SWG Jedi Vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiRfgsSapMA

Which is better? discuss below

SWG Jedi Vid:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiRfgsSapMA

 

Which is better? discuss below

Your video does not work.

Ummmm

You removed the video OP...

But anyway SWG LSJ was a lot more fun. Having full deflection and then having mediation buff ontop of that made me a beast when I was LSJ that is....

I pretty much killed most of the players that I went up against in Restuss unless it was the known group of hackers of couese...

Also, space battles.

You mean the god awful mini game on rails which serves no ingame purpose? Riiiight...

As opposed to how seamless (sarcasm) and easy (sarcasm) it was to find big space battles in SWG and play them without having to grind 30 levels (sarcasm) before you could play them and not get vaporized by anything over Tier 1? Yeah, those were great. (Sarcasm)

Oh, and cause getting to finally fly an X-Wing was the simplest task ever.

As opposed to how seamless (sarcasm) and easy (sarcasm) it was to find big space battles in SWG and play them without having to grind 30 levels (sarcasm) before you could play them and not get vaporized by anything over Tier 1? Yeah, those were great. (Sarcasm)

 

Oh, and cause getting to finally fly an X-Wing was the simplest task ever.

SWTOR's space battles: last minute mini game addition just to say they have space battles.

SWG's space battles: Full expansion upon itself and something that belongs in an MMO.

Those were the days of MMOs before WoW came along and brought all the ADD kids who want everything without having to work for it.

As opposed to how seamless (sarcasm) and easy (sarcasm) it was to find big space battles in SWG and play them without having to grind 30 levels (sarcasm) before you could play them and not get vaporized by anything over Tier 1? Yeah, those were great. (Sarcasm)

 

Oh, and cause getting to finally fly an X-Wing was the simplest task ever.

I never had a problem with that in SWG. On a few of the other points you mentioned earlier. In swg granted for sabers there was no dual wield option but you were not pigeon holed into either single blade or double blade you could use either at will. Which they could have done in this game the same way they did it in the KOTOR games this game is based on. Also there was gear jedi could get that had hoods i.e. shatter point cloak and cloak of hate depending if you were lsj or dsj. I do like that in tor you can choose whether to do damage or tank if you are a Jedi where as in swg if you were lsj you were a tank and if you were dsj you were dps. I also like that in tor you can also choose to be a healer were as in swg you only had self heals. Imho space was much better in swg where you actually got to choose the direction in which you could fly. Also in a space mission you could choose which targets to focus on rather then being told you have the fastest ship in the galaxy yet 90% of the ships you fight pass you so you can shoot them.

SWTOR's space battles: last minute mini game addition just to say they have space battles.

 

SWG's space battles: Full expansion upon itself and something that belongs in an MMO.

 

Those were the days of MMOs before WoW came along and brought all the ADD kids who want everything without having to work for it.

I agree I hope for Tor that eventually they do expand space to be more than a 1980's video game. I miss having my own customized ship. I miss having a ship where I could say ok gang hop in. I miss being able to explore a sector of space and see what is there.

So I have a question that may seem antagonistic however my feelings toward SWG end in I wish I knew it existed. My question is, If SWG was so awesome and everyone prefered it, why did it have to be shut down? I would assume if an MMORPG is popular and very good it will only grow and expand. However as much as I love the Star Wars Universe and Games I never heard of it until Game Informer did an article about the server shut down. I think SWTOR is a lot of fun, I keep my subsciption even when my playtime drops due to other games and hobbies because I like to jump on for an hour here or there and I want to support the game as much as possible. I have no complaints about the game, I think it had a great start and can't wait to see what it becomes. In fact the only negative I encounter is the overwhelming amount of people who would rather complain about what it doesn't have than enjoy what it does. I am not immune to wishing for something and maybe BioWare watches and makes new stuff happen, however I bet you have a better chance of having your gaming wishes granted if you are nice to them and appreciate thier hard work.

Maybe?

Could be.

