1.44% net damage reduction, you must think we are all stupid you pulled that math formula out of your ***? So far the only people moaning about this thread are shadows and assassins, Just wait and see the nerf will come.

Since you're so smart, show us how much damage reduction you figure it to give.

I clearly put it up there so everyone could see where the number came from. It's just a logic process and grade school math.

If every attack could be shielded, it would give 24% damage reduction for a PvP geared Kinetic player. Of course, every attack cannot be shielded because most of the attacks going around in a PvP environment are Force or Tech attack types. I estimated somewhat generously to your cause 40% of total damage even being Melee or Ranged attack types; if you estimate a different number, tell us what it is and calculate with that. I'm also ignoring crits being unshieldable, again generously to your cause. Of that % of potentially shieldable attacks, a PvP geared Kinetic player only gets 15% shield chance from Kinetic Ward.

15% of 40% of 24% is really small number. It happens to be 1.44%.

Maybe you think the numbers are a little off…so you think it should be 15% of 50% of 30%... Guess what, still a really small number. Logical conclusion still remains: Kinetic Ward is pathetic in PvP.

I can't believe anyone can actually say Kinetic Ward is op or even a factor in pvp. There is a reason why nearly all assassin/shadows roll with dps gear and often don't even use a shield offhand.

My bud who plays his assassin as his main and we do a ton of pvp together always pops Dark Ward in hopes it actually does something and the result is always the same. He takes on 2-3 players at once, gets bombastigated by attacks for a very long time, finally dies and notices his ward charges have barely proc'd at all during the entire fight.

Why? Because most of the incoming attacks are attacks that bypass the charges entirely.

Anyone here saying that the total mitigation from ward charges is anywhere over 1-2% in an average pvp encounter is smoking some serious stuff.

Unimportant

I'm going to start directing people to come here for debate training cause that's all it is after the first few posts lol... Obviously something is wrong if majority here are giving you a number of reasons that your wrong. But that's not the point, all your doing here is try to make a comeback to their post, pretty sure you will probably do the same to mine. All this negative energy, its like your all running for president or something. Spend less time talking and more time working on yourself. You cant expect the whole game to change because things are not going your way and you shouldn't expect it. Suggestions are better heard than demands.

Point

Anyway, I wont go into the whole, dragged out explanation of why I personally believe sins are not OP. I will say... I see your point of view and understand, however there are a variety of ways to counter or beat each class with each class, is it possible you just haven't found one that works. Adapt and overcome...

Tips that all can take in

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

-Albert Einstein

Until you have tried everything, every rotation, every method in your power to beat them you should not complain, because that means you have room to improve and a reason to continue to play. (Unless its utterly ridiculous of course... meaning 10k crits every other proc type ridiculous). I personally love when I have a hard time beating a class, its what I want in a game. A challenge... and if the class is OP I will be those few who say its not after time, because I adjusted to their style and beat it. I didn't need the whole game to change, why should you? (And I am assuming you have the ability and potential to improve with that comment)

By no means is this a troll post and I hope you don't take it as such. Im just saying you made your point, justified it. You don't need to make everyone else believe you. If bio agrees its for the best, it will change. Just food for thought in the meantime... It is easier to work on yourself then trying to make their game work for you...

Take what was said however you will. Meanwhile... I will be enjoying myself in the game. Stop the madness and political debates!

KW needs a buff if anything... Good lord. The charges disappear immediately in PvE, the charges never get used in PvP, and ITS A PAIN IN THE BUTT TO CONSTANTLY REFRESH.

I spend half my gcds just maintaining debuffs/kw. Most annoying tank mechanic ever

Also.. I rerolled JKG for pvp. 2 leaps, push, and uberward are just to beast to ignore.

'' Overpowered CC? Are you kidding me? A 2s knockdown and a 4s stun is OP?

'' Overpowered CC? Are you kidding me? A 2s knockdown and a 4s stun is OP?

