I'd say read the whole thing or don't bother posting, but most of you won't bother and your still going to post - so have at it.

Now before you post some 'up in arms' rage comment about how that would defeat the purpose of the cash shop - hear me out.

I'm going to use Heroes Of Newerth cash shop for this example, but if you'd like a different cash shop example of other games i've played, i'd be happy to use that instead.

OKAY, SO, The price of an armor SET in the Cartel Shop, appears to be around 1000-1500 cartel coins (see here for more info/screenies showing pricing).

In Heroes of Newerth a 'hero alternate avatar' ist he most preferred items to buy on the cash shop (much alike what armor/clothing will be in this game). Now you can buy 300 'gold coins to pay the pricetag of '300 gold' for the avatar. Or you can pay the price tag of say... (varies) but around 1000 silver for the same avatar.

Lets make the difference clear here, you can pay... lets say... a few dollars, for some gold coins, that buy the desired avatar you want, OR you can use silver coins to buy the exact same thing. The difference with using silver coins is how the currency is acquired. Instead of it being a quick one time fee and its yours, you can still work for the avatar and get it for free. The way this is done is every HoN match you're awarded a certain about of silver coins, which you can increase the 'revenue' your recieving by social activities such as - playing grouped with a friend or ffriends, playing consecutive matches and winning etc. Now what this would do is increase the coins you recieved but only slightly, but it was a reward for being more 'social' and interactive with the game and its community.

http://imageshack.us/a/img267/9365/screenshot2012102317263.jpg

If you see where i'm going with this, feel free to skim this part, but let's say we did the same with SW:ToR. So you've got .. well.. i'll use the known armor (see above screenshot link) thats coming in the Cartel Shop as an example. The price is 1200 coins. Let's say we added a third currency on top of this (before you go 'THATS TO MANY CURRENCYS' look how many currencys we have for commendations and their associated vendors).

To consolidate the point i'm about to make a bit more, here's what would need to be done :

-Let's say this 3rd currency was called "Galactic Currency"

-So if the CCoin price for an item is 1200... make the Galactic Currency price 5000. Every PVP match you win you recieve .. lets say 60-70-80 Galactic$ and if you lose you get... well half that or so.

-If you queue with friends, it gives you a currency 'bonus' for every match you play (example: for every consecutive match won +10 extra coins to match prize money)

-Level 50 Space missions could be made to give a miniscule amount of this 'Galactic Currency', so could the various weekly missions to do ingame.

-Some other 'solo player' activities could be considered so that it best covers the entire community (i only say this because of the whinge thread about hk-51)

So instead of being presented with the option of "spend money or miss out" you can be presented with "spend money/or don't/but if you keep playing/participating in the community you will eventually get something".

I just feel like... What's the point in raiding for "cool gear" when there's better looking gear in the cash shop. It's not fun to raid JUST for the mod armorings and enhancements... thats basically spending 2 hours to change a mathematical representation of your characters strength. At least when you change the actual clothing you can enjoy the new aesthetics. At least if this system were adapted, no matter what you could ALWAYS be working towards something, regardless of whether you have money to spend on the cash shop or not. If you do, then these 'secondary' premium currency would serve to give you a bonus item every now and then.

I'm not a naysayer, nor am i saying i'll be angry/disappointed if they don't do something like this, but I feel that what makes this business model so solid is that it relies on both the typical gamers notion of an 'earnt' reward, aswell as the 'impulse buy' effect that is illicited in people who see others with items that they don't have, which of course makes them want it. It'd give people a reason to pay for a PVP Pass, aswell as a space mission Pass. There are many benefits to this, but again I suppose thats all my own opinion.

Tell me what you guys think!

Sorry for typing so much! (I like to think my Ideas are pretty good, condensation of the expression of those ideas needs work!).. XD

I think they have already determined that Cartel Coins will not be available through in-game play. I take this to also include currency otherwise identical to Cartel Coins.

If you subscribe, you will get a monthly stipend in any case – so essentially, subscribed players will be able to get stuff from the Cartel shop in exchange for time played.

All of which is to say that BioWare has thought this out, and decided to do it this way. Until people have actually played it long enough to generate a useful sample of metrics, that is unlikely to change.

Interesting idea with regards to the 3rd currency and completely agree that it would be nice to be able to have access to the new armour sets (which look awesome).

But it would take some thought to get to it since the new armour sets are lvl 31 sets so would need to have a way for leveling people to get the 'new currency' (maybe the daily GF quest gives you some and the daily pvp quest so that pvpers and pve-ers gain access but then also need to think of something for loners that don't want to have to group up)

This all depends though on how many cartel coins subscribers get per month and what the conversion rate is between 'real money' and cartel coins so see what the armour sets are 'worth'.

