Jump to content

SWToR Arena Possibilities


Nafian

Recommended Posts

Warning; this is a long post intended for those with an attention span longer than a nanosecond. Its purpose is to keep the topic of SWToR Arena open to ideas for the Developers.

 

Let's face it. Arena is going to happen. Eventually. Sure, we all agree some things need to be fixed before this can be practical. But since we have time, we should put forth our best effort to see that it's implemented properly. From my perspective, I've seen some good ideas that address the problems people have with this type of play. I honestly haven't seen a really good argument against it. I think for the most part, people that are outright against arena PvP, is they're still stuck to WoW Arena.

 

Many cases have been made that WoW didn't quite get it right. And this is our chance to make sure the same mistakes don't happen in SWToR. We can help get it right this time.

 

So here are a few things I think can happen in SWToR to make Arena practical and fun. Remember, this is a new game, and we can help mold it into something great if we put our thoughts out there as opposed to just sitting back and saying what they should have done after the fact. I do not take sole credit for any these ideas.

 

 

Arena Rewards

 

Only vanity rewards should be unique through the system. No extra gear with more powerful stats or mods. All commendations / marks that you receive are no different than what you can earn in Warzones and Ilum. Mounts, pets, titles, social items, and companion customizations should be plenty to separate the high standing Gladiator from everyone else. If there is going to be gear available, it needs to have the exact same stats as the gear attainable through Warzones and Ilum, just a different texture to reward the player with a unique look.

 

Some supporters of Arena have stated no rewards at all should be available in order to keep corruption, cheating, and external trades out. It would maintain more of an “honorable” system. As valiant as that idea is, I don't think you're going to keep any of those elements out of any system, whether in this game or the real world. So you may as well reward the actual players. I'm pretty sure you'll be rewarding more legit Gladiators than cheaters and exploiters.

 

 

Team Free System with Personal Rating

 

Scrap the team rating. In fact, scrap the whole notion of requiring a team to be created, named, and filled with a roster.

 

Instead, allow the Arena system to be much more open with players able to queue just like we do when queuing a pre-made Warzone. Personal ratings can be used to average the group and place them against an opponent team, within say, a 100 point average spectrum. The benefits from using a Team free system would out weigh any negative compared to the Team system. You won't be required to mesh a "perfect" composition. You won't have to search endlessly for that specific class you need because all the others are already on a team. You won't feel “stuck” to the team you're already on. You won't have to start over if the team doesn't work out. You can easily bring in any class or friend, on-demand, for the next match and run with it for however long you like, with the only penalties coming from the drop in personal rating if you lose.

 

You and your buddy still want to do arena, but your DPS had to go? No problem, just ask Guild if anyone wants to fill his spot. Getting your butt handed to you by a certain comp that is queuing? No problem, you can bring Guildies with you that can match their comp. Guildies aren't an option? Perhaps a terminal or droid in the PvP section that will display the Personal Rating of everyone on the server to help you choose an ally. Or even be on the lookout for the next foe.

 

 

3v3 Only

 

This pretty much speaks for itself. Most of those who like Arena think balance is mostly maintained on a 3v3 scale. This also goes hand in hand with the team free system. Bioware will need to stick more to overall balance of the mechanics for everyone, as opposed to just tweaking flavor of the month comps.

 

 

Arena Layout

 

No moving or elevator widgets in an Arena map. However, I'm not bothered with a “Higher Ground” section.

 

Should players be able to choose the Arena they participate in? After all, with that kind of power, players will tend to choose a map they feel fits their play style, meaning a closer balance between the match up. We would probably also see a trend in what map players are choosing more than others, which would put the pressure on Bioware to tweak the others for a closer balance in map layout. Also, in the end, if your team simply hates a certain map, they can avoid it.

 

This is just speculation in this area. I can also see the other side of this, being no choice in the map, due to this being competitive PvP. And a player in competitive PvP should be competitive on all maps. Also, a choice in your Arena, would probably extend queue times. So this option may not viable until cross server PvP is available.

 

 

Immersion Through Progression

 

I have always thought one thing about Arena that I would love to see is more immersion. Sure there's always the number crunching and tactics area. That's always fun. But as a player in this system, number crunching and tactics combined with vanity rewards may not seem like enough. Unless you have it all, you really only have that rating number to look at. After the match, you look at that number, just to see what the new number looks like, whether it drops or rises. And speaking of the match, it may seem I have these glorious battles, but there's no one there to see it.

