Welcome to another exciting edition of The BattleZone! I apologize for the long delay, but better late than never.

 

Our previous match saw Asajj Ventress defeat Darth Maul through superior planning and tactics.

 

This match will see the Jedi double-agent Quinlan Vos face Asajj Ventress' monster.

 

Battlefield: Devaron

 

Lightsaber Skill:

 

Quinlan Vos:

 

Quinlan Vos was a master of the fourth form of lightsaber combat, Ataru, and he was trained in Shien. He was also trained in Makashi by Count Dooku during his time as a double-agent.

 

Most notably, Quinlan Vos was trained to use Vaapad by Sora Bulq. During their final confrontation, Vos mastered the mental and spiritual aspects of Vaapad by taking in Sora Bulq's darkness and still remaining a Jedi. He had achieved a greater mastery of the form than Sora Bulq had, and was speculated by Mace Windu to have a greater mastery than he let on.

 

While Quinlan Vos had mastered the mental and spiritual aspects of Vaapad, he was only taught the basic lightsaber maneuvers of the form.

 

Savage Opress:

 

Savage Opress is unskilled. At least in the sense that skill is defined. Savage relies on raw power and brute force to overwhelm his opponents. This is crude, but effective, and has allowed him to defeat opponents such as Adi Gallia, Asajj Ventress, and Count Dooku.

 

Savage's reliance on brute force is effective, but leaves him at a disadvantage against agile opponents. However, he did possess some agility to deal with agile opponents.

 

Edge: Even though Quinlan Vos was warned by Mace Windu to never use Vaapad, this was prior to his final duel with Sora Bulq. It is likely that Vos will use Vaapad against Savage, which gives him the edge.

 

Physicality:

 

Quinlan Vos:

 

Quinlan Vos is an average built Kiffar. He is very agile, but, other than that, has no other physical advantages or detriments.

 

Savage Opress:

 

The use of Nightsister Magic on Savage has greatly enhanced his physical capabilities. He has increased strength and endurance. He is also resistant to pain, able to shrug off most blows and even lightsaber wounds.

 

Edge: While Quinlan Vos is quick, Savage Opress is simply built superior thanks to the Nightsister magics.

 

Mentality:

 

Quinlan Vos:

 

Quinlan Vos showed a "do what must be done" attitude that proved vital in maintaining his cover. He was forced to battle his fellow Jedi, and commit evil acts.

 

Vos was also devoted to the Light Side, proving able to resist his inner darkness and master the mental and spiritual aspects of Vaapad.

 

However, Vos is prone to mental irritation. Taunting, or the Sith tactic Don Moch, are able to provoke him into a violent rage.

 

Savage Opress:

 

Savage Opress is a brutal warrior. He held a very strong will and little remorse. After his transformation, he was more than willing to kill his brother and other innocent beings. He was loyal to his Sith Lord brother and Mother Talzin. He also relishes in seeing his enemies suffer.

 

Savage Opress eventually became a level-headed warrior, but still lacked tactical forethought, and often acted without thinking of the consequences.

 

Edge: Both of them hold similar combat mentalities, resulting in a difficult decision in this area. While Quinlan Vos is prone to being enraged, it is unlikely that Savage has any familiarity with Dun Moch, and has never been shown to taunt his foes in combat. However, Savage's lack of forethought and disregard of consequences can be exploited by cunning warriors. Quinlan Vos gets the edge.

 

Force Abilities:

 

Quinlan Vos:

 

Quinlan Vos had the natural ability to use psychometry, an ability that lets him read images from objects or the dead. During his training with Count Dooku, this ability was expanded upon, giving Vos the ability to read the living. This allowed him to pry memories from the minds of his enemies.

 

Quinlan Vos was also capable of dark side Force techniques such as Force lightning, but his application of the technique was fairly weak. Count Dooku further instructed him in these techniques during Vos' time as a double-agent.

 

Savage Opress:

 

After his transformation, Savage Opress became a powerful Dark Side force user. He was proficient in the use of Force Choke. He was also capable of using Force Repulse instinctively.

 

Edge: While Quinlan Vos is a powerful Jedi, many of his combative applications of the Force are fairly weak compared to Savage's brute power.

 

(Note that when I give the edge to someone, it is only my opinion)

 

So who will win? Who is truly superior?

