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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones


Monoth

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Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

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lol only thing killing regular warzones are the masses of bads.

 

The problem is, bads will never get better if their first (and almost certainly only) WZ they get rolled by fully aug'd WH premades on teamspeak. The under-50 WZs do little to prepare the 'bad' for the facestomping Biofail has decreed he or she must submit to for a week or more just to have BM gear. True, you learn from failure, but the amount and magnitude of fail that this game requires you to submit to in order to learn (and, as importantly, gear up) is a little too steep.

 

Sadly, the facestompers seem to be a majority of the surviving PvP population - many of them have 49 uber-twinks just so they can continue to not face actual competition. But it's ok, bad n00bs are what are causing the mass unsubs right?

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The problem is, bads will never get better if their first (and almost certainly only) WZ they get rolled by fully aug'd WH premades on teamspeak. The under-50 WZs do little to prepare the 'bad' for the facestomping Biofail has decreed he or she must submit to for a week or more just to have BM gear. True, you learn from failure, but the amount and magnitude of fail that this game requires you to submit to in order to learn (and, as importantly, gear up) is a little too steep.

 

Sadly, the facestompers seem to be a majority of the surviving PvP population - many of them have 49 uber-twinks just so they can continue to not face actual competition. But it's ok, bad n00bs are what are causing the mass unsubs right?

 

not true. Before this game I never did any pvp in any game. Then for some reason I decided to try PVP in this game. When I first started playing pvp with my trooper (lvl 20) back in January I was horrible. And I was playing against fully geared 50's back then. Every warzone I entered I started learning the objectives and my class. Over time I started realizing that I didnt have to do things solo. Started noticing who were good players and I'd follow them and attack who they attacked. Seeing what they were doing. But honestly what helped me the most was quitting at 1.2 to play Tera. In Tera you cant click your abilities you have to use keybinds. This made a huge difference when I came back to SW:TOR. But I went from around a 2/10 when I started doing warzones to now I believe I am 7/10. I wouldnt have gotten better tho if I played against people who were as bad as I was.

Most bads dont believe they are bad and hence dont try and learn to be better. they just ask for nerfs or complain about gear gaps or premades or hacks.

Edited by Ssfbistimg
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Comes with the territory. I always solo queue and finally have fully augmented warhero gear now for about a month. I started from full BM back in 1.2 so that should give you an idea how long it takes a casual player. I agree its dishearting to get stomped bad against a rated op group but it would be rotten to finally get geared out and start doing rated and be bored waiting for it to pop. Removing rated groups out sounds good, but it penalizes players who are trying to have some fun when they're waiting for a rated queue to pop. Yeah I know it seems hardly like it'd be fun to roflstomp recruits but it passes the time and thats why they're there.
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What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

 

We know. As the issue has not been adressed by BW the only option you can do as a paying customer is to vote with your wallet

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A couple solutions, none of which involve creating a separate queue which would just drive up queue times, and discourage teamwork and grouping, which are the hallmark of an MMO.

 

1. Make ALL WZs ranked. Then use the matchmaking system that is already in place to match teams by average ranking. Wouldn't be perfect, but it would help some. People would complain about others ruining their ranking, but people are never at a loss for reasons to complain.

 

2. Unsub. Hate to see ya go, but that would be better than an MMO that discourages player grouping.

 

3. Quit the WZ. There is no deserter debuff. I used to argue very strongly against people leaving WZs, calling them cowards etc. That was in February. Now? It's simple cost/benefit analysis. If the cost in personal frustration is higher than the benefit of 80 comms and 2k creds, bounce. The only word of caution I would add is that if you find yourself quitting all the time, it's not because "everyone else" sucks. But hey, no one has any obligation to give anyone else someone to farm.

 

4. As always, group up. Maybe you play at odd hours, your friends don't play, etc etc etc. You can find 3 people of comparable skill level to make the going a little bit easier. If you can't, if everyone else on your faction at the time you play is a scrub, see the warning for option 3.

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Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

 

I would suggest going to a RP server to PvP, but even there there are premades.

 

The reason why people choose RP Servers for PvP Guilds/Premades is because they know they'd get owned if they Premaded on a PvP Server, so they go to a RP Server because there aren't as much PvP Guilds there, so it's just easy pickings.

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I would suggest going to a RP server to PvP, but even there there are premades.

 

The reason why people choose RP Servers for PvP Guilds/Premades is because they know they'd get owned if they Premaded on a PvP Server, so they go to a RP Server because there aren't as much PvP Guilds there, so it's just easy pickings.

 

Right... cause us Rp'ers couldn't possible know how to PvP. *Sighs*

 

I'm a roleplayer and a PvP'er. I run in premades all the time as well, both ranked and unranked... and I win a good percent of my matches. I also fight (and sometimes get owned) by enemy premades. The quoted post above is false, thanks.

