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Synergy between class stories


Stradlin

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It is mildly disappointing and plain foolish how there are terribly few meaningful(or even meaningless) intersections between the class stories. I've now played through Sith War, Sith Inq stories. Jedi Knight about half way through. There are hardly any connections there for players to find. It seems stories were written by 8 different people who never met, spoke to eachother or planned anything out. Massive missed opportunity here.

 

Class story should tell literally just that. Story of one of your characters. There is no reason why these stories couldn't come together to form one or two bigger pictures though. No reason for them to be so terrifyingly isolated and seperate. There is no reason why stories and fates of important NPCs, or even PCs couldn't be spread over multiple class stories. Instead of 50 different companions, it would have been pretty fine to have..say, 25-30 different companions who travel from PlayerClass to another, even from faction to another as their stories and fates evolve.

 

.....Perhaps I am wrong? Have you encountered class stoies that " play together" well? Class stories that compliment eachother, so to speak? Perhaps I could gather recommendations and such in OP in case there are any to be made.

 

I really hope you can prove me wrong here.

 

Warn about spoiers!

 

Sith War - Sith Inq

This makes an extremely pathetic combination in terms of synergy. Nothing whatsoever suggests these two would live in same Galaxy even, heh.

 

Sith Inq - Jedi Knight I can see these going together fairly well. Even here it certainly doesn't feel like a sequel-prequel type of a thing or that writers would have actually been aware of what the other is doing. Rather, they stories just happen to fit together by coinsidense. Wellp, that's the vibe I'm getting.

 

Sith War - Jedi Knight

Pretty cool " Ohhh..I seeeee " moment in store here. There isn't an actual intersection but at least player gets very clear feel of both stories existing in same Galaxy. Prolly most entertaining if you play through as Sith War 1st. In terms of timeline, I'm 100% sure Knight happens before Sith War though. But yas, I would recommend playing them in reversed order.

Edited by Stradlin
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Does a timeline of any kind exist of class stories? Has it been possible to establish one?

 

I'd assume Jedi Knight story takes place towards the beginning, Sith Inq at end.

 

No there is no timeline because the class stories happen concurrently and there aren't enough clues as to the class story order on most of the planets meaning that most of it would be enitrely guesswork.

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A search for "class timeline" on the forums yields multiple results if you wish to try to track class timelines in a spoiler-saturated way.

 

The greatest problem with closely intertwining class stories is that it would force the game to dictate events that should be a player's decisions. If my Knight does something that impacts the Inquisitor line, the Knight's LS/DS/alternate solution decision has to be arbitrarily set by the Inquisitor writers when they're writing their side. Not okay.

 

However there are multiple crossovers and perspectives of the same unchangeable faction and planetary events.

 

There's significant reasoning/overlapping events between the Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight in Act 3, though due to the fact that the NPCs in each line aren't talking to each other, you aren't likely to realize it until you've played both lines. The NPCs aren't coordinating, but the writers clearly were.

 

Companion crossovers happen in several class conversations; I won't spoil those, but you'll find that Balmorra and Nar Shaddaa as character background locations are hotbeds of crossover activity.

 

The Empire's loss of Balmorra becomes hilariously clear if you note the pattern from playing Inquisitor, Bounty Hunter, and, to a lesser extent, Sith Warrior.

 

The Agent's recon during Act 3 has a number of blink-and-you'll-miss-it references to other class lines. This is Intelligence, after all, and they're keeping an eye on the situation.

 

The Consular gets unique insight into the planetary situation that the Empire classes knew about Balmorra.

Edited by bright_ephemera
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I recall a developer talking about how they didn't want *too* much crossover because it would make the galaxy seem too small or too coincidental that all these major characters would be running into each other.

 

However, I have noticed quite a bit of crossovers with the classes I've played. One of the Consular companion was directly affected by action taken by the Agent, and one of the Agent's companions turns up in the Knight story, for instance. In general there's a lot of NPCs that you run into on one side or another that play a part in other class/faction.

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However, I have noticed quite a bit of crossovers with the classes I've played. One of the Consular companion was directly affected by action taken by the Agent, and one of the Agent's companions turns up in the Knight story, for instance. In general there's a lot of NPCs that you run into on one side or another that play a part in other class/faction.

yeah, the crossovers seem to happen mostly in companion convos.