I think they have already determined that Cartel Coins will not be available through in-game play. I take this to also include currency otherwise identical to Cartel Coins.

 

If you subscribe, you will get a monthly stipend in any case – so essentially, subscribed players will be able to get stuff from the Cartel shop in exchange for time played.

 

All of which is to say that BioWare has thought this out, and decided to do it this way. Until people have actually played it long enough to generate a useful sample of metrics, that is unlikely to change.

You clearly didn't read the title OR my post properly. I'm not saying Cartel Coins should be earnable. I'm saying that there should be a third currency that equates to much less than the value of a cartel coin. There's a distinct difference in the purpose of that verses making CCoins earnable. My suggested "Galactic Currency" would be a long term goal currency, whereas CCoins are an instant gratification currency. God I hate it when the first response to a topic is a stupid one.

-- Also Uluain if you read the entire post, you'd know that I already stated that I know we get a monthly allowance of CCoins.

It's about rewarding players for participating in the features that Bioware wants to charge money to give passes for. They're not going to reward you cartel coins for completing an OP when you already paid CCoins to get a pass FOR that OP - HOWEVER rewarding the player with a third currency that has a soul intended use of being spent on a piece of gear EVENTUALLY (weeks/months) might just work?

I don't think I was clear enough in saying that earning this third currency would take a LONG time. Like.. Let's say a month of pvping every day consistently would earn you... enough for MAYBE 1 armor set (and thats if you were taking advantage of things such as a 'friend grouping bonus' or 'consecutive winstreak bonus' etc etc.) Plenty of things likened to this can be thought of easily.

I think they have already determined that Cartel Coins will not be available through in-game play. I take this to also include currency otherwise identical to Cartel Coins.

 

If you subscribe, you will get a monthly stipend in any case – so essentially, subscribed players will be able to get stuff from the Cartel shop in exchange for time played.

 

All of which is to say that BioWare has thought this out, and decided to do it this way. Until people have actually played it long enough to generate a useful sample of metrics, that is unlikely to change.

You are 100% correct. Unfortunately everyone has their own solution to a non existent problem and are convinced that if Bioware doesn't heed their advice it will all end in doom.

You are 100% correct. Unfortunately everyone has their own solution to a non existent problem and are convinced that if Bioware doesn't heed their advice it will all end in doom.

Damn, the replies are making it more and more evident that people aren't bothering to read the whole thing (which makes me wonder why you feel compelled to comment) I stated in my OP, that I would not be bothered by/nor disappointed if they didn't do this?

Damn, the replies are making it more and more evident that people aren't bothering to read the whole thing (which makes me wonder why you feel compelled to comment) I stated in my OP, that I would not be bothered by/nor disappointed if they didn't do this?

I don't need to read a thread that is basically asking them to alter their model they've decided to use. Additionally it would be completely impossible to do any of what you suggested prior to the launch of F2P/1.5. You basically just fleshed out the STO premise.

You know there was a position from Bioware that would have given you complete control over the make up of the monetization of F2P back in the summer. I see a lot of people on here that clearly should have applied. After seeing the cartel shop and realizing that there are things I want in there I can foresee them doing extremely well with this model. But by all means lets ask them to change it now based on a forum post. If you think that's realistic, I don't know what to say. At least put it in the suggestion box where all good threads go to die.

It's about rewarding players for participating in the features that Bioware wants to charge money to give passes for. They're not going to reward you cartel coins for completing an OP when you already paid CCoins to get a pass FOR that OP - HOWEVER rewarding the player with a third currency that has a soul intended use of being spent on a piece of gear EVENTUALLY.

Sorry, completely disagree. First of all, it would make no sense from BW's perspective to put a method into the game to earn what they are selling (and touting) as "rare" stuff on the market in these packs. If you look at the armor sets and other items that are just a direct purchase, without the packs, then again, there's less incentive for players to purchase these things through coins when they can just wait and eventually earn it in-game. All of this stuff can be re-sold on the market or through trades, so you can spend credits if you want to grind out a bunch of credits and buy it off someone. There will always be a certain amount of people who think they should basically be able to get every item in the game if they play long enough, but that's just not the case and not the way it should be.

5000 credits for 1 CC?

$15/month = 500 cc.

Doing the Belsavis, Illum and BH dailies gives you 400k.

So 400x30= 12 Million.

