When did cool looking gear ever come from OPs or PVP? Weren't you just saying their was only one thing that classes wore before the CM came along?

 

The fact is, there's nothing wrong with letting cool looking gear come from places other than the CM.

The Agent gear from Tionese to Rakata was awesome looking and I wish was adaptive.

The Agent gear from Tionese to Rakata was awesome looking and I wish was adaptive.

Yeah, I'll agree with that. I still use the Rakata on Ensign Temple. But that belt, ugh.

Except your idea would restrict my access to it. I don't do space combat, and can't dedicate the time to group content and PVP to get it that way. If I have the opportunity to get the odd, cool looking speeder from the market, who is it harming?

Well generally, the people, who actually had to work to get it. And i use the word loosely. It devalues their efforst and their time spent . Makes it pointless. Makes them angry. Makes them, quit. Regular MMOs, at end game, are carrots on sticks. No carrot- no sub.

Except your idea would restrict my access to it. I don't do space combat, and can't dedicate the time to group content and PVP to get it that way. If I have the opportunity to get the odd, cool looking speeder from the market, who is it harming?

Please don't get me wrong. I agree with you. You do have the right to that.

But the thing is.. I like to earn my rewards. It's boring to just buy them from the CM or GTN. I wanna go out and do stuff. The Seeker droid/Macrobinoculars where AWESOME in my opinion. The game needs more stuff like this. But it's drowned out in a sea of CM stuff.

Careful where you trough words, like "fact", around . Opinion was the word, you were looking for. And as far as facts go, most want to get cool items as rewards, for participation with specific activities. Its what the recent PvP rancor fiasco was about. Generally when something awesome comes back reskinned on the GTN, that people have grinded for, they rage. Understandable.

Yes yes, you caution me against using 'fact' in my post and here you are doing the same thing. You speak for yourself and no one else. Same as me.

":Waah I have no life so I should be able to get the fancy gear, not those people with money!"

Holy crap what is it with people in MMOs and thinking that spending weeks of their life grinding for gear to make a good look is fun? No thank you, I'd much rather gamble packs than having to grind some 16man nightmare mode operation to try and get Revan's mask, which has less than a .0001% chance of dropping and everyone needs on.

I'm sorry that you dislike letting people have fun with how they look.

Also, I don't think 'most' people want to 'earn' special things through spending hours of their life. It's why MMOs are more and more moving towards letting people get the looks and items they want through methods other than poopsocking 40man Naxxarus.

Why can't you have fun with a game by having fun playing it, instead of by being able to lord over 'plebians' with your special gear you earned by playing for hundreds of hours? What is it about multiplayer games that people need to have power trips and the opportunity to show themselves as 'better' than each other?

Yeah, I'll agree with that. I still use the Rakata on Ensign Temple. But that belt, ugh.

I just want the chest, hood down version. My Sniper has it and several of my companions across my empire 55's have it.

That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read on a gaming forum.

good god that is the worst insult you can ever give someone!!!

Please don't get me wrong. I agree with you. You do have the right to that.

 

But the thing is.. I like to earn my rewards. It's boring to just buy them from the CM or GTN. I wanna go out and do stuff. The Seeker droid/Macrobinoculars where AWESOME in my opinion. The game needs more stuff like this. But it's drowned out in a sea of CM stuff.

But see - it's all cosmetic. It's not a reward in my opinion, just a fun optional extra. I play this game for the fun story lines, not to earn special rewards. The reward for me is the enjoyment I have running through the stories.

Some people feel strongly that having your gear reflect your progression/achievements in-game is important. They care about the "wow" factor (no pun intended) you would get in games like WoW from walking around decked out in a full set of the latest top-tier armor.

I don't personally share that opinion, but I'm not going to say they're "wrong" for caring about it, any more than I'm going to say someone is wrong for looking forward to player housing, or wrong for wishing there was more class stories coming. It's a video game, it's all about what you personally find enjoyable or unenjoyable.

In this game, they have allowed increased customization overall through the CM and they opened up a revenue stream which is keeping the game profitable and allowing new content to be released, and the tradeoff has been a drop in the uniqueness and variety of some of the grinded-for gear. The latest tiers of Operations and PVP gear have been straight recolors or "now with new shiny bits" re-skins.

(I would note that every Reputation faction has has new an interesting gear sets you can earn solely through in-game means, but for some people it is an important distinction that grinding rep isn't as challenging as grinding raids -again, different strokes for different folks.)

If that tradeoff they made is a deal-breaker for you, all I can say is I hope you find a game out there more to your liking. I personally find it hasn't affected my enjoyment of the game at all, and I actually like a lot of the armor sets on the CM (which I only ever buy for credits or with my monthly CC subscriber stipend).

Please don't get me wrong. I agree with you. You do have the right to that.