 

the ones i saw so far were the consular and Qyzen calling Mako to get some help, as well as both Vette and Risha mentioning each other in their convos. apparently, they were both best friends when they were children. i heard that Doc brings Kaliyo onto the knight's ship for something too.

 

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I recall a developer talking about how they didn't want *too* much crossover because it would make the galaxy seem too small or too coincidental that all these major characters would be running into each other.

 

Hahahha

 

Out of all BS reasons they could have given this would have to be among reekiest ones..:D Tis nice smallness of Galaxy apparently isn't apparent or bothersome when these same classes consistently visit all the same warehouses, city blocks and factories for slightly different reasons:o ..And do all the same sidequests.

 

I almost loved Pulp Fiction but then realized it is too coincidental!!:o

 

To be fair, I'm not exactly asking some delicate complex net of structures combining all 8 stories into one exiting multi layered exisatental whole or anything. Having said that, I remember finding it very odd when I began realizing odds are none of the storylines mirror eachother. That much, at least, they could and should have done. Ie, some chapter or 2 of Sith Warrior giving other side of the coin, story of Smuggler another. (for example)

 

Next paragraph spoils Sith War story a bit. Jedi Knight/IA spoiled too in some vague mild way

 

Just few easy examples of what simply should be there in much greater quantities; Why doesn't Jedi knight (for example..) ever meet Jaesa Willsaam? Why don't we get a quest or two from her on Pubbie side? Additional depth and much more tragic fate there. There are, quite literally, over nine thousand NPCs in TOR that could have used more screen time and additional depth. Why isn't the bad *** commander of Balmorra Resistance Imps have to deal with around for at least some of the Reoublic classes? Master of Sith War is knee deep in Imperial Intelligence and counter intelligence. Why is it we don't have any meaningful interaction with him as IA? Why is it he isn't the one puppet mastering the repetitive " lets steal superweapons" drive of Jedi Knight story?

Etc. Etc. Etc. More. familiar. faces.

 

If Original StaWa trilogy was made by BW writers, lass hauling Death Star plans, lass inprisoned in Death Star, lass who is Luke's sister and lass who is Anakin's daughter would have been four different characters who never meet or interact with eachother. Tho Lass#3 might mention Lass#1 in dialogue you get @ 400 affection points.

 

Commercially, one of TOR's larrgest issues was how people would finish one class and then call it quits. If player would have had strong impression of certain fates still left unfolding through eyes of some other class, it would have kept some portions of them masses in game for longer, perhaps. To give this impression strongly enough would not have been that difficult. It does take more than some exploitation via companion dialogues though.

 

...Having said that, I'm just glad to hear such exploitation exists, at least. I've played all them wrong classes, int his regard:p

 

Total of 8 class stories make 4 coins. Republic of each giving heads, Sith side the tails. This initially felt like best and most obvious way to handle things to me.

Edited by Stradlin
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The issue here is more basic: since it is MMO (pity) with possible story continuation, no class story can be finished in a way that it could interfere with another class ending. And the best way to achieve that is to make them as separate as possible.

Hence the result.

 

I still think that it would be much better for everyone if the MMO part is excluded. Let the "serious PVP players" play their Rifts, WoWs, Guild Wars, and other fantasy things with no immersion.

 

Leave Star Wars to RPG players where one can really feel his actions make a difference.

 

How do you feel knowing that on one side you "Maelstrom Prison" on another you "Foundry".

And that by multiple times.

Hello? How's that sense making?

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How do you feel knowing that on one side you "Maelstrom Prison" on another you "Foundry".

And that by multiple times.

 

Hello? How's that sense making?

 

Revan spoilers in 1st paragraph beware omg

 

Eh?

What in this bothers you and why? In Pubbie quest chain Revan even speaks about heading to Foundry once he has gotten his arse rescued. - Prime example of synergy I spoke of in OP. When you hop from faction to another the Revan instances give at least some sense of developing and evolving story; impression of you exploring a coin with two sides.

