Well, this is one developer's feelings on the response

 

http://plenty-for-all.blogspot.com/2013/01/on-live-game-development.html?spref=tw

Well, this is one developer's feelings on the response

 

http://plenty-for-all.blogspot.com/2013/01/on-live-game-development.html?spref=tw

 

You know what helps avoid rage? Communication. It's the foundation of a healthy relationship!*

 

 

*Note: communication does not mean yelling

true....if they didn't have such a gag order on talking about Makeb for so long and were able to explain more about what is going in to it and why, these things probably wouldn't wouldn't rear their ugly heads.

 

Actually, who am I kidding. We'd still get all kinds of internet and media rage.

Edited January 14, 2013 by chuixupu

"The Gay Planet".

 

Really, people? REALLY? Not sure if I find this funny or sad at this point.

 

But hey, SWTOR made it to Fox news.

 

Haha, there will be like, what maybe 2 flirts.

 

"OMG there's like two gay people on this planet it's infested with gays!!"

I thought this particular article was quite amusing.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/swtor/star-wars-old-republics-gay-planet

 

Unfortunately there's little to be said about these readings. It has been an after thought. It has been under a gag order. It isn't going to fix the problem with companions. We are going to have to pay for that expansion. And it is only for high level characters.

 

Now of course there could be a bunch of reasons for it having happened this way, but the reality still is that it's one mistake after the other, all of which are rather marginalising. Unfortunate. The only hope I have is that this step will mean a change for the better for the future. But that is really only just a hope at this point.

 

 

The DA banter really is one of the things that make the game feel alive, and less static than other games. It's a nice feature, I do hope DA3 will continue it. As for SWTOR, I doubt we'll be seeing something like it. Another thing I liked about DA2 is that you can visit some parts of town at night. That'd also be nice in SWTOR, and more easily implemented than changing weather and live planet cycles.

The fox news scandal on Mass effect, only helped it, so I wonder what affect this will have.

I loved the DAO/DA2 dialogue as well, and yes I always imagined that Bethany and that girl you rescue from the crazy Templar and crazy-Anders in act 2 and help reunite her with Bethany, are in fact a couple. Hard to see that kind of dialogue in SWTOR though, since you only have one companion at a time, not two, but I guess they could have the occasional on-ship little scene or something.

 

There's something really good that hopefully will come out of this whole 'everybody dislikes the way they're doing things' backlash Bioware is getting, and that is that it is making it even MORE obvious what they should've done all along, and should do in the future. It was already mighty obvious, they could've looked at DA2, Skyrim, Fallout NV, DD, etc. but apparently they didn't. There's a reason why Skyrim was unfathomably popular and their romance system wasn't the slightest bit controversial, its because none of the characters are forced to be straight or gay, nobody is anything other than what you want them to be. If you want an all-straight world, you've got one. If you want an all-lesbian world, you've pretty much got one, etc. the idea of taking options away from players instead of giving players options is dumb at best. Everybody should be able to play and enjoy the game their own personal way, and most games nowadays give you that ability. There's no reason to pre-define any NPC's sexuality, all you're doing is taking fun away from people, whether its a few people or a lot of peope, why would you want to take fun away from anybody when its literally easier to give the fun to everybody? If they had just done it like Skyrim or DA2, let the players romance any LI they want, there would be no controversy. People vocally oppose adding SGRs to SWTOR because its seen as pandering to people other than them. Nobody vocally opposed SGRs in the other games, because they were done in a way that gave everybody what they wanted, right from the get go. Everybody had what they wanted, the ability to romance whoever they wanted, and they didn't really care that others had that same option. By doing things horribly, unfathomably wrong right from the get-go, the SWTOR folks stirred up a hornet's nest and are currently getting stung. The sooner they make all the LIs available to everybody the sooner the controversy will be gone. Its easy enough to do, and now they have more incentive than ever to do it.

The fox news scandal on Mass effect, only helped it, so I wonder what affect this will have.

My informed guess is, it will be just the same. Nothing new in that respect.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Lent_San

I never felt that all characters in DA2 were bi. To me they were all gay and lesbian except Isabella who's pansexual. What I like about DA2 is that it allows me to fill in their orientation, except for maybe Isabella.

