Raid gear can have PvE only stats. <--- Important, think that one through.

PvE only stats on gear is better than PvP stats on gear because it does not cause people who don't have the time to grind WZ's all day from being gear facerolled.

PvP should be based on personal skill, NOT gear. And if you do run WZ's 10 hours a day and can't beat someone in equal gear who only queues once a week it just means you are bad and shouldn't win.

I do think heavy PvPers should be eligible for different armor and weapon skins, but there is not need AT ALL to give them a stat advantage over people who haven't had as much practice.

The advantage should come from the practice itself.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Hell, I am generally against stat bloat in the first place.

Raid gear can have PvE only stats. <--- Important, think that one through.

 

PvE only stats on gear is better than PvP stats on gear because it does not cause people who don't have the time to grind WZ's all day from being gear facerolled.

 

PvP should be based on personal skill, NOT gear. And if you do run WZ's 10 hours a day and can't beat someone in equal gear who only queues once a week it just means you are bad and shouldn't win.

 

I do think heavy PvPers should be eligible for different armor and weapon skins, but there is not need AT ALL to give them a stat advantage over people who haven't had as much practice.

 

The advantage should come from the practice itself.

 

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

 

Hell, I am generally against stat bloat in the first place.

So your "Fix" is to force people who like to PVP to also PVE? There are so many reasons why you're school of thinking is wrong.

So your "Fix" is to force people who like to PVP to also PVE? There are so many reasons why you're school of thinking is wrong.

Why would they have to PvE?

Did you even bother reading it?

I am thinking probably not.

Try again.

There would be NO advantage to PvPing in raid gear with this, therefore no need to PvE.

Edit: I mean, really, this is just sad. I just noticed that only 3 people have even bothered to view this, and the one who replied didn't read it, yet still quoted it.

There is NO reason to boost PvP gear for people who have the most PvP practice. At all.

Another way of looking at it:

What if "Expertise" was only found on raid gear and only affected PvE encounters?

Yes, I know, it would be horrible to figure out if a PvP encounter was going on for the sake of healing bonuses, but I think with the power of modern computing it could be determined.

That would give raiders what they need without making their gear any better for PvP. Which would negate the need to make PvP gear better for people who PvP a lot.

The more I think about how easy this is, and the fact that it has been brought up many times before, the more I think Bad PvPers just want a bonus to stats for being unemployed,a and are lying about the motivation.

The standing fear is that the elitest pvp players would themselves get facerolled by the unclean barbarian raider. Thus we must separate the nature of pvp from raids to protect the sanctity of pvp.

But the raid gear would not give any bonus at all to PvP.

And neither would the PvP gear.

So if they got facerolled it would be solely on skill.

Oh Noes.

Oh, and another HUGE technical consideration. It would have to affect PvE damage reduction and not HP to work right. But I think that once that is known it could also be correctly implemented.

i agree with you especially because expertise affects not just your damage but your damage reduction too.

With your system a dps with full expertise isnt getting 20% damage reduction as well as 20% damage increase thus the gap between the ungeared and the geared because smaller.

Raid gear can have PvE only stats. <--- Important, think that one through.

Whats a PvE only stat? Aim? Willpower? Crit? Surge? Power?

How are any of those stats not valuable in PvP?

Its all about relative power. In another thread I posted that PvE gear and PvP gear of the same tier is of the same relative power. All expertise does is make it so that PvP gear is not desirable to PvE players at the same relative gear level.

If a PvE player in Rakata gear goes up against a PvP player in full BM, their relative power is the same as the Rakata gears higher core stat gives the same relative power increase as expertise does on the PvP gear. Here's an example

Battlemaster Stalker's Robe vs Rakata Stalkers Robe

Rakata -

105 Endurance - 1050HP increase over base

112 Willpower - 22.4 damage bonus

Battlemasters

98 Endurance - 980 HP increase over base

94 Willpower - 18.8 damage bonus

50 Expertise - 1.3% damage increase/reduction in PvP

Rakata provides 6% more hp (70) and 16% (3.6) more relative damage when compared to the BM chest. But the BM chest provides a 1.3% in damage/reduction when engaged in PvP.

