2 or 3 days Ago, I was in a Hard Mode Karagga's Palace Run, what should have taken an hour and a half, took SIX HOURS. First boss, enraged at 10%, tried a second time, got him then, enraged at 2%. Second Boss Jarg and Sorno, almost no one hit the carbon droid and NO ONE INTERRUPTED UNLOAD OR MED SCAN. We got lucky they didn't enrage. 3rd Boss, everything went fine. 4th Boss, We wiped 27 times in counting. Because the puzzle was too slow because a melee was doing that and eating the mines, sent a ranged up there, everything went fine, sped the dps up, and 28 was our lucky number. 5th Boss, Karagga, people just stood in the Vortex and ate it. Every single time. Finally got them out of it, and then they stood in the fire, got em out of it, then they stood in the cluster bombs, got them out of it, we did the boss properly, and he enrages at 10%, every time. We wiped 32 times in counting on Karagga and just disbanded, it was impossible. Anyone got any advice for bad runs like this? I went in there with 2mil, I came out with 90k.

say good luck and sorry but i cant take it anymore, right click on your portrait, leave group. click on bottom right of your UI, exit area. ignore if needed any player not agreeing with you about leaving.

if you are leading, feel free to kick who's undergeared or who doesn't know tactics or who is not following mechanics even if has gear and achievements.

i wish they's scale up EV/KP..

Ouch! Alright, some advice:

 

1. If the numbers you are quoting are accurate, never try more than 5 times on a pug HM EV or KP run. You are just setting yourself up to have a bad time. If it is a guild progression run or something like that with people trying to progress, it can be a different story, but progression is a different beast.

2. If you are hitting enrage timers on either EV or KP HM, that means that your groups dps is just absurdly low. I usually will leave a group if they enrage on the first boss, as if they do enrage there, it is very unlikely that they will be able to beat Karagga, as dps is not something that can be easily fixed with "paying attention", more likely it means that your team doesn't know their rotations, and hasn't bothered to put any time into doing so. It probably also means that you don't have any "superstars" so to speak on the team who can pull 6k+dps and carry the other dps. So unfortunately, those dps just need to learn to pull more than 1.5k before they try KP again.

 

Not much else to say honestly. Ya, standing in vortexes and whatnot is annoying, but it doesn't do that much damage, your bigger issue is definitely that the dps in the group are very bad.

After 2nd wipe put all the 'tards on ignore and leave.

After 2nd wipe put all the 'tards on ignore and leave.

 

This is a very effective way to save yourself pain if people aren't willing to listen to advise, there are generally a lot of groups going so rather leave before 1st boss if you notice that people are plebs.

Ouch! Alright, some advice:

 

1. If the numbers you are quoting are accurate, never try more than 5 times on a pug HM EV or KP run. You are just setting yourself up to have a bad time. If it is a guild progression run or something like that with people trying to progress, it can be a different story, but progression is a different beast.

2. If you are hitting enrage timers on either EV or KP HM, that means that your groups dps is just absurdly low. I usually will leave a group if they enrage on the first boss, as if they do enrage there, it is very unlikely that they will be able to beat Karagga, as dps is not something that can be easily fixed with "paying attention", more likely it means that your team doesn't know their rotations, and hasn't bothered to put any time into doing so. It probably also means that you don't have any "superstars" so to speak on the team who can pull 6k+dps and carry the other dps. So unfortunately, those dps just need to learn to pull more than 1.5k before they try KP again.

 

Not much else to say honestly. Ya, standing in vortexes and whatnot is annoying, but it doesn't do that much damage, your bigger issue is definitely that the dps in the group are very bad.

 

I was helping a friends guild progress to get to know the op on Hard Mode, cause we're good friends, and we followed every mechanic, and you're right, there just simply was not enough DPS at all, I started inspecting gear when I got near the leaving point on Karagga. 1 guy came in in full 204 PvP gear, another in 208 PvE gear, the tank in 198 tank gear, and the healers were geared as dps, even had dps relics, it was sad. I told him after it disbanded to teach his guild how to gear for what class and spec before they tried to do anything else.

I was helping a friends guild progress to get to know the op on Hard Mode, cause we're good friends, and we followed every mechanic, and you're right, there just simply was not enough DPS at all, I started inspecting gear when I got near the leaving point on Karagga. 1 guy came in in full 204 PvP gear, another in 208 PvE gear, the tank in 198 tank gear, and the healers were geared as dps, even had dps relics, it was sad. I told him after it disbanded to teach his guild how to gear for what class and spec before they tried to do anything else.

 

Ya, sometimes it happens like that. To be fair, a tank in full 198 gear is probably quite good, as that is gear they got in 3.0 from doing hm rav and tos, so I would actually trust one like that. And the only difference between healing gear and dps gear is accuracy (they use the same relics now actually, serendipitous assault and focused retribution). But I agree that the 204 pvp and 208 pve is just too low for any but the best dpseres to power through KP.