 

I would love to see and hear an actual crowd in these arenas. I don't care if they're just pixels, but I think on how great it would be to see a half filled arena when I first start my endeavor. And then slowly see the coliseum fill with more onlookers as my rating increased. Perhaps even as one nears a certain pinnacle, the Emperor and Jedi High Council watch down through their Holocrons perched atop one of the highest VIP sections. As an enemy falls, the crowd roars. When an ally falls, the crowd roars. After all, these people came to see someone get massacred, right?

 

 

 

That covers about everything I can think of for now. I will probably come back and modify this post as more topics on this subject are addressed. Let me know what you think so far.

 

Thanks for reading!

Edited by Nafian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 97
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I guess it needs to be reiterated: arenas ruin games.

 

Actually, it gives them longevity and promotes an actual reason to acquire all this pvp gear.

 

I agree with everything said in the OP but i do think maps should be random, a team that just stacks knockbacks for example could just refuse to play on any map without multiple floors.

 

I just hope there are no hazards in the maps though, no cheesy fire pit killing strats please

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...
I guess it needs to be reiterated: arenas ruin games.

Nope,

the arena-system was the one and only reason my guild played gay-wow and will be the only reason we'll start playing swtor again!

 

 

"And a player in competitive PvP should be competitive on all maps"

this

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope,

the arena-system was the one and only reason my guild played gay-wow and will be the only reason we'll start playing swtor again!

 

 

"And a player in competitive PvP should be competitive on all maps"

this

 

Solid necro. An arena system would only work at the 4v4 scale and higher because the game is balanced around a minimum party size of 4 players. Any format small than that would just come down to rock-paper-scissors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Idea of a Team-Free Arena sounds really good (like Ranked Warzone).

 

Maybe it should give some commendations too, so it can be an alternative to Warzone, when you are bored. It's not too hard to implement.

 

Anyway I agree, 4v4 seems the way to go, 3v3 I'm not sure if it worked here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess it needs to be reiterated: arenas ruin games.

 

I think it needs to be Reiterated...WE love BADDIES in ARENA. We understnad math, if it wasn't for you 1500 players there wouldn't be 2k plus players.

 

Good post sing me up!

Edited by Izola
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Warning; this is a long post intended for those with an attention span longer than a nanosecond. Its purpose is to keep the topic of SWToR Arena open to ideas for the Developers.

 

Let's face it. Arena is going to happen. Eventually. Sure, we all agree some things need to be fixed before this can be practical. But since we have time, we should put forth our best effort to see that it's implemented properly. From my perspective, I've seen some good ideas that address the problems people have with this type of play. I honestly haven't seen a really good argument against it. I think for the most part, people that are outright against arena PvP, is they're still stuck to WoW Arena.

 

Many cases have been made that WoW didn't quite get it right. And this is our chance to make sure the same mistakes don't happen in SWToR. We can help get it right this time.

 

So here are a few things I think can happen in SWToR to make Arena practical and fun. Remember, this is a new game, and we can help mold it into something great if we put our thoughts out there as opposed to just sitting back and saying what they should have done after the fact. I do not take sole credit for any these ideas.

 

 

Arena Rewards

 

Only vanity rewards should be unique through the system. No extra gear with more powerful stats or mods. All commendations / marks that you receive are no different than what you can earn in Warzones and Ilum. Mounts, pets, titles, social items, and companion customizations should be plenty to separate the high standing Gladiator from everyone else. If there is going to be gear available, it needs to have the exact same stats as the gear attainable through Warzones and Ilum, just a different texture to reward the player with a unique look.

 

Some supporters of Arena have stated no rewards at all should be available in order to keep corruption, cheating, and external trades out. It would maintain more of an “honorable” system. As valiant as that idea is, I don't think you're going to keep any of those elements out of any system, whether in this game or the real world. So you may as well reward the actual players. I'm pretty sure you'll be rewarding more legit Gladiators than cheaters and exploiters.

 

 

Team Free System with Personal Rating

 

Scrap the team rating. In fact, scrap the whole notion of requiring a team to be created, named, and filled with a roster.

