Ok, so I have done Black bisector arc a few times with different characters and pretty much figured out the following:

 

Blue parallel = harmony type situation

 

Green perpendicular = some sort of obstruction (possibly violent)

 

Black Bisector = problem solver (possibly user of violence)

 

Now here is my question. Is this type of speech common in other mediums of star wars or did they just come up with it for the story arc here in TOR?

 

Do the Gree always talk like that?

I don't remember a case where an actual Gree would have appeared or spoken. They are an isolationist, elder civilization, background material basically. Them having played a role in the construction of the cityscape of early Coruscant ~ 100 000 years ago is totally new canon and interesting one.

I actually think it's a bit more complicated than that, because if I recall correctly they mention blue perpindiculars and green parallels as well.

 

I believe it is more like below:

 

Parallel = "status good"

Perpindicular = "status bad / conflict"

Bisector = "conflict resolver"

 

Blue = "us"

Green = "them/others"

Black = "third party"

 

So a black bisector is someone not directly connected to one side or the other who steps in to help resolve whatever conflict is ongoing.

 

I could be a bit wrong, but in my head this makes sense ...

We need to decipher the Gree language A good starting point here, I think.

I've noticed that the syntax/structure of the Gree appear very simular to a poor written translation of Japanese to English, the type that occurs when the translator's main language is not English. The writers/directors use accents and idioms of several languages rather heavily in ToR, so I've often wondered if the Gree were designed to resemble that translation idosyncrasy on purpose. Edited January 25, 2012 by Karaiblis

I actually think it's a bit more complicated than that, because if I recall correctly they mention blue perpindiculars and green parallels as well.

 

I believe it is more like below:

 

Parallel = "status good"

Perpindicular = "status bad / conflict"

Bisector = "conflict resolver"

 

Blue = "us"

Green = "them/others"

Black = "third party"

 

So a black bisector is someone not directly connected to one side or the other who steps in to help resolve whatever conflict is ongoing.

 

I could be a bit wrong, but in my head this makes sense ...

 

Yeah, I agree with this.

 

Also I just have to say that this was my absolute favorite quest. I thought it was adorable and I was so excited when I got the title Black Bisector.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Eysaathe

When the droid found out I was a Jedi, he called me a White parallel I think and a Black Bi sector.

I have done it as a jedi twice and never was called White parallel. Must have picked the wrong choice

I have done it as a jedi twice and never was called White parallel. Must have picked the wrong choice

 

Well, I don't remember what he called me. But he got pretty excited and called me a white something as well as a black bi sector. I can't find much of anything about the Gree, let alone their opinions on the force.

Well, I don't remember what he called me. But he got pretty excited and called me a white something as well as a black bi sector. I can't find much of anything about the Gree, let alone their opinions on the force.

 

I can find mention of "white acute", but I think that is about an allaince between the Gree and Republic. Clsoest line I can find to what you are saying is:

 

"Jedi? Ah! Even Gree comprehend this nature. Jedi are black bisector and red equilateral at once."

 

Edit: Another line that I would throw out there, I'm not 100% sure, but I think this is a line in regards to Troopers.

 

"I sense-soak-perceive you are one of these elite. You radiate experience of green-yellow-white perpendiculars."

Edited January 25, 2012 by Ranadiel_Marius

One of the dialog options I took actually explained why they speak like they do.

 

Gree have 5 senses that detect forms, and 3 for color. That's why they speak the way they do. It doesn't help with translations, but I thought it was a cool explanation of why.

One of the dialog options I took actually explained why they speak like they do.

 

Gree have 5 senses that detect forms, and 3 for color. That's why they speak the way they do. It doesn't help with translations, but I thought it was a cool explanation of why.

 

Very interesting.

One of the dialog options I took actually explained why they speak like they do.

 

Gree have 5 senses that detect forms, and 3 for color. That's why they speak the way they do. It doesn't help with translations, but I thought it was a cool explanation of why.

 

This is very important in helping us decipher the meaning!

I've been researching this for days now (made much harder by how much google hates the word Gree) and have come to a few conclusions. Also, have two friends at Bioware (not working on SWTOR) and am hoping to get an email interview with the creators of the gree language sometime here.

 

 

Anyway, back to the task at hand for the time being. I'm going to focus on colors because that's all i have figured out.

