Just did Hammer Station with a 56 Sin tank with 44k hp and the trash mobs were just destroying his hp. Did the HMs get a boost in dmg? Boss fights were far more easy than some of the trash fights leading up to them.

Maybe was this SIn not a tank?? Or maybe he didn,t know whathe was doing? Bad Sin tank are a credit the dozen.

Don't know... Only tanked Czerka labs with my jugg at lvl 56 with other between 56 and 58. It was the same roflstomp than it was prior to 3.0.

Maybe closer to 60 will be tougher ? When your stats are kind of sinking hard ?

Well, after I got hit for over 16k with Xander's (the guy with the droid on Cademimu) sticky grenade on my operative, I checked my old and new Cade logs...so I can answer the question in the title of the thread, at least for that certain flashpoint.

Yes. Yes it did. And not only trash.

Xander's Sticky Grenade went from 8500 to 15k on my guardian

Grimyk's Thermal Grenade 4857 before, 8000+ after

Not much damage from Ortol as dps, his shield pulse stayed the same

As for the trash, it's horrifying if you consider the healing nerfs accross the board:

Separatist Enforcer's gas grenade dot: 477 before, 1126 now (236% of previous damage)

Separatist Enforcer's Blaster Volley: up from 3456 to 5405 (156%)

Separatist Officer's Range Attack: up from 734 to 1579 (215%)

Separatist Hound's Maul: up from 2736 to 4519 (165%)

Separatist Hound's Melee Attack: down from 1113 to 959 (86%)

Underworld Thug's Kick: up from 3335 to 6162 (185%)

Underworld Thug's Guardian Strike: up from 3011 to 4926 (163%)

Separatist Sentinel Droid's Explosive Round: up from 1772 to 2887 (163%)

Mercenary Veteran's Vicious Slash: up from 2881 to 6171 (214%)

Mercenary Veteran's Overload Saber (first tick): up from 441 to 2852 (646%!!!)

Now, some of those numbers may have Unremitting factored in, I tried checking the logs for that, some may have slipped. Also, the numbers are mostly averages from separate fights and some variance exists. But at any rate, NONE of those explains more than (and in some cases WAY more than) 50% increase in damage output of trash mobs, especially the burst and aoe kind. I mean, if an operative healer that was capable of outhealing the sandstorm on HM Czerka Meltdown now has, in the exact same gear, which is also way above the recommended gear for HM Cademimu (unless I missed something huge), trouble keeping people up on trash pulls, something has gone horribly wrong.

I realize the 55 HMs were quite the roflstomp with geared people, but if 180 gear feels like doing it the first time with 148 gear, I would not want to be in a group of four people dressed in stock Oriconian freebie gear.

^ That's insane.

Wonder if this was a intended increase? Or just a bug caused by the xpac? A notice would of been nice.

I tanked a cademimu HM at lvl 56 on my dread-forged geared shadow tank today and I felt incredibly squishy. Admittedly the healer wasn't well geared, they were nerfed globally, and maybe he wasn't very good (hard to judge based on one performance). Even so, with that gear I would have been able to do it with little to no healing before 3.0. And there I was taking more damage on flashpoint trash than on HM ops bosses.

And if a non-tank takes aggro they just instantly melt.

Then I got into my first level 60 HM FP (Assault on Tython) as a jugg tank and the trash damage also seems insane. The mobs die very quickly and so do the players, which balances out in a rather unsatisfying way. As a tank I have to use 2 dcds on every trash pull just to stay barely alive and the healer has a hard time keeping up. And that's with gear above the requirements, augmented and with a level 55 set bonus.

Well, after I got hit for over 16k with Xander's (the guy with the droid on Cademimu) sticky grenade on my operative, I checked my old and new Cade logs...so I can answer the question in the title of the thread, at least for that certain flashpoint.

 

Yes. Yes it did. And not only trash.

