not impossible

 

step 1 board GOTO allied ship headed for GOTO's yacht (this is inevitable, and it doesn't even have to be an allied ship. Remember the yacht is used to hijack Vogga's fuel transports.)

step 2 board yacht

step 3 ???

step 4 profit

We've already been over this, several times, throughout the Kaggath.

As soon as G0-T0 is in an all-out war and fight to the death with a Sith Lord, there's no way he's letting anyone into his stronghold. Traya isn't invitinf tourists to Malachor. G0-T0 would be stupid to invite people to his sanctum. He will, instead, move his yacht to a secure location, maybe over Nal Hutta, and stay cloaked until the whole thing is over.

And he won't be hijacking frieghters becasue

a.) Vogga doesn't exist

b.) The Republic doesn't exist

c.) He's not that stupid

And again, beni's right GOTO has a price on his head, and his nondroid allies can be easily persuaded to see Kreia's way. You guys waaay overestimate him. Canonically, he's defeated by inferior droid intelligence.

Hold the phone.

1.) G0-T0's the one that places the prices here. He can place a price on Traya's head the size of a whole quadrant and never have to pay it because as soon as Traya dies he wins. His bounty hunters won't be turning on him with a bounty so high on Traya's head.

2.) No. Just.... no. Canonically, G0-T0 was defeated by not one, not two, but THREE HK models. Please watch the extended content of KotOR II. He was -not- defeated by the remote. In fact, in the dark side ending, he sinlge-handedly defeats HK-47. Only HK-47 and two HK-50s can defeat him. The remote does nothing.

So you waaay underestimate him.

This is what I don't understand. Where is the element of surprise?

 

G0-T0 says "Oh hey guys, I'm kinda at war with a Sith Lord right now."

 

What do you think they're going to do? Go to parties?

 

No. When Visquis was confronted with one Jedi he hid away in his base, the Jekk'jekk Tar, which would be extremely difficult for the assassins to break into. We don't have details on all the rest, but I assure you that their bases are just as safe and well guarded. They're not sitting ducks. And these bases usually have an escape route along with top-notch security.

 

On top of that, as soon as one gets taken out by stealthed assassin, everyone will know what top look for and seal up tight. No one in or out.

And by sealing themselves up tight and hiding in their bases, how do you think that will affect their smuggling operations? Their slave trade? The simple fear of assassins who can strike without warning will be enough to cripple G0-T0's illegal commerce, and from there it's a short trip to perdition. Without steady cash flow, he can't employ his people and purchase all his shiny droids.

Furthermore, he shouldn't have the Zhug brothers or the Twin suns. They are unique, outside characters whom he hired explicitly to hunt the Jedi Exile. This would be the equivalent of someone like Xizor hiring Boba Fett during the Kaggath. Since they had no ties to G0-T0 other than employment on a single contract, they really won't be available as part of his core force.

Concerning the blockade, a few problems.

• G0-T0 has to procure a fleet first, and as I have a many times repeated, he had no means of doing this. Any fleet he produces will be comprised of freighters, nothing a Sith Fleet can't handle.
   
   
  
• Before G0-T0 reaches Malachor V, he will be pulled out of hyperspace by Traya's interdiction fleets, and possibly subsequently destroyed before they even get there.
   
   
  
• To effectively blockade the planet, they have to get in close, this is difficult given the planet's strong gravitational pull and web of debris. Remaining there for long periods of time will be dangerous. And if they can't blockade the planet effectively (even harder seeing as G0-T0 only has freighters) Traya can more easily escape.
   
   
  
• Blockading the planet aint gonna kill her.
  

Concerning this sabotage of the Trayus Core, I was more bringing into question the HK's ability to traverse the upper surface of Malachor V where they are not protected from fierce winds and electrical storms. And its actually pretty quite down in the Core, so Traya may very well hear their descent, if they get there that is.

