Introduction

Good afternoon PvP'ers,

I'm here to represent the PvP community to see if we can come to terms about the issues with PvP's Bolster and accept this solution: to remove Bolster from Level 55 PvP – both from regs and Ranked – and replace them with MOD-ABLE Recruit Gear.

Issues with Bolster in Endgame PvP

Ever since 2.0 (and pre-2.0 within the PTS) Bolster has shown to be more of a hindrance than an asset. PvP'ing naked, equipping Green implants and gear; both of these bugs/exploits were introduced because of a faulty Bolster that the developers failed to code correctly. Even the PvP'ers in the PTS warned the devs that they'd be launching 2.0 unfinished, and that Bolster would need to be patched for the expansion – and yet they never listened to the feedback of their testers and continued as planned.

There were also other bugs/exploits; such as the enhancement exploit, and I believe wearing some form of top tier PvE gear that was better than Partisan. Feel free to correct me or add some more Bolster bugs/exploits that you can remember (I've been here since pre-launch but my memory is quite rusty), but the fact is is that Bolster is just plain not working. The developers can't seem to get it right with Bolster, and whatever they us about Bolster – like the letter from the "Combat team" – already tells us everything we've already discussed and know of about Bolster.

The main bug/exploit right now is that we have players in full 46s that get Bolstered to better stats than min/maxed Conq (and even Oboran!) or using endgame PvE MH/OH mods that are better than even Oboran min/maxed MH/OH weapons. You guys gave the PvP community your word that PvP gear is the best in Warzones, when that's simply just not true. It only is in WPvP, but WPvP is FUBAR'd that that doesn't even count.

Another thing is that we DO NOT need Bolster. At all. Whatsoever. The only reason why it's encouraged is due to casuals/PvE'ers who need this to have their hands held, to put it bluntly. It's common knowledge that BW is catering to these player-bases, but what they need to understand is that these types of players don't understand the PvP community, they don't understand how PvP works, and furthermore they're so minimally involved in PvP (and if they do any of it it's just as a supplementary thing or to get a BiS piece) that they shouldn't represent either the minority or the majority. They just shouldn't even factor into anything really.

Conclusion

So what I'm suggesting is that BioWare removes Bolster completely from endgame PvP – both from regs and Ranked – and make a set of modifiable "Recruit" gear for anyone starting out in PvP. Let it have its own vendor, and let it cost very little in either credits or PvP comms – or have it be free of charge! In addition, make the gear gap more than what the 1st tier (e.g. Conquerer) would be from the 2nd higher tier (e.g. Oboran), but don't make the stats so minimal that you can feel very inferior to someone in, let's say, min/maxed Conquerer-type of gear. You may feel at a slight disadvantage against a player in Oboran-type of gear, but I feel as if this small sacrifice is necessary in order to make PvP function better.

These casuals/PvE'ers need to start helping out themselves and need to start taking some responsibility here, and that is my other and final note that you need to understand, BioWare.

Any and all feedback is welcome (I know this is hypocritical of what I said earlier about different players, but I'll make an exception for this petition). I'm proud to be a representative of this community.

Thank you.

What about raiders? The issue last time wasnt just about the gear itself. Some have told me verbatim that they wouldn't wear it because of xyz reasons. That pretty much screws up the WZ for everyone..

Sadists... Way too many for any combination of this type of PVP gearing system to work.

I would go as far as to make entry level PVP gear trainable by crafting vendors. Make it blue quality and cap out expertise at 2018 and make it decent enough to be competitive as long as you have the full set.

Well the reason why I think it should be purple is so more people are encouraged to wear it. Then can put the mods from the "Recruit" gear into the modifiable armor they already have. No one would like to remove their Revan's Gear for plain, ugly blues. BW is highly known for making very hideous sets, most of which aren't provided in the CM but at your regular in-game vendors.

In all, modification > blues.

What about raiders? The issue last time wasnt just about the gear itself. Some have told me verbatim that they wouldn't wear it because of xyz reasons. That pretty much screws up the WZ for everyone..

 

Sadists... Way too many for any combination of this type of PVP gearing system to work.

