Greetings and salutations members of the Ebon Hawk community,

For those who may not know me, my character in-game is Râlen. I am a level 55 Jedi Guardian and I am also the GM of Republic. Generally speaking I don't typically follow threads or post on MMO forums, as they tend to be counterproductive, filled with drama, trolling, flaming, etc. However, in light of recent events, my hand has been forced and I come forward to all of you with some questions about our aging server.

With SWTOR quickly approaching it's second year anniversary, I have some concerns about what kind of community we are posing for our server. I have personally been witnessing an increased spike in hate, drama, and overall misconduct in warzones as of late. This drama and hatred is going so far as to personally attack individuals in the most heinous and despicable of ways making them question whether they should even keep subscribing to SWTOR or not.

Now I know trash talking and drama in PvP is unavoidable. I have played MMORPGs for a very long time and it's always the same vicious cycle with many in the PvP community. That being said, I think we can improve the conduct of our server and I believe this is a necessity not only for our server's health, but the longevity of SWTOR. With that being said I'd like to open a dialogue with anyone and everyone in The Ebon Hawk Community.

Reporting these offenders can only go so far and it is the responsibility of the members of The Ebon Hawk community to stand up and uphold proper and decent conduct in PvP. I'd like to hear solutions from everybody about this growing issue. Communication and feedback is imperative for any community to improve and flourish. I fear if we continue to allow current trends to progress as they are, we will inevitably see our server continue to die even more than it already has.

Above all else, please be honest and truthful in your posts. I want to do everything in my power to make this game as friendly and as fun for everybody as possible. Otherwise, why are we even subscribed to this game if we are miserable playing it? That's not fun for you. That's not fun for me. It needs to be resolved. Lets come together as a server and community and make the kind of server everybody on The Ebon Hawk deserves.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to your responses.

All the best,

Ralen

Imperator of Republic

Hi

Relatively new to Ebon Hawk and the game in general, so I don't really have any other servers to compare with. But from another MMO perspective I feel that the community is quite friendly and mature, bar the a few peeps, but you have those few peeps in pretty much every game.

Maybe it's because I only have the WoW PvP community to compare to, but on there most Battlegrounds had at least one abusive player, while here it seems to be a 1 in 20 or something along those lines sort of thing. And that's not even talking about PvP guild hate on the forums, lots of passive aggression and rage-whispers from players that you killed, some of which were just nasty.

I've befriended quite a few people in Warzones, and Project Mayhem/Atrocíty were all really friendly and tought me the ropes despite the "merciless PvP guild" reputation that they seem to have. Actually all the PvP guilds I've come across, at least on the Empire side struck me as alright people.

And out of all the WZs played, I only once actually got someone throwing e-rage at me and calling me bad (he couldn't kill me lol), though that might be because I'm not good enough to draw attention. Even when we run premades we mostly get whispers were people point out that they appreciated playing against us, which would be most unlikely on WoW.

So I don't think things are so grim, though I have no idea how things are on the Republic side.

Hi

 

Relatively new to Ebon Hawk and the game in general, so I don't really have any other servers to compare with. But from another MMO perspective I feel that the community is quite friendly and mature, bar the a few peeps, but you have those few peeps in pretty much every game.

 

Maybe it's because I only have the WoW PvP community to compare to, but on there most Battlegrounds had at least one abusive player, while here it seems to be a 1 in 20 or something along those lines sort of thing. And that's not even talking about PvP guild hate on the forums, lots of passive aggression and rage-whispers from players that you killed, some of which were just nasty.

 

I've befriended quite a few people in Warzones, and Project Mayhem/Atrocíty were all really friendly and tought me the ropes despite the "merciless PvP guild" reputation that they seem to have. Actually all the PvP guilds I've come across, at least on the Empire side struck me as alright people.

 

And out of all the WZs played, I only once actually got someone throwing e-rage at me and calling me bad (he couldn't kill me lol), though that might be because I'm not good enough to draw attention. Even when we run premades we mostly get whispers were people point out that they appreciated playing against us, which would be most unlikely on WoW.

 

So I don't think things are so grim, though I have no idea how things are on the Republic side.