But lets say the plan works, the explosives are set and ready to blow. All of a sudden Traya spidey sense kicks in 'imminent danger!' as she becomes alert the explosives detonate, a combination of spacial awareness and expectation of danger mean she is immediately aware of what is happening. So with a combination of Force speed and jump she leaps clear and escapes to safety. Its possible.

And finally, concerning the 'bombardment of Korriban' - it is possible. But I don't think G0-T0's yacht packs enough punch to do anything but collapse the entrance/entrance corridor. He will need something more powerful to destroy the entire academy and ensure Traya's death. Perhaps some sort of bomb? Planted during an invasion?

We've already been over this, several times, throughout the Kaggath.

 

As soon as G0-T0 is in an all-out war and fight to the death with a Sith Lord, there's no way he's letting anyone into his stronghold. Traya isn't invitinf tourists to Malachor. G0-T0 would be stupid to invite people to his sanctum. He will, instead, move his yacht to a secure location, maybe over Nal Hutta, and stay cloaked until the whole thing is over.

 

And he won't be hijacking frieghters becasue

a.) Vogga doesn't exist

b.) The Republic doesn't exist

c.) He's not that stupid

wrong.

As I pointed out before, the rules of the Kaggath have no impact on those outside of it, only on the combatants themselves. So such things such as bounties on people's heads, would still exist - not that we have any evidence to suggest it was just Vogga.

pretty sure he's in charge of the rules of the Kaggath, sooooo. Yeah, GOTO has plenty of enemies. And bounty hunters can be persuaded to turn, much easier than Sith lords, Warlords, and military officers.

and again, I said inferior droid intelligence, not the remote. For all of his ability as a planning droid, he could not forsee his Yacht being overrun by just 2 (plus exile) individuals, and for all of his strategy and planning, he was taken out by his own droids. That would be a superior intelligence being defeated by inferior intelligence.

And by sealing themselves up tight and hiding in their bases, how do you think that will affect their smuggling operations? Their slave trade? The simple fear of assassins who can strike without warning will be enough to cripple G0-T0's illegal commerce, and from there it's a short trip to perdition. Without steady cash flow, he can't employ his people and purchase all his shiny droids.

 

Furthermore, he shouldn't have the Zhug brothers or the Twin suns. They are unique, outside characters whom he hired explicitly to hunt the Jedi Exile. This would be the equivalent of someone like Xizor hiring Boba Fett during the Kaggath. Since they had no ties to G0-T0 other than employment on a single contract, they really won't be available as part of his core force.

let them hve the Zhug Brothers and the Twin Suns.

And then let Kreia have Sion, lawl.

Can't believe I've forgotten this, but it's all very simple to me now.

Traya can sense groups of droids or things running on energy due to the oscillations that reverberate from them, she can easily teach this ability to her host of Sith and now Traya and her Sith Lords can sense anything large enough to give off oscillations of energy, three HK-50 droids require much more energy than three Peragus mining droids and considering that the droids will mvoe in packs, usually groups of three where Hk-50s are concerned, then it would be easy for her to sense these droids.

Expanding on this, it means she can detect vessels at the same time, if she teaches her Sith how to sense oscillations of energy, it means pretty much all her Sith would sense them to, stealth or no stealth.

Just to clarify, I'll quote my book:

Kreia could sense that throughout the mining facility only droids remained and no biological elements themselves remained, by sensing the oscillations of energy coming off of the machines, she was able to sense the droids in the path of the Exile, which had the effect of re-triggering Jedi precognition in her, though the former Jedi General could not learn Kreia's own technique.

And by sealing themselves up tight and hiding in their bases, how do you think that will affect their smuggling operations? Their slave trade? The simple fear of assassins who can strike without warning will be enough to cripple G0-T0's illegal commerce, and from there it's a short trip to perdition. Without steady cash flow, he can't employ his people and purchase all his shiny droids.

