The decisions made by the development team since I have quit and returned to the game are just baffling.

In the beta we were told that marauders/sents were supposed to have a high skill cap. Early in the game there were very few GOOD annihilation/watchman players. There was nothing wrong with this. The buffs to carnage was good and it also at least takes some skill/thinking to play and to get off combos (all of which can be easily countered with a stun/or a accuracy debuff).

The buffs to rage on all JK/SW specs are flat out horrible. There is no reason a class can't have a "leveling spec". There is also no reason that abilities can't be different in pve/pvp. We have no cost to switch our spec as a subscriber. Smash already works different on standard/weak mobs. It can be altered further as far as damage.

To make pvp even worse, and I have no idea who thought this was a good idea, we have AUTOMATIC CC (should never be in any game EVER) that can be put on multiple players (bubblestun). So you take one broken thing and replace it with another?

The only people happy with current pvp are FOTM rerollers who failed at annhilation/vengeance/tank hybrid/carnage specs. This game had decent pvp at release.

The rage buff and bubble sorc specs simply removed the skill cap and completely ruined pvp. Dot trees have counters. Carnage/combat has counters. Scoundrel burst/control has counters. A PT pyro can have their accuracy taken away and is very glass cannon like. Everything in this game has counters (other then maybe tank sin in a duel, but who cares about duels in an MMO, where balance is impossible in 1 v 1). A hard switch/charge smash (if you don't even know what a hard switch is, then spare me your ideas about pvp) by multiple marauder/sents/jugs/jk's has no counter, when you play in an objective based game.

Yes it is EASY to avoid both on SOME Classes. The problem? You are making only ONE melee class viable as anything other then a tank in rateds. Other melee get screwed way more then smashers by the bubble stun spec.

I have played every class in this game now and in beta. Only two things stand out as absolutely absurd and both of these things were additions to pvp? How does this even happen. Better question? How is this not hotfixed. Scoundrels/agents were nerfed very quickly and that was before people even had gear. Pyro PT was nerfed. That was SINGLE TARGET DPS.

Hotfix this stuff now. You have done it with other classes. If you want us to shell out more money for an expansion, show us you have a clue. Many of us bought DD and CE editions, and kept our monthly sub for quite awhile. We come back to give the game another chance and the pvp is now WORSE then it was in the past?

yes, it is another one of these "fix smash/bubble" threads. This one actually has well articulated arguments though.

/sign

Well Powertechs/Vanguards have their AOE stun as a CC, just pointing that out, and I do not support bubble stuns, those damn things have give enough trouble as it is with how much they absorb.

Trust me pt/vanguards have very hard counters and add to that their tank AC is garbage in pvp compared to hybrid SW/Sin. Are they too easy to play? Maybe. I can absolutely obliterate that class on a sniper/op/marauder (don't even need rage spec) though

Also you are comparing apples to oranges. One is a automatic team stun, the other is a short range/short stun on a cooldown.

i don't care

What a coincidence. I don't care about SWG. Guess that means something we have in common?

Now go post about not having chat bubbles. This is the pvp forum.

What a coincidence. I don't care about SWG. Guess that means something we have in common?

 

Now go post about not having chat bubbles. This is the pvp forum.

i said i don't care for another post qq'ing about lolsmashmonkeys wich in fact are only considered op in normal WZ's.

and btw...l2sarcasm

The state of PVP has given BW 14 days remaining on my sub. I wouldn't call it PVP anymore, more like PVBW.

BW broke it, they either can't or won't fix it, since it doens't fit into their F2P "cash" model...

i said i don't care for another post qq'ing about lolsmashmonkeys wich in fact are only considered op in normal WZ's.

and btw...l2sarcasm

Joining a ranked warzones doesn't mean you know what you are doing. In fact realms have banned the use of both smash and bubble sorc in matches. It is not my fault you don't know what a hard target switch is.

Combat/carnage can be completely nullified by a knock back on a channeled ability. The dot specs of both trees can be nullified by cleanse.

There is no strategy to counter a hard switch multismash. Add to that? This game forces you to stand together at times. If the only WZ was huttball it would be different.

I main a marauder. I loved this class...until it let people like you play it with success and then claim it was in anyway balanced, challenging or even fun. Add to that? Bubble sorc was put in to helpy "nullify it". All that accomplished was screwing over the other melee ac's in this game.

That is why you don't see non tank sins in a WZ, or DPS op's/scoundrels.

You are suggesting that one stupid AC that was added after extensive testing is perfectly fine, when it isn't, and then accusing people of "crying" when they don't agree with you. I find that laughable. Anyone who can justify the highest dmg abilty being an AOE is simply insane.