Thank you for replying Zhayo. I'm happy to see you've had a much more positive experience in regards to your PvP. You make a valid point, in which I'd like to iterate on, that perception plays a large role in regards to how individuals view other groups.

I can only speak for my faction, but my impression is that premades have almost become a taboo in PvP at this point. People see particular guild tags on the other side and it results in them either leaving the match, verbally abusing that group, or leading to other negative behaviors.

I've certainly seen others compliment players in PvP before, but far more often it is outweighed by the hate and criticisms and excuses. It perhaps may just be a faction issue as you suggested, however I'd certainly like to try and rectify this mentality and improve PvP for all.

One idea an individual suggested was to have a workshop of sorts improving those who are interested in PvP who may not have a guild or group. Teaching players how to play objectives, use CCs, understanding their class, etc. I'd be more than happy to make an effort to help those that are interested in improving their skills and to make PvP more competitive, fair, and fun for all.

Double Standard much? Vodka, you come on here raging just like you do in war zones. Good-sized guilds have been running pre-mades since the game has been out and even before this game was even thought of. To come on here and spew your hatred because a guild is doing something together is pretty pathetic. The post by Ralen is meant for an adult discussion not intending to cause any drama, yet, to prevent future drama, we are trying to have a healthy discussion.

We understand that people who solo-queue to try to get their dailies done or simply just attempt to enjoy PVP get very upset when they run into larger groups who are all in some form of voice chat together. With that said, are larger guilds not supposed to do anything together? Should we mandate that only two people can queue together? No. As we've found, it doesn't matter if it is 2, 4, 6, or 8, there has been an increased number of personal attacks and it has gotten out of hand. There has been plenty of people who have started off solo playing MMOs only to soon find out, this is not Mario Kart. They realize to accomplish a MMO to its fullest they pretty much have to seek out people to group with. This is why guilds are so important in MMOs. A true MMO is not meant to be a solo experience. PVP and PVE are somewhat the same. If you want to get a truly consistent experience out of a so-called raid, do you not try to find a group? And once you have found said group that you enjoy playing with, do you not keep growing that experience with these players? Of course you do. So why should PVP be any different?

So, in the end, my advice to people who are frustrated on soloing stuff only to find the end result disappointing, seek out a guild to join or, if you are in a guild and it is small, make an effort to grow it a little bit more. In the meantime, everybody in Republic is approachable and willing at any time to listen to concerns and input as long as it is not rude or insulting.

I would like to thank Ralen for taking the time out to reach out to the Ebon Hawk community.

I never said dont run with your guild or the ppl you enjoy playing with. But if your goal is to stomp pugs and then come to the forums and be like "oh i care about the community" that is some COMPLETE BS!!!!.

If you want to achieve something as a 8 man unit, RUN RANKED! there is a reason why you cant queue with 8 ppl for regular wz as an entire unit, also where does the improvement come into play? You are not getting better when u stomp pugs over voice with 7 of ur buddies.

RUN RANKED RUN RANKED RUN RANKED OR ****.

with that being said props to ALL the guilds that have queued, in the past, and recently.

The next patch will do away with the double premade problem. (Obviously, <Republic> has generated a ton of animosity on the server because of the way they orchestrate their double premades. Will they still be able to run double premades in 2.4: yes. Will it matter: far less.)

 

PvP attracts more of some personality types than it does others. We have a lot of bullies who PvP or used to PvP. I'm not talking about skilled players, I'm talking about that jerk who sits in your teamspeak and crows about how he "totally ganked that guy!" and how much everyone else sucks. Dizeren (yay!) versus Braddock (boo!).

 

That said, I don't see nearly as much trashtalking or bragging or generally being terrible as I used to. The server seems happy and quiet. Without any strong PvP guilds, everything seems relatively positive.

 

Ralen: Do you have some specific examples of bad behavior that you wanted to bring up? From my perspective the huge majority of the worst offenders are gone. There are some budding terrible people, but they're marginal voices.

Hello and thank you for your response Satedbuffalo. In regards to answering your question, you are absolutely right that many of the troublemakers left the server once Paid Server Transfers went live. That being said, there are still plenty of troublemakers around, even if they aren't quite as obvious and concentrated as they used to be on the server.