Three color senses: one has to be white/black sense, I believe the other two are blue sense and red sense. Evidence for this, they use the terms "blue-shift" and "red-shift," which are scientific concepts already. The creators had to work from something lol. I believe that they see a spectrum from red to blue, with red being indicating something akin to 'good' and blue being 'bad'. This would put yellow in the middle as a neutral concept. Ergo, purple, being the blend between both the red-sense and blue-sense is something more than either of them. Perfection seems to be the widely accepted meaning of purple.

 

Some thoughts on the black and white. Either i think it's something to do with complexity (black being complex, white being mundane) or quantity (black being singular and white being multiples). Not sure, I've seen good arguments for both.

 

I'll write some more later, but feedback on these thoughts would be greatly appreciated! This language fascinates me for some reason

Edited February 2, 2012 by callousparade

it fascinates me as well and even though I'm not an english native speaker, I understood what the Gree Droids were saying. This has been one of my most favorite missions in SWTOR so far. I think the writing is brilliant.

I jotted down a bunch of the lines the Gree droids say that relate to their color/shape language-words. In no particular order or structure, here they are for study.

 

Senator, please comprehend. Repairing Coruscant's infrastructure is green obtuse. To form the red parallel, we need a black bisector.

The enclave bargains resources and offers reversal of Coruscant's yellow concave. We commit to white vertex to achieve this.

I speak attentively in hopes of comprehension. The bargain encounters great challenges. My delegates suffer assault effecting the maintenance. Fire, damage, and fear. Do you follow?

Impossible. My delegates require aid from one accustomed to fire, damage and chaos. A black bisector, you see?

My delegates will describe their black spheres for you. These are bold, courageous, mission-callings. Speak to them and learn.

Never going back... Never going back to blue nonagon. Now, I am yellow concave. Injuries mark my chassis forever, and why? Ungrateful humans!

That is difficult to impart. The level below is concentrated, strong, misery-wrongness. It is blue nonagon and horrible. Never going back.

I crafted a solution to achieve Pat-aK's command. All was orange sphere, until I arrived at the level below. Then, green perpendicular!

You offer yourself as a black bisector? That is a gratifying and unpredicted announcement! I pledge to provide items of Green ingenuity in return.

Take and apply my crafted solution to the hydrosupply. But do not apply before deactivating nearby flow-valves, or pressure-explosion-death will result!

Be alerted, Black Sun green perpendicular will provide onslaught. May you experience blue tangent and return intact...

You are unmarred by green perpendicular. I am gratified by this.

My black sphere evolves go a a purple parallel because of you. When I impart this development, Pat-aK will progress enthusiasm with the senator.

Operator units always inherit fouled labors. I administrate as well as Pat-aK, but I am marooned to waste processing! What have I done to incur white acute?

Many species attempt access of Gree ingenuity. This is no white convex-ah, mystery-puzzle-labor.

Pat-aK authorizes compensation of Republic credits to the black bisector who repossesses the optimization solution.

My aptitudes are grey sphere, but the enclave permits only Operator unit assignment. This is inequitable distribution of my aptitudes.

That is the expected response, black bisector. Why exhaust respiratory functions on it?

Ah, superior. This red tangent generates appreciativeness, black bisector.

With this optimization solution repossessed, Coruscant's waste processors revive. Filth-diseas-poison levels recede, plague outbreaks averted. All resolves to puprple parallel.

I am In-iK, science unit. Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.

The Gree language-form is dissimilar to Basic language-form. Because Gree senses are unique red bisectors!

Five Gree senses analyze forms. Three Gree senses soak color. So goes language. Other species miscommunicate our language-words.

Yes. A blue vertex has been achieved, and we must embed ourselves.

But enemy droid-machines intersect the power conduits and yellow-shift their functionality. Enemy droid-machines must stop, and conduits must be fixed.

I monitor the power conduits, and know where to implement purple-shifting. As black bisector, you can "take out" many, many droid-machines.

When I saw the words "Black Bisector", I thought it was something to do with the subtractive colour system...

http://www.colorsontheweb.com/images/subtractive.gif

 

http://www.colorsontheweb.com/colortheory.asp

"I'm pretty curious as to why people have such complicated answers to what 'Black Bisector' means. They describe it as someone who knows how to deal with 'fire-damage-and-chaos', which strongly implies someone used to fighting or dealing with dangerous situations. So 'black' likely means 'danger' or 'violence', and a 'bisector' is some who intercedes, given the actual meaning of the word. So a 'Black Bisector' is someone who deals with dangerous or violent situations, essentially a soldier."

