As others said before, the whole point of an enrage timer is to check your gear. If you can`t keep up damage while trying to survive the boss`s mechanics it is because you messed something up or your gear is lacking.

People who say there are no boss mechanics must not do HMs or Operations, because they are in there.

Enrage timer exist because for some reason devs never figured out how to make you run out of resources. If you don't lose resources you pretty much can win by mathematical induction.

It's not really a gear check or DPS check even. It's just a bandaid fix for a bad design but every MMORPG since WoW has had the same problem. You'd have to go back to a game like EQ1 where the boss can originally deplete your mana reserves very quickly, and some hit so hard that you can't outlast them even if you had infinite mana. Of course eventually EQ1 went to enrage timers too...

This is my understanding, generally speaking (correct me if I am wrong)...

If your tank dies or you have a bad tank, your raid will most likely wipe.

If your healer dies or you have a bad healer, your raid will most likely wipe.

If your dps dies or you have a bad dps, AND there is no enrage timer, you will keep whacking away and eventually win.

If your dps dies or you have a bad dps, AND there IS an enrage timer, you will most likely wipe due to enrage.

IMO enrage timers seem to be a mechanism to make sure that dps is held to the same standards as tank/heal.

there have already been several threads on this subject already. you have pointed out nothing new.

but

it is lazy dev design if every boss has them.

they do have a place in certain zones for one or two bosses to show what is needed to defeat the remaining boss encounters. this is the most common use for them.

there are other means to get the same outcome without having the mob enrage. like adds spawn more quickly, the mob starts casting more frequently and etc. this takes time to test and implement which the game didnt have.

this game was rushed to launch and this encounter type mechanic was used too frequently because of it. by now most of use already knew this but are patiently awaiting its completion.

complaining about it wont get it fixed. it is a well known issue.

People who think enrage timers are a necessity are just simple minded. The most obvious example of where an Enrage timer is completely unnecessary is Soa. Now, what does Soa do that is really dangerous? He spawns lightning balls. What's a simple mechanic to increasing his difficulty without this enrage ****? Have him gradually spawn more of them. The reason solutions like these are superior to enrage is that

A) You can, with skill, work through them. It's not just an 'oh enrage, **** we're all dead' - which doesn't even make sense if you think about it.

B) It adds much needed variety to some of these bosses. Most of them are pretty simplistic at the moment. In fairness they aren't too bad, Soa for instance is fairly different to the rest, but more variety never hurt anyone.

So I suppose I'm saying I understand some form of Enrage - I just don't think it ought to be this stupid 'buff' that appears and causes you to wipe. It does seem lazy of the developers. And it really locks you into a single way of doing things, which is a bad thing when it's something you need to do repetitively.

Enrage timers are terrible. They force you into tank/healer/2 dps for ops, or tank/2healer/5dps for 8 mans. Have two tanks, healer, and a dps? Can't do anything. Have two healers, tank, and a dps? Can't do anything. Have 3 tanks, 2 healers, 3 dps? Awesome, you can make one 4 man group, 4 people sit around and do nothing.

Even if you have tank/healer/2 dps, if one of the dps is a relatively new 50, you probably aren't going to beat the enrage timer. Sooooo frustrating, and so difficult to gear up that person.

It's so ridiculously hard to form groups on light population servers as it is, the enrage timers just make it that much more difficult, for no reason.

People who say there are no boss mechanics must not do HMs or Operations, because they are in there.

The difficulty of boss mechanics is pathetic. Most raiders coming from WoW are used to much higher difficulties and interesting abilities. The only way the devs knew how to make the encounters even remotely challenging was by including enrage timers. There should be soft enrages and hard enrages spread evenly throughout the bosses in FPs. There are fights where enrages make sense with the boss (Foreman Crusher), but hard enrages shouldn't occur before soft enrages (Karagga).

Variety is always better!