From a PvE perspective, the Rakata gear is superior. From a PvP perspective its more gray. Does the 1.3% across the board damage reduction/increase counterweigh the 3.6 damage bonus that the Rakata gear gives? Or is the Rakata gear still superior?

From what I can see, all expertise does is make PvP gear not desirable for Nightmare mode raiding as PvE gear appears to be of the same relative power, if not greater power, than PvP gear of the same tier.

The standing fear is that the elitest pvp players would themselves get facerolled by the unclean barbarian raider. Thus we must separate the nature of pvp from raids to protect the sanctity of pvp.

Basically, it's here because "our fathers did it, their fathers before them did it, and by god, I shall not break the cycle!"

Whats a PvE only stat? Aim? Willpower? Crit? Surge? Power?

How are any of those stats not valuable in PvP?

Invent a new one. Or two. One that raises damage done to PvE threats, one that lowers damage take from PvE threats.

Hell, you could even add a third. One that boosts healing only while in PvE Instances.

Use your imagination.

Whats a PvE only stat? Aim? Willpower? Crit? Surge? Power?

How are any of those stats not valuable in PvP?

 

what he is saying is make it so that expertise was on raid gear and affected your damage/mit/healing in a non pvp scenario and let the pvp gear have the higher base stats.

basically it would make it so instead of someone with 20% expertise fighting somone with 0% having a 40% advantage because of the increase damage and mitigation, they would only have the 20% increase in the area of their choice based on the actual stats

If a PvE player in Rakata gear goes up against a PvP player in full BM, their relative power is the same as the Rakata gears higher core stat gives the same relative power increase as expertise does on the PvP gear.

And my point is gear should not have much affect over PvP at all. PvE, yes, not PvP, because good PvP should be skill based. Not grind based.

Make the Rakata have PvE only bonuses, and then you still have "raid gear", but there is no need to offset PvP gear with artificial "expertise" to make up for it, as your raid gear would not boost PvP.

NO gear should boost PvP much. Make sense?

Why would they have to PvE?

 

Did you even bother reading it?

 

I am thinking probably not.

 

Try again.

 

There would be NO advantage to PvPing in raid gear with this, therefore no need to PvE.

 

Edit: I mean, really, this is just sad. I just noticed that only 3 people have even bothered to view this, and the one who replied didn't read it, yet still quoted it.

 

There is NO reason to boost PvP gear for people who have the most PvP practice. At all.

I read over it 4 or 5 times and I'm still not entirely sure what you're suggesting... Accusing people of not reading your post doesn't magically make your post any more intelligent.

Are you saying you want the stats on every single piece of armor in the game to be exactly the same? Or are you saying that the PVP and PVE gear should be identical to one another?

ure so right mr te but: most of the players just wanna pwn lowies. Sad but true

Theres no real point in argueing about it. In every Sport people try to make it as much as fair as possible. F.e. in swimming u cant use every cloth or technique to make swimsuits. There arent some people swimming naked with long open hair and other ones with jet packs...

what he is saying is make it so that expertise was on raid gear and affected your damage/mit/healing in a non pvp scenario and let the pvp gear have the higher base stats.

 

basically it would make it so instead of someone with 20% expertise fighting somone with 0% having a 40% advantage because of the increase damage and mitigation, they would only have the 20% increase in the area of their choice based on the actual stats

At that point, there is no need for 2 stats. Just make them mean one thing in PvE and one thing in PvP, but then there is no disparity between PvE and PvP gear from a relative power perspective. That means that players will go for the gear that requires less effort to obtain. Still doesn't explain why Expertise is not needed.

Expertise is something you should have imo. Not something given as a stat. So I agree. Seems like a rather dumb stat but that is just one shadow's opinion.

Expertise, imo, is something you should have outside of the game, from practice and teamwork, and should not be a stat at all. Although it could be measured, based on your performance.

And my point is gear should not have much affect over PvP at all. PvE, yes, not PvP, because good PvP should be skill based. Not grind based.

 

Make the Rakata have PvE only bonuses, and then you still have "raid gear", but there is no need to offset PvP gear with artificial "expertise" to make up for it, as your raid gear would not boost PvP.

 

NO gear should boost PvP much. Make sense?

