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Scum & Villainy (NiM) 8-Man Progression Tracking


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Any update on this?

 

Yea we tried somethings but it would require too many changes to the spreadsheet. I was really hoping we could adjust a variable we had put in there and get the results we wanted but that didn't work. So it'll stay the way it is. Its something we will definitely fix for the next round of progression in the fall. I apologize.

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I personally don't think it needs a lot of changes right now. Top 5 have all cleared it, and it's far down to the guilds that haven't. So what's the problem?

 

Edit. I see now that it's <Haterade>. Decent rank for every boss, full clear, but ranked quite low. Too hard time-punishment?

Edited by Amantino
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Yea we tried somethings but it would require too many changes to the spreadsheet. I was really hoping we could adjust a variable we had put in there and get the results we wanted but that didn't work. So it'll stay the way it is. Its something we will definitely fix for the next round of progression in the fall. I apologize.

 

Seems more like a flawed system of which I still do not see its real benefits, have you not considered just using this format? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=660217

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I personally don't think it needs a lot of changes right now. Top 5 have all cleared it, and it's far down to the guilds that haven't. So what's the problem?

 

Edit. I see now that it's <Haterade>. Decent rank for every boss, full clear, but ranked quite low. Too hard time-punishment?

 

Ultimately I agree with you, at this point whatever, but it does point out the flaws of this system and puts its validity into serious question.

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Meh ill agree with you two there, but after all points are not important, at all, for me at least, but i guess hes right when the "ranking" order with those points can be misleading to guilds like those which kill ranking are higher than Points ranking for "any reason". so doesnt make sense a guild that cleared 7th is ranked under others that have not :S.

 

What i think you should add in there, or for next one, that would solve this problem is, right next to the points column in the first sheet, add 2 more columns "Kill Ranking", Title "Ranking"... that way people can be the own judges, lets say {hatred overall 1st - 4600 points - 3rd Kill.R - 1st Title.R}... someone is at 9 rank points, but is 7th KR and 5th TR lets say, people will know, 7th for kills, 5th for titles really good, and 9th overall for "whatever reason", after all what matter is when did you kill it and when did you get title, points are just extra part for fun, because they are not completely accurate, and wont ever be fair for everyone :(.

Edited by Carlenux
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Ultimately I agree with you, at this point whatever, but it does point out the flaws of this system and puts its validity into serious question.

 

Its flawed yes, everyone knows who has cleared it and hasn't. Could it be like the 16 version were it lists each boss and kills? Yes, in the end it truly doesn't matter.

 

Doing a more complicated system or reworking it is a time sink and its not needed currently.

Edited by JDotter
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Meh ill agree with you two there, but after all points are not important, at all, for me at least, but i guess hes right when the "ranking" order with those points can be misleading to guilds like those which kill ranking are higher than Points ranking for "any reason". so doesnt make sense a guild that cleared 7th is ranked under others that have not :S.

 

What i think you should add in there, or for next one, that would solve this problem is, right next to the points column in the first sheet, add 2 more columns "Kill Ranking", Title "Ranking"... that way people can be the own judges, lets say {hatred overall 1st - 4600 points - 3rd Kill.R - 1st Title.R}... someone is at 9 rank points, but is 7th KR and 5th TR lets say, people will know, 7th for kills, 5th for titles really good, and 9th overall for "whatever reason", after all what matter is when did you kill it and when did you get title, points are just extra part for fun, because they are not completely accurate, and wont ever be fair for everyone :(.

 

We'll probably do something like that. More columns on the first sheet showing more info. Like you guys were first title. But DiLiH was first clear. And that's not represented on the first page. Only when you dig deeper and look through all of the kills. Not sure how many actually go through it. I think most just stop at the first page.

 

Seems more like a flawed system of which I still do not see its real benefits, have you not considered just using this format? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=660217

 

It served its purpose. Everyone knew who the best 8-man guilds were because we ranked them. I didn't see anyone else jumping all of the forums to put something like this together. So feel free to take over with your own system for the next round of progression.

 

And honestly that goes for anyone. If you feel you can do better. Do it. We did it because nobody else wanted to. If you think you can do better or the same or worse...basically if you want to do it for the fall do it.

Edited by Iggyemu
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We'll probably do something like that. More columns on the first sheet showing more info. Like you guys were first title. But DiLiH was first clear. And that's not represented on the first page. Only when you dig deeper and look through all of the kills. Not sure how many actually go through it. I think most just stop at the first page.

 

 

 

It served its purpose. Everyone knew who the best 8-man guilds were because we ranked them. I didn't see anyone else jumping all of the forums to put something like this together. So feel free to take over with your own system for the next round of progression.

 

And honestly that goes for anyone. If you feel you can do better. Do it. We did it because nobody else wanted to. If you think you can do better or the same or worse...basically if you want to do it for the fall do it.

 

i agree on both statements :)... the extra columns will add a decent fix for it :).

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No need to get defensive, I appreciate the effort of putting this together and managing it. But for future reference "no one else would do it" is not a free pass from scrutiny. You obviously understand the responsibility of doing this and if the questions are annoying you can not do it. I know I'm not volunteering myself and if I did I can guarantee I'd screw it up. Keep up the good work it is appreciated.
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We'll probably do something like that. More columns on the first sheet showing more info. Like you guys were first title. But DiLiH was first clear. And that's not represented on the first page. Only when you dig deeper and look through all of the kills. Not sure how many actually go through it. I think most just stop at the first page.

 

 

 

It served its purpose. Everyone knew who the best 8-man guilds were because we ranked them. I didn't see anyone else jumping all of the forums to put something like this together. So feel free to take over with your own system for the next round of progression.