You would be surprised how little impact gear has on your average DPS (compare the numbers between gear levels in this thread for example), the big breaker is stat allocation and rotation execution, seeing the gear levels you describe I think it would be totally possible to power through if people knew tactics and had better rotation execution.

I was helping a friends guild progress to get to know the op on Hard Mode, cause we're good friends, and we followed every mechanic, and you're right, there just simply was not enough DPS at all, I started inspecting gear when I got near the leaving point on Karagga. 1 guy came in in full 204 PvP gear, another in 208 PvE gear, the tank in 198 tank gear, and the healers were geared as dps, even had dps relics, it was sad. I told him after it disbanded to teach his guild how to gear for what class and spec before they tried to do anything else.

 

To be fair, gear has never been more meaningless as an indication of someone's skill than now. With the advent of priority HM ops, it's extremely easy to get top end gear just by running EV/KP ad nauseam. I've been in quite a handful of operations where you can see players in full 224 hit enrage timers on every boss and get out-dps'd by formidable players in old 198s.

 

But I agree, if they want to do any harder content, what your friend's guild needs in the first place is not knowledge of HM mechanics, but gearing, learning and practising their rotations.

1 guy came in in full 204 PvP gear, another in 208 PvE gear, the tank in 198 tank gear,

KP HM can be easily and effortlessly done even with groups where everyone is in just 198 gear.

 

And while 208 comms gear is, despite being higher the level, actually possibly worse than optimized 198 raid gear, it should still be quite easily doable even with that

 

and the healers were geared as dps,

Healing gear and dps gear have almost the same stats. The only difference is that a dps needs some accuracy rating while for healers accuracy rating is useless. All other stats are the same. This does not make that much difference that it would be any kind of issue in KP HM.

 

Well of course a dps set bonus is useless to healer (except not completely useless for Sage/Sorcerer) but you certainly don't need that in KP.

 

even had dps relics,

DPS relics???

 

Having looked through all currently available relics, I can't find any that would be useful only for dps, but not for healer.

 

There were some relics that work only for dps like over 3 years ago and I suppose it is still possible to have one of those, but I doubt that was the case. Sounds more like you don't know what you're talking about.

 

it was sad. I told him after it disbanded to teach his guild how to gear for what class and spec before they tried to do anything else

Seriously gear is the least of their problems. Telling them to get better gear is almost bad advice as it just feeds the misconception that they would somehow magically become good just by getting geared. They will not.

 

And as a final note:

I do think bad gear actually to some degree correlates with bad dps, but that still has nothing to do with gear.

It's just that people who don't know how to get geared tend to often also be the same ones who don't know how to play their class and are clueless about rotations.

Likewise people who have good understanding about their class abilities and rotations, also are more likely to be the ones that know how to get geared.

There are of course many many exceptions but I would still say there is at least a little bit correlation.

Correlation however should not be confused with causation. Gear is not the primary reason for good or bad dps. Gear affects things but only by a relatively small amount. Knowing how to play affects a lot more. A skilled player with ungeared toon will always do better than a bad player with well geared toon.

You would be surprised how little impact gear has on your average DPS (compare the numbers between gear levels in this thread for example), the big breaker is stat allocation and rotation execution, seeing the gear levels you describe I think it would be totally possible to power through if people knew tactics and had better rotation execution.

 

this. 100X this. 204 pvp gear is good enough to kill all but the last bosses in the newer ops. hitting enrage on the first boss of kp is an indicator that they don't know their rotation. better gear will not solve that problem, at best, it will mask it until you get to a later boss.

Gear-wise it is undermannable in 192/198.

There's no such thing as "healer with dps relics" cause those are the same, as it was pointed out earlier. Even clicky ones. Just because of stat allocation which differs only for accuracy and with 4.0 accounts for quite a small part of overall stat pool anyway.

Getting random 208 gear with like 115% accuracy or 103% accuracy (ranged), for example, easily can sink one's dps for quite a lot.

 

Tbh I've seen Karagga's enraging at like 10% when I pugged it one day, but then again we had overpowered tank and healer for that content and thus managed to kill it with only said healer staying alive in godbubble. But that was 'superstar save'.

 

Other than that, Karagga's itself is fairly easy, probably your group got tired after Fabricator, which is understood. I don't think it's an attention/rotation issue as it goes, rather gravely misunderstanding of the game. Like, total ignorance.

 

If people have someone who can trace their mistakes and whom they trust, it's getting better in no time. Guess you met a wild pack of people isolated of the more proficient part of community at least to the point when they don't try following advice they get, if any.