 

"White, does not seem to have to be the opposite of Black, if that is the case, as a Gree droid asks for you to 'talk up' if your understanding of its words 'white-shifts', meaning 'white' likely refers to something troubling or difficult to understand or cope with. I'm still studying further, and it would be nice to have a real, comprehensive answer, but to truly understand the Gree, as of now, one must study every possible use of their words and the context surrounding them before reaching a conclusion."

It's simple: a black bisector = bad writer, a green perpendicular = bad writing, and purple haze = what inspired all the dumb sidequests on Coruscant. The Republic questing on that planet may be the worst of the game, IMMSHO.

It's simple: a black bisector = bad writer, a green perpendicular = bad writing, and purple haze = what inspired all the dumb sidequests on Coruscant. The Republic questing on that planet may be the worst of the game, IMMSHO.

 

Hey troll, some of us like non-generic things.

 

 

Anyway, how I see it

 

Parallel: Things moving in the same direction, things in-line (tee hee) with your stated goal

Parallelogram: Multiple parallels accomplished at once

Sphere: An encompassing area of interest

Tangent: Something unpredicted and unexpected

Bisector: One who is parallel with you and interacts with that which isn't

 

Black (absence of color): Something where action is needed or someone that takes action

White (all colors): The stated goal or whole which encompasses an over-arching all

Green: An outside group or force which may or may not be parallel

Purple: Both you, those associated with you, and others

 

So a purple parallelogram would be something good for everyone present.

The Republic questing on that planet may be the worst of the game, IMMSHO.

 

It beats the heck out of DK's quests. "Go here and do Sithy things to people" is the bulk of the whole planet.

 

On topic...

 

The Gree quest line is the best dialog in the whole game IMO. I love trying to figure out what they're actually saying. Plus they seem to be actually alien with a completely different way of looking at the world.

Edited May 1, 2012 by VanorDM

Anyway, how I see it

 

/snip

 

This seems to be the most accurate to me in regards to working on transliteration. There are several instances talking to the droids where they will use a different color with the same geometric term, or vice versa (black bisector, black sphere, blue sphere, etc etc)

 

I'd written out on paper as I came across color/term combinations and tried to define them using the context I came across them in. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the notes so when I find them I shall update the thread.

I mostly play Empire but I did this questline for the first time on my Rep Trooper a month or two back, and whilst it took me a few sentences to actually find understanding (rather than just hearing gibberish xD), when my comprehension reached a certain point, I found myself totally digging this dialogue!

 

Interesting theories that some people have come up with... If anyone ever gets a definitive answer on the language I hope they post it here for us all to read

Would be nice to see more of the Gree (or - more specifically I believe - their droid emissaries); I'm actually saddened by the fact that you cannot do similar quests on the Imp side of things!

 

However, by the end of the questline (and after spending all day and night one weekend playing my Trooper), I decided that:

 

You know you've played too much SW:TOR when.... you understand what the Gree droids are saying without having to think very hard.

 

lol.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Mia_Sohma
clarification

I seem to have lost the notes so when I find them I shall update the thread.

 

Boom. Dug them out, of all things, my study notes for my Latin final a couple weeks ago. Anyway, I derped up slightly and never wrote down the context for things (thankfully, someone's got a transcript earlier in the thread), but this is the complete list of terms I came across on two playthroughs (both Consulars, but different servers):

 

Green obtuse

Red parallel

Black bisector

Yellow concave

White vertex

Black sphere

Blue nonagon

Orange sphere

Green Perpendicular

Blue tangent

Yellow equilateral

Purple parallel

White acute

Grey sphere

Whiteshift

Ochre tetrasphere

Yellowshift

Purpleshift

Red tangent

Grey pentachoron

Purple equilateral

Blue parallel

Blue obtuse

Blue vertex

Red bisector

 

Given the usage of multiple colors with the same term (or vice versa) I think they are separate sense units (to borrow a linguistics term), ie. the color can be translated without the term. I may or may not have fallen into the bias of assuming because colors are adjectives in human languages, they are too in Greespeak (cheating, one might say, knowing that Bioware's writers are themselves human).

 

In any event, this interpretation has yielded results that fit within the contexts of the term pair usage; and, given that once I decided on a likely meaning for a term, it fit within subsequent contexts the term was found, I believe my analysis accurate to some degree. The geometric terms which are nonsense (pentachoron, tetrasphere) I believe reflect something of the Gree belief system, or possibly, in the case of tetrasphere, cultural system (beyond the language). Anyway, here is the list broken down by color and geometric term, with related translations.

