Your point? I don't think anyone underestimates Vitiate's abilities. For me, I just don't find them impressive enough to illicit any grandstanding.

Really, I mean he's consumed the life force of an entire planet and its Sith inhabitants. I think people need to understand how important that is. The ritual is irrelevant, its the result that's important. This is effectively a colossal Force drain with all the benefits of Force-walking. All Darth Nox had to do was bind what 4, 5 ghosts? To become immensely powerful and more powerful than Thanaton. Times that by 8,000... then add a planet. And we have the Sith Emperor. Even with a large portion of said life-force fueling his immortality, he still has vasts amounts of Force energy to draw upon. He cannot help but illicit grandstanding. He's already an Emperor was gosh darns sake.

Despite this, Rayla makes a good point about Caedus having the potential to surpass the Luke Skywalker withing a year (where was this stated?) which certainly points to impressive power.

P.S. When did Luke and Caedus fight?

Despite this, Rayla makes a good point about Caedus having the potential to surpass the Luke Skywalker within a year (where was this stated?) which certainly points to impressive power.

 

P.S. When did Luke and Caedus fight?

Both in LOTF, Luke admitted that Caedus had to be dealt with and soon otherwise he might get too powerful for any of them. (IIRC, haven't read them in years, but that is one thing I remember because of the oh **** moment they all have when he admits it)

I'd also like to state that whilst Force Drain on such a scale is clearly a showing of incredible power, it is still a ritual and still required the sacrifice of 8,000 Sith Lords(Unless we're just forgetting the whole thing about not including rituals, amps or power imbuing artifacts), Luke has never shown anything nearly as spectacular as draining a planet of the Force, but we know he is more than twice as powerful as Vitiate ever was.

Both in LOTF, Luke admitted that Caedus had to be dealt with and soon otherwise he might get too powerful for any of them. (IIRC, haven't read them in years, but that is one thing I remember because of the oh **** moment they all have when he admits it)

 

I'd also like to state that whilst Force Drain on such a scale is clearly a showing of incredible power, it is still a ritual and still required the sacrifice of 8,000 Sith Lords(Unless we're just forgetting the whole thing about not including rituals, amps or power imbuing artifacts), Luke has never shown anything nearly as spectacular as draining a planet of the Force, but we know he is more than twice as powerful as Vitiate ever was.

Regardless you make a good point, Luke is at least twice as powerful as Vitiate. And if Caedus could come even close to that, he deserves an elevation.

EDIT: I think, with that change made, I'm pretty much happy with the list. Hopefully everyone will agree (mostly) then we can move on to Jedi & Sith!

EDIT: I think, with that change made, I'm pretty much happy with the list. Hopefully everyone will agree (mostly) then we can move on to Jedi & Sith!

I would say you could probably streamline Vitiate's name, he was known historically as Emperor Vitiate, as seen in Darth Plagueis, then again I also think it is said in Book of Sith, but don't quote me on that.

EDIT: Though I will say I am not entirely happy with this list, but it's a very good one nonetheless.

If he was any more powerful, I'd submit a complaint to BioWare concerning the OPness of their characters and their disregard of G-Canon. Any more powerful and he'd be Nihilus, but with magic.

 

Really, I mean he's consumed the life force of an entire planet and its Sith inhabitants. I think people need to understand how important that is. The ritual is irrelevant, its the result that's important. This is effectively a colossal Force drain with all the benefits of Force-walking. All Darth Nox had to do was bind what 4, 5 ghosts? To become immensely powerful and more powerful than Thanaton. Times that by 8,000... then add a planet. And we have the Sith Emperor. Even with a large portion of said life-force fueling his immortality, he still has vasts amounts of Force energy to draw upon. He cannot help but illicit grandstanding. He's already an Emperor was gosh darns sake.

 

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. The thing is, pretty much everything he has done has been done before. I never said he wasn't impressive, but I don't find him that impressive. And to top it off, he comes off as a child to me (because of his 'master' plan).

I would say you could probably streamline Vitiate's name, he was known historically as Emperor Vitiate, as seen in Darth Plagueis, then again I also think it is said in Book of Sith, but don't quote me on that.

 

EDIT: Though I will say I am not entirely happy with this list, but it's a very good one nonetheless.

I also think that Plagueis should be placed above Marek. Marek certainly has better Force potential but he did not fully achieve it, while Plagueis achieved his full potential.

However I think that's as far as Marek should fall, having the potential to be the most powerful Force user ever places him a good distance above Vader. Whereas I feel Jaina and Vader are almost equally matched.

OK, I'll make that change.

 

I also think that Plagueis should be placed above Marek. Marek certainly has better Force potential but he did not fully achieve it, while Plagueis achieved his full potential.