12 million / 500 = 24k.

So somewhere around 24k/CC is more likely than somewhere around 5k/CC.

Sorry, completely disagree. First of all, it would make no sense from BW's perspective to put a method into the game to earn what they are selling (and touting) as "rare" stuff on the market in these packs. If you look at the armor sets and other items that are just a direct purchase, without the packs, then again, there's less incentive for players to purchase these things through coins when they can just wait and eventually earn it in-game. All of this stuff can be re-sold on the market or through trades, so you can spend credits if you want to grind out a bunch of credits and buy it off someone. There will always be a certain amount of people who think they should basically be able to get every item in the game if they play long enough, but that's just not the case and not the way it should be.

It would take a large amount of time to earn an item.. This is my point... you guy's seem to think that you could go earn the currency i'm talking about in like a day/ or a week/or a month like you would other types of gear (PvE/PvP gear) BUT I'M NOT *********** SAYING THAT. You're all acting like i'm suggesting that Cash Shop currency should be 'farmable'.

It'd be more like background noise. Your drive to play would not be for this currency, its just a perk you'd recieve for actually PLAYING the game, and after a LONG PERIOD OF TIME, you would have earned enough coins for one item... lets say... JUST a robe, of a certain armor set. Or JUST THE HEADPIECE. And so on.

So, when people post threads like this, do they really believe that they came up with some ingenious plan that the people that get paid to do these things had not thought of or considered?

The idea totally bucks against what they are trying to do.

5000 credits for 1 CC?

 

I don't think that BW would go for that. Let me explain why:

 

Rocket Boost is 2 Million credits. It is 320 CC on the PTS (prices may change).

 

Therefore 2,000,000/320 = the credit:CC ratio.

This ratio is 6250.

 

Therefore They would charge at the very minimum 6250. I suspect that they'd charge more than that but 5k is far too low.

And I don't know where you got 5000 credits for 1 Cartel coin, but thats not what I was saying whatsoever. Again - another person responding without reading the OP - Which is what makes posting on these forums absolutely pointless. Just a bunch of keyboard intellectuals trying to prove themselves without realising the place they're trying to do that is a Star Wars game forum.

My apologies for offending you all by sharing an idea - (that other online gaming companies with cash shops currently use). TERRIBLE OF ME.

Security key app makes it too much effort to log on to forums anyway, sooooo as i said in another thread i posted, BYE BYE FORUMS.

I agree with the OP. There needs to be a way.

My suggestion would be like 10 or 15 or even 20/25 daily comms can be exchanged for each cartel coin. I prefer the 10 to 1 ratio but i could see some people thinking it's not enough

I agree with the OP. There needs to be a way.

 

My suggestion would be like 10 or 15 or even 20/25 daily comms can be exchanged for each cartel coin. I prefer the 10 to 1 ratio but i could see some people thinking it's not enough

Hahaha, you've already made the first mistake that everyone makes on the SW:ToR forums.

It doesn't matter what I've said, you never, NEVER, agree with the OP.

5000 credits for 1 CC?

 

$15/month = 500 cc.

Doing the Belsavis, Illum and BH dailies gives you 400k.

So 400x30= 12 Million.

12 million / 500 = 24k.

 

So somewhere around 24k/CC is more likely than somewhere around 5k/CC.

Clearly you don't understand. I named the hypothetical third currency Galactic Currency. What I was actually saying (which your maths has nothing to do with) is that if the price of an armor set were 1200 cartel coins, the galactic currency's price would be significantly higher then that. And due to the fact that the currency would take a significantly long time to earn, you'd have no advantage in using Galactic Currency over Cartel Coins. As Stated in OP (Which I already know you didn't read properly) Galactic Currency would serve a long term purpose. If you were someone who intended on NEVER EVER spending money on the cash shop - that wouldn't matter in its entirety, because 6 months down the track you might have enough GC for say... 1 armor set?

If you cant grasp that cartel coins don't work like this in any way whatsoever, then I'm done trying to explain it. It means that:

let's pretend i want the Chiss military armor set for 1200 CC coins OR 5000 Galactic Coins

I COULD:

BUY 1200 CC COINS INSTANTLY --> INSTANTLY PURCHASE CHISS ARMOR

OR

SPEND MONTHS PVPING/FPS/OPS/ETC for a microscopic monetary rewards (1-2-3 coins per weekly mission completion/ops completion/world bosses etc etc) called "Galactic Currency" WHICH AFTER MONTHS OF SAVING, I COULD THEN SPEND ON THAT SAME CHISS MILITARY SET.