 

Furthermore, he shouldn't have the Zhug brothers or the Twin suns. They are unique, outside characters whom he hired explicitly to hunt the Jedi Exile. This would be the equivalent of someone like Xizor hiring Boba Fett during the Kaggath. Since they had no ties to G0-T0 other than employment on a single contract, they really won't be available as part of his core force.

The bosses hiding away won't hurt business.... they're not the ones flying the ships or buying/selling the slaves..... and apparently the assassins are waiting for a time to strike, so fear factor doesn't even come into play here.

Well, he already doesn't have the Twin Suns. For whatever reason I do not know.

You knid of shoot yourself in the foot when you say "they don't have any ties to G0-T0 other than employment." Yeah well, Traya's troops don't have any ties to her than employment either, so. Like look, if you're going to say G0-T0 can't hire people, at least make it stop with new people. He's hired these people in the past, and they were part of his work force at the height of his power. Obviously they're included.

Why does he have to invade, if he takes out Traya's fleet through hijacking (in which he'd have the ability to then do orbital bombardments) or sabotage (or computer viruses that cause the ships to blow themselves up), why does he have to invade?

 

He can just blockade the planet and mock Traya. He loses nothing by not invading, but she loses quite a bit if she can't get rid of some two bit crime lord. The longer the blockade continues, the more likely her own forces will try to eliminate her.

You are fundamentally failing to understand that the Sith have a warfleet and G0-T0 does not. His only naval asset to start with is his yacht, and potentially some small freighters that are part of his smuggling outfit. They have no capability to blockade a planet, and would be thrashed effortlessly if they revealed themselves.

Furthermore, time is on Traya's side. She is patient, and her Sith troops are well accustomed to waiting in the shadows. G0-T0's people expect to get paid on time, and the more of his people are hiding the less people are carrying out his operations.

Back to the "steal Traya's ships and then have an instant fleet"... Who is going to infiltrate those ships? The HK-50 droids? The Sith are pretty wary of protocol/assassin droids since they kind of pioneered their usage during the Jedi Civil War.

Previously, you suggested that G0-T0 could sneak droids onboard who would sabotage the ships and kill the crew, but this is quite difficult to achieve. Firstly, G0-T0's people would have to infiltrate the Sith's ranks while they're docked somewhere, which they rarely have to do and will arrive unexpectedly and leave just as quickly.

So if miraculously G0-T0 gets some agents in place to try sneaking into the Sith ships, they would then have to tamper with droids and not get caught so that G0-T0 could control them. From there, the droids would have to successfully sabotage the entire warship. Not an easy feat, given the presence of numerous failsafes, backup systems, and damage control teams.

Cut off the life support, you say? Like this hasn't happened during combat ever before. Ships will have emergency drills to get most of the crew to sealed holds, or retrieve environmental suits from emergency gear lockers while damage control teams repair the damaged systems and/or bring the backups online. Real life warships (and even commercial vessels, at least the well run ones) train extensively for these contingencies under fire.

In short, G0-T0's not getting a fleet.

Furthermore, he shouldn't have the Zhug brothers or the Twin suns. They are unique, outside characters whom he hired explicitly to hunt the Jedi Exile. This would be the equivalent of someone like Xizor hiring Boba Fett during the Kaggath. Since they had no ties to G0-T0 other than employment on a single contract, they really won't be available as part of his core force.

Concerning the blockade, a few problems.

 

 

• G0-T0 has to procure a fleet first, and as I have a many times repeated, he had no means of doing this. Any fleet he produces will be comprised of freighters, nothing a Sith Fleet can't handle.
   
   
  
• Before G0-T0 reaches Malachor V, he will be pulled out of hyperspace by Traya's interdiction fleets, and possibly subsequently destroyed before they even get there.
   
   
  
• To effectively blockade the planet, they have to get in close, this is difficult given the planet's strong gravitational pull and web of debris. Remaining there for long periods of time will be dangerous. And if they can't blockade the planet effectively (even harder seeing as G0-T0 only has freighters) Traya can more easily escape.
   