 

Instead, allow the Arena system to be much more open with players able to queue just like we do when queuing a pre-made Warzone. Personal ratings can be used to average the group and place them against an opponent team, within say, a 100 point average spectrum. The benefits from using a Team free system would out weigh any negative compared to the Team system. You won't be required to mesh a "perfect" composition. You won't have to search endlessly for that specific class you need because all the others are already on a team. You won't feel “stuck” to the team you're already on. You won't have to start over if the team doesn't work out. You can easily bring in any class or friend, on-demand, for the next match and run with it for however long you like, with the only penalties coming from the drop in personal rating if you lose.

 

You and your buddy still want to do arena, but your DPS had to go? No problem, just ask Guild if anyone wants to fill his spot. Getting your butt handed to you by a certain comp that is queuing? No problem, you can bring Guildies with you that can match their comp. Guildies aren't an option? Perhaps a terminal or droid in the PvP section that will display the Personal Rating of everyone on the server to help you choose an ally. Or even be on the lookout for the next foe.

 

 

3v3 Only

 

This pretty much speaks for itself. Most of those who like Arena think balance is mostly maintained on a 3v3 scale. This also goes hand in hand with the team free system. Bioware will need to stick more to overall balance of the mechanics for everyone, as opposed to just tweaking flavor of the month comps.

 

 

Arena Layout

 

No moving or elevator widgets in an Arena map. However, I'm not bothered with a “Higher Ground” section.

 

Should players be able to choose the Arena they participate in? After all, with that kind of power, players will tend to choose a map they feel fits their play style, meaning a closer balance between the match up. We would probably also see a trend in what map players are choosing more than others, which would put the pressure on Bioware to tweak the others for a closer balance in map layout. Also, in the end, if your team simply hates a certain map, they can avoid it.

 

This is just speculation in this area. I can also see the other side of this, being no choice in the map, due to this being competitive PvP. And a player in competitive PvP should be competitive on all maps. Also, a choice in your Arena, would probably extend queue times. So this option may not viable until cross server PvP is available.

 

 

Immersion Through Progression

 

I have always thought one thing about Arena that I would love to see is more immersion. Sure there's always the number crunching and tactics area. That's always fun. But as a player in this system, number crunching and tactics combined with vanity rewards may not seem like enough. Unless you have it all, you really only have that rating number to look at. After the match, you look at that number, just to see what the new number looks like, whether it drops or rises. And speaking of the match, it may seem I have these glorious battles, but there's no one there to see it.

 

I would love to see and hear an actual crowd in these arenas. I don't care if they're just pixels, but I think on how great it would be to see a half filled arena when I first start my endeavor. And then slowly see the coliseum fill with more onlookers as my rating increased. Perhaps even as one nears a certain pinnacle, the Emperor and Jedi High Council watch down through their Holocrons perched atop one of the highest VIP sections. As an enemy falls, the crowd roars. When an ally falls, the crowd roars. After all, these people came to see someone get massacred, right?

 

 

 

That covers about everything I can think of for now. I will probably come back and modify this post as more topics on this subject are addressed. Let me know what you think so far.

 

Thanks for reading!

 

Arena should be off devs minds period forever and ever. No arena, never ever. It will only cause problems, thats all arenas ever do is is cause issues, no, nay, never.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I totally understand the request for Arenas...

 

But even the WoW devs admitted they should have never had concentrated on them. Arenas place WAY too much emphasis on class synergy and balance. It becomes a complicated nightmare of balancing when the synergy between two or three classes is huge but individually the classes are weak.

 

People start calling for nerfs and buffs to balance arena size teams and its a never ending disaster of changes. One class is way too powerful and another is very weak.

 

That problem is removed in WZs because of the team and random factors that come into play. A class that is very poor on an individual level may become great in a team environment. Classes that excel 1v1 may not be that great to have on a WZ team because of their single target purpose.

 

Arenas are way too complicated to balance and only further complicate the game. There will never be perfect balance and we need to accept the fact that arenas only make it worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I totally understand the request for Arenas...

 

But even the WoW devs admitted they should have never had concentrated on them. Arenas place WAY too much emphasis on class synergy and balance. It becomes a complicated nightmare of balancing when the synergy between two or three classes is huge but individually the classes are weak.

 

People start calling for nerfs and buffs to balance arena size teams and its a never ending disaster of changes. One class is way too powerful and another is very weak.