Well they need to be accountable for this. We don't need Bolster because raiders, who prefer PvE over PvP, won't wear it for XYZ reasons. They aren't the ones going to the PTS queuing for WZs with other PvP'ers, and I can bet you they probably don't do Ranked at all. If they do the former, again, it's just a supplementary thing.

I'm sorry but IMO I just don't think "XYZ reasons" is good enough for an argument from their POV in this case. This is about making PvP gear BiS for PvP and from preventing these types of bugs/exploits from recurring in the future. In this case, the focus should be primarily on the PvP'ers and not the other types of players.

I think they should make a vendor with armorings, mods, enhancements, etc... of what would be the equivalent of "recurit gear" so people can still have the "look" they want, but be able to have an entry level set of pvp gear. Oh, and you could make the cost planetary comms so it's affordable when players hit 55.

I agree, I worked too hard getting my obroan gear to have the weapons be useless because you can buy the voss mods and they bolster WAY above obroan weapons.

I think they should make a vendor with armorings, mods, enhancements, etc... of what would be the equivalent of "recurit gear" so people can still have the "look" they want, but be able to have an entry level set of pvp gear

That's kind of what I'm saying.

Introduce a vendor of this caliber with "Recruit" gear vendors that sell modifiable "Recruit" gear pieces, and if the player wants to keep the look they want they can do so. They'll be able to enter Warzones and still be at a semi-competitive level, without having to figure out the mess that is Bolster, and all the while we won't have Bolster introducing these bugs/exploits.

However, if a player chooses not to do this, then that is their fault. They will be held responsible (e.g. like being killed in 2 GCDs), and they will know that the alternative to Bolster would be the "Recruit" gear that they can easily obtain at the "Recruit" gear vendor. If they want to go through the trouble of obtaining better PvP gear without using the help from the mods of the "Recruit" gear, then that's their problem. Bolster shouldn't have to baby them through PvP and PvP gear – which should be BiS for PvP – shouldn't have to suffer due to the bad coding of Bolster.

It would be a win/win, IMO.

They already tried this and gave away free 'Recruit' gear.

People would not wear it.

The forums were flooded with QQ's about it- You cannot fix stupid so the Devs side-stepped stupid by taking the 'choice' out of wearing recruit gear with bolster. The problem is... they made bolster too good, it should never have been as good as actually wearing pvp gear.

Knock the bonus down to ~1850 exp or less max on bolster and it would help overall.

Introduction

I'm here to represent the PvP community

Having you represent the pvp community is a sure-fire method of ensuring that no SWTOR employee will take us seriously. Just quit the game already. You are a nuisance to the forums.

What about raiders? The issue last time wasnt just about the gear itself. Some have told me verbatim that they wouldn't wear it because of xyz reasons. That pretty much screws up the WZ for everyone..

 

Sadists... Way too many for any combination of this type of PVP gearing system to work.

This is the reason why they will never abandon bolster. They could offer up gear that was as good as min/maxed conq but PvE players wouldn't wear it for whatever reasons like "i hate the look" or "I shouldn't need two sets of gear"...

They already tried this and gave away free 'Recruit' gear.

 

People would not wear it.

 

The forums were flooded with QQ's about it- You cannot fix stupid so the Devs side-stepped stupid by taking the 'choice' out of wearing recruit gear with bolster. The problem is... they made bolster too good, it should never have been as good as actually wearing pvp gear.

 

Knock the bonus down to ~1850 exp or less max on bolster and it would help overall.

People would still QQ about that, and still that would mean coding Bolster yet again, and that could again, introduce more Bolster bugs/exploits that many PvP'ers are sick of.

That's why I'm introducing this as an alternative. Just remove Bolster. I get it – from paper it's actually not that bad of an idea, but the execution is almost always flawed.

Having you represent the pvp community is a sure-fire method of ensuring that no SWTOR employee will take us seriously. Just quit the game already. You are a nuisance to the forums.

teclado, Belsavis just called, they want their dailies done

Honestly they just need to take a look at the bolster system used by Rift. REPLACE the stats of all non-pvp gear pieces with the default stats of Conqueror gear. No bolstering based on mod level, or expertise value. Just plain replace the stats with Conqueror stats. This gives everyone a fair baseline to start at.