   
  
• Blockading the planet aint gonna kill her.
  

 

Concerning this sabotage of the Trayus Core, I was more bringing into question the HK's ability to traverse the upper surface of Malachor V where they are not protected from fierce winds and electrical storms. And its actually pretty quite down in the Core, so Traya may very well hear their descent, if they get there that is.

 

But lets say the plan works, the explosives are set and ready to blow. All of a sudden Traya spidey sense kicks in 'imminent danger!' as she becomes alert the explosives detonate, a combination of spacial awareness and expectation of danger mean she is immediately aware of what is happening. So with a combination of Force speed and jump she leaps clear and escapes to safety. Its possible.

 

And finally, concerning the 'bombardment of Korriban' - it is possible. But I don't think G0-T0's yacht packs enough punch to do anything but collapse the entrance/entrance corridor. He will need something more powerful to destroy the entire academy and ensure Traya's death. Perhaps some sort of bomb? Planted during an invasion?

Let me get this straight, Xizor was able to buy himself a fleet, but you're saying G0-T0 can't? Under that logic Traya shouldn't have a fleet either, because it was technically the forces of Nihilus, not her.

Additionally, this isn't about keeping Traya on Malachor V, it's about psychological warfare. The Sith kill each other constantly, if he finds a way to deal with the fleet, he can then park a bunch of freighters around the planet and start mocking Traya as being scared of him.

If she ends up fleeing Malachor V, then he has a chance to take out her ship, and if that fails, she's likely heading to Korriban which would be substancially easier to bomb and then blockade.

The intent behind the "blockade" is to cause discension in the Sith Ranks, it's to make her look vulnerable.

Let me get this straight, Xizor was able to buy himself a fleet, but you're saying G0-T0 can't? Under that logic Traya shouldn't have a fleet either, because it was technically the forces of Nihilus, not her.

 

Additionally, this isn't about keeping Traya on Malachor V, it's about psychological warfare. The Sith kill each other constantly, if he finds a way to deal with the fleet, he can then park a bunch of freighters around the planet and start mocking Traya as being scared of him.

 

If she ends up fleeing Malachor V, then he has a chance to take out her ship, and if that fails, she's likely heading to Korriban which would be substancially easier to bomb and then blockade.

 

The intent behind the "blockade" is to cause discension in the Sith Ranks, it's to make her look vulnerable.

Your ideas depend on "maybes" and "potentially"s

If GOTO is to raise the funds to purchase a fleet, he must run his syndicate. If he runs his syndicate, either his yacht becomes vulnerable or his operations are cut down with ease. Pick your poison.

Traya can sense groups of droids or things running on energy due to the oscillations that reverberate from them..

Oscillations can also be dampened. Stealth Generators include dampening fields.

And those droids she was sensing had shield generators that probably increased this signal.

What book is that?

You knid [sic] of shoot yourself in the foot when you say "they don't have any ties to G0-T0 other than employment." Yeah well, Traya's troops don't have any ties to her than employment either, so. Like look, if you're going to say G0-T0 can't hire people, at least make it stop with new people. He's hired these people in the past, and they were part of his work force at the height of his power. Obviously they're included.

No, I said that they were only employed on a one time contract. This is vastly different than being part of his permanent powerbase. He can hire generic bounty hunters, etc. as per the Kaggath, but not the Zhug Brothers, Twin Suns, etc. The Ubese group in Visquis' base were in his employ for an extended period, so it makes sense to include them.

The Gand are a little iffy, since they are technically freelance bounty hunters, but it seems reasonable that one small clan of them was maintained as a permanent part of the Jekk Jekk Tar's compliment of guards. Although they were also primarily on Nar Shaddaa to hunt the Jedi Exile.

Let me get this straight, Xizor was able to buy himself a fleet, but you're saying G0-T0 can't? Under that logic Traya shouldn't have a fleet either, because it was technically the forces of Nihilus, not her.