 

Also... same old argument. No one's stopping other people from grouping up, vent/voice is fairly cheap, and you don't even need voice if you've got some instincts, reflexes, and half a brain.

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Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

 

Sorry,

 

But to break it down mostly depends on a few factors:

 

- WZ Population: On Krath my first server, because it was so small. Premades DID kill our server. On Harbinger Premades exist but a majority of people PuG so its pretty good there.

 

- PuG Stupidity: The BIGGEST reason why people Premade isnt because they want to pwn people, its because they dont want to play with *******. If you havent been asked to join a premade then you might be one of them!

 

- Fun factor: Right now, too many PuGs are into DMing and not in objectives. Because hitting random **** is fun. Which I dont get because thats like hitting a training dummy really. But hey "whatever floats your boat!".

 

=============================================

 

The reality is Premades ARENT killing the game, you know whats killing the game, it's IDIOTS NOT DOING OBJECTIVES WZ REPEATEDLY. They're like sheep and not use their brain to work out where to go, the follow blindly to do random ****.

 

No communication even, its like talking to a brick wall when asking them to call incs. Maybe what we need is to make IDIOTS not do STUPID **** REPEATEDLY. If BW can figure this out, this game would be the best game ever!!!

 

The excuse of a premade/guild/whatever is drivel, if people are trying to do objectives and win then they can beat premades/guild/whatever (not easy but can be done).

 

Its when idiots have this fallacy of how OP a faction/class/player/premade that is whats making this game stupid.

 

NOTE: Being BAD and IMPROVING is fine. Being BAD and repeating it ad nauseum is not. You can start bad, I did, but you should be improving and trying to help your team rather than for yourself and stroke your epeen to top some charts you will never get.

Edited by Zhaker
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Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun....

If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

We know. As the issue has not been adressed by BW the only option you can do as a paying customer is to vote with your wallet

 

 

what will it change? i mean PUG only warzone option. Premades still will enter into WZ all together. don't say you don't know the situation when

you q at the same time with your friends for example, and the chance that you will get pop together is about 90%.

so they'll do the same things.

about PUG only warzone option again. for this it seems that Bioware needs to rethink mathtcmaking system.

it should form a group of people with roughly equal Valor rank, gear, etc. atm it is simple queue rule - who first joined the queue, then he'll be the first who got pop for wz.

in any case, developers don't read all of these topics in the forum, so ... we will not see any changes.

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Right... cause us Rp'ers couldn't possible know how to PvP. *Sighs*

 

I'm a roleplayer and a PvP'er. I run in premades all the time as well, both ranked and unranked... and I win a good percent of my matches. I also fight (and sometimes get owned) by enemy premades. The quoted post above is false, thanks.

 

Also... same old argument. No one's stopping other people from grouping up, vent/voice is fairly cheap, and you don't even need voice if you've got some instincts, reflexes, and half a brain.

 

First off, did I say RPers don't know how to PvP? No, Learn2read.

 

Second, what you said about getting owned by other premades proves my point even further: you decide to Premade on RP servers because you'd get totally trashed on a PvP Server, but on an RP server you'd get trashed less often, so thanks for that.

 

And you basically lost the entire argument when you mention you Premaded. No durr a Premader is gonna try defend themselves.

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- PuG Stupidity: The BIGGEST reason why people Premade isnt because they want to pwn people, its because they dont want to play with *******. If you havent been asked to join a premade then you might be one of them!

 

- Fun factor: Right now, too many PuGs are into DMing and not in objectives. Because hitting random **** is fun. Which I dont get because thats like hitting a training dummy really. But hey "whatever floats your boat!".

 

=============================================

 

The reality is Premades ARENT killing the game, you know whats killing the game, it's IDIOTS NOT DOING OBJECTIVES WZ REPEATEDLY. They're like sheep and not use their brain to work out where to go, the follow blindly to do random ****.

 

No communication even, its like talking to a brick wall when asking them to call incs. Maybe what we need is to make IDIOTS not do STUPID **** REPEATEDLY. If BW can figure this out, this game would be the best game ever!!!

 

The excuse of a premade/guild/whatever is drivel, if people are trying to do objectives and win then they can beat premades/guild/whatever (not easy but can be done).

 

Its when idiots have this fallacy of how OP a faction/class/player/premade that is whats making this game stupid.

 

NOTE: Being BAD and IMPROVING is fine. Being BAD and repeating it ad nauseum is not. You can start bad, I did, but you should be improving and trying to help your team rather than for yourself and stroke your epeen to top some charts you will never get.