 

Colors

Green: I believe Green indicates a superlative, ie. "very" or "most" in English (cp. Latin -issimus, -a, -um, etc)

Red: Good, regardless of possible moral compass or not (Good day, Good person, etc.) See White and Yellow.

Black: Fierce/skilled

Yellow: Moral opposite of Red. (Evil, etc)

White: Generic opposite of Red (eg. bad taste, etc)

Blue: normal, regular

Orange: Possibly easy. This term only came up once.

Purple: Complete, fixed, etc (cp. compound verbs of Facio, facere in Latin).

Grey: I believe Grey may be not an adjective, but the preposition "above" or similar adjectives.

Ochre: I have no idea as the term only came up once - and only paired with a nonsensical geometric term. I believe this may be part of the Gree belief system (see Tetrasphere).

 

Geometric terms

Obtuse: possibly important/importance.

Parallel: Solution, in the sense of "making something as it should be" or "sorting out"

Bisector: Warrior/Champion

Concave: damage, disrepair

Vertex: I believe this is something like discord (as a vertex is two lines that touch, not a parallel, but not as ungood as a perpendicular)

Sphere: Task, duty

Nonagon: area, place

Perpendicular: Only seen once, but the context seems to give credence to meaning danger or similar (opposite of a parallel)

Tangent: this seems to mean an emotional state, modified by colors to indicate of what sort (ie. a black tangent would be anger, etc or red tangent seems to indicate happiness)

Equilateral: Not a clue. It's used in the sense of "yellow equilateral" to mean something about destroying or dealing with hostile forces, but later with purple to mean something like "everything is working now"

Acute: Only seen once, but I believe this is something like hostility or a grudge, given that the droid is talking about his superiors overlooking his talents.

Tetrasphere: Possibly religious concept or some kind of social construct. I am less certain about the meaning of tetrasphere than I am pentachoron, below.

Pentachoron: Given Grey's possible meaning of "above" and the context this is given in, the Grey Pentachoron seems to be some kind of afterlife. There is nothing available in the context to determine whether it is a good or bad place to end up - it is simply given as a statement that if your character messes with Gree technology, they will end up here (ie. die and go there). It MAY be negative because it's a warning against screwing with Gree tech. Arguments could also be made for it being positive given your character's so far aiding the droids.

Convex: I have this translated as "mystery" but I have no idea if that's my commentary on not knowing what it means of if that's what I think it means - I never wrote down the phrase it was given in so I can't figure out my own notes on this term. Derp.

 

And that is my analysis.

 

-Sovngarde, Jung Ma Republic

 

So a purple parallelogram would be something good for everyone present.

 

"Except, parallelogram wasn't used."

 

~My black sphere evolves go a a purple parallel because of you...~

 

"That's the only line used in that context. Notably, while looking over the lines I've definitely changed what I think about 'white', but I think the problem is people are trying to approach this too 'humanly', or trying to make the ideas too broad. There is an issue where almost everything the Gree say is related to a single set of problems (namely, broken mechanical things and the need for a soldier/warrior to fight enemies to fix them), so we cannot get a lot of different types of context."

 

"Anyway, I'm still reverse engineering it as I go through the lines posted here."

 

Given the usage of multiple colors with the same term (or vice versa) I think they are separate sense units (to borrow a linguistics term), ie. the color can be translated without the term. I may or may not have fallen into the bias of assuming because colors are adjectives in human languages, they are too in Greespeak (cheating, one might say, knowing that Bioware's writers are themselves human).

 

"Well, you've definitely captured more of the spirit of how I am approaching this, but I believe that colors do not have to be adjectives specifically because the language is alien, so from the standpoint of a writer, they *might* flip that to make the language more alien. I think colors act as a descriptor for what the geometric forms interact with, such as 'Black' being 'violence' or 'danger', and 'White' being 'speech', 'diplomacy' and/or 'comprehension'."

Edited May 1, 2012 by RyukanoHi

i don't know that bisector is champion as they identify their senses as "unique red bisectors" if you ask in-iK about himself.

he also mentions that they have 5 senses that analyze form and 3 that soak color.

 

as for Yellow Equilateral: i would see that as conflict of opposing perpendiculars.

 

also, convex seems more like 'secret' than mystery though both terms fit i suppose