 

No, it doesn't. You can fill in the orientation of every single companion except Isabela as "straight" if you like, but the game does not permit reading any of them as gay. To wit:

 

Anders, in every playthrough, will reference that time he slept with Isabela.

Anders will never so much as mention that attractive men are a possibility in his universe if Hawke is female, much less ever mention Karl.

Fenris, in every playthrough, will start up a FWB situation with Isabela in act 3 if neither is romanced, including in a situation where Hawke slept with either in act II but abandoned the romance.

Fenris will never so much as mention that attractive men are a possibility in his universe if male Hawke doesn't actively flirt with him.

Merrill, in every playthrough, will refer to the Qunari as "easy on the eyes" and flirt with Carver, if Carver is alive.

Merrill will never so much as mention that attractive women are a possibility in her universe if female Hawke doesn't actively flirt with her.

 

If there's one saving grace of the comparatively shallow characterization of SWTOR companions, who largely come without histories or unprompted sex drives, it's that there's relatively little room for that kind of heteronormative hand-holding.

No, it doesn't. You can fill in the orientation of every single companion except Isabela as "straight" if you like, but the game does not permit reading any of them as gay. To wit:

 

Anders, in every playthrough, will reference that time he slept with Isabela.

Anders will never so much as mention that attractive men are a possibility in his universe if Hawke is female, much less ever mention Karl.

Fenris, in every playthrough, will start up a FWB situation with Isabela in act 3 if neither is romanced, including in a situation where Hawke slept with either in act II but abandoned the romance.

Fenris will never so much as mention that attractive men are a possibility in his universe if male Hawke doesn't actively flirt with him.

Merrill, in every playthrough, will refer to the Qunari as "easy on the eyes" and flirt with Carver, if Carver is alive.

Merrill will never so much as mention that attractive women are a possibility in her universe if female Hawke doesn't actively flirt with her.

 

If there's one saving grace of the comparatively shallow characterization of SWTOR companions, who largely come without histories or unprompted sex drives, it's that there's relatively little room for that kind of heteronormative hand-holding.

 

You clearly had very different playthroughs. I always end up flirting with Fenris, he's just too cute. Anders always hits on my male characters. I've never heard Merrill comment on the Qunari. Not that that'd matter much lol.

Aveline needs to be helped on a date though. But every time that happens I'm like, girl, you're the butchest of butches, I'll help you give men another try, he sure does look like a kitten, but why don't you give Merrill a go, I know you'd be happier and that poor elf needs a cougar. That'll keep her from using too much blood magic, and lighten you up a bit, you sure don't want to end up like Sebastian.

I'm very sure though about Bethany and Isabela's banter. It always amuses me. I love Isabela, she's just awesome.

I think the game permits just about any to be read the way you want to read them. That they're herosexual sure helps in that regard.

I don't understand how, by adding SGRA to a new planet, Bioware is segregating gay characters to only one planet. Did people expect them to rewrite the whole story with SGR [Flirt] options? As far as I can tell, they're doing it on Makeb only right now because they've been writing it into the new content. It's not a ploy against the homosexual community to ship them off to a random Hutt world, as the media is sensationalizing it to be.

 

And it's not a "planet of only gay characters"... Guys, c'mon...

Did people expect them to rewrite the whole story with SGR [Flirt] options?

 

'Expect'? I don't know, that's down to individual interpretation I suppose. I'd like them to, personally. I can't see any way they're going to maintain even a pretence of equal representation if they don't adjust content from base for both non-companion Flirts and companion SGRAs. Equal representation requires representation to be, you know, equal.

I don't understand how, by adding SGRA to a new planet, Bioware is segregating gay characters to only one planet. Did people expect them to rewrite the whole story with SGR [Flirt] options? As far as I can tell, they're doing it on Makeb only right now because they've been writing it into the new content. It's not a ploy against the homosexual community to ship them off to a random Hutt world, as the media is sensationalizing it to be.

 

And it's not a "planet of only gay characters"... Guys, c'mon...

In the long run I sure expect them to adjust some of the pre 50 content to include SGRAs.

 

But since this will take quite some work I don´t expect it happening before chapter 4 for the class stories come out.

I see Makeb as a first step, that was easy to make, but definatly not as the finish line.