I get that, but the only way to obtain that is with hard stat caps, which is not possible in a gear for progression model MMO. Thats why gear will always matter. Its about making it so that it doesn't DEFINE the player and that different tiers of gear's relative power does not overwhelm those players with gear of lower relative power.

Would you say that if the difference in relative power between lvl 50 base gear and BM gear was only about 3% that gear is the difference? What about 5%? 8%?

At what point does gear completely compensate for lack of skill?

I read over it 4 or 5 times and I'm still not entirely sure what you're suggesting... Accusing people of not reading your post doesn't magically make your post any more intelligent.

 

Are you saying you want the stats on every single piece of armor in the game to be exactly the same? Or are you saying that the PVP and PVE gear should be identical to one another?

The reason I though you hadn't read it is because your first reply was

"So your "Fix" is to force people who like to PVP to also PVE?"

This does not make sense as I (thought) I made it clear that PvE armor would not be any better than PvP armor for the sake of PvPing.

I answer to our second question, I thin that Raid Gear, L 50 Crafted Gear, and L 50 PvP reward gear should be aprox equal for the sake of PvPing, because I think PvP should be skill based.

For the sake of raiding, you need to give a bonus to the raid sets, but just make those PvE only bonuses, so they won't effect PvP.

Why are people so opposed to that?

Are you afraid you will get facerolled 1v1 w/o a two week gear grind advantage at all times?

Your suggestion means that PvE gear is good for both PvE and PvP.

PvP gear is only good for PvP.

Problem?

I get that, but the only way to obtain that is with hard stat caps, which is not possible in a gear for progression model MMO. Thats why gear will always matter. Its about making it so that it doesn't DEFINE the player and that different tiers of gear's relative power does not overwhelm those players with gear of lower relative power.

 

Would you say that if the difference in relative power between lvl 50 base gear and BM gear was only about 3% that gear is the difference? What about 5%? 8%?

 

At what point does gear completely compensate for lack of skill?

Why is it necessary for raid progression gear to affect PvP stats? Why can't it just effect PvE stats? (Even if those stats have yet to be created.0

And why does PvP gear need to "progress" at all?

Your suggestion means that PvE gear is good for both PvE and PvP.

PvP gear is only good for PvP.

 

 

Problem?

As has been mentioned many times before, deep raiding is harder to organize than joining a warzone.

As you raid more and more, the enemies must get harder and harder, or there is no point.

Raid gear, therefore, is almost always "better" than PvP gear. That is the base problem.

It is currently alleviated in almost all MMO's by boosting "PvP only" stats in PvP gear.

This has the unfortunate side effect of making PvP non-skill based, and grind based instead. This turns a lot of people off. Esp. those with jobs and such.

What I , and others, are suggesting, is going back to the base problem, and assigning PvE only buffs to raid gear, and leaving PvP skill based.

Your suggestion means that PvE gear is good for both PvE and PvP.

PvP gear is only good for PvP.

 

 

Problem?

its already like this except that expertise boosts your survivability as well as damage and healing.... so what he is suggesting is that expertise exist in the PvEside of the game and just let base stats be for PvP so you dont get doubly boosted in both defense and offense from the same stat

As has been mentioned many times before, deep raiding is harder to organize than joining a warzone.

 

As you raid more and more, the enemies must get harder and harder, or there is no point.

 

Raid gear, therefore, is almost always "better" than PvP gear. That is the base problem.

 

It is currently alleviated in almost all MMO's by boosting "PvP only" stats in PvP gear.

 

This has the unfortunate side effect of making PvP non-skill based, and grind based instead. This turns a lot of people off. Esp. those with jobs and such.

 

What I , and others, are suggesting, is going back to the base problem, and assigning PvE only buffs to raid gear, and leaving PvP skill based.

So how does the PvP'er advance his/her gear to catch up with the next raid tier?

So how does the PvP'er advance his/her gear to catch up with the next raid tier?

If you are a raider, then by raiding.

If you are not a raider, and only PvP, there is no need to "advance" gear. (Although I think you should be eligible for custom skins and such.)

As far as PvP is concerned there is nothing to catch up to, as the raid gear only benefits in PvE.