Don't like the base stats? Want to augment your gear? Want to Min/Max your gear? Good! Then PvP, earn those Conqueror pieces and change out the mods and augment them with your preferred stat priority. Then upgrade your gear to Obroan level and do the same. This allows people to customize their stats if they want, but also not be at a potential HUGE disadvantage for not understanding the bolstering system. It would also prevent the recurring bolster exploits by using low level mods.

This is the way Rift handles PvP gear and it works very well IMO. It would be easy to detect by looking at the expertise values of the item modifications. 3x Expertise modifications? No "Bolstering". Trying to cheat the system by using 2x Expertise mods and a top-tier PvE armor/hilt piece? Gear set to baseline Conqueror stats.

Honestly it's really sad getting in Warzones and seeing people with 1500/1600 expertise because they have Oricon gear and crafted purples. Most don't know that their gear is hurting them, and don't seem to understand why either.

Well the reason why I think it should be purple is so more people are encouraged to wear it. Then can put the mods from the "Recruit" gear into the modifiable armor they already have. No one would like to remove their Revan's Gear for plain, ugly blues. BW is highly known for making very hideous sets, most of which aren't provided in the CM but at your regular in-game vendors.

 

In all, modification > blues.

 

 

Well they need to be accountable for this. We don't need Bolster because raiders, who prefer PvE over PvP, won't wear it for XYZ reasons. They aren't the ones going to the PTS queuing for WZs with other PvP'ers, and I can bet you they probably don't do Ranked at all. If they do the former, again, it's just a supplementary thing.

 

I'm sorry but IMO I just don't think "XYZ reasons" is good enough for an argument from their POV in this case. This is about making PvP gear BiS for PvP and from preventing these types of bugs/exploits from recurring in the future. In this case, the focus should be primarily on the PvP'ers and not the other types of players.

Well I guess this is where we differ. The focus shouldn't be on PvPers specifically. Bolster is a failsafe to assure the stat integrity of WZs regardless of what gear you are wearing OR what your choosen path has been to date. As soon as you ask players to have some responsibility to learn and actually gear for PvP the response you get is, "don't tell me how to play." In the end, PvP gear needs to be eliminated or reworked so it operates outside of bolster calcs, like augments do. Then we will have a bolster baseline, and small adds of EXP as some PVP gearing progression..

That way PvP is still user friendly, but the hardcore get some PvP specific gear that will no doubt be BiS...

Well I guess this is where we differ. The focus shouldn't be on PvPers specifically. Bolster is a failsafe to assure the stat integrity of WZs regardless of what gear you are wearing OR what your choosen path has been to date. As soon as you ask players to have some responsibility to learn and actually gear for PvP the response you get is, "don't tell me how to play." In the end, PvP gear needs to be eliminated or reworked so it operates outside of bolster calcs, like augments do. Then we will have a bolster baseline, and small adds of EXP as some PVP gearing progression..

 

That way PvP is still user friendly, but the hardcore get some PvP specific gear that will no doubt be BiS...

I miss getting yelled at for telling...recommending someone to put on recruit gear.

On a side note, the reason I don't think this will gain much traction is because its already been tried, and BW rarely reverts changes for issues like this... With that in mind, here is my alternative proposal I added about a week ago...

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=719106

I miss getting yelled at for telling...recommending someone to put on recruit gear.

I was pretty much told to f-off by PvE players a few weeks ago, when I explained their raid gear was a huge nerf in PvP.

What I'm trying to do is remove any and all kinds of Bolstering, while at the same time proving the 1st method we had of having baseline PvP stats. At the same time, BW will not choose to make their Expertise system nonviable by removing PvP gear (or doing anything similar to that) because the bottom line is that they want progression to last longer. If they cut off PvP gear or do something similar, it would be easier to "complete" this game.

Anyways, I think this is the best method of going about this because we'll avoid any future bugs/exploits Bolster brings to us, while at the same time providing an easy and customizable method of introducing baseline-stat "Recruit" gear. You'll be "bolstered" to a semi-competitive level, but it'll be from mods of "Recruit" gear that you can place into any other set in the game. It'll be cheap, quick and easy.

The only coding BW will have to do is making some (lazy) Recruit modifiable sets with a certain amount of PvP stats to them, and adding these vendors each time a new major patch comes along that will bring along a new tier of PvP gear. I think it's less time-consuming than trying to "fix" Bolster, and in general will make PvP'ers happy that their PvP gear is BiS for PvP. No PvE'er can use 46s or their raid gear. They will have to PvP, just as a PvP'er needs to PvE for competitive PvE gear.