 

It is pretty safe to say vast majority of people never enjoyed TOR's end game enough to stick around for it. It is also safe to say EA burned bazillion dollars for making hundreds of hours of stories spread among 8 different characters. There are like 50 fully voiced companions in this game. That is highly impressive and utterly sick by any and all accounts. Conclusion; this is not an MMO where most people stick with one character and enjoy the end game. This aspect of game is viewed bit weak in TOR. Meanwhile, sheer quantity of unique class-specific content ensures this game shines in reroll department. Yet, EA did very little to actually encourage and suggest people to do so. During launch, there was absolutely nothing in place that would...suggest person who has dinged 50 that he might wanna check other classes out. When you finish the class story, plot really should poke and prod you towards another class in some obvious, natural fashion. It does no such thing. This is infinitely disappointing and wasted opportunity to get people hooked.

Edited by Stradlin
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Does a timeline of any kind exist of class stories? Has it been possible to establish one?

 

I'd assume Jedi Knight story takes place towards the beginning, Sith Inq at end.

 

It is bad taste to quote myself admittedly:p

 

But yeah. TIMELINE. Wish this had been a word underlined on that chalkboard of the nonexistant meeting BW writers had. You know, the one where they spoke about TOR's storylines and how they should come together.

 

I'd love to see sub screen named Timeline in the game actually. Something integrated as part of the Legacy or Achievments perhaps.

 

Ie, you roll Jedi Knight and a tiny blue achivement dot pops up in your timeline. " 32 years after Treaty of Coruscant; Jedi Knight Stradlin arrives at Tython"

Roll Sith Inquis and you'd get vile red dot saying " 38 years after Treaty o Coruscant; EvilStradlin finishes trials on Korriban" etc. Catch my drift?

 

Such approach, such method would have been very inspiring tool for writers to craft some easy-to-follow and awesome Pulp Fiction type of intersections, twists and surprises. Ofc, it is like 6 years and 300 million dollars too late to realistically hope, request or suggest anything like this to be implemented in game ever. Just idle whatiffing. I tells ye, it would have been awesome. :l

Edited by Stradlin
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It is known that the Inq is after the Sith Warrior, or at least we can, with some accuracy, assume so. At the end of the Inq story, you find yourself

on the dark council in replace of Thanaton. During the fight with Baras in the Sith Warrior story, Thanaton is on the Dark Council.

This shows there is SOME small relation, and that there is some minor spots you can find an order.

 

Sorry if I spelled any names wrong:D

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Revan spoilers in 1st paragraph beware omg

 

Eh?

What in this bothers you and why? In Pubbie quest chain Revan even speaks about heading to Foundry once he has gotten his arse rescued. - Prime example of synergy I spoke of in OP. When you hop from faction to another the Revan instances give at least some sense of developing and evolving story; impression of you exploring a coin with two sides.

 

Tru, tru. But I have never explored the Sith clasees that far.... still in front of me.

 

I It is also safe to say EA burned bazillion dollars for making hundreds of hours of stories spread among 8 different characters. There are like 50 fully voiced companions in this game. That is highly impressive and utterly sick by any and all accounts. Conclusion; this is not an MMO where most people stick with one character and enjoy the end game.

 

Tru again. But that's why there are 8 characters.. it's an unique MMO.

 

 

Meanwhile, sheer quantity of unique class-specific content ensures this game shines in reroll department. Yet, EA did very little to actually encourage and suggest people to do so. During launch, there was absolutely nothing in place that would...suggest person who has dinged 50 that he might wanna check other classes out. When you finish the class story, plot really should poke and prod you towards another class in some obvious, natural fashion. It does no such thing. This is infinitely disappointing and wasted opportunity to get people hooked.

 

Howgh. True too.

 

it would help if some kind of "classification" is" figured out" as to where to start earliest and on what class to finish to have the most of it.

i.e. one starts with Smuggler, and via Sith Warrior, trooper arrives finally at Sith Inq.. or vice versa.

 

my wishful thinking actually

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some spoilers...

 

 

However, I have noticed quite a bit of crossovers with the classes I've played. One of the Consular companion was directly affected by action taken by the Agent, and one of the Agent's companions turns up in the Knight story, for instance. In general there's a lot of NPCs that you run into on one side or another that play a part in other class/faction.