'' Overpowered CC? Are you kidding me? A 2s knockdown and a 4s stun is OP?

'' Overpowered CC? Are you kidding me? A 2s knockdown and a 4s stun is OP?

'' Overpowered CC? Are you kidding me? A 2s knockdown and a 4s stun is OP?

'' Overpowered CC? Are you kidding me? A 2s knockdown and a 4s stun is OP?

NERF WILL COME SOON AND GUES WHAT ONLY THE GOOD PLAYERS WILL AND STAY LIKE WHAT HAPEND WITH OPERATIVES ALSO BE HAPPY WITH YOUR IMBA CLASS ATM SEE U SOON .

I HAVE STEALTH /VANISH/3 CC ABILLITES /SPRINT/1 MILLION DEFENSIVE COOLDWONS TO USE I XXXX FREAKING 2 SHOT PPL AND YES AM I oVERRrPOwwwweeeerrreddddddddddd????????????????????????????????

Enough i will post irrefutable prove of a Jedi shadow tank spec doing overpowered nonsense on a warzone, for more reference please refer to this thread, the evidence is now irrefutable and with screen shots to back them up this time. Go to this thread:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=336999

Stats for a level 50 Valor 68 focus specced Guardian in battlemaster gear:

http://imageshack.us/f/94/focus3x.jpg/

Stats for a pro level 19 assassin if scaled accordingly you can only imagine what that assassin could do at level 50 battlemaster geared:

http://imageshack.us/f/23/swtor2012030111361568.jpg/

The top tier assassin have been consistently getting 600K-800K + damage in warzone, that has been confirmed, it is irrefutable, a fully tank specced ***/Shadow can do 600/100/100 in high tier warzones, that is overpowered x 2.

The prove is now irrefutable, that Shadow/Assassin are completely overpowered, they are virtually able to do 600K dps 100k protection and 100k healing, in a single WZ match at battlemaster level, to those of you dirty cheaters in denial, be warned you cannot escape your fate forever, once the community pvp maturity catch up with the overal game imbalance, say bye bye to your overpowered Shadow.

...your links are images of a level 19 Assassin. They don't scale that way, you can't take lv.19 stats and say "hurk hurk I'd do 800k at lv 50".

LEVEL 19.

19.

Nineteen.

Seriously. Stop. You are hurting the community. You are a NEGATIVE INFLUENCE on the community. What you are doing, ranting and providing bad information? It's bad for everyone. People who are dumb enough to think your information is accurate will roll Assassins and be hugely disappointed when they find out they're actually somewhat mediocre at 50.

People who know that you're full of it are just annoyed and frustrated with your ranting. The devs aren't going to take your advice, they just posted in your thread asking you to stop posting in such an inflammatory manner, and I'd hazard a guess the length of time between your posts *may* be related to their actions as well.

STOP.

ENOUGH.

You've made your point, you think Assassins are OP. Not a single poster in your thread has agreed with you. Not. A. Single. One. Get it? You're wrong. Sorry, your opinion is incorrect, you are entitled to continue having it but please stop wasting our time by yelling it at us and insulting us when we disagree.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

The Entire SWTOR Community.

DPS Sith assassins/Shadow are fine. Tank sith assasins/jedi shadows are brokenly OP. More burst than any other tank? More mitigation than any other tank? Truckloads of self healing? Uninterruptable spells? Vanish? Pull? And to top it off, sprint, to make them gods of huttball/escape/gap closing. Tank assassins have nearly every skill in the game, can do 2/3 the damage of a pure dps, are nigh unkillable (especially when paired with a healer), and have 500 different methods of escape/temporary invincibility.

Calling it now--will be the most dominant spec in rated warzones.