I will not mention any names or guilds as making references to particular groups is against forum rules. What I will say is that an individual on the server has been impersonating players, making toons with their names, and then verbally abusing different guilds and individuals with the intent of stirring drama for the player and their guild.

The tension in PvP has gone far beyond just common insults or accusations of cheating. We have individuals trying to steal player's identities and cause drama and harm to the individual. I find this kind of behavior to be completely unacceptable and I would hope many would agree with me in this regard.

The reason I created this thread was to bring notice and attention to this issue lest the situation continues to escalate and affect others. I understand PvP can be a frustrating experience, but trying to ruin another person's day and harass them is wrong and crossing the line.

Lets work together to try to improve our community. As Satedbuffalo pointed out, a lot of the troublemakers left. Lets keep things civil and make The Ebon Hawk the kind of server players would want to transfer to, not run from.

If you're talking about the incident I think you're talking about, the victim in that case is also a member of our guild and a friend.

So, yeah, we were not pleased. If you ever figure out who that was, let's form an unruly mob together, eh?

Certainly if any individual is affected by harassment by others or not, it is, in my opinion, the responsibility of all those in the community to act and uphold The Ebon Hawk's integrity. Bystanders are just as bad as the culprits who commit heinous acts against those who do not deserve it. If we are serious and truly want to clean up the ridiculousness happening on our server, we need to be diligent and proactive in diffusing situations.

Even those who just take the time to right click a player's portrait and report them for harassment will go a long way in improving player behavior in warzones and beyond. Change like this, however, will not come easily unless everybody makes an effort to help. BioWare can only do so much to make people play nice. It's up to us to take care of our own and make The Ebon Hawk a community worth being a part of.

Thanks for the post Ralen and to all others that contributed thus far. I've played quite a bit of PVP and I've seen the best of it and the worst of it. I see a lot of the problems with PVP as a BW/EA issue. I really feel that cross-server PVP is something that should have been implemented long ago. Even beyond winning and losing it's no fun playing against the same team over and over again and this is often the case (at least pre-50) that I experience on a daily basis weekends included. Level 50 PVP also has a nasty rep among those that I've talked to due to nothing but highly skilled (and well geared) players and premades stomping over anyone or any group that tries to get in on the action. This isn't a slight against those that are - they've worked hard to be as good as they are - but from what I've witnessed and experienced there exists a barrier to entry that the more casual players find too difficult to cross which results in a more elitist and smaller playing field.

As to the question of how to deal with hotheads it's tough. Being active and reporting a player(s) for harassment when they stoop to name calling is a good first step. If enough people do it then BW/EA will do something about it. I also like your idea of teaching people how to PVP basics or the finer points. Maybe if you made a post asking who would be interested on this within the server forum would work?

Still, I don't think there is much that can be done beyond reporting them for harassment. Maybe sending a message to their guild leader might work (at least if they're part of a large and respected guild) may result in that person being a more level headed player. In the end, people will be people. Their emotions will run high (esp. in PVP) and things wil be said (it's not right but it's not going to change either). A part of it is to just ignore it. Now if someone's stalking you or acting with the sole purpose to make other player's lives miserable then that is harassment and I'm pretty sure EA/BW will have something to say to the offending player. Report them. And send an email to EA/BW as well through whatever channels they have in regards to player harassment.

See you on the battlefield!

Oh really? the state of the ebon hawk lets see. Ralen first of all you only run in premades and the last time you haven't you were hiding behind ur spawn point on hypergate because u were getting stomped, and provided no support for those "dear Ebon Hawk Members of the community" that you seem to be oh so caring about. You run 8-man premades in regular warzones and NEVER queue ranked. The only reason why <Project Mayhem> now known as <Atrocity> runs double premade is to snipe <Republic> because wins should never come that easy. and they don't and i PROMISE YOU they never will so long as we are around. We will ALWAYS snipe you so long as you run double premades in regular warzones, and i tell you this EH Community the only time PM or Atrocity runs double premades is to snipe the bully guilds that never want tot queue ranked where the real competition is because all they want is easy wins. and we will ALWAYS be a thorn in your side, and quite honestely when i was online you have never beaten us, 8v8, not once. oh and just to clarify this is Te'quila/ Vod'ka.