If G0-T0 finds a way to deal with the fleet, then yes, a blockade is possible. But so far, he has not found a way to deal with the fleet.

Oscillations can also be dampened. Stealth Generators include dampening fields.

 

And those droids she was sensing had shield generators that probably increased this signal.

 

What book is that?

1) what is your evidence that the droids' shield generators, which were not active at the time, increase Kreia's ability to detect them?

2) what he's saying is straight from Peragus, not a book.

But lets say the plan works, the explosives are set and ready to blow. All of a sudden Traya spidey sense kicks in 'imminent danger!' as she becomes alert the explosives detonate, a combination of spacial awareness and expectation of danger mean she is immediately aware of what is happening. So with a combination of Force speed and jump she leaps clear and escapes to safety. Its possible.

 

And finally, concerning the 'bombardment of Korriban' - it is possible. But I don't think G0-T0's yacht packs enough punch to do anything but collapse the entrance/entrance corridor. He will need something more powerful to destroy the entire academy and ensure Traya's death. Perhaps some sort of bomb? Planted during an invasion?

I don't think Traya has ever actually used Force Speed, that we know of. Actually, outside of game mechanics where you use her as a companion, Traya is not at all nimble. In your duel with her she's pretty much standing still the whole time. And she never runs in cut scenes. I don't think she's the most physically able person. But even if, the HKs can easily provide some sort of distraction, either by blowing the bridge out of the core or fighting her for the seconds needed to blow them all to Malachor... oh wait...

It's possible that G0-T0 could get a missle. Or have his HKs use more missles. I just cannot get over how cool HKs with rocket launchers are! XD

Oscillations can also be dampened. Stealth Generators include dampening fields.

 

And those droids she was sensing had shield generators that probably increased this signal.

 

What book is that?

Good point actually, but at some point they WILL need to de-cloak to do certain things, such as interacting, also are you positive this goes for EVERY single stealth generator G0-T0 will use?

Also, no the droids that the Exile came across weren't shielded until she got to the mining level.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_vs._Sith:_The_Essential_Guide_to_the_Force_(real-life_book)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Knights_of_the_Old_Republic_Campaign_Guide

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Jedi_Path%3A_A_Manual_for_Students_of_the_Force_(real-life_book)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Essential_Guide_to_Warfare

These are the books I use, The first two both state the same thing about her, just in different ways and it even states so from the game.

I don't think Traya has ever actually used Force Speed, that we know of. Actually, outside of game mechanics where you use her as a companion, Traya is not at all nimble. In your duel with her she's pretty much standing still the whole time. And she never runs in cut scenes. I don't think she's the most physically able person. But even if, the HKs can easily provide some sort of distraction, either by blowing the bridge out of the core or fighting her for the seconds needed to blow them all to Malachor... oh wait...

 

It's possible that G0-T0 could get a missle. Or have his HKs use more missles. I just cannot get over how cool HKs with rocket launchers are! XD

and that's your problem: you can't see the obvious weaknesses of HKs.

Not to mention, you're restricting Kreia's powers while allowing HKs the use of various equipment. I say if HKs can have more than their blasters and onboard stunners/flamers, Kreia can have access to all of her mentioned abilities plus trainable game mechanic abilities.

I haven't posted in this thread for a long time, but I have been watching.

Firstly, G0-T0 can't use organics so long as Traya remains on Malachor. The Dark energies of the planet will either corrupt or kill them. Remember that the Dark energies of Malachor nearly killed Revan when he first landed, and a Force Enlightened Master of the Jedi Arts was still affected by the nexus. There simply is no way that G0-T0's hired goons can operate on Malachor safely (taking into account everything else that makes Malachor hell.

Second, G0-T0 doesn't have a fleet. He can't blockade Malachor because he doesn't have the naval power to destroy Traya's fleet. He could gather a fleet, but that takes time. By then Traya's assassins will have moved in on the Smuggler's Moon and began weakening G0-T0's powerbase.