 

Xander's Sticky Grenade went from 8500 to 15k on my guardian

Grimyk's Thermal Grenade 4857 before, 8000+ after

Not much damage from Ortol as dps, his shield pulse stayed the same

 

As for the trash, it's horrifying if you consider the healing nerfs accross the board:

 

Separatist Enforcer's gas grenade dot: 477 before, 1126 now (236% of previous damage)

Separatist Enforcer's Blaster Volley: up from 3456 to 5405 (156%)

Separatist Officer's Range Attack: up from 734 to 1579 (215%)

Separatist Hound's Maul: up from 2736 to 4519 (165%)

Separatist Hound's Melee Attack: down from 1113 to 959 (86%)

Underworld Thug's Kick: up from 3335 to 6162 (185%)

Underworld Thug's Guardian Strike: up from 3011 to 4926 (163%)

Separatist Sentinel Droid's Explosive Round: up from 1772 to 2887 (163%)

Mercenary Veteran's Vicious Slash: up from 2881 to 6171 (214%)

Mercenary Veteran's Overload Saber (first tick): up from 441 to 2852 (646%!!!)

 

Now, some of those numbers may have Unremitting factored in, I tried checking the logs for that, some may have slipped. Also, the numbers are mostly averages from separate fights and some variance exists. But at any rate, NONE of those explains more than (and in some cases WAY more than) 50% increase in damage output of trash mobs, especially the burst and aoe kind. I mean, if an operative healer that was capable of outhealing the sandstorm on HM Czerka Meltdown now has, in the exact same gear, which is also way above the recommended gear for HM Cademimu (unless I missed something huge), trouble keeping people up on trash pulls, something has gone horribly wrong.

 

I realize the 55 HMs were quite the roflstomp with geared people, but if 180 gear feels like doing it the first time with 148 gear, I would not want to be in a group of four people dressed in stock Oriconian freebie gear.

Wow that is a huge increase.

Its no different then when the 55s hit. Remember going into Hammer and Athiss getting smoked on trash packs? This is a perfectly normal(disregarding minor adjustments they might have too patch) xpac, its just to many rollstomp omg im the bobmers being used to overgear and no mechanics. Things will come back into line and hey maybe peeps gota actually play smart and work as a team again.

The difference is those were new Hard Modes at the level cap and we were at or even under geared for them.

What is being reported here is that the old Hard Modes, which are still 5 levels below cap, are substantially harder even when you are massively over geared for them.

I have not had a chance to try them myself but if 55 Cad HM mobs are now putting out 3x the damage they were then that is a big change and not at all comparable to what happened when 2.0 went live.

Its no different then when the 55s hit. Remember going into Hammer and Athiss getting smoked on trash packs? This is a perfectly normal(disregarding minor adjustments they might have too patch) xpac, its just to many rollstomp omg im the bobmers being used to overgear and no mechanics. Things will come back into line and hey maybe peeps gota actually play smart and work as a team again.

I remember when 55 HMs hit, I used to farm Hammer Station with my guardian tank, in her augmented campaign gear with some 156 enhancements and hilt thrown in for good measure. ~31k HP iirc. Healers and dps in similar gear were short of 30k HP, and if they were competent, there were no issues, despite not using defensive cooldowns on trash (with the exception of Saber Reflect on the HS wrist laser burst droids).

Now, a jugg tank in full dread forged gear is reduced to using saber ward on several Mando Raiders pulls or hope in lucky healer crits. Or get shredded by the dogs. Because they Leap for 5k each, do a melee attack for 1k, and follow up with Maul for another 5k (unshielded/undefended attacks). The pull just before Braxx has five dogs. Let's say two get shielded for half damage and one gets defended, which would be roughly equal to three dogs bypassing defenses. That's 33k damage in 3 seconds. A tank in recommended gear does not have such high defenses in the first place, and even if he did, he would still drop like a sack of dirt.

Comparing today's log with pre-3.0 one...well, dogs got some good chow, their damage almost doubled.

Back in the day I ran that FP with a friend of mine, guardian in crafted high mitigation gear and about 30k HP, with my sage healer with half arkanian, half 156 gear with no trouble at all. I would NOT recommend trying that now.