Somewhere in here, there's a little bit of truth. Over the past few weeks when groups super queue I've asked several times if anyone wanted to do a 4 v 4 in outlaw's den and I've always gotten the same answers back. "Oh we're about to call it a night or not tonight some other time perhaps, and then an hr later you see the same people who claimed they were too tired superqueuing. I solo queue 90% of the time and I'll be the first to admit I'll leave if my team is stubbornly terrible. I'll even at times out of frustration insult a few people, especially the ones in full conquerer gear with valor 60 and up. They should know better by the time they hit 55. If they're freshly minted 55s I won't be as hard on them but they too should know what their job is in a team environment.

I would like to start out by saying the trolling that occurred was rather weak, and should never have been given any thought what so ever. Braddock I doubt would ever do anything like that, at least in the way it came across, and i don't think Braddock is even in Scrub Squad anymore.

 

It is a shame Heather-Blade was caught in the middle of this, anyone who knows anything about her would know she would never do anything like that, and she treats everyone with respect and dignity. What is awful is she was targeted not because of herself, but her association with a PVP guild that does some of the weakest and slimiest garbage on the server. I mean months of half a full premade quitting wz's in which there other half was not lucky enough to get the queue, and even when they get there team and half to go against good pug from Nemisis, Atrocity, etc. they quit instead of taking the loss. Then when they get their team in against some weak pugs they want to talk trash....classy!

 

So <Republic> has spent months being jerks and shocker someone trolls them, and it's a big deal? That's like making a big deal out of Jenna Jameson taking one.....I digress. The fact the you even post this is proof your ego has made you delusional...if you screw with people they screw back, it happens. You come out with the "State of the Ebon Hawk"...like this is some travesty...get of it man, it's best you don't post often because you just don't get it. The victim here is Heather as she is being trolled cause she is friends with everyone, even DB's like you.

I don't have a problem with premades and super queues. My problem is when a group of double premades go up against 3 good players and 5 beginners and start trolling on how awesome they are. There was one Ancient Hypergate where we were up against the regulators and one of the marauders was trolling talking about one of our teammates should have stayed tank because he was destroying us. And I said to him if we had 1 decent DPS like chutholtz(sp?) on our team instead of yours, the outcome would be completely different. They won that wz but not by the kind of margin that warranted that trash talk. The guy went on to say he was just as good as chutholtz and that the result would end up being the same. Give me 4 of Atrocity's Best PVP'ers with 3 of the best from Chem X and I guarantee we will destroy any 8 man group in regular WZs. But you won't see us talking trash that we're so awesome because we ran a double premade against a bunch of scrubs.

Thanks for the post Ralen and to all others that contributed thus far. I've played quite a bit of PVP and I've seen the best of it and the worst of it. I see a lot of the problems with PVP as a BW/EA issue. I really feel that cross-server PVP is something that should have been implemented long ago. Even beyond winning and losing it's no fun playing against the same team over and over again and this is often the case (at least pre-50) that I experience on a daily basis weekends included. Level 50 PVP also has a nasty rep among those that I've talked to due to nothing but highly skilled (and well geared) players and premades stomping over anyone or any group that tries to get in on the action. This isn't a slight against those that are - they've worked hard to be as good as they are - but from what I've witnessed and experienced there exists a barrier to entry that the more casual players find too difficult to cross which results in a more elitist and smaller playing field.

 

As to the question of how to deal with hotheads it's tough. Being active and reporting a player(s) for harassment when they stoop to name calling is a good first step. If enough people do it then BW/EA will do something about it. I also like your idea of teaching people how to PVP basics or the finer points. Maybe if you made a post asking who would be interested on this within the server forum would work?

 

Still, I don't think there is much that can be done beyond reporting them for harassment. Maybe sending a message to their guild leader might work (at least if they're part of a large and respected guild) may result in that person being a more level headed player. In the end, people will be people. Their emotions will run high (esp. in PVP) and things wil be said (it's not right but it's not going to change either). A part of it is to just ignore it. Now if someone's stalking you or acting with the sole purpose to make other player's lives miserable then that is harassment and I'm pretty sure EA/BW will have something to say to the offending player. Report them. And send an email to EA/BW as well through whatever channels they have in regards to player harassment.