 

But the thing is.. I like to earn my rewards. It's boring to just buy them from the CM or GTN. I wanna go out and do stuff. The Seeker droid/Macrobinoculars where AWESOME in my opinion. The game needs more stuff like this. But it's drowned out in a sea of CM stuff.

lets see, the HK quest chain has to be run at least once to get him, the gree event sphere speeder you got to do the gree event and grind you A** off for (or get lucky with a rare drop from Xenoanalyst), same with the infected mounts of the rakghoul event, also there is that miner speeder from the kdy rep vendor, as well as class companions which you got to do the story for, also there is grinding for nightmare level pve gear and for ranked pvp gear which takes a lot to work for, and probably a few other things I am missing

If people had to do missions, form groups, earn credits, or otherwise just play the damn game just to get that super awesome mount that's on the cartel market.. they'd do it! But why should they now when they can just spend $5 and get it instantly? Where the hell is the fun in that?

 

"Yay! I finally got that speeder I've been wanting!.... now what do I do?"

To me, it's exactly the other way around. When I get a matching color crystal, dyed outfit, and speeder...what do I do? Go out and do stuff while looking awesome! I'm much more motivated to play the game with a character who looks the way I want. I don't want to wait until level 50 to get a purple color crystal; I don't do end-game, so that would mean I'd effectively never get one.

On the other hand: If the main motivation to do missions, etc. is to get those things, rather than for the fun of doing the mission itself...then what's really the point? I want to do quests because they're fun in themselves, not because they're the price of cosmetic customization.

The cartel market is effectively double-charging subscribers for stuff they should already have paid for.

Well...if they now have half the number of subscribers needed to keep the game viable, then logically they need twice the amount of money from them. They could either double subscription fees outright, or add on something that brings in significantly more money than it costs them.

But even if the game hadn't been in dire financial straits, the market has enhanced my enjoyment of it considerably. Like you said, cosmetics are a big driving force, and all those armors and mounts don't grow on trees.

I remember 'this' game before the CM came along. If you were a Sorc, you had 'one' type of look and screw you if you wanted to look different. Same thing with BH and every other basic class.

 

And it's cool and all that you think you should be able to get all kinds of extra stuff for $15 a month. It's a laughable opinion, but hey, it's yours, right? Go on with your bad self.

 

See, I'm laughing because I get 'everything' I want from the CM via the GTN for credits. So when people rage about it, I just laugh.

Two technically. one pvp set, one pve. Back then, set bonuses weren't tied to armorings so everyone needed to wear the original gear.

Two technically. one pvp set, one pve. Back then, set bonuses weren't tied to armorings so everyone needed to wear the original gear.

I was much relieved when 1.2 opened the door to getting the amoring-based set bonus. It meant my sage was able to not look like fool with gigantic shoulder-pads and oven-mitt gloves.

Duran'del here:

You can get everything in the CM by playing the game. Its called GTN.

lets see, the HK quest chain has to be run at least once to get him, the gree event sphere speeder you got to do the gree event and grind you A** off for (or get lucky with a rare drop from Xenoanalyst), same with the infected mounts of the rakghoul event, also there is that miner speeder from the kdy rep vendor, as well as class companions which you got to do the story for, also there is grinding for nightmare level pve gear and for ranked pvp gear which takes a lot to work for, and probably a few other things I am missing

Exactly!

When Oricon first came out I grinded that place every single day on multiple toons so I could earn enough rep to get the black/red dye module schematic. That was my driving force behind doing those dailies besides collecting basic comms and earning credits, of course.

But the thing is that stuff goes away. You get it and then you're left wanting to play more. Where as there is a constant stream of freely obtainable stuff on the CM monthly. It's drowned out. And not only that, but the stuff you DO earn in game has better and nicer versions available on the CM. If even a tiny handful of the stuff on the CM was put into mission rewards for say beating a world boss or something, that would be awesome.

Also, to the people who are saying that the CM is the game's lifeline. I know, I've addressed that in multiple posts in this thread. But you also need to consider how the CM produces revenue. The CM's main source of income is cartel packs. You don't know what you're going to get from them. So if they took 1 single item from a pack and put into the game as a reward for doing some content, how would you measure the impact that has on revenue? People don't buy CM stuff directly. They buy packs. 1 pack or 30 packs. One item is not going to make a difference unless its like the only likeable item that is available from the pack.

Yes yes, you caution me against using 'fact' in my post and here you are doing the same thing. You speak for yourself and no one else. Same as me.

I speak, from exp., people's post and what ive seen of these very threads lots of times. Why would i speak for myself, on a matter i care nothing about, you silly man. Ive never done high-end PvP , HM PVE and many other similar activities , so potential rewards would never benefit me.

However that doesn't not change the fact that, MMO gamers in general like to earn stuff by playing the game. They need reason to do that high level content, or any content for that matter. Participating in something and being good in something, should be rewarded with unique exclusive stuff. People dont like P2W. And i agree with that assessment.

