juggernaut tanks in my huttball today, one guarding the healer and one guarding the other tank, they both had around 21-25k hp. Me queueing with 3 other friends we tend not to lose many Warzones but these three guys were immortal. We're all well geared (champions, some battlemaster) two of us being operatives we don't really have much trouble taking down other ball carriers, but even with the red buff and 15% expertise from biochem we couldn't take this guy down... I think the lowest we got him to was around 40% then he probably popped saberward or something cause he could've literally danced around for another 30 seconds and he still wouldn't of died. We tried to take down his healer (mercenary) but both of them would just taunt us so we'd do 30% less damage and mercenary healers aren't the easiest to take down anyway.

 

Now I haven't come here to whine about stuff but I really do think guard needs to be tweaked a little, maybe bring the damage conversion down to 30% or 20%? I think 50% is a bit of an overkill. If you have any better suggestions then just post them below, I'm sure some of you have come across the same problem.

If you want Guard "tweaking", then you should accept some Operative "burst tweaking".

Your complaint sums up to this. Normally the 3 of you can tear through people who aren't coordinated. But, because you can't tear through another group of three who are coordinated in their abilities, then they definitely need to be "tweaked".

Really?

The reason I say this is because it's becoming pretty impossible to kill a decent geared tank/healer combination. Especially in huttball. There were two Juggernaut tanks in my huttball today, one guarding the healer and one guarding the other tank, they both had around 21-25k hp. Me queueing with 3 other friends we tend not to lose many Warzones but these three guys were immortal. We're all well geared (champions, some battlemaster) two of us being operatives we don't really have much trouble taking down other ball carriers, but even with the red buff and 15% expertise from biochem we couldn't take this guy down... I think the lowest we got him to was around 40% then he probably popped saberward or something cause he could've literally danced around for another 30 seconds and he still wouldn't of died. We tried to take down his healer (mercenary) but both of them would just taunt us so we'd do 30% less damage and mercenary healers aren't the easiest to take down anyway.

 

Now I haven't come here to whine about stuff but I really do think guard needs to be tweaked a little, maybe bring the damage conversion down to 30% or 20%? I think 50% is a bit of an overkill. If you have any better suggestions then just post them below, I'm sure some of you have come across the same problem.

If they ever have rated pvp? Yes. Until then? No. I am starting to see more tank stacks though and it really, really makes pvp horrible, slow and a borefest. It is worse then healer stacking in WoW.

People will always take the easy way to victory though and in this game it is stacking tanks/heals.

Guard transfers 50% of the damage. That damage is not mitigated by tank. If healer is pressed enough to heal only self(2 DPS on him INTERRUPTING heals, if possible some DOTs on tank instead of being dps monkeys) then tank will pop in no time.

Now, in Warhammer Online guard was a beast, here its quite balanced.

But why the QQ then? Because 90% of you meet the mechanic first time in your sad WoW lifes and have no slightest clue on how to deal with it!

Guard transfers 50% of the damage. That damage is not mitigated by tank. If healer is pressed enough to heal only self(2 DPS on him INTERRUPTING heals, if possible some DOTs on tank instead of being dps monkeys) then tank will pop in no time.

 

Now, in Warhammer Online guard was a beast, here its quite balanced.

But why the QQ then? Because 90% of you meet the mechanic first time in your sad WoW lifes and have no slightest clue on how to deal with it!

Actually no it isn't balanced. Why people stack all tanks and dps that can guard.

1) negates half the CC in this game that breaks on damage.

2) negates any class that relies on burst.

3) Makes AOE heals much, much better because damage is shared.

It makes healing EZ mode. It makes up for badly played classes. It is a absolutely horrible mechanic.

If they ever have rated, everyone is just going to stack tanks and the only dps spec brought will be assassins/shadows because they have the most interupts on a healer and a token marauder/sent for mortal strike.

People are already doing the above and it is the most boring thing in the world to fight the mirror.

It isn't that big a problem atm because there is no rated warzones, so there is no reason (unless you can't win otherwise) to do it at the moment.