Thirdly- this:

Can't believe I've forgotten this, but it's all very simple to me now.

 

Traya can sense groups of droids or things running on energy due to the oscillations that reverberate from them, she can easily teach this ability to her host of Sith and now Traya and her Sith Lords can sense anything large enough to give off oscillations of energy, three HK-50 droids require much more energy than three Peragus mining droids and considering that the droids will mvoe in packs, usually groups of three where Hk-50s are concerned, then it would be easy for her to sense these droids.

 

Expanding on this, it means she can detect vessels at the same time, if she teaches her Sith how to sense oscillations of energy, it means pretty much all her Sith would sense them to, stealth or no stealth.

 

Just to clarify, I'll quote my book:

 

Kreia could sense that throughout the mining facility only droids remained and no biological elements themselves remained, by sensing the oscillations of energy coming off of the machines, she was able to sense the droids in the path of the Exile, which had the effect of re-triggering Jedi precognition in her, though the former Jedi General could not learn Kreia's own technique.

The HKs can be rendered useless if this goes through.

Now, concerning Assassin infiltration. Traya only needs to slowly dissolve G0-T0's powerbase by slowly killing off his goons or 'persuading' some of them. Make movements that are difficult to detect. Take out minor goons and make it look like an insurrection in the Refugee Sector to blind G0-T0 to their actions elsewhere, such as getting Visquis in Traya's pocket.

Take out small pieces of G0-T0's powerbase. These pieces, while insignificant in their own right, will eventually stack up. Whether psychologically or morally. The psychological impact being that there is a hidden threat in the shadows that can kill you at any time. The morale impact is the fact that criminals can't spend their credits if they are dead. How many criminals are going to sign up with G0-T0 once bodies start to pile up?

Good point actually, but at some point they WILL need to de-cloak to do certain things, such as interacting, also are you positive this goes for EVERY single stealth generator G0-T0 will use?

I mean, we can assume. I don't have solid evidence. But I think G0-T0's going to have the top of the line stealth generators for a mission like this.

Also, no the droids that the Exile came across weren't shielded until she got to the mining level.

*Shrug* Can't blame me for trying.

*Snip*

I am glad you have decided to join us my old friend, I am also glad that you've joined the right side of the debate. *Palpatine grin*

And that's your problem: you can't see the obvious weaknesses of HKs.

 

Not to mention, you're restricting Kreia's powers while allowing HKs the use of various equipment. I say if HKs can have more than their blasters and onboard stunners/flamers, Kreia can have access to all of her mentioned abilities plus trainable game mechanic abilities.

.... and what weaknesses are those......?

Force powers are not simply gained on the spot. The entire point of droids is that they can be upgraded. The Force is not an upgrade. Traya doesn't gain powers by leveling up. She isn't a Force goddess that knows all the secrets.

I mean, we can assume. I don't have solid evidence. But I think G0-T0's going to have the top of the line stealth generators for a mission like this.

No I mean the droids specifically, I am fairly sure only shield generators/cloaking devices sizeable enough for vessels could commit such an advanced stealth field, personal generators cannot, as far as I have seen reading up on them.

Now, concerning Assassin infiltration. Traya only needs to slowly dissolve G0-T0's powerbase by slowly killing off his goons or 'persuading' some of them. Make movements that are difficult to detect. Take out minor goons and make it look like an insurrection in the Refugee Sector to blind G0-T0 to their actions elsewhere, such as getting Visquis in Traya's pocket.

 

Take out small pieces of G0-T0's powerbase. These pieces, while insignificant in their own right, will eventually stack up. Whether psychologically or morally. The psychological impact being that there is a hidden threat in the shadows that can kill you at any time. The morale impact is the fact that criminals can't spend their credits if they are dead. How many criminals are going to sign up with G0-T0 once bodies start to pile up?

I understand this argument, I just don't understand the impact of it.