 

And honestly that goes for anyone. If you feel you can do better. Do it. We did it because nobody else wanted to. If you think you can do better or the same or worse...basically if you want to do it for the fall do it.

 

What I was getting at. It served its purpose everyone knows who killed styrak quickly and has killed him. No one else would be willing to step up or attempt to organize it .

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No need to get defensive, I appreciate the effort of putting this together and managing it. But for future reference "no one else would do it" is not a free pass from scrutiny. You obviously understand the responsibility of doing this and if the questions are annoying you can not do it. I know I'm not volunteering myself and if I did I can guarantee I'd screw it up. Keep up the good work it is appreciated.

 

 

He wasn't getting defensive

 

 

Personally if I put in the time he/suckafish did and someone was upset they killed styrak and aren't ranked 7th and needed the personal validation to see where they are ranked is somewhat silly.

 

In the end in its all for fun and you guys were the 7th to kill styrak guild wise and everyone who pays attention knows that.

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He wasn't getting defensive

 

 

Personally if I put in the time he/suckafish did and someone was upset they killed styrak and aren't ranked 7th and needed the personal validation to see where they are ranked is somewhat silly.

 

In the end in its all for fun and you guys were the 7th to kill styrak guild wise and everyone who pays attention knows that.

We were actually 6th :), just seems weird that the 6th guild in the world to clear it gets ranked in 9th for the instance, feel it would be hard to justifiably explain that as 6th 7th and 8th place havent even completed the instance.

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He wasn't getting defensive

 

 

Personally if I put in the time he/suckafish did and someone was upset they killed styrak and aren't ranked 7th and needed the personal validation to see where they are ranked is somewhat silly.

 

In the end in its all for fun and you guys were the 7th to kill styrak guild wise and everyone who pays attention knows that.

 

So what is the point of this at all if there isn't validation? Validation implies validity and this sheet is not valid so how about you continue to call me silly and not add to the conversation.

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agree with you, but either way, she will fix it with either adding two columns more to solve problem or something else, but i do see your problem, like ive said, points are for the top 3-4 guilds depending how many clear first week, it has an importance on the top 4-5 considering kills were 1-2 days of each others + titles gave point boost so its "comparable" once you start adding kills that are 1-2-3 weeks behind first, it really lose its point, i saw a boss that gave 50 points only vs 630 lol, a group might do his first run today and clear 7/7 in one night, still be World 7th clear and be like 14th ranking for points deficit, so unless you are in the actual 1-2 days difference competition on the top of the rankings where it does make sense, points should not worry you, you are 6th, the people that "matters" knows it :).
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We were actually 6th :), just seems weird that the 6th guild in the world to clear it gets ranked in 9th for the instance, feel it would be hard to justifiably explain that as 6th 7th and 8th place havent even completed the instance.

 

DnT killed it 2 weeks ago just didn't post. Yes its weird, but there is no point in fixing the flaw at this given time. I just had a issue with the work suckafish does for the swtor community and you guys aren't happy because you are ranked in the wrong spot. Like I mentioned before points are silly only thing that matters are the dates it was killed and who killed it.

 

So what is the point of this at all if there isn't validation? Validation implies validity and this sheet is not valid so how about you continue to call me silly and not add to the conversation.

 

 

Its for fun and for those who like to compete to compete. Everyone knows when you guys killed it may not be reflected in a spreadsheet but you were the 7th kill and thats that. Like carl posted someone could go kill everything this week and have the #8 kill of stryak and that would matter not the X amount of points to said guild name.

 

 

I see your point and agree with it don't get me wrong it does need to be fixed but not now its pointless and probably not until the next NM patch should it be addressed.

 

I just didn't like you guys complaining it needed to be reworked when suckafish does it for the community and gets nothing but grief in return.

Edited by JDotter
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I just didn't like you guys complaining it needed to be reworked when suckafish does it for the community and gets nothing but grief in return.

 

My first comments were not at all accusatory, in fact I was asking for an update to an open ended statement the OP made about there being a mistake that needed fixing and that a fix was coming. This is grief? I think a few of you have confused my intentions and attitude towards the matter. I actually agree there isn't much point in changing the current sheet but I did want to make sure the point was made so that if this was carried on to new content it could be evolved and improved.

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We did invite the community to come and discuss the the spreadsheet. We were even ready to explain it. But no one showed, we even used a neutral mumble, not even a pm. Since you all seem to be the pros take it over like the man said, am sure he would be happy to turn it over to someone who wants to do it. And am sorry to say he who sets it up writes the rules. I mean really is it that big of a deal? I mean really who cares about the points anyways, first is first in the end. We know who the top guilds are. Don't worry it was a conspiracy against your guild to make you look bad smh. Edited by ancksunamur
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No need to get defensive, I appreciate the effort of putting this together and managing it. But for future reference "no one else would do it" is not a free pass from scrutiny. You obviously understand the responsibility of doing this and if the questions are annoying you can not do it. I know I'm not volunteering myself and if I did I can guarantee I'd screw it up. Keep up the good work it is appreciated.

 

Wasn't getting the defensive or dodging scrutiny. All I am saying is that we cannot come up with a system that pleases everyone. The 8-man guild community is much larger than the 16. In 16 you need to please at most 6 or 7 guilds. For 8 its 20. And that's just not possible.

 

My point is that Suckafish is not the official 8-man progression ranking guild. If anyone has a better system and wants to implement it for the next round of progression, you are welcomed to it. Just let us know beforehand so we don't put one together ourselves.

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