You clearly had very different playthroughs. I always end up flirting with Fenris, he's just too cute. Anders always hits on my male characters. I've never heard Merrill comment on the Qunari. Not that that'd matter much lol.

Aveline needs to be helped on a date though. But every time that happens I'm like, girl, you're the butchest of butches, I'll help you give men another try, he sure does look like a kitten, but why don't you give Merrill a go, I know you'd be happier and that poor elf needs a cougar. That'll keep her from using too much blood magic, and lighten you up a bit, you sure don't want to end up like Sebastian.

I'm very sure though about Bethany and Isabela's banter. It always amuses me. I love Isabela, she's just awesome.

I think the game permits just about any to be read the way you want to read them. That they're herosexual sure helps in that regard.

 

Except, Aveline isn't herosexual. She's straight, she turns Hawke down no matter what gender you are. She had a male fiancee when you meet her, and she gets into another relationship with a man later in the game.

 

On a related note, Fox News is terrible. The Jim Sterling article I did quite enjoy though. I've warmed up to him over the past year or so.

Definitely excited over SGR, why you ask? Cause I'm going to save money. The demand for same gender relationships is trash. That's not what SW is about.... I believe bioware delving into politics and social issues outside of the SW lore is outright crazy. This story wasn't created to be a tool for that. The story is a hero story, one that triumphs over overwhelming odds that is the empire. Sorry I don't remember Vader wearing pumps in the original trilogy. And before you go nuts on me for saying I'm anti-gay (which I'm not, I just laugh at all these fools who believe in love) or some other hate speech, look at yourself; you probably call yourself tolerant. That tolerance probably only lasts up until you meet someone differing from the views that you hold dear. With that being said, since Bioware has decided to take the same steps of Lucas and distort what was a great story, I shall remove my financial support once this feature is implemented.

Definitely excited over SGR, why you ask? Cause I'm going to save money. The demand for same gender relationships is trash. That's not what SW is about.... I believe bioware delving into politics and social issues outside of the SW lore is outright crazy. This story wasn't created to be a tool for that. The story is a hero story, one that triumphs over overwhelming odds that is the empire. Sorry I don't remember Vader wearing pumps in the original trilogy. And before you go nuts on me for saying I'm anti-gay (which I'm not, I just laugh at all these fools who believe in love) or some other hate speech, look at yourself; you probably call yourself tolerant. That tolerance probably only lasts up until you meet someone differing from the views that you hold dear. With that being said, since Bioware has decided to take the same steps of Lucas and distort what was a great story, I shall remove my financial support once this feature is implemented.

 

Wrong thread. Take this to the Suggestion Box.

 

You're off-topic.

I can't think of anything political about flirting and romance in a video game. But then some people see Jesus in a tortilla, I can't stop them from framing it and selling it on ebay.

 

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

On the bright side, getting bumps is good.

'Expect'? I don't know, that's down to individual interpretation I suppose. I'd like them to, personally. I can't see any way they're going to maintain even a pretence of equal representation if they don't adjust content from base for both non-companion Flirts and companion SGRAs. Equal representation requires representation to be, you know, equal.

 

I'm sure they'll gradually balance it out over a few years, but I imagine that rerecording certain dialogue options and writing new lines throughout the entire story will take a LONG time.

Well, all the developers comments I've seen in Twitter and what not seems to indicate to me that they at least plan on adding more, and this is just a start. It'll depend a lot on how well the game holds up financially and all that. I'm kind of excited at the prospect of them being able to go back and perhaps re-edit more of the things in that they originally envisioned. That one article where they mentioned that some devs actually cried because their feature didn't make launch always intrigued me a bit. I would't go so far as to actually expect this kind of work to go in though, just hope.

 

I think it's true that they just didn't have the means to work on existing companions at this time, and what they're doing on Makeb is an honest gesture to get it started, unfortunately because of a lot of different factors it just ends up looking less than awesome for those who have been waiting for the feature. And these news articles aren't helping, though maybe they aren't such a bad thing either.