Edited May 25, 2013 by Aurbere

Accidentaly copied in the Vodo Baas vs. Thon title. Hence the "Reboot"

Vos, I mean while Savage is good in some respects such as strength and will. In the end he is just a big brute who lacks any real skill in using a lightsaber, noting that its sloppy and unrefined along with his tactical forethought that is gonna be his downfall here. While Savage did kill Adi Gallia, she never really made a big impression for me in terms of her fighting ability.

Disclaimer: I promise not to change sides this time, promise!

 

Anyway, I'm rooting for Savage Oppress. Why? Two words: RAW POWER.

 

This man, if he can even be called that, is a tank and can power through practically anything. First let's just go other a few of his feats pertaining to power:

 

 

• bats away battle droids, clone troopers and a Jedi Padawan with a halberd. I mean just look at that guy, he is seriously pumped on Nightsister juice.
   
   
  
• With a single lightsaber strike Savage managed to send Dooku flying across the room, knocking his lightsaber out of his hand and momentarily stunning him.
   
   
  
• In a similar manner, he knocked both Kenobi and Anakin off their feet after charging at them, sending them flying against the adjacent wall.
   
   
  
• Sustained and absorbed blaster fire at nigh point-blank range from at least 3 droidekas a half a dozen or so B1 battle droids and another half-dozen B2's. Yet took seemingly no physical damage.
   
   
  
• In mid-battle, he ripped Jedi Master Plo Koon's mask from his face.
   
   
  
• Survived being blasted at with starfighter laser cannons.
   
   
  
• Overwhelmed Jedi Council member Adi Gallia through brute force.
   
   
  
• Sustained 4 kicks from Adi and Obi-Wan before on the 5th his leg finally gave way.
   
   
  
• Headbutted Darth Sidious THE Dark Lord of the Sith which sent him flying off the platform.
   
   
  
• And then this, just because.
  

 

With this kind of strength and endurance on his side Quinlan Vos will simply be blown away. His lightsaber skills will be rendered relatively useless in the same way it would be useless to attempt to defend against a moving truck with a sword. KAPOW.

 

Nonetheless Opress' lightsaber skills are far from lacking, and more than sufficient to go toe-to-toe with Vos. Opress may have begun sloppily but he technique quickly grew refined. Able to go toe-to-toe with Plo Koon (whom he would likely have killed) and did kill Adi Gallia, a Jedi Council Member who was supposedly highly skilled with a lightsaber. And finally he managed to go toe-to-toe with Darth Sidious. Albeit with the help of his brother but nonetheless their 'tag-team' style was flawless and Savage managed to keep up with Sidious' agility. Indeed his incredible speed is obvious with his duel with the Jedi Master of Devaron, whose attacks he easily dodged and then proceeded to swiftly disarm the Jedi and kill him.

 

He force abilities will also give him a considerable edge. He has frequently shown use of the Force, outside and inside combat. In particular he managed to Force push a T-6 shuttle of its landing platform and used to the Force to blast Obi and Anakin off him and in an immense Force wave destroy dozens of battle droids and knock Obi and Anakin to the ground again.

 

So altogether, while Vos may have an edge in lightsaber combat his skills are not strong enough to completely overwhelm Savage, who is also a highly competent duelist. And ultimately he will be himself overwhelmed by a combination of brute strength and Force prowess from Savage. Savage wins.

 

P.S. Aurbere you can change the title if you want by editing your OP... though it might be to late now.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Beniboybling

Vos, I mean while Savage is good in some respects such as strength and will. In the end he is just a big brute who lacks any real skill in using a lightsaber, noting that its sloppy and unrefined along with his tactical forethought that is gonna be his downfall here. While Savage did kill Adi Gallia, she never really made a big impression for me in terms of her fighting ability.

Sloppy and unrefined? See , despite being exhausted he lasts roughly 14 times longer than some of the most skilled lightsaber duelists of the Jedi Order manage to do against Sidious. A vast improvement from before when he could not even land a hit against Dooku (although when he did Dooku was sent flying.)

 

And before that, in his less skilled stages, he managed to hold his own against Kenobi and Anakin and push them back on the defensive with fairly refined and precise attacks - making clever and effective use of his double-bladed weapon. Which may I add is an extremely difficult weapon to master. Then he proceeds to display an impressive feat of blaster deflection matched only by a Soresu master.

 

Still, he is no master. Yet he does possess sufficient skill.[/color]

Edited May 25, 2013 by Beniboybling

Sloppy and unrefined? See

, despite being exhausted he lasts roughly 14 times longer than some of the most skilled lightsaber duelists of the Jedi Order manage to do against Sidious. A vast improvement from before when he could not even land a hit against Dooku (although when he did Dooku was sent flying.)

