I have been wondering since Bioware said Commandos have "escape" issues. The Vanguard gets this ability in the tactics tree:

http://www.torhead.com/ability/dwDvcYb/hold-the-line

Would adding this to the Gunnery tree help bring Commandos back from extinction.

I have been wondering since Bioware said Commandos have "escape" issues. The Vanguard gets this ability in the tactics tree:

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/dwDvcYb/hold-the-line

 

Would adding this to the Gunnery tree help bring Commandos back from extinction.

It should be low on the tree, so non-gunnery commandos can has, or perhaps make it a natural skill. I don't know that this really fixes the issue however. I think BW is right in thinking commandos/mercs need more tools to stay out of meele range.

No, immunity to roots needs to be rare. A ranged class can still DPS while it is rooted or snared. Mercs don't need it and they shouldn't get it.

Currently AP PT, with full resolve and hydraulic overrides is the only class in the game that can ignore any form of control and it needs to stay this way. Mercs already got a tech/physical cleanse, with some of the roots like legshot being physical, you are already in a good shape against some control.

As an assault spec vanguard, I agree with making this a baseline ability for the Trooper class. While I am dreaming, after they do that they can replace HtL in the Tactics tree with a skill that allows Pulse Cannon ticks to reset the CD on Fire Pulse.

Back on topic...I think what they need more is their own version of Leg Shot. Or as one of the threads out there has suggested, a way to cast on the move for a brief time on a relatively short (<1m) CD.

It should be low on the tree, so non-gunnery commandos can has, or perhaps make it a natural skill. I don't know that this really fixes the issue however. I think BW is right in thinking commandos/mercs need more tools to stay out of meele range.

It's only part of the issue... just compare it to Sorc, which has:

- Hard Stun

- 50% Slow

- Speedboost

- Pushback (incl. 5 sec root if specced)

- Stun Bubble (if specced)

Which makes it a fully viable PvP class with great kiting ability.

Commando has:

- Hard Stun

- Pushback (incl. 50% slow)

- 30% Slow (if specced AND only if Plasma Cell procs)

i.e. Commandos need some sort of Speedboost to run away and the equivalent of a Stun Bubble to bring them roughly on par with the escape abilities of a Sorc.

2 of those sorc abilities, are pretty high up in lightning tree, which is overall a useless skill tree. Hybrids that go into it that high, are jack of all trades, masters of none. Chain lightning offers some AoE, but that's about it, with some horrible proccing mechanism and horribly long activation time.

If you go full lightning, you are just as useless as an arsenal merc.

2 of those sorc abilities, are pretty high up in lightning tree, which is overall a useless skill tree. Hybrids that go into it that high, are jack of all trades, masters of none. Chain lightning offers some AoE, but that's about it, with some horrible proccing mechanism and horribly long activation time.

 

If you go full lightning, you are just as useless as an arsenal merc.

True, but there are viable hybrid builds which you can play as a Sorc using those tools, there is no such thing for a Commando.

Oh and I forgot another thing:

Sorc: Pretty amazing instaheal on a 30 second cooldown.

Commando: Pretty useless heal-over-time on a 3 minute cooldown.

it would not help. merc/commado do not have issues with "escapability"

we have issues with getting damage out under pressure. we have no way to resist interrupts.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=562010

It's only part of the issue... just compare it to Sorc, which has:

 

- Hard Stun

- 50% Slow

- Speedboost

- Pushback (incl. 5 sec root if specced)

- Stun Bubble (if specced)

 

Which makes it a fully viable PvP class with great kiting ability.

 

Commando has:

 

- Hard Stun

- Pushback (incl. 50% slow)

- 30% Slow (if specced AND only if Plasma Cell procs)

 

i.e. Commandos need some sort of Speedboost to run away and the equivalent of a Stun Bubble to bring them roughly on par with the escape abilities of a Sorc.

I agree. The knockback is good, but its long CD means all a knight/warrior has to do is save the force leap for after the knockback.

it would not help. merc/commado do not have issues with "escapability"

 

we have issues with getting damage out under pressure. we have no way to resist interrupts.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=562010

How can u say we have no escape problems%??? If the target is full resolve what can u do, we got only rocket punch root which sucks hard compared to legshot(sniper), sorc hits force speed, operative in combat stealth and merc can't do anything but take a beating, if ur facing a spec like annihilation, adv prototype(6 sec cd on interrupts) u can type /unstuck saves time

How can u say we have no escape problems%??? If the target is full resolve what can u do, we got only rocket punch root which sucks hard compared to legshot(sniper), sorc hits force speed, operative in combat stealth and merc can't do anything but take a beating, if ur facing a spec like annihilation, adv prototype(6 sec cd on interrupts) u can type /unstuck saves time

if youre trying to run away, you probably shouldnt have given your opponent full resolve?

operative is melee-hybrid class, good job comparing that to a ranged class.

the number 1 problem with Merc is that we have no way to maintain DPS output when attacked by melee opponents. you can run around all day with burst runs or whatever, but that doesnt address the root of the problem.

I have been wondering since Bioware said Commandos have "escape" issues. The Vanguard gets this ability in the tactics tree:

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/dwDvcYb/hold-the-line

 

Would adding this to the Gunnery tree help bring Commandos back from extinction.

if Gunnery gets HtL, can Tactics haz Storm + HtL?

How can u say we have no escape problems%??? If the target is full resolve what can u do, we got only rocket punch root which sucks hard compared to legshot(sniper), sorc hits force speed, operative in combat stealth and merc can't do anything but take a beating, if ur facing a spec like annihilation, adv prototype(6 sec cd on interrupts) u can type /unstuck saves time

correction: legshot is a ranged attack. It often miss on tanks or just about anyone with defense bonus (like assassin deflection or saberward). If you miss your legshot, no root. Rocket punch is a tech attack which will only fail against force shrouded assassins.

if youre trying to run away, you probably shouldnt have given your opponent full resolve?