 

That problem is removed in WZs because of the team and random factors that come into play. A class that is very poor on an individual level may become great in a team environment. Classes that excel 1v1 may not be that great to have on a WZ team because of their single target purpose.

 

Arenas are way too complicated to balance and only further complicate the game. There will never be perfect balance and we need to accept the fact that arenas only make it worse.

 

Care to post a link to the press release u just mine quoted ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Care to post a link to the press release u just mine quoted ?

 

It was quite a while ago. The WoW devs went into how arenas placed a huge microscope on class balance and created situations and balance problems that only arose when 2v2 or 3v3 combat occurred. It was a never ending battle of fix this and then something else happens.

 

Edit: I found it.

So, whats next? Want to challenge me on something else? I'm not making this stuff up.

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/5

 

 

but that Arena has been a huge headache for Blizzard and players alike. He goes on to say that if he had the choice, he'd either go back to WoW's beginnings and change the fundamentals of class balance, or, barring that, would nix the decision to add Arenas during the development of the Burning Crusade expansion.

Edited by Arkerus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was quite a while ago. The WoW devs went into how arenas placed a huge microscope on class balance and created situations and balance problems that only arose when 2v2 or 3v3 combat occurred. It was a never ending battle of fix this and then something else happens.

 

Edit: I found it.

So, whats next? Want to challenge me on something else? I'm not making this stuff up.

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/5

 

 

but that Arena has been a huge headache for Blizzard and players alike. He goes on to say that if he had the choice, he'd either go back to WoW's beginnings and change the fundamentals of class balance, or, barring that, would nix the decision to add Arenas during the development of the Burning Crusade expansion.

 

There we go. Arena as a system is good.

 

Their mistake was adding new abilities and stuff in TBC without regards to game balance, and ended up shooting themselves in the foot, with having to work extra to fix them.

 

Same thing Swtor started doing. Ie : Project vs shock. And now they have to fix it.

 

Why not try to avoid doing the same mistakes, and keep in mind pvp balance every time they add something new. So when Arena gets introduced, it will be great.

After all, all arena did was point out what pvp imbalances were and needed to be fixed. Without arena WoW would have been incredibly imbalanced.

 

Look at each expansion. They go through the same cycle... add abilities without regard to game balance and end up fixing them afterwards.

 

First 2 seasons of TBC and WOTLK were crap ragarding game balance and without Arena game balance would have stayed crap or continue to circle further down the drain.

 

Arena was a tool to help them balance PvP.

 

Why not keep in mind PvP game balance every time something new is added? so that u dont have to work twice at it, once to implement it and another to fix it.

 

TLDR: read it, u lazy bum.

 

EDIT: This would be a great time to add arena, since the game is so "young" and have singificantly fewers abilities to balance for PvP, then it will be much easier for pvp balance later, if every new thing that is added takes in consideration PvP balance.

Edited by Dmasterr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Care to post a link to the press release u just mine quoted ?

 

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/6773-Five-Years-of-Warcraft-Speaking-With-Blizzards-Rob-Pardo.2

 

Specificially...

 

What are you most proud of over the last five years? What was the biggest mistake you think you made?

 

As for the biggest mistake? There's a lot of them that I think, were ... they just "fell out" of things. One example: I wish the servers were more stable when we launched, of course - there's a lot of that sort of thing. We have a lot of excuses for that - we didn't expect nearly the response - but we can't say it wasn't a mistake. If I was going to pick on a game design thing that I look back on and think was a mistake? We really never designed WoW to be a competitive e-sports game; it was something that we decided to start tackling because there was such a desire and demand to evolve it in that direction, to introduce competitive arenas. I'm not sure that that was the right thing to do with the game.

 

We didn't engineer the game and classes and balance around it, we just added it on, so it continues to be very difficult to balance. Is WoW a PvE cooperative game, or a competitive PvP game? There's constant pressure on the class balance team, there's pressure on the game itself, and a lot of times players who don't PvP don't understand why their classes are changing. I don't think we ever foresaw how much tuning and tweaking we'd have to do to balance it in that direction. Either I'd go back in time to before WoW ever shipped and change the rules to make the basic game more conductive for being an e-sport, or if not that, just say it doesn't make sense. Right now, WoW has a bit of a schizophrenic philosophy behind it, and we're trying to figure out how to guide it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...