 

And before that, in his less skilled stages, he managed to hold his own against Kenobi and Anakin and push them back on the defensive with fairly refined and precise attacks. Then proceeds to display an impressive feat of blaster deflection matched only by a Soresu master.

 

Still, he is no master. Yet he does possess sufficient skill.[/color]

 

Compared to others? Yes his skill with a saber is mostly relying on brute strength not so much actual skill, that isn't to say he doesn't have any but he is more a bull rusher...and yes that Sidious fight and then what happens when he was separated from Maul? He was killed, and really TCW seemed to water down some of the characters to make for more exciting duels but even then Sidious seemed to just make a game of it.

 

All I am seeing in that vid with him fighting Obi-Wan and Anakin is them being pushed back by his brute strength, they hardly dueled him at all given the next scene we see is all of them fighting against droids.

 

His brute strength is what gives him an edge in dueling, but that will only get him so far.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Beni, if I may point something out real quick.

 

You suggest that Savage could have killed Plo Koon. On this I agree. But not through superior Lightsaber skill. Just moments before Savage took Plo Koon's mask off, Plo Koon nearly removed Savage's leg.

 

I am of the opinion that, had Plo Koon's mask not been removed, he would have bested Savage, or Maul would have intervened (consdiering that he had just schooled two Jedi Masters when Savage got Plo Koon's mask away).

 

Just my opinion. I guess we won't know what would have happened because Savage is a cheating scumbag.

Compared to others? Yes his skill with a saber is mostly relying on brute strength not so much actual skill, that isn't to say he doesn't have any but he is more a bull rusher...and yes that Sidious fight and then what happens when he was separated from Maul? He was killed with rather ease.

 

All I am seeing in that vid with him fighting Obi-Wan and Anakin is them being pushed back by his brute strength, they hardly dueled him at all given the next scene we see is all of them fighting against droids.

Who isn't? This is Darth Sidious we are talking about whom despite being outnumbered managed to slaughter three Jedi Council members and highly skilled duelists within seconds.

 

Yes he uses brute strength, but is that so bad? In his duel with Kenobi and Anakin he uses that strength to keep two of the most skilled lightsaber duelists of the day on the defensive. However I'm am arguing that Opress has enough skill go toe-to-toe with Vos, rather than being completely evaded like he was with Dooku. He has strength and the skill to apply it.

 

And next we see him deflect blaster bolts from 15+ shooters, roughly three of which are Droideka's which possess twin blaster cannons with enough firepower to send Jedi running. Note that a Soresu master's limit was roughly 20 shooters. Oppress has likely no training whatsoever in Soresu and yet managed to defend against 15 for a short period of time. That is impressive and a testament to his skill and ability to both learn and adapt exceptionally quickly.

 

Also note my edit, Oppress is wielding a saberstaff and to quote Wookieepedia:

 

Special training was required to wield the weapon effectively, with those attempting to use it without such discipline likely to bisect or impale themselves.

 

Someone lacking in skill with a lightsaber would not be able to wield a saberstaff. Another testament to his natural abilities and quick learning. Also such an exotic weapon would give him a further edge against Vos.

 

P.S. Aurbere what you say is true, but it is a display of one thing: how Savage is able to overwhelm and defeat more skilled opponents with unexpected and immense strength. Just take a look at Dooku - far far more skilled yet disarmed with a single strike. And Vos can't rely on lightning to save him if the same thing happens.

Well Savage before hand was already skilled in using pole like weapons, so a saberstaff wouldn't be anything new to him as he would already be accustomed to it while wielding Nightsister weapons. As far as basic application is applied, he may need to learn some more finer things to it but the basics it seemed he would already have it pat down.

 

Am not saying his brute strength won't work for him, it clearly does however it won't save him forever.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Well Savage before hand was already skilled in using pole like weapons, so a saberstaff wouldn't be anything new to him as he would already be accustomed to it while wielding Nightsister weapons. As far as basic application is applied, he may need to learn some more finer things to it but the basics it seemed he would already have it pat down.

 

Am not saying his brute strength won't work for him, it clearly does however it won't save him forever.

That is true, I didn't consider that. Oppress was likely skilled with a Zhaboka as Maul was.