 

More specifically, Qyzen says he used to run with Braden and specifically contacts Mako during a class quest, and Kaliyo shows up on the JK's ship.

 

 

All the stories are basically concurrent. The endings are not.

 

For Instance, the Bounty Hunter occurs first, as he forces the resignation/kills the head of the Republic. He is then replaced. The rest are a bit of a muddle. While the Warrior is laying the smackdown on Baras,

the Jedi Knight is simultaneously smacking down the Emperor. Immediately after they defeat their opponents and the Warrior strolls out of the chamber, Thanaton addresses the Dark Council on his loss of the Kaggath, in which case the Inquisitor walks in and defeats him.

 

 

Time-wise, the Bounty Hunter happens first, while the Inquisitor is probably dead last, we can surmise.

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I know some of the companion storylines intersect, or did prior to the start of the game. The General at the end of Black Talon mentions a bunch of weapons that the Empire and Republic are developing, including at least one from the JK story.

 

Also the Smuggler and Trooper story lines start at the same time. I believe it is Corso at the very start of the Smuggler storline that mentions a troop transport (presumably carrying the Trooper) being shot up Separatists, right as you landed. Also the in the Counsular storyline, i believe it's the end of Tython, there is a comment about the Twi'leks having a new Matriarch. I can't remember anything from the beginnings of the BH, IA, SI, or SW storylines.

 

My presumption is that all the class stories happen concurrently (or within a few days/weeks). Also the order of the story happens in the order of the planets you visit. This would mean that Emp-Balmora happens before Rep-Balmora, and Rep-Taris happens before Emp-Taris. I'm not entirely sure of this since I haven't played through each side to 50, yet.

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I know some of the companion storylines intersect, or did prior to the start of the game. The General at the end of Black Talon mentions a bunch of weapons that the Empire and Republic are developing, including at least one from the JK story.

 

Sith War + Jedi Knight spoilers in 2nd paragraph!

 

Quote above is perfect example of small tiny referances I consider quite cool. It is healthy to get reminded sometimes how the characters actually exist in same Galaxy. It has been ages since I did Black Talon, something like this didn't make a blimp on my radar when I played through the 1st half of Jedi Knight story, thanks for pointing this out. There should be so much more stuff like this!

 

It would have been so terrifyingly cool if Wrath my Jedi Knight got stuck with would have been my former Sith War PC:o Ofc, such would have taken some moderately heavy rearranging of the storyline(s) but..not all that much. This makes a fine example of stuff I perhaps foolishly assumed TOR would be loaded with. This game could have used significant,big in-your-face intersections of your characters and their fates. I want to meet, speak with and (have option to) kill my former PCs :p Rerolling is TOR's strong forte. Everything encouraging player to do so is something TOR benefis from greatly. It is so strange class stories in no obvious way encourage you to do so.

Edited by Stradlin
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Kinda of a minor reference of no importance. But I thought it was cool how at the beginning of the Smuggler story line, someone refers to the recently shot down walker that the Trooper began in. Made me feel like my trooper was out there at that very moment.
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I've also been trying to figure out which story happens before which story, there are certainly clues and many have been mentioned here. Here are two in my mind.

 

Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior

 

The Jedi Knight meets, fights and comes to terms with the Emperor's Wrath. Since the Sith Warrior becomes the Emperor's Wrath, that has to happen after the first Wrath defects to the Republic in the JK story.

 

 

Jedi Knight and Imperial Operative

 

Late in the Jedi story, Doc arranges for Kaliyo to help, and she visits and mentions she is working for Nemro the Hutt. Since the Imperial Operative "liberates" Kaliyo from Nemro's service very early in that story, it means the Jedi story is definately before the Operative story.

 

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I

Jedi Knight and Imperial Operative

 

Late in the Jedi story, Doc arranges for Kaliyo to help, and she visits and mentions she is working for Nemro the Hutt. Since the Imperial Operative "liberates" Kaliyo from Nemro's service very early in that story, it means the Jedi story is definately before the Operative story.

 

No, after chapter 2 kaliyo has to go to do some personal business. But it's the Skadge who is responsible for blowing up the Nem'ro. You get Skadge after Belsavis.

Edited by Varium
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