So I have a question that may seem antagonistic however my feelings toward SWG end in I wish I knew it existed. My question is, If SWG was so awesome and everyone prefered it, why did it have to be shut down? I would assume if an MMORPG is popular and very good it will only grow and expand. However as much as I love the Star Wars Universe and Games I never heard of it until Game Informer did an article about the server shut down. I think SWTOR is a lot of fun, I keep my subsciption even when my playtime drops due to other games and hobbies because I like to jump on for an hour here or there and I want to support the game as much as possible. I have no complaints about the game, I think it had a great start and can't wait to see what it becomes. In fact the only negative I encounter is the overwhelming amount of people who would rather complain about what it doesn't have than enjoy what it does. I am not immune to wishing for something and maybe BioWare watches and makes new stuff happen, however I bet you have a better chance of having your gaming wishes granted if you are nice to them and appreciate thier hard work.

Maybe?

Could be.

Well in all honesty SWG didn't need to be shut down, SOE's license wasn't set to expire until June 2012. It was shut down due to EA's contract for this game including a no competition clause. It's just how they do business. Look at their sports game franchises and the forums for each to see how well they respond to problems with their games since we the consumer have no other options for realistic football(American) and NHL hockey games.

Back to SWG. A big problem was when they overhauled the combat system on the ground, not once but twice. The second time being the New Game Enhancement or NGE. When they dropped the nge on the game they pared it down from 32 unique professions to 9 "iconic" professions where one could choose to start as a Jedi where before you had to either grind out from 1 to 32 professions or go thru 4 phases in the village. Basically overnight a lot of players lost the profession they loved and left angry and vented. Which in turn kept people away and the population steadily declined.

People loved the fact that it offered more play styles than pvp, raid, grind for gear, grind alts rinse and repeat. It had some grinding to it, but it wasn't about grind and didn't feel like a 2nd job. I know a lot of people liked the game mechanics before the nge, but I also know a lot of people that stuck around and have said that the game after the nge was much better.

In short, past game development decisions led to people leaving along with the no competition clause led to it being shut down.

Well in all honesty SWG didn't need to be shut down, SOE's license wasn't set to expire until June 2012. It was shut down due to EA's contract for this game including a no competition clause.

Actually, that was part of the contract with LucasArts, not with EA (Bioware got the contract with LucasArts, not EA). Lucas didn't want there to be 2 competing Star Wars MMOs out simultaneously.

The biggest, by far, difference between TOR and SWG, however, is in the fundamental design of the games themselves. SWG was designed as a sand box MMO. TOR was designed as a traditional MMO. Yes, it restricted a lot of the selections for what you could do (Dancer is not a class in TOR, but it was a profession and an an often required one in SWG), but it provides a lot more in the way of tactical combat options while remaining balanced.

Many of the "omg SWG was better!" arguments stem from the fact that Bioware did not go down the path of designing a sandbox MMO. They wanted to focus on storytelling and gameplay over world building and non-combat options. It's impossible to really say that one was "better" than the other since they're completely different *styles* of games. Bioware expressly stated that they weren't developing a sequel or prequel or anything related to SWG. They weren't designing a sandbox. They were designing an interactive story.

If the order was reversed and SWG came out after TOR, you can be damned sure that people would be complaining about the lack of storyline, fewer combat class options, and less raiding. Most of the people that I hear complaining about TOR being somehow "worse" than SWG are those people that lament the lack of having the sandbox they so loved. It's the difference (in developmental terms) between EVE (which is almost *entirely* player driven) and WoW (which is almost *entirely* content driven): they appeal to different people and have different priorities. Complaining about those differences is entirely pointless since it's not going to change anything. It's not like the developers are going to somehow undo all of the content driven design the game is based around and switch to a sandbox model.

I may be seting myself up for disappointment, but I am curious about these other play styles, what was your favorite? Do you think maybe once TOR becomes more profitable BioWare will be able to expand in these directions. I think it would be cool to have social events designed to get to know people, or help new players get leveled.