 

And unless Vos can evade or outsmart Opress - brute strength will be his doom. And I believe any application of tactics will come to little too late. Opress will hit hard and fast and deflect any spin balls with Force-based attacks.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Beniboybling

Though should note, I think Vos would really just need to worry about Savage's strength not so much skill. As Vos has taken and beat Sora Bulq a Jedi Weapon Master who had dueled Windu and the fight only ended with the latter used a Force Push, and also beating K'Kruhk who survived encounters with Ventress and Grevious. (Though he didn't kill the latter).

 

So this really comes down to if Vos can withstand the vicious strength blows that Savage can deal, which considering Vos is rather quick and agile I can see him doing just that. Though it should be noted, Vos has kinda already fought opponents who were large and strong, K'Kruhk who was a Whiphid and they could be 2.5 meters(8 feet) and weigh in at 400 pounds.

 

Though Savage being fueled by Nightsister magic probably changes that, but just showing Vos has taken on big and strong opponents before.

Though should note, I think Vos would really just need to worry about Savage's strength not so much skill. As Vos has taken and beat Sora Bulq a Jedi Weapon Master who had dueled Windu and the fight only ended with the latter used a Force Push, and also beating K'Kruhk who survived encounters with Ventress and Grevious. (Though he didn't kill the latter).

 

So this really comes down to if Vos can withstand the vicious strength blows that Savage can deal, which considering Vos is rather quick and agile I can see him doing just that. Though it should be noted, Vos has kinda already fought opponents who were large and strong, K'Kruhk who was a Whiphid and they could be 2.5 meters(8 feet) and weigh in at 400 pounds.

 

Though Savage being fueled by Nightsister magic probably changes that, but just showing Vos has taken on big and strong opponents before.

Concerning Bulq vs Vos, I wouldn't say so. According to Wookieepedia Bulq actually easily defeated Vos but in a moment of clarity Vos mastered his inner darkness, spun around and killed Bulq who was about to deal a killing blow. Really Bulq was the superior duelist but at the least the duel was inconclusive

 

And K'Khruhk may be big and heavy, but Opress himself was 2.18 metres and was himself 330 pounds. Add Nighsister magic to that and he's at least twice as strong if not more. Let's not forget that Opress is quick and agile too. So the chances that Vos could evade some if any of his attacks are slim. Remembering that well before he reached the pinnacle of his skills even Dooku was unable to evade every blow from Savage. Given that Savage is now all the more skilled and Vos all the less skilled that Dooku, I'd say its a slim chance.

 

Finally, Vos wields both Ataru and Vaapad. Both highly aggressive forms but entirely lacking in any real form of defense whatsoever. Opress with his brute strength will be pushing a defensive Vos will therefore find difficult to block, and even if he does push the defensive, Opress' very wielding of a saberstaff gives him a considerable defensive edge. And he has already shown himself able to deflect blaster fire from multiple opponents at close range and from all sides, and managed to defend against Sidious' attacks for a short amount of time, implying a strong defense.

 

I think in a duel Vos will inevitably be disarmed and it will go down hill for Vos from there.

Concerning Bulq vs Vos, I wouldn't say so. According to Wookieepedia Bulq actually easily defeated Vos but in a moment of clarity Vos mastered his inner darkness, spun around and killed Bulq who was about to deal a killing blow. Really Bulq was the superior duelist but at the least the duel was inconclusive

 

And K'Khruhk may be big and heavy, but Opress himself was 2.18 metres and was himself 330 pounds. Add Nighsister magic to that and he's at least twice as strong if not more. Let's not forget that Opress is quick and agile too. So the chances that Vos could evade some if any of his attacks are slim. Remembering that well before he reached the pinnacle of his skills even Dooku was unable to evade every blow from Savage. Given that Savage is now all the more skilled and Vos all the less skilled that Dooku, I'd say its a slim chance.

 

Finally, Vos wields both Ataru and Vaapad. Both highly aggressive forms but entirely lacking in any real form of defense whatsoever. Opress with his brute strength will be pushing a defensive Vos will therefore find difficult to block, and even if he does push the defensive, Opress' very wielding of a saberstaff gives him a considerable defensive edge. And he has already shown himself able to deflect blaster fire from multiple opponents at close range and from all sides, and managed to defend against Sidious' attacks for a short amount of time, implying a strong defense.

 

I think in a duel Vos will inevitably be disarmed and it will go down hill for Vos from there.

 

Hmm...actually double checking, K'Khruhk would weigh in at 881 pounds I missed the 400 kilos part bit and looking that up 400 kilos is 881 pounds. Savage was 2.18 meters after the transformation, before he was the standard Zabrak height of 1.8 meters.