 

See you on the battlefield!

Hello and thank you for posting Scionfall. I definitely do agree that a lot of these issues have been allowed to mature due to negligence on BioWare's part. While I believe cross server queues could bring more variety to the table, it may end up just escalating tensions as the pool of premades and PvP guilds would likely just increase.

Perhaps a potential solution to deal with the disparity between newcomers and veterans is to create separate queues based on valor or experience. 8v8 ranked warzones are hard to coordinate currently as very few guilds actually meet the requirements to queue up. 4v4 Arenas will help as they will be more accessible, but BioWare could do more to help those who aren't experience or geared for PvP.

In regards to dealing with bad behavior, you are right in that there is only so much we can do. Members of the community just need to be attentive in cleaning up bad behavior and trying to set an example for all to follow. If such players did happen to be associated with particular guilds, addressing the guild leader could help to spur action.

If there is enough interest amongst the community to create a workshop of sorts to help players improve at their classes in PvP, I'd be more than happy to organize it. Whatever leads to better PvP and more fun for others should be the goal for everyone. The health, stability, and the success of The Ebon Hawk as a server should be an important priority for all who reside here.

I personally am a nobody on the server, but i pvp alot on many different toons. I have been on both sides of the "super-que" problem, and i am not sure why people get so upset about it. Sure it sucks to play a match, when you are solo, against 8 people in voice chat, but as has been stated it is hardly a new thing. Been happening in this game, and others for years. It might not be a "learning" experience, but just something that happens.

 

That being said, it is the reason why people dislike guilds like Republic and Guerilla and such when they were around. No one wants to get stomped, it happens, but no one wants it to. As has been said i think 2.4 will fix some of this, but adding arenas that will be 4 on 4, as well as f2p getting unlimited ques.

 

When you are "on top" people will always try to find ways to hurt you outside of matches, since they can not do it in matches. Even just wearing a guild tag of a servers top tier pvp guilds, or guilds that pvp alot, even if you do not pvp yourself will get you some flak alot of the time. Best you can hope to do is report it, but you can not control what others do, as much as we wish we could sometimes. The problem is not the community it's self but those few people who just dont take loss well. And you can not fix them. Just report them.

 

 

-Shardz

Hello and thanks for posting Shardz. You make quite a few valid points and anyone who has played an MMO knows successful guilds are often targeted by players that resent them. I am sure this is likely part of the problem here having a situation where well-coordinated guilds are placed against PUGs and newcomers.

While a certain level of criticism should likely be expected, people definitely need to be held accountable for their actions. Especially when such attacks are taken beyond just simple insults, you are right in the fact reporting is something people should take larger advantage of.

I find it unfortunate that this is even an issue that really even needs discussing honestly. People should have manners and basic courtesy, regardless if it is in person or over a video game. Enough with the hatred, lies, and inappropriate conduct in warzones. It only makes those that do it look more foolish and possibly receiving a warning or being banned by BioWare.

Hello and thank you for posting Scionfall. I definitely do agree that a lot of these issues have been allowed to mature due to negligence on BioWare's part. While I believe cross server queues could bring more variety to the table, it may end up just escalating tensions as the pool of premades and PvP guilds would likely just increase.

And this is the argument I often hear against such action. But to make my case and maybe it's because it's nearly 1am on Ebon Hawk on a Thursday night but I literally just played 3 PVP matches in a row where I got either an instant pop or within a minute and all three times we were up against the same team (at least 3 of yours were on the other side). I've already stated that I'm fine with the pre-mades - it's the nature of the game. But there's no variety and I see this during all hours - the same couple of teams on each side are constantly battling against each other. I enjoy PVP and so I continue to play but it can get frustrating when you know that all you're doing is banging your head against a brick wall that is a superior opposing team.

Perhaps a potential solution to deal with the disparity between newcomers and veterans is to create separate queues based on valor or experience. 8v8 ranked warzones are hard to coordinate currently as very few guilds actually meet the requirements to queue up. 4v4 Arenas will help as they will be more accessible, but BioWare could do more to help those who aren't experience or geared for PvP.