Is it that *********** hard to understand?

So, when people post threads like this, do they really believe that they came up with some ingenious plan that the people that get paid to do these things had not thought of or considered?

 

The idea totally bucks against what they are trying to do.

Never mind logic here. Clearly the OP isn't interested in that and he's aggressively defending that we should ignore the whole premise of his post. I bet the SWG Trading Card metrics (which of course Lucas Arts has to go on) more than confirm that Star Wars fans will aggressively buy anything and it will be profitable.

Besides... it is completely possible that you can have any of these rare and awesome items as soon as FTP launches by just buying them off the GTN from other players. Oh and you also get credits monthly in the store. Sounds like a reasonable model to me.

Talking about credit exchange rates is stupid because the idea is to GENERATE REAL MONEY for Bioware. Someone bought that item that you can now get on the GTN. That's Bioware making money and you getting what you want.

Never mind logic here. Clearly the OP isn't interested in that and he's aggressively defending that we should ignore the whole premise of his post. I bet the SWG Trading Card metrics (which of course Lucas Arts has to go on) more than confirm that Star Wars fans will aggressively buy anything and it will be profitable.

 

Besides... it is completely possible that you can have any of these rare and awesome items as soon as FTP launches by just buying them off the GTN from other players. Oh and you also get credits monthly in the store. Sounds like a reasonable model to me.

 

Talking about credit exchange rates is stupid because the idea is to GENERATE REAL MONEY for Bioware. Someone bought that item that you can now get on the GTN. That's Bioware making money and you getting what you want.

It would generate real money for Bioware.

Completetion of things like ops/warzones/space missions would give this hypothetical currency.

Bioware is selling passes to these above things ^ (except worldbosses i guess?), so it would give insentive for F2P players to buy weekly passes, whilst not having to OVER indulge at once and buy armor aswell.

As for aggressively defending, I think i'm allowed to do so? I don't see a way for you to stop me defending my point - okay great i'll defend it as much as I like ^^.

Clearly you don't understand. I named the hypothetical third currency Galactic Currency. What I was actually saying (which your maths has nothing to do with) is that if the price of an armor set were 1200 cartel coins, the galactic currency's price would be significantly higher then that. And due to the fact that the currency would take a significantly long time to earn, you'd have no advantage in using Galactic Currency over Cartel Coins. As Stated in OP (Which I already know you didn't read properly) Galactic Currency would serve a long term purpose. If you were someone who intended on NEVER EVER spending money on the cash shop - that wouldn't matter in its entirety, because 6 months down the track you might have enough GC for say... 1 armor set?

 

If you cant grasp that cartel coins don't work like this in any way whatsoever, then I'm done trying to explain it. It means that:

 

let's pretend i want the Chiss military armor set for 1200 CC coins OR 5000 Galactic Coins

 

I COULD:

 

BUY 1200 CC COINS INSTANTLY --> INSTANTLY PURCHASE CHISS ARMOR

 

OR

 

SPEND MONTHS PVPING/FPS/OPS/ETC for a microscopic monetary rewards (1-2-3 coins per weekly mission completion/ops completion/world bosses etc etc) called "Galactic Currency" WHICH AFTER MONTHS OF SAVING, I COULD THEN SPEND ON THAT SAME CHISS MILITARY SET.

 

Is it that *********** hard to understand?

It's not that we don't understand, you don't understand why they are doing this. If you want the item use your saved points, or use your wallet. Of course they hope that by giving you a few points you'll be willing to buy the ones you need and take advantage of the human desire for instant gratification.

Additionally you can already do this by buying these items from another player or use your monthly stipend. Bottom line is that your proposed method cuts into revenue and is completely against the grain of their intentions. I understand that everyone wants a way to get something 'essentially for nothing' and this thread clearly is a veiled attempt at that.

It would generate real money for Bioware.

 

Completetion of things like ops/warzones/space missions would give this hypothetical currency.

 

Bioware is selling passes to these above things ^ (except worldbosses i guess?), so it would give insentive for F2P players to buy weekly passes, whilst not having to OVER indulge at once and buy armor aswell.

 

As for aggressively defending, I think i'm allowed to do so? I don't see a way for you to stop me defending my point - okay great i'll defend it as much as I like ^^.

The incentive to do all of those things already exists in the game, that's a strawman argument. You do ops for the gear progression and the pleasure derived from the content. Same with PVP. Your own perception determines how much this is worth.

The cartel shop is independent of that. Those are tailored as impulse buys and are there to generate revenue. If you want items they have several mechanics to get those items. And the cartel coins monthly are EXACTLY what you are proposing simply by having and active account.