It A) puts to much pressure on healers. B) When done in sync is an auto kill on at LEAST one person. C) Is stupidly OP on many of the warzones which require you to stand in one spot often.

You can't argue any of these things, so all you do is reply with stupidity. I guess if I had no argument I might do the same.

This may come as a news flash to you but melee are required to stand next to the person they are hitting. This may be a mind blowing concept to you, but if you played more then one class, you might have some clue as to what you are talking about.

 

Also seeing that the only challenging classes in this game whatsoever are the dot specced marauder/sent (even combat/carnage is leaps and bounds harder then the other ac's in this game) and sniper, you again have no idea what you are talking about. You probably rolled one of these classes and thought that they were as simple as your class. However they actually get more abilities past level 20.

 

Noone I know is going to buy this expansion unless bubblestun is removed. There is NOTHING fun for veteran MMO players about playing a ranged class where you don't even have to hit hotkeys and move at the same time.

 

If this isn't hotfixed in the next month? I will unsub. It is an absolute joke that

A) someone thought team AUTOMATIC cc was a good idea

B) they thought, hey let's not make it break on dmg

C) Let's have it unaffected by resolve

Why not save yourself the trouble and do it now?

Why not save yourself the trouble and do it now?

Because I actually bought this game unlike most of the people defending this crap. You see I like Bioware. EA? Well that explains some of the changes.

Instead of fixing a memory leak (that was present in beta) and balancing and fixing pvp in 2 easy steps? We have cartel market changes in every patch notes/

I also beta tested this game and saw pvp as much more balanced then it is now at RELEASE (which is a joke).

We saw other classes get nerfed before people even hit 50, based on sub 50's playing 50's in champion gear, and yet we can't get a hotfix on something the developer admitted was BROKEN in an interview?

The dev even knows it's broken. I guess I am supposed to come back here and call you all "whiners/crybabies" when the nerf hits right?

Some realms have even banned the use of smash/bubblestun in rateds (enforced by the players). That is how bad it has gotten.

The players are asking for a hotfix for something the dev has said is broken. That isn't crying. That is wanting to save myself months of garbage pvp, waiting for pve content which I could care less about, and cartel outfits which I could care less about.

Why don't you people call the developer a crybaby as well? You act as if this is a hard fix. It's not. SW/JK has two other viable trees/specs in pvp (one is slightly better). Not all AC's even have TWO viable trees. Take PT/Vanguard. They have ONE viable spec and people are calling for nerfs on that spec (probably the same people trying to defend something the devs have admitted is broken).

I am someone who tested these classes, and says one of my trees is stupidly OP. That isn't crying. That is the voice of reason...

I actually agree with this. I don't think BW is properly prioritizing the work that needs to be done for this game, for me at least; however, I'm not aware of the market spread of users - it might be true that the majority of users do not participate in PvP that often so that department has less staff. Even if that's true, it shouldn't require much work to have a discussion about the state of PvP and what changes should be made, and then (here is the key part), communicate that change to the PvP community so we can decide if we want to stick around.

About this issue specifically, I do think that Smash/Force Sweep needs some tuning in that, as the OP said, hard switches and coordinated burst with these abilities are very difficult to counter and that makes classes with those abilities essential to winning RWZ groups and excluding any other melee class. It reminds me of WoW:BC when any class that couldn't CC/tank/heal never got invited to 5mans.

Because I actually bought this game unlike most of the people defending this crap. You see I like Bioware. EA? Well that explains some of the changes.

 

Instead of fixing a memory leak (that was present in beta) and balancing and fixing pvp in 2 easy steps? We have cartel market changes in every patch notes/

 

I also beta tested this game and saw pvp as much more balanced then it is now at RELEASE (which is a joke).

 

We saw other classes get nerfed before people even hit 50, based on sub 50's playing 50's in champion gear, and yet we can't get a hotfix on something the developer admitted was BROKEN in an interview?

 

The dev even knows it's broken. I guess I am supposed to come back here and call you all "whiners/crybabies" when the nerf hits right?

 

Some realms have even banned the use of smash/bubblestun in rateds (enforced by the players). That is how bad it has gotten.

 

The players are asking for a hotfix for something the dev has said is broken. That isn't crying. That is wanting to save myself months of garbage pvp, waiting for pve content which I could care less about, and cartel outfits which I could care less about.

 

Why don't you people call the developer a crybaby as well? You act as if this is a hard fix. It's not. SW/JK has two other viable trees/specs in pvp (one is slightly better). Not all AC's even have TWO viable trees. Take PT/Vanguard. They have ONE viable spec and people are calling for nerfs on that spec (probably the same people trying to defend something the devs have admitted is broken).