I really like this idea. I would almost create a separate leveling system just for PVP. Valor doesn't really do it for me because you get it just for showing up and it's independent of ability at the game which is kinda the same thing as Experience (assuming you're referring to one's level like you and I are level 55). Creating a separate system where you gain experience only if you win would work much better imo. It has its flaws to be sure but just because I'm valor 60 doesn't make me an expert at PVP in any sense.

And this is the argument I often hear against such action. But to make my case and maybe it's because it's nearly 1am on Ebon Hawk on a Thursday night but I literally just played 3 PVP matches in a row where I got either an instant pop or within a minute and all three times we were up against the same team (at least 3 of yours were on the other side). I've already stated that I'm fine with the pre-mades - it's the nature of the game. But there's no variety and I see this during all hours - the same couple of teams on each side are constantly battling against each other. I enjoy PVP and so I continue to play but it can get frustrating when you know that all you're doing is banging your head against a brick wall that is a superior opposing team.

 

 

 

I really like this idea. I would almost create a separate leveling system just for PVP. Valor doesn't really do it for me because you get it just for showing up and it's independent of ability at the game which is kinda the same thing as Experience (assuming you're referring to one's level like you and I are level 55). Creating a separate system where you gain experience only if you win would work much better imo. It has its flaws to be sure but just because I'm valor 60 doesn't make me an expert at PVP in any sense.

Oh no don't get me wrong, I definitely see exactly what you are saying. The more variety there is the better off we would be. I think it would allow for more challenges for those who are geared and run premades and perhaps give relief to those who just solo queue. It would come down to really how BioWare would execute the cross server queue and what servers would be tied to where, etc.

An issue I feel that has plagued MMORPGs for a very long time is there is really no tutorial or training session to compete in PvP. My first MMORPG was Star Wars Galaxies and it took me years to fully master the game and be able to compete at a competitive level in PvP. SWTOR is certainly less forgiving, but there still really is no guidance in regards to improving.

Valor certainly isn't any indication of skill. Perhaps a more intricate, smart queue system could be implemented where players are placed against others of similar win/loss ratios. For those who haven't PvPed that much at all, they'd be placed against other newcomers to help level the playing field. It's fine that BioWare wants to try and make PvP more casual-friendly and accessible for players. However, they should also as a courtesy prevent those same individuals from getting crushed from those who have been PvPing for years.

One aspect I think that could largely rectify many problems with SWTOR would be a revival of world PvP. A fundamental and basic PvP system that most MMOs offer is really lacking in this game. Even with how buggy Ilum was at launch, it could really help ease the learning curve of participating in PvP.

Here is a idea...

We have pretty good amount of guilds on Rep and Imp side. I say leaders of these guilds (small or big) step up and post your guilds name and your in game name saying you are the GM. This way leaders of these guilds can start taking responsibility if they have anyone with their guild tag running around causing drama.

Example if a toon called Ujelly'much is running around with a guild tag bad mouthing others or other guilds then everyone has a list of Guild Masters to pick from. Take a screen shot of this player and their guild tag. Find that Guild Master on this list and send a "NICE" tell reporting Ujelly'much. Let the Guild Masters handle within their own guild (drama control). With that said I look at it this way. There will be people who form guilds because they think its cool and only put people in that guild whose soul purpose is to "Troll" and cause "Drama". But I am talking about respectable guilds who want to try and grow a community and (enjoy the game to it's fullest). Last thing a Guild Master of these guilds want is someone running around with their guild tag being horrible to others.

Of course there will be people making level 1 alts just to start drama. Just keep reporting these players like it has been suggested (aka open a ticket for harassment)

Lets work together to try to improve our community. As Satedbuffalo pointed out, a lot of the troublemakers left. Lets keep things civil and make The Ebon Hawk the kind of server players would want to transfer to, not run from.

As an outsider, I found this line to be worth something to comment on;

I read through this thread and this is exactly the mentality I was looking for in my search. I posted a few days ago concerning PvP here and received some messages and PMs as well. You all seem to have a great community here compared to other servers. Even the one I am on, I would not dare label as ideal.