Infiltration spec are squishy as $@#%

When I see a shadow with rocks swirling around them, I just run away. Even If I try it'll be a quick and painless death on my operative, or a slow and painful one on my merc

DPS Sith assassins/Shadow are fine. Tank sith assasins/jedi shadows are brokenly OP. More burst than any other tank? More mitigation than any other tank? Truckloads of self healing? Uninterruptable spells? Vanish? Pull? And to top it off, sprint, to make them gods of huttball/escape/gap closing. Tank assassins have nearly every skill in the game, can do 2/3 the damage of a pure dps, are nigh unkillable (especially when paired with a healer), and have 500 different methods of escape/temporary invincibility.

 

Calling it now--will be the most dominant spec in rated warzones.

Agreed, i do not mean the entire shadow or assassin class, but the Shadow tank must be nerfed hard, there's many shadow players trying to defend the indefensible, but like i said it's only a matter of time, the sooner the better.

Agreed, i do not mean the entire shadow or assassin class, but the Shadow tank must be nerfed hard, there's many shadow players trying to defend the indefensible, but like i said it's only a matter of time, the sooner the better.

Grats, you found one person in 19 pages that agrees with you. Is the thread over yet?

...your links are images of a level 19 Assassin. They don't scale that way, you can't take lv.19 stats and say "hurk hurk I'd do 800k at lv 50".

 

LEVEL 19.

19.

Nineteen.

 

Seriously. Stop. You are hurting the community. You are a NEGATIVE INFLUENCE on the community. What you are doing, ranting and providing bad information? It's bad for everyone. People who are dumb enough to think your information is accurate will roll Assassins and be hugely disappointed when they find out they're actually somewhat mediocre at 50.

 

People who know that you're full of it are just annoyed and frustrated with your ranting. The devs aren't going to take your advice, they just posted in your thread asking you to stop posting in such an inflammatory manner, and I'd hazard a guess the length of time between your posts *may* be related to their actions as well.

 

STOP.

ENOUGH.

 

You've made your point, you think Assassins are OP. Not a single poster in your thread has agreed with you. Not. A. Single. One. Get it? You're wrong. Sorry, your opinion is incorrect, you are entitled to continue having it but please stop wasting our time by yelling it at us and insulting us when we disagree.

 

Thanks.

 

Sincerely,

 

The Entire SWTOR Community.

It has been proven beyond a shred of doubt that Shadow Tanks can consistently score 600/100/100 on warzones if they bother trying, the nerf bat will have to come soon, if these game ever gets into it's competitive legs. more and more people will start complaining about this imbalance.

I just find it very amusing he is complaining so hard about shadow tanks.

personally i stopped playing mine because i thought it was boring, and honestly his damage and defense is nothing near what you want to claim in your posts.

it certainly was not "best in game" like you are trying to claim.

It has been proven beyond a shred of doubt that Shadow Tanks can consistently score 600/100/100 on warzones if they bother trying, the nerf bat will have to come soon, if these game ever gets into it's competitive legs. more and more people will start complaining about this imbalance.

Mercs and sorcs can do 1 million just pressing one button, tracer missile/ lightning.

I'm not reading this whole thread. I HOPE someone said this already.

Kinetic Ward/Dark Ward are WORTHLESS IN PVP.

OP is bad. The end.

It has been proven beyond a shred of doubt that Shadow Tanks can consistently score 600/100/100 on warzones if they bother trying, the nerf bat will have to come soon, if these game ever gets into it's competitive legs. more and more people will start complaining about this imbalance.

Link me to a single, uncut video of a warzone (no end scoreboards or cherry picked cuts, a full 15 minute wz) from a Tank-spec assassin who plays the entire 15 minutes in Tank spec and ends with 600k / 100k / 100k. Go ahead, find me one.

I have to admit, i have to give OP props for his dedication to this joke.

Either he is a full blown potato, or an extremely dedicated troll

Epic thread,

Loving all the well argumented counters by Shadows. Who are then countered by saying: That is a Lie.. or... Your downplaying your skills.

i do enjoy how we went from 300-100-100 to 600-100-100

Kinetic ward spammable every 12 sec with 8 wards unlikely to be struck off in normal pvp situations. one of the highest force mitigation of any class. 3 additional proc defensive abilities including a permanent heal ability.