 

Though yes Savage does wield his saber staff, it too is not without its flaws. It is an easy target with the hilt to be destroyed, and it is limited with movements hence how Obi-Wan as a Padawan was able to destroy Maul's saber during their first duel. While Maul isn't amped by Nightsister magic and is stronger then Maul, the saberstaff still has the weakness.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

We should remember the natural traits of Vaapad. It acts as an amp, drawing on the darkness of the foe and the user to form a superconducting loop. Basically giving Quinlan Vos an amp for his skills.

 

But, like I note in the OP, Vos has only a basic knowledge of the form. However, he does have a mastery over the mental and spiritual aspects of the form.

 

Just something to consider.

We should remember the natural traits of Vaapad. It acts as an amp, drawing on the darkness of the foe and the user to form a superconducting loop. Basically giving Quinlan Vos an amp for his skills.

 

This. Given the RAGE with which Savage fights, Quinlan will just suck it up, use it to get stronger, and then Savage gets madder, and Quinlan sucks even more up, and Savage gets madder...endless cycle of "Quinlan-gets-stronger." Now, Savage's skills are not inconsiderable, but even though he was able to hold his own against Ventress, Dooku, Adi, and Anakin and Obi-Wan, not to mention Darth Sidious, he was unable to beat any of them, except for Adi Gallia. He lasted for quite some time against Sidious, but once Maul was taken out of the picture, Sidious toyed with Savage and took him out in short order. I think if Quinlan could survive long enough to get into the flow of Vaapad, then Savage would die in a rather short time. However, Savage whoops Quinlan across the room before Quinlan even has a chance to draw his lightsaber, maybe Savage could skewer Quinlan on his horns (like he did Adi Gallia), and then finish him off. However, Quinlan could take advantage of the same weakness Obi-Wan and Adi Gallia did. If he repeatedly kicks him in the leg, he'd give out, and given Quinlan's speed and the skill with which he can use Vaapad, it's quite a possibility.

[*]With a single lightsaber strike Savage managed to send Dooku flying across the room, knocking his lightsaber out of his hand and momentarily stunning him.

True, but you also have Dooku, who is much older and physically weaker than Savage getting up and fighting extremely well afterward. Also, Dooku decimates Opress with lighting. Vos learned his skill from one of the masters of lighting- Dooku himself.

[*]In a similar manner, he knocked both Kenobi and Anakin off their feet after charging at them, sending them flying against the adjacent wall.

He was in a rage, which fulled him with the darkside. Vos's vaapad will take advantage of this, and use it against him. We also should take into account how close to the darkside Vos is. If he snapped he would be fueled with just as much ferocity as Opress was. That would not be good for Opress. Also, in the battle of

, we see Ventress using martial arts and punches on Opress. Vos is a master of ataru and will also be able to use his speed in such a manner.

True, but you also have Dooku, who is much older and physically weaker than Savage getting up and fighting extremely well afterward. Also, Dooku decimates Opress with lighting. Vos learned his skill from one of the masters of lighting- Dooku himself. [/color]

I can only find evidence of Vos using lightning for torture, and that was before he was trained by Dooku and as a Jedi... that's kinda confusing. Can we get clarification that? However he was never seemed to use it in battle.

He was in a rage, which fulled him with the darkside. Vos's vaapad will take advantage of this, and use it against him. We also should take into account how close to the darkside Vos is. If he snapped he would be fueled with just as much ferocity as Opress was. That would not be good for Opress. Also, in the battle of

, we see Ventress using martial arts and punches on Opress. Vos is a master of ataru and will also be able to use his speed in such a manner.

Vos may wield Vaapad, but he remains a Jedi and seems only to use it as a last resort. Given that it's unlikely he will use it instantaneously giving Opress ample opportunity to disarm Vos and dispatch him. Without his lightsaber Vos' skill with Vaapad will be rendered useless.

 

And yes Ventress used martial arts against Opress but to what effect? Very little. Opress was relatively unphased by the attack and Ventress was only delaying the inevitable (also note that Opress quickly disarmed Ventress using his strength) and then we have

After disarming a Jedi Master said master unleashes a martial arts attack, it has no effect.

 

In fact I'd go as far to say that Vos' martial abilities will act as a disadvantage. In a similar way to Adi Vos' unsuccessful attacks will phase him and likely create an opening that Opress can exploit.