 

I am someone who tested these classes, and says one of my trees is stupidly OP. That isn't crying. That is the voice of reason...

I agree with so much of this. Well stated!!!

Ops/Scoundrel nerfs...well lets see why they were nerfed in the first place. The damage they were doing back then (about a year ago at this point) is on par to what rage is doing right now and slightly better (single target rather than AOE). Rage hits like a wet noodle outside of smash, but these ops/scoundrels would have some combo that would literally kill you. I'd get hit in full plate for 7-9k on the last shot of that combo in full pvp gear...not scrub tier 1 gear, but FULL BM...add to that the fact that your life totals was way less and that was maybe 3/4 of your life and you can see why they nerfed Ops/Scoundresl...now you might say why is rage ok and not nerfed then? Honestly I don't know but I will point out that generally against anyone who is even remotely geared you will be lucky to break a 7k smash, they are generally high 4k-mid 6k depending on all the debuffs/taunts on you and your opponents gear...you only really get these obscene numbers reliably against fresh 50s. Add all the pvp gear progression they added and its not as bad as everyone makes it.

Overall, the OP complaining because before smash buffs, maraders was a "high skill cap" class and he was proud that he did well with it. Now that they made the class more accessible to put up decent numbers he doesnt feel as special anymore. Which is retarded. Good players will always outshine bad. Spec or class doesnt make you special, your skill does.

Ops/Scoundrel nerfs...well lets see why they were nerfed in the first place. The damage they were doing back then (about a year ago at this point) is on par to what rage is doing right now and slightly better (single target rather than AOE). Rage hits like a wet noodle outside of smash, but these ops/scoundrels would have some combo that would literally kill you. I'd get hit in full plate for 7-9k on the last shot of that combo in full pvp gear...not scrub tier 1 gear, but FULL BM...add to that the fact that your life totals was way less and that was maybe 3/4 of your life and you can see why they nerfed Ops/Scoundresl...now you might say why is rage ok and not nerfed then? Honestly I don't know but I will point out that generally against anyone who is even remotely geared you will be lucky to break a 7k smash, they are generally high 4k-mid 6k depending on all the debuffs/taunts on you and your opponents gear...you only really get these obscene numbers reliably against fresh 50s. Add all the pvp gear progression they added and its not as bad as everyone makes it.

 

Overall, the OP complaining because before smash buffs, maraders was a "high skill cap" class and he was proud that he did well with it. Now that they made the class more accessible to put up decent numbers he doesnt feel as special anymore. Which is retarded. Good players will always outshine bad. Spec or class doesnt make you special, your skill does.

Wrong. You seem to think marauder/sent was the first class I leveled, or that it is the only class I played, or that I don't enjoy playing carnage as well as annihilation.

I played a scoundrel/op as well. Liu-kang on the fatman server. I absolutely wrecked kids on my scoundrel. The most "broken" part of the class was adrenal/biochem/warzone stacking. Any burst class could so the same, it is just that most good sub rogues from WoW gravitated to the "sub rogue class", and actually started min/maxing long before everyone else, and at that point people had no idea that sniper's weren't that bad, or that PT pyro could single target burst your face off.

Am I saying that it didn't need a nerf? Not at all. I could solo cap against 4 people. They gave the class more control and toned down the burst. That was fine. Where scoundrels/ops got completely screwed, was when bubble stun was added. A class that relies on control/stunlocking being auto stunned on their opener? Defeats the whole purpose of a "rogue class", which is WHY team bubble stun was such an awful change. OP/scoundrel viability would go up 10 fold if bubblestun was removed, as would dps sins.

ATM it is hyrbid sins/smash/bubblesorc/other healer (usually scoundrel/op) and a carnage/combat marauder to run them around at 80 percent speed. No other classes really need apply. You can get by with other comps, but you are just outplaying the people who go the easy route. Just because you can succeed with an inferior comp, doesn't mean that another comp is not imbalanced. Hell I got a stupidly high arena ranking in WoW with a Elemental Shaman/Ret Pally at one point. We were the only people even playing the comp (2's mattered in that expansion). It was garbage. It was my friend though and I wanted to get him ranking weapons.

What we have here in SWTOR was a bad move in buffing the rage tree (when both SW trees were perfectly viable). and then trying to fix that by adding more CC to a game that has plenty of cc already. Both are wrong, both shouldn't be in the game. It is asinine that a target switch after "setting up singularity" (which is easy), hits harder then a stealth opener. What makes it even stupider is that it is an aoe. It also requires no positional requirement (being behind the target).