I have not had a chance to try them myself but if 55 Cad HM mobs are now putting out 3x the damage they were then that is a big change and not at all comparable to what happened when 2.0 went live.

To be fair, it's not tripple, for the most part it's 1.5x - 2x damage. But the fact that it's mostly burst/aoe damage makes it a bigger problem for the crippled healers. But yeah, I can't imagine running HM Cade in "recommended" gear now, despite doing it in 2.0 with worse gear and less sense of impending doom.

I'd have to concur, though without the data that previous posters provided, that it *feels* like my tank is taking much more damage from normal trash mobs than I used to. I hit 60 tonight, went and geared up to 186, did my best mod and enhancement tweeking to get my percentages back to respectable. What I noticed is that my stat numbers and percents were better than before, and yet, I was getting eaten alive by basic mobs. Just seemed odd.

I'll learn to adapt and figure it out. I am anxious to get in a HM FP with my tank to see how it goes. Before, I had many ppl asking me to run their undergeared alts through HM FPs because I could aggro everything and take no damage. Now I might be "the crappy tank that doesn't know what I'm doing!" Could be fun

Yeah as expected they completely ruined any resemblance of balance with their pointless damage changes.

Damage is far too high for the player as well. I would really like to know, if it is intended like this (because it sucks) or if something went completely wrong. Level 55 OPs are probably impossible to do at the moment with actual level 55 charakters.

I would really like to know, if it is intended like this (because it sucks) or if something went completely wrong. Level 55 OPs are probably impossible to do at the moment with actual level 55 charakters.

Well, the preliminary answer from the stream is that this is due to damage rework, which would imply intention. That said, I'm not sure they are aware of just how insane the burst damage of trash actually is now.

Haven't tried ops, so can't comment on those.

Funnily enough, Czerka FPs don't seem to be (as) affected, haven't checked the logs, but as of now, they ironically are most likely the easiest of the six.

I'll learn to adapt and figure it out. I am anxious to get in a HM FP with my tank to see how it goes. Before, I had many ppl asking me to run their undergeared alts through HM FPs because I could aggro everything and take no damage. Now I might be "the crappy tank that doesn't know what I'm doing!" Could be fun

Yeah, same here, I loved to tank. Really loved it, but now I feel like some massive and perpetual noob. And then every second healer is one who runs away from me with adds on him, which is pretty much a wipe before I can even do something about it.

If this is really intended, I'm respeccing and re-gearing to DPS and let those other poor fools deal with the insta-death knockback, aggrodrop-galore madness.

I’m glad to hear fellow tanks are having the same problems as me, I thought it was just me all of a sudden becoming NOOB tank. In 60 HM FP even when I’m in full 186 gear and my stats have been higher then they’ve ever been I find those trash mobs all hit me like trains and if one of the silvers suddenly decides to make a b-line for one of the DPS’s or the healer (I'm finding it hard to keep aggro on some mobs and I've never had this issue before in 55 HM) then it’s almost game over for them. So far I’ve noticed that we’re coming out of silver trash mobs very low on health and it’s usually either the tank being blamed of the healer being blamed. I can't say anything in regards to the new op’s yet because on my main tank I’m just not feeling confident enough after having these FP mobs destroying me despite being as well geared as I possibly can at this early stage with only basic comms to have a go at them.

With that said I still love tanking (I'm not big on DPS or heals) so I'll stick to it and also just learn to adapt and just get better I suppose if that's just how they're going to be from now on

Also please let us do 55 HM again there is so little choice for 60 HM FP or tacticals, they're going to get even more boring very very quickly.

On the bright side, if a dps pulls before the tank now, there's no need to let them die so they can learn a lesson, because nothing can save them.

But yeah, this isn't the way to make more people want to tank. If the people who could do it without trying now feel like noobs, imagine how the noobs are gonna fare ...

Also : Sairisi, most unfun boss ever for a tank.

On the bright side, if a dps pulls before the tank now, there's no need to let them die so they can learn a lesson, because nothing can save them.