 

operative is melee-hybrid class, good job comparing that to a ranged class.

 

 

the number 1 problem with Merc is that we have no way to maintain DPS output when attacked by melee opponents. you can run around all day with burst runs or whatever, but that doesnt address the root of the problem.

Dude, you are playing the wrong class if you are asking for instacast abilities on a ranged burst DPS spec. if you are ranged, you either get instacast DoTs, or activated burst damage abilities. If you want to move and fully DPS, Sith Wariror forums are over there ----->

Arsenal/Gunnery could use a proc to allow for 2 instant tracer/grav.

There are many options for proc mechanics. Perhaps combining with "escape" abilities, i.e. after using RP w/root or successfully (hitting a target) using knockback. Join "escape mechanics" and added DPS mobility.

My opinion (not that it matters) is that escape isn't part of being DPS in the BH/Trooper class. I see the DPS trees in the ACs as fight to the death types, not escape/reset types.

if youre trying to run away, you probably shouldnt have given your opponent full resolve?

 

operative is melee-hybrid class, good job comparing that to a ranged class.

 

 

the number 1 problem with Merc is that we have no way to maintain DPS output when attacked by melee opponents. you can run around all day with burst runs or whatever, but that doesnt address the root of the problem.

2)the only reason i mentioned operative was to also remind u of the situation comparing the 3 healing classes to show u we re at the bottom there too for the same reason not just ranged dps it`s not that we don`t have the dmg or the heals

3)take a deep breath and Read the title again ,,Would "Hold the Line" Fix Commandos" it says commandos not gunnery spec, not assault spec but the AC in general.

@NoTomorrow yes i know legshot is RANGED 5 secs that`s the hole point of it being better then rocket punch MELEE 4sec even if it can miss its better then siting right next to a bomb that `s about to sma....i mean explode ofc...., whats the point of rocket punching a smasher

Dude, you are playing the wrong class if you are asking for instacast abilities on a ranged burst DPS spec. if you are ranged, you either get instacast DoTs, or activated burst damage abilities. If you want to move and fully DPS, Sith Wariror forums are over there ----->

rofl. you are delusional.

what i am asking for is a reactive proc mechanic that will allow Merc to maintain DPS output when attacked by melee opponents. the "run and gun" proc, as i have suggested, would be proc'd off of Rocket Punch, and would have a 15s internal cooldown. it would basically give you 3 charges of Power Surge.

it seems that you think i am asking for full instant cast abilties all the time? if what i proposed happened, the only time you would have any casted-instants is directly after using Rocket Punch on an opponent that has closed to melee range against you. every other time, you will be doing the normal thing and casting at range.

rofl. you are delusional.

 

what i am asking for is a reactive proc mechanic that will allow Merc to maintain DPS output when attacked by melee opponents. the "run and gun" proc, as i have suggested, would be proc'd off of Rocket Punch, and would have a 15s internal cooldown. it would basically give you 3 charges of Power Surge.

 

it seems that you think i am asking for full instant cast abilties all the time? if what i proposed happened, the only time you would have any casted-instants is directly after using Rocket Punch on an opponent that has closed to melee range against you. every other time, you will be doing the normal thing and casting at range.

with those melee jumping all arround and automatically leaping onto the first merc they see that is basically guaranteed free 3 instacast tracer missle + heatseeker every 15 seconds.On clumped maps like voidstar you will find youself in melee range pretty much most of the time.

It would not really help commandos. One of the reasons it works well with the vanguards/powertechs is because they have ion pulse/flame burst as an instant ability that can be used with a 10 m range, which helps them attack while short range kiting after you pop HtL/HO. If you actually try to escape after using it, you won't get very far (escpecially in 6 seconds, which is how long it lasts).

Commandos/Mercs can't get ion pulse/flame burst, so they would still be limited to a few moves on the run, like hammer shots/rapid shots and sticky grenade/explosive dart.

I like the threads in the merc forums that suggest a chance to proc being able to instant cast a few moves on the run. I honestly hope this is what they do, as long as they carefully put a timer on it so that it won't get overpowered.

The only other alternative I can think of is giving commandos a strong defensive cooldown (most would agree that energy shield/reactive shield kinda sucks), but even that would probably be overpowered when you have a healer commando/merc able to heal and pop a defensive cooldown, thus negating tons of damage.

I think a better solution than giving them "Hold the Line" would be to give Mercs/Commandos complete leap immunity. Like a sniper in cover, but constantly, even when running around and everything. It's just not possible to leap on them (only with Obliterate / Zealous Leap).

Melees would of course still totally faceroll a Commando, but it would be much rarer since they would actually have to walk there.

I think a better solution than giving them "Hold the Line" would be to give Mercs/Commandos complete leap immunity. Like a sniper in cover, but constantly, even when running around and everything. It's just not possible to leap on them (only with Obliterate / Zealous Leap).

 

Melees would of course still totally faceroll a Commando, but it would be much rarer since they would actually have to walk there.

In this case you would have to take away all their knockbacks.

In this case you would have to take away all their knockbacks.

I don't think so. They only have 1 on a 30 second cooldown...

More than enough for a melee to walk back there, even if slowed.

I think a better solution than giving them "Hold the Line" would be to give Mercs/Commandos complete leap immunity. Like a sniper in cover, but constantly, even when running around and everything. It's just not possible to leap on them (only with Obliterate / Zealous Leap).

 

Melees would of course still totally faceroll a Commando, but it would be much rarer since they would actually have to walk there.

A) Give cover benefits to another class and why be a sniper?

B) The downside of the cover mechanic is lack of mobility, so you essentially want all the perks without the drawbacks.