Sure POT5 has some good PvP but I believe that not all "best pvp action" resides strictly on a PvP only server. I liked your ideas of a workshop and just community building in general. I am not from this server nor do I play on it but have been curious about xfering a toon or two over if not just rolling a toon here to play and threads like this are a good sign for someone like me.

Even if there is some "trolling" going on here, it's modest at best in comparison to some of the stuff I've read before from my server and have enjoyed reading through the responses here. Good luck to you all as a community and perhaps I'll end up seeing you all in game soon. Take care!

The problem with a workshop is that it'd largely be preaching to the choir. How many of those 'dreadful pugs' do you suppose visit the official forums? Unofficial forums? Have well connected acquaintances who will clue them in?

Yeah. None of the above is a safe assumption. So that means we'd have to advertise in game, but how many people do you know that have general and/or PvP chat off? So to maximize attendance, we'd have to spam warzone ops chat, which I'm suuuure will earn us lots of friends. xD

Doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't be worth it. Many of those who'd show are probably of that middle tier variety who are looking for what gives people that bit of extra edge that grants the illusion of invincibility. (Think Mario Kart star item? lulz) But since that sort of workshop would be touching on more advanced techniques, it'd become something completely different from what you're proposing.

Now, to be honest, I think the problem with PvPers these days isn't the MMO, or the 'hardcore' or 'dedicated' PvPers. It's the fresh-faced players of the new generation who don't have the remotest clue what being 'thick skinned' means. Most of our problems wouldn't happen or even be problems if we all grew a pair and donned some thornmail (just search youtube for thornmail, you'll find good stuff).

As a final note, I'm not encouraging or endorsing legitimate harassment cases. They happen, it's bad, and as I understand it, one happened fairly recently. But other problems like the QQ and general ************ wouldn't be an issue if humans stopped breeding these wussy, pansy-assed "I'm a special snowflake!" scrubs.

Here is a idea...

 

We have pretty good amount of guilds on Rep and Imp side. I say leaders of these guilds (small or big) step up and post your guilds name and your in game name saying you are the GM. This way leaders of these guilds can start taking responsibility if they have anyone with their guild tag running around causing drama.

 

Example if a toon called Ujelly'much is running around with a guild tag bad mouthing others or other guilds then everyone has a list of Guild Masters to pick from. Take a screen shot of this player and their guild tag. Find that Guild Master on this list and send a "NICE" tell reporting Ujelly'much. Let the Guild Masters handle within their own guild (drama control). With that said I look at it this way. There will be people who form guilds because they think its cool and only put people in that guild whose soul purpose is to "Troll" and cause "Drama". But I am talking about respectable guilds who want to try and grow a community and (enjoy the game to it's fullest). Last thing a Guild Master of these guilds want is someone running around with their guild tag being horrible to others.

 

Of course there will be people making level 1 alts just to start drama. Just keep reporting these players like it has been suggested (aka open a ticket for harassment)

This is a great idea and I'd just like to reiterate that guild leaders taking responsibility of their guild members would go a long way to improving conduct of warzones. Obviously not everybody is in a large or well-known guild. But certainly this would at least keep those players that are in larger and more wide-spread guilds in check. This is something I believe everybody should heavily consider.

Râlen while you say you want to improve the community and prevent it from "dying" or deteriorating any further, that should include the Rated or Ranked community, and along with that I'm personally of the opinion that you if claim you are a PvP guild, your sights should be set on running and playing Ranked Warzones.

I have some really bad news for you...

...

Hey there Lamech and thanks for posting. You bring up a lot of valid points for the established guilds who definitely run one or more premades. Especially with the implementation of the Free To Play model, the quality of players in warzones has steadily decreased. I don't necessarily blame newcomers for this either, but more so a lack of guidance and communication on BioWare's part. Veteran players shouldn't have to be punished playing with inexperienced players who don't understand the ropes of the game and newcomers shouldn't have to be punished going against well-trained and properly geared veterans.