 

I think shock factor will be Savage' biggest advantage here. Vos will be initially overwhelmed by Savage's powerful assault. And I am confident that Savage can generate a similar level of momentum and power that he displays when fighting Anakin and Kenobi. He is practically pumped on rage 24/7 evident from the way in which he destroys a squad of elite clone troopers and 2 Jedi in less than 50 seconds. Any attempt from Vos to throw Savage off with a martial attack will fail and only allow Savage to push the offensive harder. Vos will be quickly disarmed and have to rely solely on martial arts which will prove useless, if Savage can keep him from his weapon he'll inevitably be dispatched.

 

But in the event that Vos does manage to employ Vaapad Savage can fall back on his Force powers in which he possessed immense strength and affinity. A powerful Force push chained into his attack will be enough to send Vos flying and possible even disarm him. But at the least it will allow Savage to push the offensive and overwhelm his weak defenses. Also remembering that Savage's own excellent defense will prove proficient against any attack that Vos can dish out.

 

I think we should also consider the nature of Form VII. Juyo is designed to dish out attacks but it cannot take it. Vaapad solves this problem, allowing the user to absorb the attack in superconducting loop. However this only account for lightsaber attacks and only highly skilled practitioners could absorb Force based attacks. Yes Savage wields a lightsaber but he will not defeat Vos through breaking through his defenses and landing a blow. He will defeat Vos simply by breaking him. Again the analogy of defending against a moving truck with a sword. It may seem exaggerated and farfetched but this is essentially the best way to describe it. Vaapad may allow Vos to effortless block, parry etc. but not absorb the raw force that Savage will release witch will simply batter Vos away. A connecting blow is enough to send Vos flying. I'm not saying Vos will be WTFpwned but that his skills with a lightsaber are not designed to counter Savage's kind of attack. Which is in fact quite unique.

 

P.S. Also note that despite his age Count Dooku was in excellent physical health, I don't think he can really be referred to as weak nor do I think Vos is strong enough to resist such a blow without at least getting knocked down.

However, Quinlan could take advantage of the same weakness Obi-Wan and Adi Gallia did. If he repeatedly kicks him in the leg, he'd give out, and given Quinlan's speed and the skill with which he can use Vaapad, it's quite a possibility.

I wouldn't really call it a weakness as such. I don't want to use the word plot device but we should consider that Savage's muscles and bone are far far more durable than most biologicals. I suppose this is evident from the fact that is took 5 kicks for Savage's leg to give way. Oh and that's another thing, I forgot to mention one of his most impressive feats!

 

Despite having a broken leg and a severed arm he still managed to escape Florrum despite being chased by pirates and half carrying his brother. In fact I'd question whether Kenobi managed to break it at all, or at least ascribe Opress excellent vitality and fortitude. Given the fact he was perfectly capable of exertive movement and did not seem in any pain whatoever moments after suffering grievous injuries. Just look

 

If you couldn't see it, you wouldn't even know that his arm was severed. I mean, do we remember what happened when Anakin lost his arm? He was rendered unconscious.

 

So even if Vos managed to 'break' his leg (if that's even what happened) Savage would only be momentarily phased and could likely use his rage to carry on fighting. Even if he lost an arm he wouldn't be out of it.

 

In fact I'm confident that Savage could sustain any cuts or blows that Vos manages to land on Opress, not only is his armour extremely durable, but Savage possess excellent fortitude as well. This will only add to the shock factor as Vos will expect such attacks to cripple him or at least provide an opposing for a finishing blow, and how many times have we seen the 'killed just as he's about to kill the other guy' trope? It could happen.

 

P.S. As an addition, even when he was stabbed in the chest with two blades and chucked of a ledge he managed to stay alive long enough to speak with his brother. Impressive. Most impressive.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Beniboybling

I have a question, where specifically on Devaron. The temple? A jungle? There are many places that could be used when we are simply saying a planet.

I can only find evidence of Vos using lightning for torture, and that was before he was trained by Dooku and as a Jedi... that's kinda confusing. Can we get clarification that? However he was never seemed to use it in battle.Vos may wield Vaapad, but he remains a Jedi and seems only to use it as a last resort. Given that it's unlikely he will use it instantaneously giving Opress ample opportunity to disarm Vos and dispatch him. Without his lightsaber Vos' skill with Vaapad will be rendered useless.

 

And yes Ventress used martial arts against Opress but to what effect? Very little. Opress was relatively unphased by the attack and Ventress was only delaying the inevitable (also note that Opress quickly disarmed Ventress using his strength) and then we have

After disarming a Jedi Master said master unleashes a martial arts attack, it has no effect.