This is the easiest fix in the world...revert the changes. This isn't asking for a new game engine or anything. It is obvious that darn near the entire player base wants this fixed pronto. The only people that want to keep it, either A) have never played a melee, and don't realize just how stupid bubble stun is, or B) play the melee spec that bubble stun was supposed to help slow down.

There is nothing for Bioware/EA to lose from fixing this, and they risk alienating the hardcores who have stayed with them if they don't. The PVE Crowd? They could care less as long as the abilities work in a raid, and...noone raids as focus/rage anyways in any guild who has decent progression.

Finally I see a guy starting a topic on these forums who has a clue.

/signed and subscribed.

plz spread the word to sign this topic if you agree.

What you have to (sadly) realize is that Bioware Austin is not Bioware anymore.

The management has left and what's left is the Mythic team. They are responsible for cratering Warhammer with terrible pvp imbalances.

So really, there's not much surprise that things are how they are. Why did Ops get nerfed right off but rage spec is allowed to reign? Simple. Bioware was still Bioware then. Now it's Mythic.

The current philosophy of the developers can be summed up with one small buff.

Problem: thousands of people complain that there is far too much CC in this game.

Solution: Make resolve fill slower and give a class an AOE stun that can be cast on every player.

GG BW.

I don't seem to think anything. I read your posts and you were complaining that the class has become FOTM because they lowered the skill cap and now youre upset. Perhaps if that is not the point of your post you should remove all that because you lose alot of people right there with that argument.

Yes adrenals and all that stacking was a problem but it wasnt just that. before surge had no DR too, people were running around with 90% crit damage and they nerfed that too, and even then op/scoundrel was still op. Yes all classes could go for the same min max, but nothing was as broken as the op/scoundrel. CC and essentially own people in one combo. You yourself even said it. Currently rage is no where near what this was. Especially against people with a clue and any sort of non scrub gear. Just saying.

Ops/Scoundrel nerfs...well lets see why they were nerfed in the first place. The damage they were doing back then (about a year ago at this point) is on par to what rage is doing right now and slightly better (single target rather than AOE). Rage hits like a wet noodle outside of smash, but these ops/scoundrels would have some combo that would literally kill you. I'd get hit in full plate for 7-9k on the last shot of that combo in full pvp gear...not scrub tier 1 gear, but FULL BM...add to that the fact that your life totals was way less and that was maybe 3/4 of your life and you can see why they nerfed Ops/Scoundresl...now you might say why is rage ok and not nerfed then? Honestly I don't know but I will point out that generally against anyone who is even remotely geared you will be lucky to break a 7k smash, they are generally high 4k-mid 6k depending on all the debuffs/taunts on you and your opponents gear...you only really get these obscene numbers reliably against fresh 50s. Add all the pvp gear progression they added and its not as bad as everyone makes it.

while I enjoyed reading your recounting of the history of the nerfs, I'd like to emphasize one of the things that the op is harping on about the current state of the game, as I've just come out of a vstar where I was literally and figuratively getting smashed by a jugg with 18k (I'm at 20.x): the other melee are caught in the crossfire/arms race between smashers and bubble stuns. they BOTH screw over every 4m melee, and life isn't exactly a picnic for the assault VG either. as the op said, you just have to be close to other ppl in numerous situations. vstar is a smash box. the middle of hypergate is a smashbox. aldarran has a lot of open space, but it's mostly useless cuz you're either fighting on the platform or you're doing it wrong. so...smashbox. those smashers are catching multiple targets AND they're bursting bubbles all over the place. so it's stun smash smash stun stun. respawn. rinse. repeat.

anyway...as annoying as smash is (basically eating it from someone who isn't even targeting me), nothing in this game can rival the frustration factor of stun bubbles - everywhere. I'd rather go back to the buggy days of soa.

The current philosophy of the developers can be summed up with one small buff.

 

Problem: thousands of people complain that there is far too much CC in this game.

 

Solution: Make resolve fill slower and give a class an AOE stun that can be cast on every player.

 

GG BW.

Please don't say this out loud, it makes me cry.

anyway...as annoying as smash is (basically eating it from someone who isn't even targeting me), nothing in this game can rival the frustration factor of stun bubbles - everywhere. I'd rather go back to the buggy days of soa.

Or Ghraj following you back to the fleet and wiping you? Good times, lol.

Bubble stun is .. well, I fear the reason it's so prevalent is that most people can't play their sorc worth spit and this is all they have to fall back on rather than learning to play. I'm sure someone will say that it's the only thing that makes sorcs viable, to which I won't even reply, because that's just admitting the person in question needs a clue.