 

However I think that's as far as Marek should fall, having the potential to be the most powerful Force user ever places him a good distance above Vader. Whereas I feel Jaina and Vader are almost equally matched.

I would agree with that, I do believe Plagueis should be placed above him.

OK, I'll make that change.

 

I also think that Plagueis should be placed above Marek. Marek certainly has better Force potential but he did not fully achieve it, while Plagueis achieved his full potential.

 

However I think that's as far as Marek should fall, having the potential to be the most powerful Force user ever places him a good distance above Vader. Whereas I feel Jaina and Vader are almost equally matched.

Vader had the same potential still ya know Beni, only thing that held him back was his mental state. So why is it not fair to include that for Vader? Galen died and he didn't reach his potential either.

Vader had the same potential still ya know Beni, only thing that held him back was his mental state. So why is it not fair to include that for Vader? Galen died and he didn't reach his potential either.

I'm not counting potential. Galen's potential is superior to Plagueis but because he never reached it, Plagueis surpasses him. Though Plagueis seems generally stronger.

Wait so then why did you keep saying "Galen had the potential to be the strongest Force User ever?" kept looking like you were still including that. Also that is another thing, if Vader can will himself back to life(by your saying he used The Force) and become a Force Ghost without any knowledge of such...whereas Galen didn't do anything nearly like this, shouldn't that say that Vader is more powerful then him?

Wait so then why did you keep saying "Galen had the potential to be the strongest Force User ever?" kept looking like you were still including that. Also that is another thing, if Vader can will himself back to life(by your saying he used The Force) and become a Force Ghost without any knowledge of such...whereas Galen didn't do anything nearly like this, shouldn't that say that Vader is more powerful then him?

...I'm merely highlighting that fact that Marek, possessing the potential of the most powerful force user ever, should be placed highly on the list. Even if he did not achieve that potential, even a portion of such ability is immense.

 

To explain further, if Marek had the potential to become the most powerful Force user ever, that means his Force ability must have been close to that of the Chosen One. Anakin himself by the age of 22 had already become one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order, and Luke Skywalker after only 4 years of training became powerful enough to fight toe-to-toe with Vader.

 

However in both cases they were limited by their Jedi training which encouraged a steady learning curve. Marek was not limited by that, he received incredibly intensive Sith training from a young age and because of that came into his prime far sooner, embracing the dark side broke down any kind of boundaries Jedi training might have given. And if all it took for ROTJ Luke to defeat Vader completely and utterly was giving into the darkside, then I can see no reason why Marek, of a similar age and Force potential, would not surpass Vader also - bearing in mind that unlike Luke he had been immersed in the darkside from day one. Which makes up for Luke having a greater affinity.

 

Really, after 10 more years I reckon Marek would have fulfilled his potential. This seems to be the standard. Which means he achieved at least two thirds of his potential, potential which would have made him considerably more powerful than Sidious. I mean, if 'most powerful Force user ever' did translate into the affinity of the Chosen One, that would mean (given that Anakin could have been 60% more powerful than the Emperor) a third of Marek's potential would have made him equal to the Emperor's power, if not a little more powerful. So even by assuming 'most powerful Force user ever' does not mean Chosen One affinity, he must possess at least between 85-90% of the Emperor's power.

And I covered the other point as well too. Simply put while Vader may have a deeper understanding of the dark side and a wider range of abilities because of it, that does not imply he has a greater command over the Force. Galen may be unrefined, but he still possesses a great deal of raw power. Because of that I make sure only to compare feats that both parties can wield, else Galen could simply trump Vader with Force lightning.

I'm not sure if everyone previously involved in this series is subscribed to the home thread. But I'm quite eager for some opinions and discussion on what I feel is one of few things that need to be addressed.

Jaina vs Vader - who is more powerful?

I feel if a comparison were to be made, Vader would come out of more powerful. But I don't want to make this change without some support/consensus on the matter. This is a community thread after all.

And I'd really like to get started on lightsaber duelists.

I'm not sure if everyone previously involved in this series is subscribed to the home thread. But I'm quite eager for some opinions and discussion on what I feel is one of few things that need to be addressed.

 

Jaina vs Vader - who is more powerful?

 

I feel if a comparison were to be made, Vader would come out of more powerful. But I don't want to make this change without some support/consensus on the matter. This is a community thread after all.

 

And I'd really like to get started on lightsaber duelists.

you know my opinion, I feel Jaina is more powerful based on her growth after her killing of her brother becoming a master the same way Luke did, and having Luke acknowledge it like that to me seems a bit of a sure thing that she was stronger. I would have no issue with the top 10 duelist list starting.

you know my opinion, I feel Jaina is more powerful based on her growth after her killing of her brother becoming a master the same way Luke did, and having Luke acknowledge it like that to me seems a bit of a sure thing that she was stronger. I would have no issue with the top 10 duelist list starting.