Are we honestly complaining about Juggernauts in PvP?

Apparently so, because the Healer and Jug combo is the one combo the OP has issues with. Other than that, as the OP said, they can tear through everyone else. So in the situation that they can't tear through someone, then for sure it means a "tweak" is necessary.

It's on par with just about every other nerf post. I remember another Sorc post saying he can win 1v1 with every class except for X class, so therefore X class must be nerfed.

Actually no it isn't balanced. Why people stack all tanks and dps that can guard.

 

1) negates half the CC in this game that breaks on damage.

 

2) negates any class that relies on burst.

 

3) Makes AOE heals much, much better because damage is shared.

 

It makes healing EZ mode. It makes up for badly played classes. It is a absolutely horrible mechanic.

 

If they ever have rated, everyone is just going to stack tanks and the only dps spec brought will be assassins/shadows because they have the most interupts on a healer and a token marauder/sent for mortal strike.

 

People are already doing the above and it is the most boring thing in the world to fight the mirror.

 

It isn't that big a problem atm because there is no rated warzones, so there is no reason (unless you can't win otherwise) to do it at the moment.

Go play a tank.

Go ahead and 'stack' Guard. It'll be as easy as stacking batteries in mid-air.

DO IT, I DARE YOU.

Want to kill a tank guarding a healer? Concentrate on the healer, or the tank, don't go for both. Or pull/push the tank away and eat the healer. Learn to Play or leave the game, your call.

Actually no it isn't balanced. Why people stack all tanks and dps that can guard.

 

1) negates half the CC in this game that breaks on damage.

 

2) negates any class that relies on burst.

 

3) Makes AOE heals much, much better because damage is shared.

 

It makes healing EZ mode. It makes up for badly played classes. It is a absolutely horrible mechanic.

 

If they ever have rated, everyone is just going to stack tanks and the only dps spec brought will be assassins/shadows because they have the most interupts on a healer and a token marauder/sent for mortal strike.

 

People are already doing the above and it is the most boring thing in the world to fight the mirror.

 

It isn't that big a problem atm because there is no rated warzones, so there is no reason (unless you can't win otherwise) to do it at the moment.

It's not so black and white. It's a L2P scenario. You want to know a strategy? I'll give you a hint.

Guard only has a limited range. Knockback, or pull the healer away from the Guard player. CC Guard player, Stomp on Healer that no longer has Guard in affect. Win.

Sorry, this requires coordinated effort... which many teams don't have. I see that is where the problem lies.

But for me, as a Vanguard, when I see a target being guarded, I pull either the tank, or the target away and nuke him.

Disclaimer: Results will vary.

Guard transfers 50% of the damage. That damage is not mitigated by tank. If healer is pressed enough to heal only self(2 DPS on him INTERRUPTING heals, if possible some DOTs on tank instead of being dps monkeys) then tank will pop in no time.

 

Now, in Warhammer Online guard was a beast, here its quite balanced.

But why the QQ then? Because 90% of you meet the mechanic first time in your sad WoW lifes and have no slightest clue on how to deal with it!

I see you on these forums quite a lot, bashing people and claiming they're bad because they played WoW, even though you don't know whether they did or not, you just like to insist they do. It isn't balanced at all, and I highly doubt you have decent gear/experience with it yourself if you do. Please enlighten me, in a rational way on how to deal with a 24k hp tank and a decent healer. Your 'interrupting heals' is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard, do you know how interrupts work on this game? You interrupt one spell, he can just use the other ones. And oh right, yeah, let's destroy the mercenary healer, that sure won't be hard. Despite the fact they're extremely tough even without guard.

It's not so black and white. It's a L2P scenario. You want to know a strategy? I'll give you a hint.

 

Guard only has a limited range. Knockback, or pull the healer away from the Guard player. CC Guard player, Stomp on Healer that no longer has Guard in affect. Win.

 

Sorry, this requires coordinated effort... which many teams don't have. I see that is where the problem lies.