Enrage timers are terrible. They force you into tank/healer/2 dps for ops, or tank/2healer/5dps for 8 mans. Have two tanks, healer, and a dps? Can't do anything. Have two healers, tank, and a dps? Can't do anything. Have 3 tanks, 2 healers, 3 dps? Awesome, you can make one 4 man group, 4 people sit around and do nothing.

 

Even if you have tank/healer/2 dps, if one of the dps is a relatively new 50, you probably aren't going to beat the enrage timer. Sooooo frustrating, and so difficult to gear up that person.

 

It's so ridiculously hard to form groups on light population servers as it is, the enrage timers just make it that much more difficult, for no reason.

I hear ya. My friends and I had found the 1 tank/2 healer/1 dps route successful for normal mode FPs and most heroics but it just doesn't fly for HM FP in which you MUST go 1 tank/2 dps/1 healer or you Fail.

If anything a slight push back (30 sec) on specific boss enrage timers might be the lazy fix with more interesting mechanics being the ideal.

IMO, HM FP are not very doable unless everyone has some tier pieces because they are not easy. Repair costs are also Nasty with minimal credit drops inside. Its just easier to do Normal / Story Mode Ops if you are looking to help gear new 50's in your guild and avoid FPs all together if you are trying to gear them with PvE stuff. I personally love running dungeon type instances but that was my biggest letdown when I first turned 50 - the HM Flashpoints. Reminded me of when ZA/ZG came out in a WOW Patch - wipe-a-thon. (And yes, we did run the level 50 Normals easily to gear up prior).

I hear ya. My friends and I had found the 1 tank/2 healer/1 dps route successful for normal mode FPs and most heroics but it just doesn't fly for HM FP in which you MUST go 1 tank/2 dps/1 healer or you Fail.

 

If anything a slight push back (30 sec) on specific boss enrage timers might be the lazy fix with more interesting mechanics being the ideal.

 

IMO, HM FP are not very doable unless everyone has some tier pieces because they are not easy. Repair costs are also Nasty with minimal credit drops inside. Its just easier to do Normal / Story Mode Ops if you are looking to help gear new 50's in your guild and avoid FPs all together if you are trying to gear them with PvE stuff. I personally love running dungeon type instances but that was my biggest letdown when I first turned 50 - the HM Flashpoints. Reminded me of when ZA/ZG came out in a WOW Patch - wipe-a-thon. (And yes, we did run the level 50 Normals easily to gear up prior).

Well one of the things that the 1.2 notes said they were going to fix is increasing the amount of credits that drop, although I don't recall off the top of my head if that's just operations or if it includes flashpoints as well. So that will be a bit of a bonus when it comes to dealing with repair bills.

IMO, HM FP are not very doable unless everyone has some tier pieces because they are not easy. Repair costs are also Nasty with minimal credit drops inside. Its just easier to do Normal / Story Mode Ops if you are looking to help gear new 50's in your guild and avoid FPs all together if you are trying to gear them with PvE stuff. I personally love running dungeon type instances but that was my biggest letdown when I first turned 50 - the HM Flashpoints. Reminded me of when ZA/ZG came out in a WOW Patch - wipe-a-thon. (And yes, we did run the level 50 Normals easily to gear up prior).

HMFPs are specifically tuned to be challenging, they're not supposed to be the first thing you do when you get to 50. TBH, new 50s shouldn't be gearing in HMFPs. New 50s should run dailies for about a week to get all their mod slots upgraded and get rakata implants and ear pieces. Once you're fully geared in dailies, then HMFPs will be much more managable and your dps will have an easier time beating enrage.

This is my understanding, generally speaking (correct me if I am wrong)...

 

If your tank dies or you have a bad tank, your raid will most likely wipe.

If your healer dies or you have a bad healer, your raid will most likely wipe.

If your dps dies or you have a bad dps, AND there is no enrage timer, you will keep whacking away and eventually win.

If your dps dies or you have a bad dps, AND there IS an enrage timer, you will most likely wipe due to enrage.

 

IMO enrage timers seem to be a mechanism to make sure that dps is held to the same standards as tank/heal.