Me personally, I loved having more things to do than grinding alts, raids and ground pvp.

Granted I had my fair share of alts, in fact more alts on one server than we're currently allowed here per server, mainly to try out all the different classes in game.

As for the grindy part, well I did spend 13 solid months in space in SWG grinding out all 9 squadrons, (3 Rebel, 3 Freelance, 3 Imperial) on 7 of my 8 original toons there. Mainly because I enjoyed the space game there, and also to get parts to outfit my ships for all my toons. Not to mention the space pvp battles we had there that put what they refer to as space in this game to shame.

I loved that we had an actual space game, granted it wasn't there at launch, but even then it still didn't feel like a last minute, very little thought put into it, tack on to say we have space like it does here.

I loved the in depth crafting system, granted it would drive you nuts at times.

I knew coming in that this wasn't going to be anything like SWG, but I still decided I'd give it a year. Honestly, as of late, I've not really been logging in as much. It's not really holding my interest at this time.

As for Lucas not wanting 2 games going at the same time, when did he change his mind? Last I had heard, he had zero problem with 2 games going at the same time. After all, it would mean more money for him and his company.

As for Lucas not wanting 2 games going at the same time, when did he change his mind? Last I had heard, he had zero problem with 2 games going at the same time. After all, it would mean more money for him and his company.

From what I remember, it was an issue with not wanting to split the fan base between 2 games.

All it takes is some imagination and a pile of cash.

Not really. The entire point of a sandbox game is that the players are given free reign to do pretty much anything they might want to do. The entire point of a story driven game is that the players exist as characters within a larger story. Those 2 things exist at cross purposes. Even from a developmental standpoint, it's still cross purposes because sandbox design operates around creating a plethora of options for players to get access to, generally including a highly manipulable world while a story driven design operates around creating a cohesive story. The only way you're really going to see the two of those in the same game in appreciable quantities is if they exist in discrete and separate parts of the game and don't really interact appreciably, which therein begs the question of what the point is exactly.

From the perspective of "impossible design", it's not impossible insofar as not having the tech available at the moment. It's impossible insofar as they are entirely discrete types of games. You either get a sandbox or a story.

So I have a question that may seem antagonistic however my feelings toward SWG end in I wish I knew it existed. My question is, If SWG was so awesome and everyone prefered it, why did it have to be shut down? I would assume if an MMORPG is popular and very good it will only grow and expand. However as much as I love the Star Wars Universe and Games I never heard of it until Game Informer did an article about the server shut down. I think SWTOR is a lot of fun, I keep my subsciption even when my playtime drops due to other games and hobbies because I like to jump on for an hour here or there and I want to support the game as much as possible. I have no complaints about the game, I think it had a great start and can't wait to see what it becomes. In fact the only negative I encounter is the overwhelming amount of people who would rather complain about what it doesn't have than enjoy what it does. I am not immune to wishing for something and maybe BioWare watches and makes new stuff happen, however I bet you have a better chance of having your gaming wishes granted if you are nice to them and appreciate thier hard work.

 

Maybe?

 

Could be.

SWG had some issues, the massive problem of course was that SOE really burned the players when they dropped the Combat Upgrades that allowed people to become jedi from the start. Imagine grinding Full warhero armor here and then making that a purchasble item for 20k to all new players. So people were bitter.

Another problem, one i think a lot of MMOs have is advertising, SWG never seemed to advertise and the only publicity it got was hate from the burned player base.

SWG had things like entertainer professions and business owners and basically an interactive world, something that newer mmos are getting away from and therefore the audience has changed greatly. There was no group finder or "need/greed options" it was just meet people, make friends and play together.

SWTOR offers alot that SWG could never offer, graphics being one of them. Yet, for some reason some of the things that SWG was good for SWTOR kinda left out. Day/night, interactive commnity, free roaming space, home ownership.