 

In fact I'd go as far to say that Vos' martial abilities will act as a disadvantage. In a similar way to Adi Vos' unsuccessful attacks will phase him and likely create an opening that Opress can exploit.

 

I think shock factor will be Savage' biggest advantage here. Vos will be initially overwhelmed by Savage's powerful assault. And I am confident that Savage can generate a similar level of momentum and power that he displays when fighting Anakin and Kenobi. He is practically pumped on rage 24/7 evident from the way in which he destroys a squad of elite clone troopers and 2 Jedi in less than 50 seconds. Any attempt from Vos to throw Savage off with a martial attack will fail and only allow Savage to push the offensive harder. Vos will be quickly disarmed and have to rely solely on martial arts which will prove useless, if Savage can keep him from his weapon he'll inevitably be dispatched.

 

But in the event that Vos does manage to employ Vaapad Savage can fall back on his Force powers in which he possessed immense strength and affinity. A powerful Force push chained into his attack will be enough to send Vos flying and possible even disarm him. But at the least it will allow Savage to push the offensive and overwhelm his weak defenses. Also remembering that Savage's own excellent defense will prove proficient against any attack that Vos can dish out.

 

I think we should also consider the nature of Form VII. Juyo is designed to dish out attacks but it cannot take it. Vaapad solves this problem, allowing the user to absorb the attack in superconducting loop. However this only account for lightsaber attacks and only highly skilled practitioners could absorb Force based attacks. Yes Savage wields a lightsaber but he will not defeat Vos through breaking through his defenses and landing a blow. He will defeat Vos simply by breaking him. Again the analogy of defending against a moving truck with a sword. It may seem exaggerated and farfetched but this is essentially the best way to describe it. Vaapad may allow Vos to effortless block, parry etc. but not absorb the raw force that Savage will release witch will simply batter Vos away. A connecting blow is enough to send Vos flying. I'm not saying Vos will be WTFpwned but that his skills with a lightsaber are not designed to counter Savage's kind of attack. Which is in fact quite unique.

 

P.S. Also note that despite his age Count Dooku was in excellent physical health, I don't think he can really be referred to as weak nor do I think Vos is strong enough to resist such a blow without at least getting knocked down.

 

He would get knocked down, but his physicality would allow him to get up far faster. This, coupled with his lighting would put a damper on Savage. His lighting is a question, but I'm confident he would use it. He used it in torture against his enemy, why wouldn't he use it against an active enemy?

 

The topic a Vaapad is a debate though. In his spare with Windu, he found himself using Vaapad subconsciously. He was trained in it by the co-creator during his time a double agent. Vos also would get into the heat of battle, and this is what truly powers Vaapad. He could couple his Vaapad with his mastery of ataru, his elements of Makashi, and a defense of Shien.

 

And you are wrong with Dooku not teaching him, or are at least according to Wookie.

While working undercover, Dooku personally trained Quinlan Vos in the Dark Side and in a variety of Dark Side Force powers including Force-lightning, force choke, telekinesis, and to tame animals and bend them to his will, most notably a krayt dragon.

He was powerful in the Force, and was personally taught be Dooku. He could also hide his presence as seen in the assassination of Senator Viento and he was very adept in Force Cloak. He could strike from the shadows at Opress and could effectively hide his presence from him.

We should also note his skill in psychometry. He could, in theory (depending on the location) hide and probe Opress's brain for weaknesses. He could also get hold of any thing Opress had used from his lightsaber to a piece of armor and find a weakness. While it isn't very effective in battle, he could slice the saber staff in half, then use force cloak to get away, then use psychometry to find the weakness. Or simply hide and use psychometry directly on Opress.

He would get knocked down, but his physicality would allow him to get up far faster. This, coupled with his lighting would put a damper on Savage. His lighting is a question, but I'm confident he would use it. He used it in torture against his enemy, why wouldn't he use it against an active enemy?

 

The topic a Vaapad is a debate though. In his spare with Windu, he found himself using Vaapad subconsciously. He was trained in it by the co-creator during his time a double agent. Vos also would get into the heat of battle, and this is what truly powers Vaapad. He could couple his Vaapad with his mastery of ataru, his elements of Makashi, and a defense of Shien.

 

And you are wrong with Dooku not teaching him, or are at least according to Wookie.

He was powerful in the Force, and was personally taught be Dooku. He could also hide his presence as seen in the assassination of Senator Viento and he was very adept in Force Cloak. He could strike from the shadows at Opress and could effectively hide his presence from him.