 

Not only that, their spamming of telekinetic throws/Lightnings have the ability to heal themselves, and slowing down their foes, adding to insane survivability along with massive dps and with Harnessed shadow up, it cannot be interrupted(another overpowered feature to a completely overpowered ability). They can stealth when needed, and can sprint when needed and kite when needed adding to survivability and an element of surprise. Jedi Shadows seems to be totally imbalanced, especially in PVP and I invite anyone of you who denies this to offer up a good counter to my arguments. Anyone who agrees please chime in as well. Jedi Shadow has too many useful utilities for PVP including with PULL, they have just about everything to counter everything on top of being the best pure tank in the game and second best self healer after healer classes, at least where PVP is concerned. Something seems to be horribly off with this picture.

 

A Jedi Shadow being able to out-tank, outrun, out stealth, out dps, out kite and able to out CCs and out self heals, on an above average level in the game. There's just seem to be no buffs that could bring any classes on par with a Shadow specced for PVP without breaking the game mechanics so the only option out it seems is to nerf Shadows -

 

A class that will be able to consistently get 300K+ dmg, and 100K+ healing in warzone matches along with being able to sprint stealth, pull, and tank like a madman, and score 55-0 in kills ratio very often, something is very very wrong with the balance here- guys - discuss with civility, any blatant fanboyism post or trolling, or off topic post will be reported.

 

For more reference of how overpowered a Shadow/Assassin could be in PVP, please visit this thread:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=336999

I'll try to address each point as a tank shadow who used to play mostly in tank gear but now uses mostly DPS gear in tank specs.

1. Kinetic Ward is a great tool but its only useful against white attacks. Thus snipers in Marksman/Gunslingers in sharpshooter. Several Guardian/Marauder attacks, etc. I have few issues with a tank spec being able to survive a little bit better against physical attacks. We have 10% less damage reduction overall to compensate, but a little better defense. Solution is to buff the classes that use mainly white attacks and to allow tank stats to work at half-strength against tech/force attacks.

2. I agree but the solution is to make it so that a tank spec actually wants to wear tank gear, and make it worth sacrificing DPS. As it stands, tank gear offers nothing for us in PvP other than greater protection vs white attacks. It should be that tank spec shouldn't function properly unless you're in tank gear, but sadly that's not the case. The CC thing I'm alright with, I like a control spec, I just don't feel we should get great survivability and damage too. Survivability and being a CC control spec is enough. In tank gear I would have to be up an entire long game in voidstar to do decent damage(And usually don't break 300k), and I'm fine with that.

3. For self healing, the uninterruptible lightning/TK Throw for 12% self healing is very good, yes, its meant to make up for our lesser DR than a Vanguard or Juggernaut. But, people see uninterruptible and panic thinking OMG OP. All you need to do to counter it is a regular CC. I've fought a lot of 1 v 1's versus bad tank shadows and tank assassins who don't realize their own weaknesses and don't seem to know you can/should do this. Interrupt enough with stuns, knockdowns, knockbacks, pulls, and you'll win.

4. I'm going to tell you all the secret to killing tank shadows/assassins. The secret we don't want any of you to know. My alt is a sharpshooter gunslinger who hit 50 a few weeks back, and I had the same problems that all of you do killing one, and then I realized something. They go down like a squishy Sorceror/Sage if your team has the wherewithal to stack armor debuffs. Flourish shot/grav round, and sunder armor. Put it on them early. Not as great a solution as balancing all the classes, but its something that can tide you all over.

In the end, I propose the following changes:

1. Make tank gear a requirement for Kinetic Combat/Darkness to work properly.

2. Buff Juggernauts/Guardians rage/focus generation in tank spec(Not sure if Vanguards/Powertechs need too many buffs, tbh they're in a better place than we are in many cases.)