I do believe the implementation of 4v4 Arenas will help alleviate this issue, but it will still be a persisting problem nonetheless. I'm glad you agree and support the idea of this workshop. I truly do believe it would be conducive towards improving PvP performance from players and improving the competition. Clearly as some have suggested not everybody would likely participate, but it would surely help the situation. I agree that this isn't something that could be organized by one of the top PvP guilds however. If anything, I'd envision a coalition from a variety of parties coming together to help make this a reality in order for it to be successful.

As far as the fan club is concerned, I really don't have any knowledge in regards to what its purpose or intent is. At this point I'm more interested in just cutting down on drama, cleaning up the server, and trying to improve the PvP experience for all parties concerned. It's not fun for anybody when friends start to get hurt and feel forced to leave the game because of harassment and other forms of inappropriate behavior in the game.

*takes away Nomaad's popcorn* Now now, let's keep this civil.

In regards to your workshop idea: If you do manage to get enough people interested to make it a reality I would gladly offer assistance to those wanting to learn about node defense/stealing. Although I'm sure there are those more qualified than me to fulfill that role as well.

Wow... this thread has more branches than a fir tree.

1. The drama involving a certain troll causing issues between guilds... Anywhere there is anonymity on the internet you are going to have trolling like this. Heather is a very sweet person and I wouldn't wish her any grief personally, but I'm quite certain her reaction and the drama that it caused was more than the troll could have dreamed of. That situation had NOTHING to do with the PVP situation on this server and everything to do with someone wanting to illicit this type of response from someone who has been involved in this sort of drama before.

2. Super queue's.... I've probably spent 20 hours in queue for rated and only actually played a couple of rated games. I don't believe I can say the same for everyone on this server that has super queue'd. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it. I have no problem with people super queue'ing, but if you are running 8 in regulars, then you should really queue yourself for rated as well... Regardless of 2.4 coming out, there are still teams currently waiting in queue on Mon/Wed nights and getting no pops.

3. PVP trash-talk... Honestly, the only time I ever rage in PVP is out of frustration and I apologize right now to anyone I've ever badmouthed or offended in any WZ I've run on any of my toons. In general I take everyone's BS in WZ's with a grain of salt. Remember how good you think you are... well the guy on the other side that you just destroyed feels he's just as good and he just got smashed. There is a lot of ego in PVP, and taking things personally isn't going to help anything. When I see threads like this where people are complaining about trash talking in WZ's it just makes me think that people are too weak minded for this game. There is no reason to respond and if it's bad enough put the other players on ignore. By responding you are only putting fuel on the fire and perpetuating the problem.

Just my $0.002 (because I'm cheap)

So time after time after time I see the excuse for insulting others or another guild is because they do not want to do ranked? Trash talking of course it's part of any pvp experience. Heck it's in sports as well or anything that's somewhat competitive. In football they talk trash and the game is over they shake hands move on winner or loser. But if in the game someone was to spit in a players face all hell would break loose. Boxing taunting and talking trash before matches is what it's all about. But if during the match a boxer hits below the belt it's taboo even though it's fighting. Basketball they talk trash as well. But if a player is on the ground and they get stomped on. There will be ejection or maybe a fight will break out.

Point I am making is talk trash in good fun no problem. But making alts and logging onto the other side of a faction to harass others or making alts to impersonate a person (REALLY)? Only to cause drama with others and other guilds to make it look like it's the real person with that name (IS WRONG).

You want Republic or any other guild to do something? Try to approach people like you would want in real life and not like they are some piece of crap! Ask nice (I know it's hard for some) but for example don't spend week after week insulting people then send them a tell "hey buddy you want to ...blah blah blah?" do you really think that person or guild would want to have anything to do with you at that point? (NOPE)

We had a guild just not to long ago (not saying name) that wanted to do a 4v4 in the Outlaws Den. When Ralen asked if anyone would want to do it 99% responded nope not until they stop with the attacks and insults towards members of our guild. Their Guild Master of course responded with a "Troll" comment. It's also funny these same people would rage that we have 6 from our guild in a WZ and that same WZ they have 4. It's just a silly excuse that people are using to say whatever offensive thing they choose.

Anyways really like the way this topic is somewhat staying constructive and hats off to all those who have tried to keep it that way! (GROUP HUG INC)