I make the joke all the time that I pay $15 per month for this forum and they even throw in a AAA MMO experience for free. Here you are paying $15 a month for a credit at the cartel shop AND they throw in a AAA MMO experience for free. Best deal around

What you are suggesting is a play over time to get whatever you want model and they already gave you one.

I guess it's pointless to debate this though. If you can't see the inherit logical flaw in your original argument and your strawman justification then you'll never be able to reason why this isn't going to be adopted.

Not a bad model if it was implemented, it mainly is for f2p players to get more goals to aim towards but is an incentive to not pay at all. I see that you have replied that it may push some players to pay for weekly passes for it, i think it will still convince a greater amount of people to avoid paying but still play for longer.

The idea of replacing the current subber's monthly CC for this model seems like a punishment. I think dealing with trolls and the negative/bitter leavers is hard enough, I like my monthly bonus. This sort of model would push me from subsriber to f2p with weekly passes.

I don't mind your idea but I think it would earn less money in the end.

Edit: OP. You're escalating too quickly. The other poster has some good points.

The incentive to do all of those things already exists in the game, that's a strawman argument. You do ops for the gear progression and the pleasure derived from the content. Same with PVP. Your own perception determines how much this is worth.

 

The cartel shop is independent of that. Those are tailored as impulse buys and are there to generate revenue. If you want items they have several mechanics to get those items. And the cartel coins monthly are EXACTLY what you are proposing simply by having and active account.

 

I make the joke all the time that I pay $15 per month for this forum and they even throw in a AAA MMO experience for free. Here you are paying $15 a month for a credit at the cartel shop AND they throw in a AAA MMO experience for free. Best deal around

 

What you are suggesting is a play over time to get whatever you want model and they already gave you one.

 

I guess it's pointless to debate this though. If you can't see the inherit logical flaw in your original argument and your strawman justification then you'll never be able to reason why this isn't going to be adopted.

a) Go read the two posts prior to this ^, especially the second one

b) You're looking at this from a subbers perspective, we do have plenty of incentive to PVP/PVE, we have unlimited access to it and its fun - BUT the only incentive F2P players have to spend money on a pass is so that they can do it more often in a week then 3 times, or in the case of OP's, just access to an area in general.

c) You're also saying that people would opt for GCoins over CCoins, when i've already stated to you numerous times that the idea behind GCoins is that they would take a VERY VERY LONG TIME TO ACCUMULATE. The length of time is what prays on peoples patience, and those with money can/would/will EASILY SUCCUMB to just buying cartel coins to go what they want. But they wouldn't HAVE TO. It's not so much 'cutting in to revenue' as providing an option for casual players who don't feel the need to spend money on fictional content unless they can get enjoyment out of it somehow. (So basically people who see the logic in buying a warzone pass, but would never buy gear off the cartel shop). If you think people like that don't exist, then you don't read the forums much.

By the way

 

Wouldn't given subbers a coin allowance per month cut in to revenue's as well?

?

If subscribers weren't given cartel coins, the loss i revenue of instant unsubsribes would be worst off. It's spitting in the face of those who decided to stick with it.

If subscribers weren't given cartel coins, the loss i revenue of instant unsubsribes would be worst off. It's spitting in the face of those who decided to stick with it.

Read the line above it, I'm not suggesting they do that. I'm saying that - if we recieve coins, by tim's defintion, thats revenue breaking aswell. According to him Bioware will never give us something that they can sell to us instead. But here they are giving us coins that they can indeed sell to us aswell.

The point you quoted was more of a rhetorical question though, sorry for not making that clearer.

If subscribers weren't given cartel coins, the loss i revenue of instant unsubsribes would be worst off. It's spitting in the face of those who decided to stick with it.

It's not just that, it's another incentive to get you to play, subscribe, and ultimately purchase additional coins. It's brilliant actually.

My wife is a fine example of how we can value 'savings' and justify a purchase to ourselves. Last week she bought a blender for $90. Now to me there is no reason to spend that much on a blender ever. She justified it in her own head because the price tag said originally $160 on sale for $90 so she immediately sees that as being a 'smart' shopper and saving $60 on an item she wants anyway.

Cartel coins are the same. Lets say you have (made up numbers) 1000 when F2P launches and the item you really want is 1800. You can wait the months it will take to acquire those points or if you really want the item you'll justify that you already have credit towards it so why not just buy the rest for a discount.

They know our human nature all too well. This model is pure gold.