Exactly this. Enrage timers are in the game to make sure that the DPS are doing their job just like the Tank and Healer's are. There are other more creative ways to make sure DPS are doing their job but the devs, for whatever reason, decided to go the easy route and go with enrage timers.

I fully support DPS having to perform to a certain level in order to complete the fight, otherwise it would be a free ride for anyone playing DPS. Although I would rather them have more engaging mechanics that achieve this effect rather than simply putting a set timer on the boss to make him die.

I felt that Rift did this pretty well. They had enrage timers on bosses but they also had other mechanics that required DPS to be performing well. For example I remember a fight in one of the Tier 1 raids where the boss would fly up into the air every 25% and spawn adds which if weren't killed in time would heal him up pretty significantly causing the next phase to last longer, making it more difficult as he spawned things around the room that needed to be avoided and wouldn't go away until he was dead. He still had an enrage but it was very rare to see it as these mechanics were basically his enrage. It's fights like this that I enjoy, actual mechanics that require your DPS to be on the top of their game but not a simple "beat on the boss and kill him before 3 minutes is up or you lose".

Enrage timer exist because for some reason devs never figured out how to make you run out of resources. If you don't lose resources you pretty much can win by mathematical induction.

 

It's not really a gear check or DPS check even. It's just a bandaid fix for a bad design but every MMORPG since WoW has had the same problem. You'd have to go back to a game like EQ1 where the boss can originally deplete your mana reserves very quickly, and some hit so hard that you can't outlast them even if you had infinite mana. Of course eventually EQ1 went to enrage timers too...

EQ1 resolved to nerf mod rods to mitigate the issue, worked fairly well. I was in one of those mod rod factory guilds, we had to modify strats hehe.

My problem with the enrage timers ensuring dps is contributing is that it doesn't factor in melee vs ranged. Right now you pretty much want to have all of your dps ranged, which sucks for anyone who went melee dps (like me). Ranged dps provides a much more consistent dps rate. Try running Karragas Palace with 4 melee dps if you disagree.

I completely disagree, if your melee dps are competent you won't have issues. My guild cleared both of the HM ops with only me as a ranged dps the 4 other being melee(we did 1 tank on all fights except Jharg/Sorno on HM).

I completely disagree, if your melee dps are competent you won't have issues. My guild cleared both of the HM ops with only me as a ranged dps the 4 other being melee(we did 1 tank on all fights except Jharg/Sorno on HM).

I agree with the other guy, ranged dps have a distinct advantage in most encounters. Sure, once you're all geared up past what is needed at a minimum for completion, you can do it with sub-optimal groups, but if you're pushing the limits of what your group can do, bringing ranged instead of melee can put you over the top. They simply have more up-time on the mobs and can easily avoid AOEs while still cranking out high dps numbers. Melee have to constantly be moving and often times that means missing attacks.

Take Bonethrasher in KP, for example. Sure, it's possible to do that with all melee DPS, but it's 100x easier with all ranged dps.

I agree with the other guy, ranged dps have a distinct advantage in most encounters. Sure, once you're all geared up past what is needed at a minimum for completion, you can do it with sub-optimal groups, but if you're pushing the limits of what your group can do, bringing ranged instead of melee can put you over the top. They simply have more up-time on the mobs and can easily avoid AOEs while still cranking out high dps numbers. Melee have to constantly be moving and often times that means missing attacks.

 

Take Bonethrasher in KP, for example. Sure, it's possible to do that with all melee DPS, but it's 100x easier with all ranged dps.

On the flipside, a lot of ranged dps have channeling times on their good DPS abilities whereas most melee's are instant.

There are fights where enrages make sense with the boss (Foreman Crusher), but hard enrages shouldn't occur before soft enrages (Karagga).

 

Variety is always better!

There is no soft enrage on Karagga. You will hit Karagga's hard enrage (yes, he has one) well before you run out of room. This will only happen if more than one DPS dies before execute range (and even that is tough to do, unless you take 5 melee dps, then it's much easier).