3. Buff classes/specs that use primarily white attacks. Have tank stats have half effect against force/tech attacks(For example, 27% defense now gives 13.5 tech/force deflection. 40% shield chance gives 20% shield chance. 40% shield absorption gives 20% shield absorption). Give those classes with white attacks higher base accuracy that doesn't require them to use as much in gear, and higher armor penetration on more of their attacks.

4. Buff Deception/Infiltration survivability slightly(Up to just below Marauders/Sentinels, Below due to being able to stealth) so that it isn't tempting to be a tank spec if you want to deal damage. Do the same with Operatives/Scoundrels/Gunslingers/Snipers while you're at it. They're all far too squishy, which makes tank shadows/assassins seem too 'flavor of the month'.

5. Last but not least, since many complaints come from Huttball, make it so this list of abilities do not work or cannot be used by the ball carrier: Force Charge/Leap/Storm/Zealous Leap. Intercede/Guardian Leap, Force Speed, Rescue. If you're stealthed, then after unstealthing you should have a 5-10 second debuff that prevents you from holding the ball. That should promote teamwork in passing rather than 'one man wonders' being able to run the ball to the endzone with limited aid.

OP is so clueless it hurts...

The part about KW being op in PvP is just hilarious.

It so funny that all sins came on and be against bahugboto ,which in case he is only one in this posts who actually know the gam.

Nerf will come soon /see ya soon .

IF a good /pro sin was in these posts he should say hey bahugboto 100%chance mitigation to force is op when it is at 45 sec cooldown and it should be at 3 min cd so i cant spam it.What bahugboto TRYIN TO SAY THIS WHOLE DAMN THREAD IS THAT SINS HAVE WAY TOO MUCH I WIN BUTTONS BUT ALL U SELFISH LOW BRAIN DAMAGED PLAYERS cant even even figure it out even with 20 post QQ.

BTW sniper here BY far THE worst class in this game current state.

IF a good /pro sin was in these posts he should say hey bahugboto 100%chance mitigation to force is op when it is at 45 sec cooldown and it should be at 3 min cd so i cant spam it.What bahugboto TRYIN TO SAY THIS WHOLE DAMN THREAD IS THAT SINS HAVE WAY TOO MUCH I WIN BUTTONS BUT ALL U SELFISH LOW BRAIN DAMAGED PLAYERS cant even even figure it out even with 20 post QQ.

 

 

 

BTW sniper here BY far THE worst class in this game current state.

Sorry but you're wrong. That's the whole reason as to why our mitigation is 10% lower than Vanguards or Juggernauts, because we can make up for it with limited self-healing, and some immunity to force/tech.

I wouldn't mind them doing away with the 2 second extension we get, but you can't just take away everything that makes the class unique, and balanced against the other tanks. A good Vanguard/Powertech is in a better place than a Tank Assassin or Shadow is by far tanking and damage wise. The only reason as to why some people do obscene damage is due to a design flaw for PvP that makes it more desirable to wear DPS gear over tank gear. This should not be.

Again, buff Juggernauts/Guardians. Make it so all three tank specs are required to wear decent tank gear for their tanking specs to work correctly. Make it so tank stats are worth a damn and function at half strength to cripple Snipers/Gunslingers less, but do mitigate some damage from classes who rely on 'special' damage, like Commandos/Mercenaries, and Sorcerors/Sages.

Original Poster obviously has biased and hates them for some reason or another.

This isn't a thread based on facts or video footage of a class being overpowered it's one guy whining about a class he doesn't like.

never once have I seen a shadow heal for 100k, he's over exaggerating things so his complaints will sound like a class is broken but it isn't.

you remind me of that rping guy at the guild summit earlier today who suggested this game needs

an "auto facing" button so people can't run circles around him.

nothing against you rping guy, but you win carebear of the month award.