MY OPINION HERE:In general adding more rewards for varying activities, even ones i don't participate in, is better, than keeping those behind a pay wall. (Be that a credit, or coin one.) It keeps people playing, the actual game.

Well, keep laughing Chuckles, but most would prefer obtaining items organically. You know by playing, rather than, wasting time in front of the GTN.

 

And while i have given you, that all manner of side activities, are "playing the game" Playing the Auction House, is something else entirely. Probably the only activity, that has ever really bored me in MMOs, all kinds of grinding included.

Grinding is a part of MMOs and RPGs in general. Deal with it.

Grinding is a part of MMOs and RPGs in general. Deal with it.

Deal with what. The GTN bothers me, especially after the CM released. Grinding doesn't. Perhaps, i misspelled.

Grinding is a part of MMOs and RPGs in general. Deal with it.

That's the problem. Freely obtained stuff isn't grinding. It's instant gratification. This is at the expense of actual gameplay.

That's the problem. Freely obtained stuff isn't grinding. It's instant gratification. This is at the expense of actual gameplay.

Don't waste your time.

Challenge, risk and reward are no longer things important to a game.... at least till Bioware changes their mind and adds it, then it will be a great thing.

You know, just like "sandbox" features which were useless and a waste of money earlier this week, but are now the greatest thing since sliced Ewok since Bioware announced the addition of more sandbox features.

The point of playing a game is to have fun. What constitutes as fun is different for every person. I have fun in games that offer me various options to acquiring any particular item:

1) "normal" gameplay

2) in game credits through an Auction House, Vendors, and Players (but it should never be just one of those options).

3) a cash shop

I work for a living so I can support my family, keep a roof over my head, and enjoy playing games. I should never feel like I have to work to get anything in a game. The content I play in a game is content that I find fun playing - not because there is some nifty reward at the end. I constantly re-run repeatable content in this game not because of the rewards at the end (which are often useless to me at that point, even on the first run), but because that content gives me pleasure.

Ultimately, gamers need to face the facts. The gaming industry is Big Business. Even the indie scene, for all the innocent youth and high moral ideals just boils down to trying to make money with games. The gaming industry is still relatively young - only about 30-odd years old at this point, so it still has a lot to learn from industries that have been around for much longer - like the retail industry. Thus far, it has shown signs of growing and maturing, and thusly, the even younger MMO genre has as well.

The Age of the Catasser is over. The Era of the Poopsocker has ended. The days of the PKer are past. This is the 21st Century of gaming and the 21st Century of the MMO genre. There will always be a place for the niche - Eve bears that out. We have been witness to a paradigm shift in the business model of the MMO. Those that refuse to accept the change will be left behind to find a new hobby to enjoy. Those that embrace it will help the genre grow and mature further. The Subscription based model is not going away completely. Also with that, people either don't know, or conveniently forget that the Free to Play model has been around just as long (if not longer) than the sub-based model. There are games that launched F2P in the late 90's that are still going strong today.

It is only because of the efforts of companies like Sony, Blizzard, and Origin Systems that the gaming community became convinced that you needed a subscription in order to produce an enjoyable MMO. That has never been the case, and we are now seeing the majority of the gaming community realizing that fact. Credit has to go to ArenaNet with the original Guild Wars for bucking the trend, and opening the eyes of gamers to the thriving Free to Play market. As a community, we are still not there yet - as evidenced by opinions and threads similar to this across all gaming outlets, but as I said, the industry is maturing and we are learning along with it. The hybrid Freemium model is the future of the genre. It offers the best of both worlds when done correctly. Sure, there will be mis-steps along the way, but that is all part of the learning process. Again, gamers have a choice. Either embrace the maturity and the future of the industry and help it grow in the correct direction or allow it to pass them by, continue living in the past, and ultimately go the way of the Dodo.

Freely obtained stuff isn't grinding. It's instant gratification. This is at the expense of actual gameplay.

Not at all. It isn't the instant gratification of, y'know, saving the senator, or destroying the super-weapon or whatever.

I mean...Luke's motivation to confront Vader wasn't to get a new belt.

That's the problem. Freely obtained stuff isn't grinding. It's instant gratification. This is at the expense of actual gameplay.

Cosmetics can be churned out way faster than actual gameplay. Plus the people who make the mounts aren't the same people who make the warzones and operations.

If you consider cosmetics themselves to be gameplay, its about a year and a half late to be bringing up that objection. When the CM was first brought up it was made clear that the CM would sell cosmetics, and subscribers would keep(and hopefully gain more of) content. There wasn't substantial complaint at the time(people were rather more concerned about how f2p would affect things like lag), so that's how things went ahead. As long as its cosmetics being sold on the CM, Bioware's kept true to the stance they've had on it since it was announced.