I see your reasoning here. But I'll leave it on the table.

I'm going to go with the generational approach. One of the major reasons jedi were not allowed to have kids, is because it made more and more powerful progeny with each generation. Notice how eventhough Anakin Skywalker never hit his potential, I don't think his end potential would of been greater than Luke's.

Hell look at Jacen/Cadeus. He never hit his maximum potential, and good thing he didn't either. He would of dwarfed Luke IMO. And Look at Jacen's younger brother. Anakin Solo. He never hit his. Look at ben and jania. Neither of them IMO have hit their limits and they will EASILY surpass Luke. If not Jania, Ben certainly will. He's doing things at 16 that Luke could barely do by the time he was 25. Ben has the raw ability Luke has, but all his father's training and insights.

IMO, Jaina is far stronger in the force than her grandfather.

I'm going to go with the generational approach. One of the major reasons jedi were not allowed to have kids, is because it made more and more powerful progeny with each generation. Notice how eventhough Anakin Skywalker never hit his potential, I don't think his end potential would of been greater than Luke's.

 

Hell look at Jacen/Cadeus. He never hit his maximum potential, and good thing he didn't either. He would of dwarfed Luke IMO. And Look at Jacen's younger brother. Anakin Solo. He never hit his. Look at ben and jania. Neither of them IMO have hit their limits and they will EASILY surpass Luke. If not Jania, Ben certainly will. He's doing things at 16 that Luke could barely do by the time he was 25. Ben has the raw ability Luke has, but all his father's training and insights.

 

IMO, Jaina is far stronger in the force than her grandfather.

That's far from being a rule. We have a lot of examples of children of Jedi/Sith who weren't more powerful than it's parents, some weren't Force sensitive. And Caedus would never surpass Luke, in terms of Force powers. Just to remember, Luke stated that, in a year, he wouldn't be able to STOP Caedus, obviously this doesn't mean becoming more powerful in the Force.

That's far from being a rule. We have a lot of examples of children of Jedi/Sith who weren't more powerful than it's parents, some weren't Force sensitive. And Caedus would never surpass Luke, in terms of Force powers. Just to remember, Luke stated that, in a year, he wouldn't be able to STOP Caedus, obviously this doesn't mean becoming more powerful in the Force.

That's far from being a rule. We have a lot of examples of children of Jedi/Sith who weren't more powerful than it's parents, some weren't Force sensitive. And Caedus would never surpass Luke, in terms of Force powers. Just to remember, Luke stated that, in a year, he wouldn't be able to STOP Caedus, obviously this doesn't mean becoming more powerful in the Force.

OMG, so you try to refute my point then make it for me in the last sentence. Luke made that point because in a year, Caedus would reach the point of surpassing luke, then luke would never be able to catch up in terms of Force power.

Honestly Cadeus had the potential to surpass both Luke AND SIDEOUS. Had he the time, he'd of done so.

Surely it does... else he'd be able to stop him.

You are thnking like a direct confrontation is the only possible resolution to everything. He would'nt be able to stop him, cause he controlled a spaning galactic government, his resources growing each day. Also, you forget about lightsabers.

Come on people enough chatter.

 

Who gets the No. 3 slot?

 

EDIT: Not looking for a list remember.

I'm not going to put him on the list but, Anakin Solo had the potential to be top 10. Jacen Solo and Anakin sparred all the time because they had at an early point in the Vong War a different view of the force. Jacen also noted in the books that Anakin was closing the gap in skill to the point where they were equals with the blade. This was just the first book too. Later Anakin Solo was the one who learned to sense the Vong within the force. He also was the one who developed the Force battle Meld that the jedi use in space fights in their stealth X fighters. I would say that just like his Namesake he had so much potential. Anakin Solo would've done much had he lived, but it wasn't the will of the force for him to do so.

Also I personally believe that Darth Caedas is 3rd. He was one of the only force users that Luke knew that could defeat him whether Caedas killed Luke physically. Or Luke thought if he were to fight him they were so evenly matched that he would've ended up falling to the darkside to defeat him due to his anger over Mara Jade. This is why he had Jaina kill him. Though how he funneled energy into her and at the same time projected a Force illusion no one can doubt Lukes the best.

Though I've read all the books After Thrawn besides Rogue squadran series. Luke did look to Jacen a lot when they were both younger and Jacen wasn't so jaded. They developed a bunch of force techniques.

After reading the Revan book...I don't care what Lucas said...Darth Vitiate is the most powerfull Sith have ever been. FFS he was able to "eat" the force and life of an entire planet and almost did the same with the whole galaxy (the Knight stops him just in time). So no...Palpatine is a mere insect near Vitiate.

Ah, another Ventress to my Dooku.