 

Edit: speaking of communication http://plenty-for-all.blogspot.com/2013/01/gamers-and-developers-love-story.html?spref=tw

Edited January 15, 2013 by chuixupu

Definitely excited over SGR, why you ask? Cause I'm going to save money. The demand for same gender relationships is trash. That's not what SW is about.... I believe bioware delving into politics and social issues outside of the SW lore is outright crazy. This story wasn't created to be a tool for that. The story is a hero story, one that triumphs over overwhelming odds that is the empire. Sorry I don't remember Vader wearing pumps in the original trilogy. And before you go nuts on me for saying I'm anti-gay (which I'm not, I just laugh at all these fools who believe in love) or some other hate speech, look at yourself; you probably call yourself tolerant. That tolerance probably only lasts up until you meet someone differing from the views that you hold dear. With that being said, since Bioware has decided to take the same steps of Lucas and distort what was a great story, I shall remove my financial support once this feature is implemented.

 

I don't see anything political about it.

Edit: speaking of communication http://plenty-for-all.blogspot.com/2013/01/gamers-and-developers-love-story.html?spref=tw

 

A lot of good points but one sticks out: 'say nice things.' We tried that. For a long time we tried nice things. It got us exactly nothing. We only got one question answered at the Summit because it was sprung on the dev team.

 

No, I don't think they're out to get us, nor that they're inherently homophobic or even bad people. I'm sure they were overwhelmed at what it takes to run an MMO and underestimated the scope of their project - but communication with the pro-SGRA crowd was horribly mismanaged and there's no way around that.

No, I don't think they're out to get us, nor that they're inherently homophobic or even bad people. I'm sure they were overwhelmed at what it takes to run an MMO and underestimated the scope of their project - but communication with the pro-SGRA crowd was horribly mismanaged and there's no way around that.

 

Actually they're doing a good job of ignoring that their own horrible inability to communicate to or acknowledge their customers, which is a pretty easy of getting around the fact that they have horrible communication and don't really acknowledge their customers. Bioware were merely exceptional in their handling of the SGRA topic - truly stunning.

 

There's no incentive to be nice someone who ignores you and passively allows others to demean and bully you. Joveth's reaction to the idea of getting baked goods says a lot of how Bioware treats this topic, I think.

 

It's also terribly nice of them to continue posting in here and discussing with us what's happening with the SGR [Flirt]s on Makeb, though. Really appreciate all your information, Bioware. You're doing a great job. I am in awe.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Tatile

A lot of good points but one sticks out: 'say nice things.' We tried that. For a long time we tried nice things. It got us exactly nothing. We only got one question answered at the Summit because it was sprung on the dev team.

No, I don't think they're out to get us, nor that they're inherently homophobic or even bad people. I'm sure they were overwhelmed at what it takes to run an MMO and underestimated the scope of their project - but communication with the pro-SGRA crowd was horribly mismanaged and there's no way around that.

 

I see it was a great idea to type out a response to this while the forums were going down. *coughs* Thoughtful, well articulated post gone. Now what was it I wanted to say?...

 

I agree with the mismanagement of communication. I think this was a root cause for this issue to "explode" like it did, and not only with pro-SGR people but anti-SGR people as well.

 

Basically it's usually not only gamers disappointed with implemented or announced content making a fuss, but also other gamers who don't belong to that particular fraction, trying to fan the flames, under the motto "If they get what they wanted and I don't (no matter whether it was announced a long time ago), I'm sure as heck gonna make them all feel miserable and bad for it." We've seen that happen often enough during the past few days, unfortunately.

 

I think the internet, or rather open boards and forums, are really not the best communication tools for mature communication between devs and gamers.

Due to ressources being limited, people constantly have the feeling of having to compete with others for the dev's attention. That creates noise in itself. Mix a misplaced gag order in there, and you have a conspiracy theory at hand that's hard to get back on track once it's out there.

 

I think what we must strive for is more open communication. Maybe investing into other communication tools, other than public forums and marketing research.

 

On the internets, unfortunately, we sometimes turn into our own three-year old selves, while in the real world we're sensible and reasonable people, well capable of constructive and thoughtful discussion. I guess that applies to gamers and devs alike.

 

My first post was better, but now I'm running out of time. Meh.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Lent_San

At this point I'd like it if Bioware would do something to clear the bad air - just open up and talk about why they had such crappy communication on this subject in particular, why they decided it wasn't important enough to actually develop at the same time as OGRA's (because obviously, that decision was made) and why they felt that a gag order was necessary.

 

Never going to happen, of course. That would be the mature and responsible thing to do.