Why they left these things out, i dont know. I guess they figured the audience today was more interested in grinding gear than interacting with each other. We dont even have simple things like chat bubbles. (which drives me nuts, lol)

SWG also let you buy and combine stats from your gear more readily, so you could customize your gameplay alot. This was an awesome feature. I did my research and my Light side jedi could really shine in PvP.

SWG was struggling til lthe end yet pumping out new content every couple months, the last years we saw zombies, costumes (yeah you could turn into a rancor, jawa, gungan or even a mynock), hourly invasion in major cities and even atmospheric flight. You could buy robotic limbs, even a robotic chest piece for super cyborg action.

Another cool feature was that i could change both factions and professions, this was cool because i never had to level up again. The leveling process was tedious and boring in SWG, but you only had to do this 1 time. I did it twice in 8 years. You can experiece the entire game with one character, this was awesome.

So IMO Jedi was more fun in SWG because my character had more life, he owned a sandcrawler home in Moenia, had been in the empire but defected to the rebellion, he was always hunted by bounty hunters (other players) his gametyle and history had been his own. Here my jedi can do much cooler animations but he is the same as everyone else and his gear is the same as everyone else, so he is ok i guess.

Not really. The entire point of a sandbox game is that the players are given free reign to do pretty much anything they might want to do. The entire point of a story driven game is that the players exist as characters within a larger story. Those 2 things exist at cross purposes. Even from a developmental standpoint, it's still cross purposes because sandbox design operates around creating a plethora of options for players to get access to, generally including a highly manipulable world while a story driven design operates around creating a cohesive story. The only way you're really going to see the two of those in the same game in appreciable quantities is if they exist in discrete and separate parts of the game and don't really interact appreciably, which therein begs the question of what the point is exactly.

 

From the perspective of "impossible design", it's not impossible insofar as not having the tech available at the moment. It's impossible insofar as they are entirely discrete types of games. You either get a sandbox or a story.

I have in the past used the word impossible to describe things when I cannot imagine how. You yourself have already begun to imagine the possibility. Sometimes I have to start a project to solve the challenges, but that why we try, thats what makes being a craftsman or an artist fun. when I close my eyes I can see an RPG combat system that feels as visceral as Assasins Creed although I have not seen it and do not know how it would work. Maybe it exists maybe it doesn't, but words like impossible and never are the only things that garantee failure. You may not wish to play a game that allows you to follow stories and events when you choose all while providing major areas to play and create, but I am certain I am not the only person that would.

One of the benifits of digital media is the only resource you cannot reuse is time and if the forums are any indicator people who play games and love game have lots of that. I read some of the descriptions of SWG, they mention quest givers, isn't a quest a story? Or is the SWG definition of a quest different? On the Republic fleet I can have a dance party, the only reason I cannot change things is the fact that it is not programed to allow us to do so.

I would not be suprised if the artists and craftsmen at BioWare spend some time every week trying new things. Give them your ideas, your time, and your money and I bet they will create things you and I can barely imagine.

One thing I much prefer about SWTOR to SWG; in Galaxies, you could be a Jedi and side with the Empire, the people who commited Genocide against your kind, that never made any sense to me, at all. And yes, the skill tree let you either take Light Side or Dark Side powers, but the thing is, a Force User who uses the Dark Side is called a Dark Jedi, having a Light Side Jedi working with the Empire was always something that burned me about Galaxies since it went against the lore so much.

And I have to ask, I really do, was it REALLY enjoyable to have to grind for days or weeks just to start playing a Jedi? If you want to be a Jedi it should just be an option, instead of everyone playing the same classes because 'they have to' in order to unlock a Jedi. People who want to be Smugglers can be Smugglers, people who want to be a Jedi can be Jedi. It's just common sense.

A large portion of the hate for SWG was when the NGE dropped and it went from 32 professions to 9, including making Jedi a starting profession, eliminating some the professions people liked and chose to play.

Sure it had it's bugs, but it also had a lot more variety, something this game severely lacks.

Variety is the spice of life.