This and people seeing that they are up against a premade and foretelling doom. Yes they may have voice chat clients and yes they play together all the time. But how long does it take to type "INC EAST" or to type a game plan at the beginning of a match? There are only four war zones and neither one requires a complicated strategy. It only requires players to work together to win. When they don't listen to plans, don't call incs, or run off to la la land trying to shoot anything that moves instead of guarding a turret.

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i so agree with a few of you guys here i have tryed the guild thing and group stuff just not for me so iam a pug for now . as iam new to mmo's (this is my first one )i love pvping but i do think the premades make it very hard at time for ppl like myself to really enjoy the match it not like i have to win every match just don't like it when its unfair and its a whitewash when ppl make premade with like heaps of healers and or side have none. permade should be for ranked only and normal pvp should be solo /duo que only and setup like the group finder with a good mix of players , in game chat in pvp would be nice also. or if they let premade do normal make it so its balnced and it in game chat and premade go up againt other premades not pug groups. just makes it fair on every one and more ppl will most likly que for pvp if they knew there was a chance at wining and have same fun it just no fun haveing your *** handed to you by a bunch of ppl who all know each other and all can play well together this is a game ppl play to have fun if there not haveing fun there not going to play and pvp will just get smaller and smaller in numbers .

 

mrmjrat, mjrat, rprat, mr'rat, phoebemarre, robpual, lillymae. just a few of my toons lol

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First off, did I say RPers don't know how to PvP? No, Learn2read.

 

Second, what you said about getting owned by other premades proves my point even further: you decide to Premade on RP servers because you'd get totally trashed on a PvP Server, but on an RP server you'd get trashed less often, so thanks for that.

 

And you basically lost the entire argument when you mention you Premaded. No durr a Premader is gonna try defend themselves.

 

pvp servers have horrible warzone players. seriously when are people going to get it through their thick skulls. being on a pvp server doesn't make you good at warzones. It means you like owpvp plain and simple. thats all. Their are plenty of great warzone pvp'ers who dont like the ganking in owpvp. Please stop making yourself look like an idiot by saying pve/rp servers would get owned on pvp servers in warzones. I was on Wound In The Force (a pvp server at launch) The warzones there were filled with horrible players. I was then asked by my friend to go to Juyo (a pve server) as thats where his guild was placed. Juyo had way better warzone players from top to bottom.

Edited by Ssfbistimg
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If the war heroes don't like q'ing with the 'bads' why don't we see the WH population arguing for tiered queues by valor? I believe that there is something to be said for those that choose to face roll pugs. I was in vent today on my imp while my guildees on the pub side were doing premades and heard them all complain that is was boring face rolling the pugs, but they were more interested in finishing their dailies to get more WH gear to min/max or pass to their alts.

 

If the queues were tiered and the valor awarded was miniscule for those that aren't objective oriented, then they obviously won't be moving to the next tier very quickly, at least until they L2P. Make the objectives where valor points come from to force the bads into learning the WZ goals.

 

I've heard the L2P argument, but it's a little difficult to L2P when you are sporting less than 15k HP in recruit when you get rolled in less than 3 seconds. Not everyone has a push/knock back or a emergency stealth ability in their pocket to avoid the WHs who are critting 5k+ every few milli-seconds. What can you really learn by being taken down that fast? Avoid a sent/maur? they find you, it's not like you can hide and avoid contact. If it's an aoe, that's easy to avoid, run out of the circle, unless you are stunned/rooted. I think aoe's should apply friendly fire on team mates, even it is reduced, but that's just MHO, because using live ordinance isn't freindly to the freindlies.

Edited by iSoldat
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3. Quit the WZ. There is no deserter debuff. I used to argue very strongly against people leaving WZs, calling them cowards etc. That was in February. Now? It's simple cost/benefit analysis. If the cost in personal frustration is higher than the benefit of 80 comms and 2k creds, bounce.

 

Heh, 80 you say? I know what you mean, though it takes an obscenely miserable warzone to make me quit a WZ. I've been averaging 50 per match. Today we had healers and I've been averaging 70-80. Didn't see how many I got for today's single win, I was too shocked.

 

And here's the result of the most fun warzone I've ever had in SWTOR. It went back and forth, I literally didn't know who would win until the WZ ended. I was constantly using the ops chat for updates, calling inc, and to tell everyone to leave the now-empty node that we just cleared and get over to the other one.

 

Honestly, the problem is not pre-mades. The problem is matchmaking. Automated matchmaking is never perfect, but damn it there are all kinds statistics that can be measured and it can be done pretty well instead of just rolling the dice. Let's just choose one at random, say, GEAR LEVEL. Or MAXIMUM HEALTH. Or PRIMARY STAT. What a concept.

 

Since hitting 50 I've had one or perhaps two really close matches. Out of 28 (21 loss, 7 win). Which is a serious problem, because those are the matches that are really fun, the ones that make competitive games worth playing - and even worth spectating.

Edited by Rigsta
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