I'm just sick of these bugs/exploits and so are most other PvP'ers. This is much less work for BW to do, and the only drawback is that we'll have PvE'ers/casuals QQ'ing. This is just something that they'll need to adapt to, because for almost a year now PvP'ers have been trying to adapt to Bolster and it's just not working because BW A) can't get it right B) doesn't "fix" the problem only until way later when almost everyone's abusing it.

Or check out the suggestion I posted a few weeks ago: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=716675

Basically:

o Remove "debolstering" effects

o Remove Expertise

o Unranked would still get up-bolstering effects

o Remove PVP gear pieces, replace Conq with Basic, Orbroan with Elite

o Alter all gear over (say) 72P to actually be 72P

o Add "Operations" gear bonuses that only apply in operations (so add stats taken from "base" gear that was just capped at, say, 72P)

Obviously, more could be done to tweak the system (making a wider variety of gear pieces at a given level available, like with PVP mods and enhancements, so that players could still tailor gear builds for their primary usage -- less accuracy on PVP, etc.)

I was pretty much told to f-off by PvE players a few weeks ago, when I explained their raid gear was a huge nerf in PvP.

Yeah I got *****ed at for telling someone to remove their champion gear a few weeks ago myself.

Yeah I got *****ed at for telling someone to remove their champion gear a few weeks ago myself.

I described the 46 mods scheme to a guy prematch and luls were had by all, since nothing so stupid could be ING.

I described the 46 mods scheme to a guy prematch and luls were had by all, since nothing so stupid could be ING.

I think it was for the Lulz that Bioware implemented bolster.

I think it was for the Lulz that Bioware implemented bolster.

Im coming from an european server. And the group of people who are using this exploit is rising dramatically. I support that petition.

This is the reason why they will never abandon bolster. They could offer up gear that was as good as min/maxed conq but PvE players wouldn't wear it for whatever reasons like "i hate the look" or "I shouldn't need two sets of gear"...

so they get thrashed in WZs and hurt their team. how is that any different from the way they play now? anyone who thinks this can't possibly be of any use in a WZ...can he?

This is the reason why they will never abandon bolster. They could offer up gear that was as good as min/maxed conq but PvE players wouldn't wear it for whatever reasons like "i hate the look" or "I shouldn't need two sets of gear"...

PVE players still need two sets of gear with bolster right now. Bolster absolutely shreds anyone who enters in their raid gear (72s, 78s, etc). They are actually worse off than the old days of recruit gear. That is perhaps the most deceptive part of bolster: it lures PVEers into a false sense of security. It makes them think they can compete in whatever gear they want. The reality is they are rocking 800-1000 expertise. The moment I see a 37k HP Sage that becomes my target the entire game. Cannon fodder. My biggest hits ever. 11k rail shots.

So raiders already need a 2nd set of gear to compete. Might as well put a free set of gear on the vendors (lets say Partisan level) and remove bolster. Anyone who can't be bothered to put on their free PVP gear probably wasn't using bolster right anyway.

so they get thrashed in WZs and hurt their team. how is that any different from the way they play now? anyone who thinks this can't possibly be of any use in a WZ...can he?

Yeah this goes back to something when recruit gear was a thing and that I said all the gear in the world will not make you a better player. Bad players get beat by better players, gear doesn't make a difference, being in a group doesn't make a difference.

PVE players still need two sets of gear with bolster right now. Bolster absolutely shreds anyone who enters in their raid gear (72s, 78s, etc). They are actually worse off than the old days of recruit gear. That is perhaps the most deceptive part of bolster: it lures PVEers into a false sense of security. It makes them think they can compete in whatever gear they want. The reality is they are rocking 800-1000 expertise. The moment I see a 37k HP Sage that becomes my target the entire game. Cannon fodder. My biggest hits ever. 11k rail shots.

Yeah but how many PvE players do you see in warzones nowadays rocking full PvE gear...I see plenty. Their perception is never going to change. That and because you get rewarded for losing with commendations and credit towards the daily/weekly they just queue up rocking w/e because they want the relics.