 

But for me, as a Vanguard, when I see a target being guarded, I pull either the tank, or the target away and nuke him.

 

Disclaimer: Results will vary.

Your whole strategy relies on the tank being a moron and the healer being a moron and people being on vent.

Guess what... the other people have vent too.

Soon as you touch the healer you are taunted. GG.

It has no counter. When macros are introduced in this game it will be even dumber. People will just have a taunt target of target macro for their healer.

3 dps sitting on a healer can keep almost all of his heals interrupt-locked, I really fail to see a problem here apart from low skill.

You simply haven't seen it in action then. You'll see. It'll have to be nerfed at some point, especially if they were thinking of adding any new tiers of gear in the next few months.

For those that think "Guard" is overpowered.

1. Max range of 15m.

2. The Guard'er can not be Guarded, nor can he guard more than one person.

3. 50% of damage is transfered to the Guarded, 5% is mitigated. That means you can all pile on the Guarded player and kill the tank.

4. Taunts reduce damage by 30%, UNLESS YOU ATTACK THE PERSON THAT TAUNTED YOU.

So. Don't expect to kill a tank and healer combo 1v2. Instead, YOU ARE NOW REQUIRED TO BRING A SECOND PERSON. Now one of you requires a pull, push, or lockdown (force whirlwind/lift). Remove the tank from the healer, say 16+ meters. Now stun him. Focus on the healer. This is simple. The healer is not affected by Guard outside of that 15m range, and most healers stay just on the line of that, so a simple pull of the tank, and push of the healer means a massive gap.

Now this next part takes SKILL, you need to keep the tank and healer seperate. I've done this MANY times with my friend, me being a tank Vanguard (I have a pull) and my friend being a DPS Guardian. I pull, he kills. Easy.

If you can't do this, bring a third person, now pull and keep the tank stunned and let your friends kill the healer. Then repeat DPS on tank. If you find more than 1 tank, bring 3+ DPS. This means one simple thing. THEY ARE WORKING AS A TEAM, and to defeat them, you too must do this...

Sorry. You have to have skill. It is required, just like the rest of your life. No Skill, no win (unless you are lucky). If you can't figure out how to kill a tank, avoid them. Not simple, but you might as well try because you suck if you can't put two braincells together and figure out how to move two players away from each other.

I see you on these forums quite a lot, bashing people and claiming they're bad because they played WoW, even though you don't know whether they did or not, you just like to insist they do. It isn't balanced at all, and I highly doubt you have decent gear/experience with it yourself if you do. Please enlighten me, in a rational way on how to deal with a 24k hp tank and a decent healer. Your 'interrupting heals' is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard, do you know how interrupts work on this game? You interrupt one spell, he can just use the other ones. And oh right, yeah, let's destroy the mercenary healer, that sure won't be hard. Despite the fact they're extremely tough even without guard.

WoW is a mentality, I could call them unskilled clueless carebears who refuse to develop tactic against odds they haven't met before and cry for nerfs instead of even TRY to adapt but thats shorter and describes just as much

And to the question on how to deal with them-what is your setting? Two DPS? What DPS? Ranged? Melee? Do you have CC? Do you have knockbacks? Are there any ledges/terrain levels you could exploit or is it flat surface? Believe me, I both, played against that combo as well as was a part of it in WHO, there it was even more devastating as you could easily take on 4+ people who had no cooperation as cooperation is the key to break tank+heal setup.

But generally it comes down to two basic COORDINATED tactics(which means no, you will not succeed in PUG and will be butchered like a lamb) one being massive AoE and debuffs(sentinels and marauders can spec for heal debuff if I recall correctly) and other separating them from guard range and bursting healer. Separating them is much more tricky, but does the job better so you can lure them on some higher ground and knockback tank, then stun and try to burst healer, you will most likely have just one chance for that because of resolve so you better save your big CDs and offensive consumables for it.

The reason I say this is because it's becoming pretty impossible to kill a decent geared tank/healer combination.

Which is kind of the point.