Assault on Tython HM 60 second mob right before the first small bridge with the two silver droids (can't remember but I think they were silver) on either side and other mob members between them, I stealth in on my Shadow Tank and one of the DPS just can't wait 1 second (I wanted to force pull the two elite droids together so I could keep aggro on them both more easier then if they're quite far apart, I find they love picking on healers if you don't hold aggro) and leaps in grabs aggro on everything and goes down in literally seconds I'm sorry but it was hilarious. The DPS then spews out how bad me and the healer are and leaves so I don't think lesson learned for this particular guy.

The issue I think is a lot of people solo these with the new expansion then once they get to level 60 they jump in again with a group thinking it's going to be just as easy (I mean doing it solo with that droid made them as easy as pi) and don't realize these are not easy and these mobs hit very hard.

Assault on Tython HM 60 second mob right before the first small bridge with the two silver droids (can't remember but I think they were silver) on either side and other mob members between them, I stealth in on my Shadow Tank and one of the DPS just can't wait 1 second (I wanted to force pull the two elite droids together so I could keep aggro on them both more easier then if they're quite far apart, I find they love picking on healers if you don't hold aggro) and leaps in grabs aggro on everything and goes down in literally seconds I'm sorry but it was hilarious. The DPS then spews out how bad me and the healer are and leaves so I don't think lesson learned for this particular guy.

 

The issue I think is a lot of people solo these with the new expansion then once they get to level 60 they jump in again with a group thinking it's going to be just as easy (I mean doing it solo with that droid made them as easy as pi) and don't realize these are not easy and these mobs hit very hard.

The new HMs SHOULD be difficult. I mean we are mostly still figuring out mechanics and all that fun. The old 55HMs are the pain in the butt most are complaining about. They are hitting way to hard for some of the flashpoints for a "at gear recommended" character can handle. I mean if a tank with 40k+ hp drops to below 20% on just the opening hits before the healer has a chance to heal what chance would a "at gear level" tank have? Remember this is ON TRASH MOBS. Not a boss.

On the bright side, if a dps pulls before the tank now, there's no need to let them die so they can learn a lesson, because nothing can save them.

 

But yeah, this isn't the way to make more people want to tank. If the people who could do it without trying now feel like noobs, imagine how the noobs are gonna fare ...

Also : Sairisi, most unfun boss ever for a tank.

Not only dps pulling ahead, I have experienced a healer getting shredded almost instantly by dogs before Braxx on Mando Raiders simply because his HoT ticked just after tank's saber throw...

And it's more of a problem for healers, as they are the ones who have to deal with the damage taken, tanks are still doing their job equally well since they can soak up the most damage before dropping, even if it went up.

I am pretty much shelving my healers now (nerfing healing output while increasing the damage is just...mindblowing), but short of getting vastly undergeared AND inexperienced healer it's not as bad for my geared tank. Who, incidentally, is getting stuck in queue for longer periods of time for some reason, but I am sure it has almost nothing to do with the healing nerfs and steroids the mobs are on...

Seeing similar damage in DP/DF HM's as well. Just plain CRAZY damage.. one hit and half health gone on a 60 even.

Checked out S&V and it's nowhere near the same type of outbound damage.

Damage is far too high for the player as well. I would really like to know, if it is intended like this (because it sucks) or if something went completely wrong. Level 55 OPs are probably impossible to do at the moment with actual level 55 charakters.

Just tried to do TfB HM, which we passed a week ago with no problems. Most were level 60, with one healer and one tank level 55 and one DPS level 59. Should be easy, right? Like the level 50 HM ops were when 55 came out? Wrong. We wiped at Operator IX three or four times before giving up. On our best attempt we got to yellow phase and wiped a few seconds after it started. On one attempt the level 55 shadow tank took a 25k hit from one champion add, then less than a second later a 10k hit from another. My level 55 scoundrel healer was doing 2-2.5k HPS, when before the patch I could easily reach 3.5k. Everyone in the group was at least 180 geared, with the level 60s likely in 186 (I didn't check). I wonder how a group of 55s in the recommended gear of rating 162 would fare?