Concerning lightning, its problematic. Yes Vos was taught by Dooku but he uses lightining before his training, and as a Jedi! To me this makes little sense and after a quick search it seems its even more complex than I thought. See this Wookiee talk thread.

 

I would agree with that many of them are saying that Vos' use of lightining prior to him being trained, and the lightining itself flowing from the ground, is a violation of canon. Or at least it cannot be consider Force lightning but

Electric judgement of something or another. Basically it makes no sense and Vos has never used it in battle. Given that it is essentially a Sith move (and this is Jedi Vos post turning to the dark side right?) so I doubt he would use it. He also was apparently under the influence of rage and hatred and given that he has not been trained the move must be instinctive. Not something he can deliberately use in battle unless he falls under the influence of the dark side which is unlikely to happen.

 

I also doubt Dooku trained him in lightsaber combat, not only did he usually keep such secrets from his apprentices but to assume so is pure speculation as we have no evidence to suggest it is the case.

 

So yeah, I would vote lightning as a non-factor. I think its too much of an assumption to say he can use it in battle and do so deliberately. Also remembering that he has never done so before.

 

If he uses Vaapad, the same argument I used above applies, Opress can counter it with Force powers or simply overwhelming force. And any strikes Vos lands can be endured. And Shien, if he actually wields it (were are you getting this from exactly - not saying that in an accusatory way just curious given it doesn't seem to be on his Wookiee page) is not particular effective against anything other than blaster fire in terms of defense and particularly weak against a single opponent. In fact I think that was the form favoured by Adi, and well, you know the rest. Makashi will also act against him, as it is ineffective against power attacks, which may have been partly the reason why Dooku was knocked back so easily. And then of course Vaapad and Ataru have a weak/non-existent defense, which Opress will be pushing him on.

 

And finally, in a heated battle, against a highly aggressive and relentless duelist, the chances that Vos will have time to cloak his presence with the Force are very slim indeed. Any attempt to do so would require a deal of concentration which would only lead to Vos exposing himself to attack. Evident from the fact he has never applied this tactic in battle.

We should also note his skill in psychometry. He could, in theory (depending on the location) hide and probe Opress's brain for weaknesses. He could also get hold of any thing Opress had used from his lightsaber to a piece of armor and find a weakness. While it isn't very effective in battle, he could slice the saber staff in half, then use force cloak to get away, then use psychometry to find the weakness. Or simply hide and use psychometry directly on Opress.

Psychometry can only be used to pick up impressions and information about objects, not to probe minds or find weaknesses. If he say gets hold of Opress saber all he'll see is Opress killing tons of Jedi and will likely get scared and try to run away.

 

One also has to be in contact with the object and I'm not sure it works on people. But again, it was be next to useless as all Vos would gain is knowledge of its past and perhaps some insight into Opress' pent up rage - which will not be very helpful. Also note the following from Wookieepedia: 'This skill was useful for tracking though it was not useful in open battle and would fail to render useful information at times.'

 

It will only get Vos killed or inflict Vos with Opress' rage which will render his refined forms useless.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Beniboybling

I guess I should clear up a few things here.

 

First, the battle takes place on the Devaron Temple Grounds, where Savage killed those two Jedi.

 

Second, Vos can use Vaapad while unarmed. Vaapad's inspiration came from the Vaapad of Sarapin, a creature that attacks with several tentacles at multiple angles at lightning speed. We see this translate to lightsaber combat (see Mace Windu vs. Darth Sidious), and unarmed combat (when Mace Windu punches a man six times before the guy can blink).

 

Third, Vos can use Force lightning, but as seen in the duel with Volffe Kaarko, his application of the ability is weak. Though this could be a side-effect of his mental state at the time.

 

Fourth, Count Dooku did teach Quinlan Vos some elements of Makashi. What better Makashi teacher can you have, right?

 

Fifth, Quinlan Vos often wielded his lightsaber back-handed, indicating some training in Shien.

 

And finally, Quinlan Vos was trained by Count Dooku to tap into the darker abilities of psychometry to "read" the living. I made this, and other factors, abundantly clear in the OP.

 

Carry on with the debate.

And finally, Quinlan Vos was trained by Count Dooku to tap into the darker abilities of psychometry to "read" the living. I made this, and other factors, abundantly clear in the OP.

 

Carry on with the debate.

Not gonna lie I kinda skim read that... too eager to get into the battle!.

 

Thank you for that insight though, I shall go over it and give it a proper read now.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Beniboybling